History was made last Tuesday night at City Hall when over 1,000 people gathered there, packing the Council Chambers, the rotunda and all the community rooms. Approximately 200 people from the crowd spoke at the meeting. They were old and young, male and female, recent immigrants and those here for decades. The topic was the naming of a business district
As a son of immigrant Italian parents, I can appreciate the longing for names that recognize a culture from another country. I am not immersed in Vietnamese-American politics nor have I experienced the fall of my homeland. However, one can empathize with the emotion and intellect that was displayed at the meeting.
Freedom of speech was heard loud and clear. Speakers shared their feelings blatantly, which in some cases seemed like personal attacks rather than objective disagreements. It was personally difficult for me to hear members of the community speak so harshly of Madison Nguyen and Mayor Reed. However, my colleagues and I are elected officials and we are not better than anyone; therefore, it is important for freedom of speech to prevail, despite how harsh the comments may have been. Almost all the speakers that night were in favor of “Little Saigon.”
In June I voted in favor of RDA doing outreach to come up with a name and eventually place signs on Story Road. In general I like signs. In my travels to over 40 countries I have seen signage signify distinct areas of a city: Little Africa in Paris, Little Italy in New York, Little Istanbul in Berlin, etc. Signs bring distinction and importance to a geographic area and are testament to the hard work of ALL immigrant groups. Signs should be used in San Jose to support neighborhood business districts and our distinctive older neighborhoods.
San Jose is a celebration of diversity and the immigrant experience. We are a collection of peoples from Africa, Asia, Europe and Latin America. It is not a surprise that many ethnicities would like to have a district named after their homeland. Signs are symbols that can bring distinction and a sense of belonging to a geographic area.
I drove to Story Road the weekend before the vote to look at the area and visualize the future signs that our city would pay for through RDA funds. Afterwards, I kept driving east from the proposed Vietnamese Business District through several Strong Neighborhood Intiative (SNI) neighborhoods east of 101 and saw that there was still a lot to do. (SNI neighborhoods are funded through RDA funds.)
So the question came to me: Do I vote on funding $100,000 for signs that divide people or spend that $100,000 to help initiatives in those same SNI neighborhoods? I would rather put that $100,000 to those SNI neighborhoods in East San Jose where the residents are united about a particular neighborhood improvement; therefore, I voted no.
Madison Nguyen is strong in character and conviction and was a brave soul last Tuesday night. She is an effective advocate for the residents of District 7 and I am proud to serve with her. Elected officials should not be judged on one vote but the totality of their deeds and actions. It is important to allow for flexibility in government and to understand that there will be votes where people will have differences of opinions. Those differences should not be exploited but rather embraced and respected as essential ingredients of a true democratic process.
The City Council can either do boring things like maintain streets, parks, libraries, community centers and public safety, or they can do exciting things like MHP, Saigon Business District, labor peace, new city hall, grand prix and palm trees.
Either way, the San Jose taxpayers will be on call to fund it all, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
Reallocate the signage funds used on events like the Sybase Open, which are used only a few weeks out of the year. Make the sign money go further. If we can do it for the dwindling populations of Little Portugal and Japantown (not that I don’t appreciate their presence here), I’d say this is worth it.
I personally think the Story Road area should of been left as it is….. What gives those people the right to name anything in San Jose?
IT IS ALL WRONG
PO:
Congratulations. You have now become a full and complete politician. You can align yourselves with the best of them. You have become an expert at dealing with the fluff and ignoring the hard issues. Your column at this blog site has been nothing but puff pieces for weeks on end. In the beginning I thought, wow, we could get some real insight on this website by a weekly posting from a city councilman. Now, I know I don’t have to visit this web site until Tuesday since there is nothing relevant happening on Monday. So pat yourself on the back. Say good job. Another day, another column with nothing said and the hard issues ignored. You have officially graduated politician school.
I agree you (and the Council) should be addressing more important issues than this, but since you brought it up here’s my 2 cents.
The City should not be involved in naming a business district in the first place. Let the business owners get together and figure this out and let the Council take care of basic city services.
For those of us who grew up here during the Vietnam war, any district with the name Saigon in it hardly evokes a warm and fuzzy feeling. And after seeing the unfortunate display at the Council meeting by members of the Vietnamese community, I certainly would not be inclined to visit the shops there nor would I feel welcome.
It is strange the Council would opt to name a district for one ethnic group when there are other ethnic groups besides Vietnamese doing business there.
Despite this whole mess being mishandled, it is certainly no reason to launch a recall against Nguyen. As misguided as it may be, she did what she thought was best. The community can vote her out the next time she runs if they want, but what she did hardly rises to the level of recalling her.
PO wrote:“I drove to Story Road the weekend before the vote to look at the area and visualize the future signs that our city would pay for through RDA funds.”
THis whole exercise was a waste of time and money, and a diversion from the endemic budget problems that plague SJ. Spend time and energy working on the solutions to our third world roads and other infrastructure shortfalls, instead of the petty bickering between rival factions.
If people in a district want to form a business district and give it a name, let them fight it out in their business association, and let them pay for the signs.
For the council to get involved in this petty bickering is complete nonsense, and diverts attention from the real issues.
Bread and Circuses worked in Rome for a couple of hundred years. Is that what we have to look forward to in SJ??
Napper #1,
The best way to reduce the budget deficit is to increase the amount of revenue the city recieves through business and tourism revenue. “little Siagon” could have been an interesting idea to bring more tourism and small businesses to San Jose. Which would lead to more tax revenue.
Look and the revenue that San Francisco makes off its’ China Town.
Saigon Business District is as usual another vanilla “one size fits all” san jose mess.
Why don’t the other 9 council members explain their votes/thoughts weekly? I applaud Councilmember Oliverio for posting something weekly, which if anyone has attempted to do is tough.
