Like everyone else in San Jose, I have been following the controversy over the government’s mishandling of the friendly-fire killing of local football hero Pat Tillman with mounting incredulity. If a family with the profile and PR horsepower of the Tillmans can’t get the truth from the government, think what it must be like for the 3,300 other families of dead American soldiers. Will the exposure of the lies told to the Tillman family have any effect on the rest of America, sitting in front of our radio and TV newscasts that endlessly repeat the talking points of the White House and Pentagon snow jobs that pass for information these days?
Pat Tillman’s family does not deserve a snow job. Tillman’s memory is best served by the truth, not some storybook fairytale concocted by the small-minded, empire-obsessed, oil-swilling neocons that are responsible for marching this country into needless war and the killing (so far) of 3,300 U.S. soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, and the maiming for life of countless others. Lying to the Tillmans is an unforgivable insult. Lying to the citizens of this country who are expected to keep funding the administration’s illegal acts of aggression is criminal.
Things have gotten so ridiculous that instead of just coming out and telling people the truth, our government and military leaders have colluded in fraud to cover up the fact that soldiers get killed by friendly fire, something that most people accept as a part of war. This concoction shouldn’t be too big a surprise since the war we are engaged in was sold to the nation by a similar conspiracy of fraud, and that, really, is the back story to the Tillman situation. Our pro-war leaders think if they can get away with fooling an entire nation into believing that this idiotic war of choice to enrich their corporate backers is justified, what’s wrong with a little white lie? Just invent a story of heroics that the American people and Tillman’s family will feel good about and keep them from making any waves.
The stupidity of that position is there for all to see. Like every other war-related endeavor—all based on lies—embarked upon by the Bush-Cheney Administration, aided and abetted by their Pentagon hitmen, this one has blown up in their faces and has sparked a significant amount of criticism. Now, Congressman Mike Honda is rightly calling for a House Armed Services Committee investigation into the Tillman conspiracy, and we know where that will lead. If Congress really seeks the truth, we will see more than the indictments of a few officers and generals. The Tillman case is the tip of a very large iceberg, and any process that exposes the whole truth and nothing but the truth of the past six years can only end in impeachment.
In the meantime, our community must come together and lend our support to our neighbors, the Tillman family, in their quest for the truth of what really happened to Pat, and to support Rep. Honda’s call for Congress to investigate the shameful, deceitful exploitation of Pat Tillman’s memory by a government that is clearly out of touch with reality.
I agree with Napper, above. We don’t need Jack’s third-rate editorializing, we already know how he feels. In fact, some readers wonder how much he actually cares about the Tillman family and how much he just needs them as another excuse for Bush-bashing.
While the U.S. Government may not be of interest to San Joseans, I think what has transpired in the Tillman, a local son, case is of interest to San Joseans. Our lives are affected by many entities. Local government, state government and national government, all have an impact on our daily lives and interests. I think a well informed citizen must keep up to date and aware of all aspects of government. San Jose Inside is a wonderful forum to express our thoughts. Whether we agree with each other or not, we have the opportunity to express our thoughts.
Let’s keep our thoughts coming whether we agree with Jack and Tom or not. They have provided us with a soap box for our little Hyde Park corners.
A lying Federal government is not a local problem? Seems to me if they lie about this what else will they lie about?? A deceptive government impacts all of us—even here at the local level. And could it get much more local than to have the key players in this pathetic display be from San Jose? As Tip used to say—“All politics is local”.
There’s a bit of irony here that I haven’t seen picked up on.
I would bet that a national poll would show that the majority of Americans trust the Pentagon more than they trust the mainstream news media.
Why would I make such a shocking statement?
The news media is trained in J school to take out targets in the following order
– Republican presidents
– Pentagon/Military
– etc
The media’s ‘scrutiny lasers’ are trained on the military 24×7 trying to nail ‘em. If they can’t nail ‘em on legitimate news – they’ll make up their own ‘fake but accurate’ news.
Witness the doctored Reuters Lebanon/Israel photographs, CBS forged National Guard documents, Newsweek’s fake koran desecration story, and the media’s more popular than ever reliance on ‘anonymous’ sources, and on it goes.
Truth to power indeed.
Jack, Jack, Jack!
Your ‘commie’ and ultra left leanings sure do come through in your latest rant.
Have you forgotten 9/11? Have you forgotten the other terror attacks on the U.S. that came from those in Afghanistan and Iraq? Do you hate the United States so much that you will distort history for your own purposes?
Stick to what you know and are good at: the Arts and music! And maybe editing.
I sure would hate to have you watch my back!