Napper and Mr. Berlin, I hope you are e-mailing the other nine asking your questions of them, and trying to start a dialog as well. Don’t just stop here, you have much more potential. Use it.
Pierluigi,
I think you voted the right way on this one. I agree with JMO and Wondering. The Council has more pressing things to take care of than voting on something as private as the name of a business district in San Jose. JMO is correct; the business owners should be allowed to work this out themselves, without our tax dollars, or the Mayor, or City Council’s involvement. There are a lot of businesses on Story Road that are not just Vietnamese that have a stake in the naming of this business district.
Secondly, Wondering has hit home, for me personally, by saying that not everyone feels warm and fuzzy about the name Saigon. My father fought in the Vietnam War and I certainly don’t have the same feelings of pride that the Vietnamese community does, when it comes to naming any shopping center after Saigon.
As to Council Member Nguyen, she is their elected official and if she made promises she didn’t keep then that is something she will be held accountable for in the voting booth next time she runs. If she has fought hard to do a good job, that too will be come out in the voting booth. People who are angry with her have a right to speak their truth without being lectured to, as long as they do it respectfully. I think some of the Council Members who expressed disgust to those speaking out against Madison, had a nerve to do so, given that they were ignoring the RDA’s survey showing that citizens overwhelmingly supported the name, “Little Saigon.”
What I find so curious about all this is that separatism is becoming so acceptable these days. When I was growing up, integration was something we fought hard for. Getting rid of discrimination was something our whole country was working toward. Now I feel like we’ve gone backwards. We have been inundated with so many beautiful diverse immigrant groups that went through hell to come to the US, but they seem to want to bring their old country here with them, and seem to refuse to accept our laws, traditions, and values. It has gotten so bad in recent years that the news media says Happy Holidays, instead of Merry Christmas! Lots of large apartment rental companies won’t allow you to hang the US flag, or decorate for the holidays because they don’t want anyone to be offended? What?!
Also, if you look at the history and reasoning behind how Japan Town and China Town came to be, you’d be hard pressed to explain why we’d want to perpetuate the racism behind such towns. These towns and business districts were created because whites wanted them to be separate from them, and their white businesses. Now reverse discrimination has become acceptable. This new trend is pretty disturbing to me. I love diverse cultures, I grow and learn from these beautiful differences, I want people to remain involved in and proud of their cultures, but this is America. I think it is disrespectful of immigrants to demand that we accept their cultures, while they refuse to acclimate into our American culture, and way of life. I was born and raised here in the US, and I love this country. I’m deeply sadden to see it disappearing along with our rights piece by piece every single day with votes on issues like whether we should name something Little Saigon Business District, New Saigon Business Distinct, instead of Story Road Business District, or do we have the right to smoke in our own car/home, or do we have the right to filter certain things from our libraries, on and on. It’s all just very sad to me.
So how do you think all the Hispanic and other cultures feel about being in the Saigon Business District. Seems exclusionary to me. I certainly wouldn’t feel welcome if I wanted to open a business in the area. Going to be interesting to see who maintains the signs, will be a miracle if they aren’t vandalized with graffiti. Actually, I now have more respect for Madison Nguyen, she didn’t just pander to get votes in future elections.
I can’t believe the city council spent that much time on this issue. It makes no difference to me what they call but it obviously was a big deal to have a 1,000 people show up. So why not name it what they wanted? So in the end everyone is unhappy. Glad my rep Kansen voted against it.
There is a lesson here in democracy: do it yourself.
JMO’C already mentioned the answer here for all Vietnamese involved. If you care about it that much, pay for it yourself.
$100,000 for signs is not that much, if a whole community bands together with a dollar here, dollar there, fundraising carwash here, bake sale there. That won’t solve the health care problem, but it is the absolute obvious solution here.
How many people threatened their council member with bodily harm and figuratively set themselves on fire in the council chambers, when that same effort could have been used to raise money? I guarantee you the vote would have been different if a self-organized band of community members had donated $100,000, or half that, to the city with a single (conditional) naming request.
Live and learn, district 7. Government only works the way you want sometimes. Pouring buckets of venomous shame on the younger generation doesn’t work nearly as well as it used to. Switch to elbow grease.
My generation of Americans mostly stood by and watched this unfold. The only thing we’ve walked away with is the collective sense of disrespect to be found by some of that district’s people. I hope that impression is wrong, but the impression itself is very very real.
Pierluigi:
Re: “Little Saigon”
One wonders how many of the people that spoke and protested at City Hall were residents of San Jose. The Mercury News quoted someone from So Cal who jumped on a plane to fly up here and be a part of the fight. I don’t believe that outsiders should be allowed to weigh in on this (or any other issue).
It’s fashionable these days to give so much weight and concern to political correctness, cultural sensitivity, and so-called “community building.” But, here is a first hand example of how it is literally impossible to please all parties and factions within various ethnic groups. That’s why (in my opinion) we would all be best served to just treat everyone the same, and stop promoting each other for the sake of promotion and ego gratification. If you give to one, you must give to all…stop trying to elevate or promote one culture over another. There is a distinct AMERICAN culture that everyone of us can embrace without shedding our family heritage and culture. The city government/RDA should stop viewing culture as some kind of commodity.
Pete Campbell
Dear Madison Nguyen,
On this issue and others, your vote we will tally’em
When election time comes, you’re gonna need a valium
Good comments – Pierluigi
If people in Story Road Business area can’t agree on what new name should be, then spend city taxes on neighborhoods where money is needed and appreciated
Many who spoke at City Hall were from other cities. We should not reward an angry political fight between 2 Vietnamese business groups by city buying any signs
If they want ” Little Saigon” buy their own signs
Never mind this silly name issue.
What are you doing to reduce the budget deficit ?
Pierluigi
I respect your decision and the way you arrived at it. Madison is a excellent example for all of us.
If a name HAD to go there Little Saigon at least seems part of the US because of other areas in the US and world but WHY signs at all?
Agree with author – stop wasting money on visual pollution- those signs will need to be maintained- how much defacing will occur since a lot of people don’t like them? And what about traffic accidents- how many times do you notice a sign for the first time after a car hit it?
Time doesn’t stand still -what is Saigon related this year- or decade may be Laos next time- or some other area.
The City is lecturing us to spend money in San Jose to keep the sales tax at home and then votes to take part of the City out of the CITY and COUNTRY.
For me having the area signed with foreign city’s name says STAY OUT. And I will. I went into a lumpia store on the east side a few years ago because I love them and the clerk would not even acknowledge me. And then fawned over Asian customers that came in. Maybe he didn’t speak English but it’s pretty hard to ignore somebody who says I would like and then points at the display case? It was a store! I was smiling and they looked so good. It was really clear I didn’t belong and naming an area for a foreign city says the same.
Do they really not have $100,000 of potholes, dead street trees etc. in the area? I am so tired of the City not doing basics but having luxury money.
What’s in a name?
How about “Christmas in the Park”?
How much longer are we going to sit idly by whilst ‘Christ’ is part of word associated with an event in this God-less ‘burb known as San Jose?
Can’t we call it “Stuff in the Park” or “All People, All Genders and LGBT’ers, All Religions and Atheists Happy Park” or something?
We need to take action now and assemble a blue-ribbon commission (Jane Light, Chief Davis, Dave Cortese, for starters) of our finest politically correct shining lights to audit the whole “Christmas in the Park” event to ensure that it measures up to the blue litmus test that makes San Jose such a cornucopia of lunacy.
The risk of someone being offended by “Christmas in the Park” is just too great.
Pierluigi,
I didn`t sign off on #18, I left the message. Keep up the good decision making.
Late last night in an extraordinary emergency city council session, a blue-ribbon “Seperation of God and San Jose” task force was created.
The task force has graciously reached out and requested that I represent them in a spokesperson capacity here at SJI.
But enough with the formalities, let’s get down to business and the following task force announcements.
The council has expanded the purview of the “Seperation of God and San Jose” task force beyond the Christmas in the Park political correctness audit to include the following:
As of January 1, all city employees named Jesus, Mohammed, and anyone who’s name begins with Chris T will be fired so as to… oh, hang on, phone’s ringing…
“Hello? Hi Dave”
“What’s that? Of course I’m safe, I’m at home, why wouldn’t I be safe?”
“Slight revision? Uh-huh. Yep. Got it”
As of January 1, all city employees named Mohammed and anyone who’s name begins with Chris T will be.. oh for heaven’s sake er… for Chomsky’s sake, darned phone again…
“Hello? Yes Chief”
“Assalamu Alikum??? What? Another revision?”
“Ok. Roger that.”
As of January 1, all city employees whose name begins with Chris T will be fired from city payrolls so as to ensure that no one is offended by correspondence containing such a blatant religious reference.
Secondly, Jane Light has announced that in February, the library will be installing filters on city library computers.
The filtering software, developed by ACLU programmers, will block access to all web content containing biblical references. Should a library patron wish to view biblical content on library computers they can easily do so by obtaining a court order.
As you can see the “Seperation of God and San Jose” task force has a lot of work ahead of it and I pledge to do my level best to keep you informed here at SJI.
The Strong Neighborhoods Initiative is a program founded to provide a means for community members to give input as to how Redevelopment Agency tax increment funds should be spent within their redevelopment areas. Many members of the community decided that naming the business district would be a good way to spend this money.
Reading these comments is pretty infuriating because issues like this are exactly why SNI was founded and the reason we have open public meetings of our elected legislative bodies and the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. The City Council, acting as the Redevelopment Agency board, weighed the request against other uses for the tax increment funds and decided that it wasn’t the best use. Yet, for some reason, you’ve all come here to scream and cry about representative democracy in action.
The San Francisco-San Jose metro region is home to the second largest concentration of Vietnamese people in America. More than half of these people live in San Jose. http://www.sanjose.com says that this is the largest Vietnamese community outside of Vietnam. This group of people does not tend to live in the Almaden Valley. Many decided that official recognition of their presence in the neighborhood in which they’ve chosen to live would be beneficial to their community. The peanut gallery on http://www.sanjoseinside.com has, as is typical, decided to make a load of ridiculous, unamerican, and racist—or at least ignorant—comments on the subject.
One awesome example is poster Kathleen Flynn’s unwillingness or inability to see the difference between Chinatown 1875 and Little Saigon 2007. Her equating a community formed out of its members’ desire to be near people who share their own origins and a community formed by force and the threat of violence is remarkable. One wonders whether she would have made the same error in reasoning had this been a community of Alabamans wishing to name an area Little Mobile.
Another example is the glorious “Seperation [sic] of God and San Jose” comment by Novice. It’s a pretty wild leap to assume that somebody who wants a neighborhood named for one cultural group would not support a festival named for another cultural group. He also suffers from delusions that make him think that, because the ACLU defends Americans from forced participation in religion, they wish to eliminate all voluntary participation in American life. I wonder if Novice has ever actually been to America.
Pete Campbell seems to believe that America will fall apart if we decide to give special treatment to minority groups. American cities have had ethnic neighborhoods for centuries and America is still here. What’s more, other cities in other empires have had ethnic neighborhoods to no ill effect. He also neglects to mention the real special treatment given to the white majority for all of America’s history. A couple of dopey signs pale in comparison to the benefits given by the government to the white majority at the expense of all non-whites.
The last, most clearly racist example is crisis watch’s statement that he will stay out of all Vietnamese areas because of one rude clerk who wasn’t even selling Vietnamese food.
If this is a double comment, I apologize.
$$$$$$$$$$$
OHHHHH YOU BROUGHT UP RACE… in
case you didn’t know… around these parts, that makes you a racist.
25:
At least I was smart enough to go to college. :D
Do you expect me to believe that you don’t know that Mexico’s ruling class is a white minority?