Jerry
Novice—I bet you are wrong. Trust the Pentagon? Did you forget that tomorrow is satire day, not today? Have you forgotten the many lies and distortion from Vietnam? Are you so blinded by the right that you have to regurgitate from their playbook? I went to journalism school and we were taught objectivity (look it up). Have their been some poor journalists who did not live up to their profession? Sure, but examples of such are few and far between. You might not like the news but that doesn’t mean it is biased. If I supported this President, the lying military (at least in the Tillman case) and this war effort, I would try to deflect people away from that just as you are.
Jerry #6 – “Commie and ultra-left leanings”??? Opposing a war built on lies and attacking a military for lying to a family about the death of a loved one is hardly “commie” or “left-leaning.” And what does 9/11 have to do with this? Hardly anyone outside of Bush’s brain truly believes any of this is related to 9/11—it was a convenient lie to cover their tracks, but it has been shown to be untrue.
I won’t question your patriotism or love of country, so please don’t question those of us who believe there are better ways to resolve conflicts than to engage in a war based on lies.
Fellow Bloggers—Just about everyone, including the Tillmans, know pretty much what happened to their terrific son. They also know, as do we all, that no general or other military poobah has been held even slightly accountable for their part in unquestionably lying about the incident, and their participation. Closure for Tillmans and us all is in seeing real live accountability in all this cheating. In Japan, even today, there would be many self-inflicted wounds of shame, some deadly, if they did what we have done to a prominent samurai. Government chickenshit has been going on ever since this terrific government began. As for the peace-nik crappola, “no more war!”, we wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for General Washington and a real commander in chief, honest Abe. Not only that, the Taliban being defeated by our fighting men and women assuming the lotus position in public squares in Afghanistan in a faceoff with women-hating, kite-hating, sneaky Talibani assassins????
I don’t think so. Stupid wars are the problem, not wars. How would Ghandi have fared facing down Adolph with a flower? He had those softies the Brits to deal with. Incompetent military have always been with us (think of Lincoln’s first generals). Incompet-ent citizens too. Maybe Jack had too much Dr. Spock early on, but Bush-bashing shows he still has some spunk. SJI is a roomy place for opinions other than futile attempts to make SJ into a real place, not just a suburb (which many bloggers think it should be). George Green
Yes, the left overs of the old Communist Party, now using the old commie name, progressives, and their offsprings, the current peacenicks! Even the old left who went to Spain (premature anti-facists) don’t take the position that we shouldn’t defend ourselves! Over there, not on our soil!
Do you deny the attacks on the United States?
Where were you when the fit hit the shan? Are you old enough to be a vet of WWII or Korea? Or even Viet Nam? What do you know of Honor and Duty? Have you ever served in any capicity?
What would you propose to do? Allow the next attack to take place here on our soil? then what?
Jerry
I wholeheartedly embrace topics like this on San Jose Insider. I come here to hear about things important to San Jose residents—not just San Jose topics.
And kudos to Congressman Honda for calling for investigation.
It is called “cover your ass!” When Pat went down, I can just see those poor bastards saying, “Oh, s***!”
And then it went up the command! CYA, CYA!
Now it is coming back to haunt everyone!
Yes, the Generals are just as much to blame as the grunts who were in that fire fight, but now we must let it rest! The blame can’t be fixed. There are no guilty parties. The commanders should get sent home. Promotions denied.
The Walter Reed debacle is an example! Did you read the Chaplain’s letter on that subject?
GMR
As an American, I hope we do not forget 911.
I also hope we don’t forget Viet Nam, Watergate , The Bay of Pigs or Pearl Harbor. We can learn from mistakes we have made in all these historic events. We may be Democrats or Republicans when we stand in line to vote, but when we act, we are Americans. To not encourage dialogue about mistakes we have made would be un-American. Members of my family, along with millions of other Americans, have given their lives on battle fields to protect that right. As an American, that is a member of the Republican Party, I am not afraid to admit that this administration has made a lot of mistakes, and it looks like we are learning about more every day. This does not make me a Republican traitor or a “commie”, it makes me an American that loves his country enough to admit his parties mistakes. Jack, don’t stop trying to get to the truth, but please be sure and be as critical of both parties.
Jack uses a Federal model to illustrate a universal problem. The “culture of deceit” is not a Federal exclusive. Or have you all forgotten the Gonzales administration already?
Thanks #1, I’ve begun to think that my reminders are nothing more than exercise for my fingers. Last week, I reminded Single Gal of the mission statement of SJI ,“a look inside San Jose politics and culture.” If you, Jack, and other want to expand the range of topic, then change the mission statement. I do feel your topic today sqeaks in because of Tillman’s residency, however, this is a national story. #3, it’s not that some of us are not interested in national topics, that’s an absurd thought.