Shush, finfan. Grown-ups are talking.
Novice once experimented with accusing another of racism on this board (but didn’t inhale) and understands the oh so seductive allure of unjustly accusing others of racism and the accompanying instant moral high ground rush one experiences.
It’s been shown time and again around here that those reaching for the racist/facist/nazi/hitler/kkk card are typically self loathing socialists with paper thin arguments trying to shut down a discussion.
Getting called a racist? Just another day at SJI.
#26
Do you expect me to believe that you don’t know that Mexico’s ruling class is a white minority?
Really? Is this a secret white cabal? Perhaps part of the same secret white cabal that rules the world?
Or is this all part of a CIA plot?
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/world-leaders-1/world-leaders-m/mexico.html
$$$$$$$$$$$
Please tell us more about the “real special treatment” that’s been given to the white majority “for all of America’s history.” There are certainly tens of millions of white Americans who would love to learn about something neither they nor their ancestors ever experienced. Tell me, does “real special treatment” include working in a coal mine, picking produce, waiting tables, or carrying a rifle into combat? Or maybe you meant the “real special treatment” enjoyed by indentured servants, struggling family farmers, cowhands, merchant sailors, and Dust Bowl Okies?
Let me ask you this: do you resent the fact that the Hispanic majority in Mexico has for years enjoyed a higher standard of living than other citizens (such as Los Indios)? I don’t think you do, because your writing is indicative of someone whose image of privilege and power comes only in one color, white.
Your nonsense about some fairy tale government having given so much to the white majority at the expense of non-whites sounds right out of Ward Churchill, the infamous pretend Native American. In truth, our government has been viewed with suspicion, and kept at arm’s length, by a great many white people since the day George Washington first took office.
The fact that white people have always ruled America does not mean anything close to your interpretation, no more than does the fact that Hispanics rule Mexico mean that one’s race there will entitle one to “real special treatment.” And just as the oppression of non-Hispanics has been of little benefit to the majority of Hispanics in Mexico, the oppression of non-whites here has done very little to improve the lives of the majority of white Americans.
The people who rule America may be white, but it was not skin color that elevated them to the ruling class. There are lots of ways to get rich—some of them less than honorable, but just having white skin is not one of them.
That college that ripped you off for your tuition should have told you about poor white people.
$$$$$$
If you were even halfway as skilled in analysis and reading comprehension as you are in hurling insults it might be worthwhile to look for insight and meaning in your posts. But you are proving yourself to be a complete waste of time. For instance, in order for your criticism (#26) to have any validity the ruling class in Mexico would have to be defined as non-Hispanic whites. But that’s absurd, they are Hispanic, just as are the tens of millions of their countrymen who live in poverty.
The point of my post was simple: in America, white does not equal power and privilege and never did. Even when it was accurate to say that power and privilege equaled white, the vast majority of white Americans struggled to make a living. Don’t you realize that when it comes to power and privilege the ruling class—no matter what color, creed, or country—will always hold on to it for themselves? It’s true: it USED to be in all the history books.
$$$$$$, is there no limit to lengths you will go to keep alive your deep resentment of white people?
#25- I see by $$$$$$ posts that the sharks from San Jose Revealed have gotten bored and have decided to swim back to SJI, in between their jabs at Tom McEnery, Pat Dando, and Mayor Reed, to tell us how racist and ignorant we are. I agree with you, their college tuition has been wasted.
#22- You wrote, “One awesome example is poster Kathleen Flynn’s unwillingness or inability to see the difference between Chinatown 1875 and Little Saigon 2007. Her equating a community formed out of its members’ desire to be near people who share their own origins and a community formed by force and the threat of violence is remarkable. One wonders whether she would have made the same error in reasoning had this been a community of Alabamans wishing to name an area Little Mobile.”
I think you better go pick up a History book. And when you’re done learning the facts that led to the forming of these towns, go back and read my post again. The Vietnamese Community wants to name the business district, “Little Saigon” because to them it stands for freedom from Communism. I was at the Tuesday night Council Meeting, and spoke with many of these folks. I also spoke with Latino groups, and others who owned businesses in that district. You see, I don’t think granting one group privilege over another is what this country’s moral fiber was built on. I also don’t think your logic stands up.
I have based my opinion on life experience, being out in the community working with different cultures and providing prejudice reduction training in an effort to help people come together. Along with, sitting on boards, and committees that deal with these types of issues everyday, I know first hand what is going out in the community.
Reading something out of a book doesn’t make you a genius $$$$. It only makes you partially educated on an issue. Try going out into the community and speak with these people. Look at the business district as a whole. Try working in the legal system where hate crimes are committed everyday because one culture bases it’s hatred of another because of things that transpired in their native country, or because they are ignorant of the other’s culture, and than try to preach to us about your bounty of experience and education, and then, maybe then, you’ll give us a credible offering to this conversation.
“I wonder if Novice has ever actually been to America.”
Actually I was in America once – but then I moved to the bay area.
“…the ACLU defends Americans from forced participation in religion”
Yep. $$$$$$$$ is spot on.
An extended stay in a gulag or a Pol Pot work camp pales in comparison to a graduation commencement prayer or a prayer before a high school football game.
Enjoy…
The ACLU, the best friend a sex offender ever had.
http://tinyurl.com/2gqr6o
http://tinyurl.com/29tdlr
http://tinyurl.com/27e8lh
http://tinyurl.com/2qwrc2
ACLU attempts a double play! Incarcerated Sex Offenders+Visits by Minors – what could possibly go wrong?
“The American Civil Liberties Union-Indiana, suing initially on behalf of a female inmate, had filed a class-action lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the policy.
The Indiana Department of Correction imposed the policy in 2001, stating that inmates with a record of sex offenses involving children “shall not be permitted to receive visits from minors.”
“The DOC justified the restrictions by arguing that sex offenders are at high risk of repeating the crime and often know their victims.”
“We’re very disappointed,” Ken Falk, legal director of the ACLU-Indiana, said Tuesday.”
– Attack the boyscouts? No justice, no peace!
http://tinyurl.com/323tr5
– Defend al Qaeda and the Taliban? Free KSM!
http://tinyurl.com/2gq4lx
– Abortions for minors without parental notification? Absolutely!
http://tinyurl.com/yq7qub
– Partial birth abortions? Bring it on!
http://tinyurl.com/2vyha8
– Burn the flag? You bet!
http://tinyurl.com/2ben7c
– But they support the troops!
http://tinyurl.com/2az6yw
The ACLU. America’s best friend.
#26- Theodore Roosevelt’s ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American…There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag… We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language… and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Amen to that!
#30
Actually I was in America once – but then I moved to the bay area.
Don’t worry. The rest of the country is slowly maturing, and will eventually be acting intelligently, as many in the Bay area already are. Then the social conservatives can all crawl back under the rocks from which they slimed out of the last few decades.
*sigh*
http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_tol.jsp?id=722
have fun.
I wanted to add a clarification to my post in #29- The Vietnamese community is torn between three fractions. The entire Vietnamese community did not support the name “Little Saigon.” One fraction did, one did not, and a third fraction wanted to be identified as an American business district. Secondly, by not allowing other cultures owning businesses on Story Road, to be a part of the reflection in the naming of this business district, I feel the special consideration given the Vietnamese community was undemocratic, discriminatory, and was separatism.
My original opinion on this issue still stands, and it is that I feel very strongly that the Mayor and Council should have stayed out of this, and allowed business owners the right to settle the name amongst themselves. Further, I want to point out how many times the Jewish, and Palestinian fractions have fought with one another, demanding that the County, and the City refuse to allow the other to hold ceremonies on government properties because they are bringing old hatred and discourse from their old county to this country.
Santa Clara as well as other cities and counties have refused to take part in such things as special interest designations of towns, and business districts because they are smart enough not to even go there. I firmly believe in shared cultures, and giving my business to any decently run business, regardless of ethnic origin, but I still hold true to the fact that is America, and that is where my loyalties lie. And I am not going to apologize to anyone for that.
#22 $$$$$$$$$$$
#26 $$$$$$$$
#33 $$$$$$
It’s a tough row to hoe having to defend a worldview based on pillars of self-loathing, ACLU miasma, and ‘activist’ blogs.
You seem like a sharp guy, hang in there and you’ll eventually figure out that the left’s tenets of self-hatred and hatred of America is but a form of mental illness.
$$$$$$
I guess all it takes is a bit of propaganda from a huckster to convince you that whites have never known hardship and struggle in America.
The Southern Poverty Law Center has about as much credibility as does Your Black Muslim Bakery, and that article you cited was constructed with the same integrity and purpose typically found in an infomercial. Morris Dees, the center’s founder who got his start in the mail order business, has turned hate into a very profitable business by hyping the minimal threat posed by White Supremacist groups (while ignoring the huge threat posed by minority gangs), attacking religions he doesn’t like, and peddling his own intolerant form of “tolerance” to a bunch of gullible liberals.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/03/sb-this-week-in-1172847076
http://www.rickross.com/reference/hate_groups/hategroups362.html
I love America. I love the ACLU for all the awesome reasons posted above. I love young people. I just hate racism and selfish Reaganites.
Having millions of dollars doesn’t disqualify any racists from preaching racism, so why should it disqualify anti-racists?
Kathleen: Why do you think that the city legislative body is wasting its time when it addresses important policy issues? I would think that you’d be happy that they agreed with you. The Vietnamese community did not get any favoritism. They asked for something and they were denied what they wanted. Representative democracy worked. It works because we have the right to petition our government.
Could you please tell us about some times that Palestinians and Jews have rumbled over events in San Jose. I am interested in this overlooked cultural war taking place in my hometown!
#37- First of all I’m a Democrat, and I’m far from rich, I can tell you that. I think you’re really good at stereo typing people, and that you might want to rethink making judgments about people based on your own personal bias. Next time rather than jumping to ignorant conclusions, try asking me I’ll be happy to tell you anything you want to know. Within reason that is!
Second of all, I did not agree with the vote by the Mayor and Council on the Little Saigon issue. Haven’t you been reading my posts correctly?
I think the business owners should have decided, no one else. The RDA did a survey that overwhelmingly supported Little Saigon as the name of choice. The problem with the survey done by the RDA is that it wasn’t inclusive enough, and wasn’t sent out far enough into the community. My understanding was that the surveys only went out a certain radius around the business district. I’m also not sure if they sent out the survey in multiple languages or not.
The Merc did a survey too, and the name Little Saigon rated highest as well. Council Members Chu, and Constant did their own personal community outreach, and they got the same result the Merc, and the RDA did. In a democracy, unless I’m mistaken, the majority wins. Clearly from the evidence I’ve seen, the majority was ignored. Not the first time I’ve seen the Mayor and Council ignore the majority on something important to the community.
As to the second part of your post, please feel free to call the Office of Human Relations, County of Santa Clara and speak to the Director, Richard Hobbs, or the Director of the Network For A Hate Free Community, Delorme McKee-Stovall. Both can educate you on the Jewish, and Palestinians constant battles for power on government property. The Office number is 408-792-2316.
You can call Lee Price at the City Clerks Office and ask her to go into the archives and direct you to the information you’re seeking, as this issue came before the old Mayor and Council, a few years ago. Wishing you good luck, and much enlightenment as you continue your path on educating yourself on real world issues.
38 – “…the Jewish, and Palestinians constant battles for power on government property.”??? Constant battles for power?? I’m around here a long time and I think I would’ve noticed these “constant battles.” I can think of one, maybe two times there was an issue, and I would hardly call it a battle for power. Sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
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Obviously you were quite impressed by the shell game that Tim Wise offered up as scholarship. You shouldn’t have been. You should’ve realized your obligation to view with skepticism any attempt to use a historical lens to bring clarity to a current event. Wise, in his attempt to pass off apples as oranges, would have you equate the ABOLITION of injustice (indentured servitude) with the ESTABLISHMENT of injustice (affirmative action today). Using his reasoning, that being that any act that abolishes injustice against a group constitutes the awarding of preference to that group, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would have to be defined as an act of affirmative action—an act about which Hubert Humphrey said”
“If the Senator can find in Title VII … any language which provides that an employer will have to hire on the basis of percentage or quota related to color, race, religion, or national origin, I will start eating the pages one after another, because it is not in there.”
Clearly the act, which abolished segregation and discrimination, cannot be defined as affirmative action. Neither can any of the examples cited by Tim Wise in the article you provided. All they proved is that when fighting against what is clear for you to see, a zealot will go to any length to blur your vision.
No matter how many ancient horrors or examples of injustice you uncover, the day you accept race as a reason for awarding or depriving rights or benefits today is the day you become a racist—no matter what you call yourself.
Kathleen, I read your post where you said,
“The Council has more pressing things to take care of than voting on something as private as the name of a business district in San Jose. JMO is correct; the business owners should be allowed to work this out themselves, without our tax dollars, or the Mayor, or City Council’s involvement.”
That’s what the City Council voted to do. By voting to not fund the posting of “Little Saigon” neighborhood signage, they voted to stay out of the issue. They can’t give a thousand people with a serious petition the Bill Garbett treatment, after all.
I’m not sure how the city would determine an area’s traditional name, but the sign ordinance is written in such a way as to allow a private applicant to post public benefit gateway signs that contain a business area’s traditional name.
http://www.sanjoseca.gov/planning/pdf/sign_code.pdf
Of course, these signs would also probably need to be in the public right-of-way, so I don’t see how the city can avoid getting caught up in the issue if someone applies to install a Little Saigon sign.
What are you even talking about, 40? Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad you stopped trying to talk about Mexico and gave up your attempt to trick me into defending their racism, but I’m not sure why you’re juxtaposing the first huge step in ending white privilege at the expense of other races with further attempts to level American society and economy after 400 years of white privilege and make it possible for non-white groups to have the opportunity to bring themselves the prosperity that you take for granted.
No matter what you say, acknowledging that racism still exists and attempting to address and rectify the issue will never make anyone a racist, no matter what you tell yourself.
#39- Hy Perbolic,
Just because it isn’t in the newspaper, or on TV doesn’t mean it’s not occurring. I know about it because I work with these, and many other groups. The unfortunate thing is that instead of cherishing their new citizenship in the US, and acclimating to our values, customs, and life styles, while enjoying and maintaining their own cultures, SOME of these factions bring their old politics here and expect government to bend toward their will, and try to involve us in politics that are not ours to be mediating for them. The Little Saigon issue is a perfect example of this. (Notice I said some cultures. Not all immigrants bring old baggage with them. They fled to this country because it is filled with freedoms, and a new way of life. In some cases, these immigrants value the US and it’s foundation more than some American born citizens, who have never known the kind of poverty, oppression, or injustices these wonderful new additions to the US have.)
Recently, I spoke with a Board of Supervisor about these conflicting factions and he had some very interesting things to say about it. He told me that the reason their weren’t a lot of business districts named after certain cultures is because local government doesn’t want any part of this type of conflict between two battling factions, and secondly, it is unfair to favor one faction over others. It made sense to me, and I must say I strongly agree with him. The beauty of the US for me is that we have so many freedoms. Unlike other countries with censorship, and serious physical consequences for speaking openly like we do on political issues, we are blessed to be able to have these kinds of discussions in an open forum, and disagree, without fear of retaliation. So carry on, enjoy the weekend, and thank you all for sharing your thoughts and ideas here on SJI. I enjoy reading your comments.
“Twenty John Kerry supporters met for their first group therapy session in
South Florida Thursday, screaming epithets at President Bush as they shared
their emotions with licensed mental health counselors. “
http://tinyurl.com/2362bt
Republicans Report Much Better Mental Health Than Others. Relationship persists even when controlling for other variables
http://www.gallup.com/poll/102943/Republicans-Report-Much-Better-Mental-Health-Than-Others.aspx
And now we have $$$$$$$$ weighing in with
“I love the ACLU for all the awesome reasons posted above.”
I’m absolutely against human cloning but there can be no doubt we need a clone army of Dr Phils post haste to help all these adrift leftists.
43 – What does your response have to do with the initial point about the Jews and the Palestinians??
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Okay, you didn’t get my point. I’d assumed that you were capable of understanding the difference between the ABOLITION of a discriminatory practice and the ESTABLISHMENT of one, but clearly your brain is as closed to reason as are those found within radical Islam, Messianic Zionism, and the Ku Klux Klan.
But that is not to say that I don’t get your point, because what you believe is patently clear. You believe in depriving one group and awarding another based solely upon YOUR PARTICULAR INTERPRETATION of history, justice, and the best interests of society. Well, congratulations—your methods have put you in the company of:
– The segregationists of the Jim Crow South, who (to use your terminology) “acknowledged” one of their perceptions (black inferiority) and sought to rectify it by the adoption of segregation.
– Zionist terrorists in Palestine, who “acknowledged” one of their perceptions (the right of Jews to live in a homogeneous state) and sought to rectify it by running the local Arabs off their land.
– Nazi Germany, where the people “acknowledged” one of their perceptions (Jewish complicity in the degradation of their nation) and sought to rectify it by removing Jews from society.
There is certainly no need for me to include in this list the early Americans who drove Native Americans from their land, as that is no doubt a tidbit that you include nightly when rocking and chanting yourself into a self-satisfying trance of white hatred.
Your closing words (“No matter what you say”) say it all, and it has nothing to do with me. Nothing anyone says, regardless of the evidence or clarity of reason, will move you from your beliefs. So blinded are you by your twisted brand of anti-racism that you cannot see the hypocrisy in promoting it through racism in its very worst incarnation, statutory discrimination.
Just one question about your brand of anti-racism: what color hood do you wear?
#41- $$$$$ I don’t think you get it! No… the Council did not vote that way to stay out of the naming of the Vietnamese business district. Ugh! They voted the way they did because they were supporting Council Member Nguyen requset, because other special interest groups were putting pressure on them to vote on the name they did, and for other political reasons. The business owners can put whatever name on their own sign, without permission from the City, if they pay for it themselves. The City, if it really were minding it’s own business would have named it something simple, like Council Member Constant suggested, “Story Road Business District.” Nothing more I can say $$$$. It’s just my opinion based on the facts as I personally know them, and from speaking to several Council Members, and one Board of Supervisor.
#44- You said,“What does your response have to do with the initial point about the Jews and the Palestinians??”
In my posting # 43 was an answer to your remark in # 39, ” Just because it isn’t in the newspaper, or on TV doesn’t mean it’s not occurring. I know about it because I work with these, and many other groups.” I think my response is pretty much self explanitory.
Bottom line is that just because you don’t read about it, or see it on TV, it doesn’t mean these factions aren’t sending emails, or making personal visits to officals to pressure them into getting them to do things their way. Just how many Board of Supervisor, or City Council Meetings have you attended? Gee, no wonder you aren’t up to date on this stuff.
I love white people. (Some of my friends are white! They’ve very articulate.) I hate racism.
I see the world with clear eyes and a positive outlook, because I know old racists like you will be dead soon, leaving clear the path to a brighter, prosperous tomorrow for all the world’s people.
It must be horrible to live your life disregarding entire bodies of knowledge because you believe that certain sciences are only for certain kinds of people. I can’t imagine what it must be like to believe that anybody who gathers sociological data that shows that institutional racism exists is an islamo-communo-homosexualo-fascist because all the data gathered show that institutional racism exists, and that statisticians are all liars because statistics are hard to understand sometimes.
I don’t follow the hood thing. I guess I the color of the hood I wear is the same as that of the sweatshirt I’m wearing.
47 – Believe it or not, you don’t know everything. You may had some experiences that have helped to shape your opinions but you do not have the exclusive market on “my opinion is the right one.”
I have been involved for many years with both of the groups you mentioned, I have served many years on County and City Boards and Commissions, and I have attended scores of Council and Supervisor meetings.
So thanks for the attempted put-down, but it just dilutes your argument and puts doubt in our minds about just how much you really know.
But, keep posting. I know you will. Again and again.
Re: 47
Hey, results are results, amirite?
#50- I in no way meant anything I said to you as a put down. As to your comment that I think I have the market cornered on, “my opinion is the right one,” you are very wrong about that. My opinion is simply that, my opinion. I’m not sure why you believe I don’t respect your opinion on this, but I do, I just don’t happen to agree with it.
As to your thought on how credible I may or may not be in my opinion isn’t really the issue here. I believe you started this dialog with an accusation that I was posting misinformation, which I am not. I’m pleased to hear you have been heavily involved in working with these groups too. They need the help. Perhaps we’ll meet up sometime Mr. Hy Perbolic. What is your real name, perhaps we already have met.
SJI was created to encourage open honest discussions, exchanging thoughts, views, and personal opinions. And yes, you are correct, I will post again, and again, just like I hope you will continue to because believe it or not, I really do enjoy having my points of view challenged and questioned. It helps me grow, learn, and educate myself better on vital issues. And if I find that I am wrong on an issue, I have no problem with owning up to it.
Thank you for volunteering on the boards and commissions you do. I know from doing it myself, it isn’t always easy.
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First of all, it’s not exactly news that racism was a significant component of American history. That you are able to recite past wrongs does nothing to salvage your deeply-flawed contention that discrimination against certain groups in the past has benefitted all white Americans. All you’ve really managed to do with this little walk down the path of history is to again lead yourself astray.
If it is not enough that today a great many “whites” in America are the descendant’s of immigrants who arrived here after the abolition of slavery (and were themselves discriminated against based on nationality, not skin color) to convince you that your brush is too broad, then perhaps it will help if I show you a way to stay within the lines.
You base your entire position on the belief that because all blacks in early America suffered discrimination all others of that era (white citizens) benefitted (and the impact of that discrimination affects the descendants of both groups today). Okay, let’s give your reasoning a try.
In 1913, California passed the Alien Land Law which prohibited Asian immigrants from owning property. Using your logic, all white Californians, even those who did not own property, somehow enjoyed a benefit from this law (in effect from 1913 to 1946). It is worth noting that during this time period the Dust Bowl Okies arrived (penniless), the Great Depression occurred, and millions of white Americans had to give up their jobs to fight in two world wars.
But none of that matters, does it—because the way you see it, every one of these whites derived a benefit. Well, let’s check for any lingering evidence of this advantage. As of 2004, the statistics on home ownership in this state were: White (non-Hispanic) 62%, Asian 55%.
Now, before you claim victory, don’t you want to consider mitigating factors such as the half-million Vietnamese who live in California and were unaffected by the land law? How about the recent influx of Chinese? No, I guess you don’t—you’ve made it clear that your theory has no room for bothersome factors.
Okay, if you insist on chalking this one up as a win, I would ask you to then apply your logic system to this fact: in 1913, over one-third of black families living in Los Angeles owned their own homes. In the words of W.E.B. Du Bois, commenting that year on the state of blacks in Los Angeles, “Out here in this matchless Southern California there would seem to be no limit to your opportunities, your possibilities.”
Now, since the Asian Land Law did not include any restrictions on black property ownership, by your methodology they too benefitted from the discrimination against Asians. So I ask you: do you want to go to South Central L.A. and spread the word that, to use your revolting terminology, black home owners “didn’t really make themselves what they are?” Do you want to explain how a group that for so long had such an advantage over Asians now lags in home ownership (38%).
What happened to the advantage? Did it evaporate due to the vagaries of the decades? By your reasoning it undoubtedly once existed, so what, is the only type of advantage that can vaporize that which favor blacks? Or could the loss of advantage be due to the massive migration of blacks into California during WWII? Nope, can’t be that, because your theory doesn’t allow for it.
The truth about the disparity is that, one, whatever advantage there was, it did not impact those non-Asians too poor to buy a home, and two, that life in a dynamic society is far too complex for simple explanations like yours.
Not that that will stop you.
Stop me from what?
What you’re saying doesn’t even qualify as simple. You’re not saying anything at all. I’m explaining what white privilege is because you asked me to, and you’re trying to be cute and play Internet Socrates.
Privilege and race relations are extremely complex, and you don’t seem to be able to comprehend it. That’s OK. I’d suggest that you read from huge body of work on the subject, but it’s all by islamo-socialisto-communo-homosexualo-femino-fascists of the liberal academico-media elite, so I’m sure you won’t.
I can’t resist stooping to your level on this one, though:
If the ultimate test of something is “to go to South Central L.A. and spread the word,” maybe you should go there and say that poor people live in crime-riddled neighborhoods made up of bad housing stock because they are too lazy to make themselves better and lack the moral fiber to refrain from breaking laws.
[Ctrl+F “make themselves what they are” returned one match, found in comment #52. Do you see how I used quotation marks in my post? They go around something somebody else actually said.]
52—I’m sure you didn’t mean to imply that only Whites had to give up their jobs and fight when you said “…, and millions of white Americans had to give up their jobs to fight in two world wars,” did you? You must be aware of what American citizens of Japanese ancestry gave up—their homes, their businesses, their friends, etc. And many of them fought in the war—including the most decorated unit in the war.
This omission in your lengthy response once again brings into question the “facts” you present.
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I don’t know what’s “cute” about using your unique reasoning system to demonstrate its inherent flaws. What happened was quite simple: when subjected to verifiable data, you reasoning system crashed and burned.
As for you correcting my use of quotations, here are your words in post #25 (under the “Safest City” topic):
– Another is that, because white is the norm in the USA, people who aren’t are seen as outside of the norm. The aspect of this that upsets me the most is that white people often take their wealth and prosperity for granted, and don’t acknowledge that they didn’t really make themselves what they are.
Check the last five, incredibly racist words in the second sentence. Are we to believe that you can’t even remember sharing with us the aspect that upsets you most?
White people “didn’t really make themselves what they are?” I tried in my earlier response to be civil, but since civility failed I’ll make myself clear: that statement is the work of a heartless, brainwashed, idiot. That you would say such a thing not only discredits you, but also the “huge body of work” on race relations that you imply to have mastered. To put it in a way that you might comprehend, what you said about white people is the equivalent of insulting all blacks with the N-word.
Next time, before correcting me, would you please Ctrl+F yourself.
Merrill (#54)l,
Reread the paragraph. The issue on the table was how “whites” allegedly benefitted from the land law. If you choose to allow the limitations in your reading comprehension to bring into question the facts I present, go right ahead. There are lots of people for whom misinterpretation is a way of life.
I find it interesting that your method of criticizing me (for referring only to the subject group) involves you listing the contributions and sacrifices of just one, Japanese-Americans, of the numerous groups that served. If your point was to upbraid me for what you misread as my inconsideration of other groups, speaking up for only one group was certainly a strange way to do it.
‘White people “didn’t really make themselves what they are?”’
Did you raise yourself, educate yourself, build your neighborhood, lend yourself the money to buy your house, rent yourself an apartment, build the freeways to connect your neighborhood to your place of employment, hire and employ yourself, or lend yourself money to start a business?
The answer is no.
I guess you are a product of American society.
“Ctrl+F yourself”
Yes! That is as good as my joke, “Sonoma Chicken Coup.”
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (did I get the right # of $s?) #22—you miss the point. Most of those who posted are not critical of “Saigon” in the name, no matter what precedes or follows it. They are critical of the city ever getting involved officially and spending taxpayer $$$$$$$$$$$$$ on something that the merchants of the district should have worked out and paid for themselves.
It did, however, expose the political naivete and vulnerability of Ms. Nguyen, who should have known her entire constituency better than to make the proposal without full vetting in advance. It’s tantamount to the mayor and council in Miami taking a position on Cuba.
Kathleen #38—the reason the majority lost is that the Mayor and Council circled the wagons to protect their colleague and the “compromise” promulgated by their colleague on the council who naively proposed the district have a goverment sanctioned name, apparently failing to realize the firestorm that would ensue.
The majority was ignored the will of the manjority in order for the council to help its colleague save face.
And make no mistake—the decision was made and the vote assured well before the meeting to “solicit public input” (yeah, right!) attended by so many.
#38 and #59
I do not think that the City Council, the Board of Supervisors, or any other government entity is supposed to base their vote on whichever group has the largest number of screaming yahoos show up at a meeting. I believe that would be called corruption, even if no money changed hands.
If it were okay we could just put voting machines in the room, and let whoever shows up at a meeting determine the outcome.
58:
I understood that very clearly, though it may have been boggled in my trying to explain racism to racists who don’t think racism exists.
Look in the beginning of my comment 22. The City Council was petitioned by residents of San Jose. It considered their request, deliberated on it, and took action by voting to deny their request. The City Council did not vote to spend a single dime on Little Saigon. It can’t ignore a request from so many people. The Little Saigon proponents were not a couple of lone wierdos like William Garbett or George Green, but a huge group of residents.
“BLACK TUESDAY” Protest at San Jose City Hall / 1-1-2008
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wTRASbEnk7A