And, thank goodness to #6, I’d trust you to watch my back!
#8 George Green
First of all, it his name is spelled Gandhi. Secondly, Gandhi was faced with the question of how he would deal with the brutality of Nazi fascism. He admitted that it was a difficult question to address. However, you completely misunderstand Gandhi and the Civil Rights leaders who followed in his footsteps if you think he simply presented a flower in the face of a gun. Gandhi was an intelligent politician who used his strong belief in Satyagraha (truth force) to create a powerful, proactive manner to fight aggression. His form of civil disobedience incorporated non-violent, non-cooperation. Essentially, as was the case in India, you cannot control the masses if they refuse to be controlled. Of course, for it to work, individuals have to be willing to give up their life. There was a French town that used Gandhi’s principles of non-violent, non-cooperation successfully. The same principles of Satyagraha would not have allowed a person like Hitler get into the position of power he attained through divisiveness and propaganda. Once in power, it is questionable as to if it could have worked as a sole strategy, but as one tool it likely could have been very effective.
#7 is definitely a target rich post.
Perry writes: “Novice—I bet you are wrong. “
“Gallup also found TV news and daily papers near the bottom – on par with Congress and labor unions – in its ranking of public confidence in US institutions.”
Perry writes: “Trust the Pentagon? … Have you forgotten the many lies and distortion from Vietnam?”
Ahh that’s the rub isn’t it?
You’re still stuck in the 60’s – as is much of the left. I’m talking about *today*, 2007.
The news isn’t biased?
Here’s one of my favorite quotes.
“We should acknowledge that maybe the biggest problem is that most of us think too much alike and come from the same backgrounds,” says David Yarnold, editor of the opinion pages at The (San Jose) Mercury News. “Find the pro-lifers in a newsroom. That’s harder than finding Waldo.”
http://foi.missouri.edu/mediacredibility/nwsrmconserv.html
I wonder if KFOG’s Scoop Nisker realized how much of a journalism prophet he would become with his tagline “If you don’t like the news, go out and make some of your own”.
Jesus people, I think it’s OK to talk beyond San Jose every once in a while. But Tillman is FROM San Jose and so is his family, why is that off topic?
Man some people in here are a little rigid. You all need a glass of wine or a joint.
I wonder if the families of Jews who were murdered in German concentration camps, or the families who have lost their sons and daughters in this senseless war, would agree with some of the heartless comments on the blogg? Come on people, we are called the human race for a reason. Whether we live in San Jose, New York, or in the North Pole, we need to stand together, regardless of political affiliation, to ensure that our government is being honest with us. (Too young to remember Nazi Germany I guess.)
Lately, it amazes me, when I read SJI, how many of you don’t seem to really want honest exchanges of ideas, thought, and opinions. You just seem to bash the way someone expresses them selves, or make fun of serious issues, or outright make rude comments.
I think Jack posted something here of more importance than whether it is San Jose related. He points out that a family, who lost a child, deserves the truth about how he was killed. I’m sure that is no laughing matter for this young man’s family.
I gather some of you making these heartless comments have never served in the military, or lost a family member in the war. If you had, you’d never be able to be so disrespectful of this family’s right to know the truth, or so ungrateful to a soldier who died for your right to freedom. Yes, even your right to freedom in writing some of the junk you’re writing here.
Thanks for the post Jack. Great job~
Well said #12—- first honest comments I’ve seen in a long time. I like someone who calls it as he sees it—not like the closed minded, closet case Republicans who have commented so far. It’s amazing to see their written comments are nothing but a repeat of “talking points” that have been issued by the administration and reiterated on news shows by the commentators they send out. It shows me that these people have no mind of their own to view a situation and then judge it’s credibility. Perhaps they can’t because they have been so brainwashed by the propaganda issued that they are so biased they can no longer make logical assessments and then come to their own conclusions. Sad state of affairs, but what can one expect.
Regardless of what one’s party affiliation is, you can’t overlook the fact that this administration has by far been the most corrupt in the history of the United States. Does anyone see the humor in the fact that there were problems in San Jose and the name “Gonzales” was at the heart. Now in the federal arena there are problems and at the center of that one the name “Gonzales” surfaces again. Also another strange irony—that in both situation (even though radically different) people involved apparently “can’t recall the facts” as the occurred and “were not present at any meetings” when things were being discussed. How’s that———-
Concerned Citizen
Jack, great article today! unfortunately, it seems there are a lot of people here who need to go see a dr. about removing the bug up their butt.
#6 Jerry R. Good God, not even the Bush Administration can tie 9/11 to Iraq (as much as they’d like to). Nice name calling BTW. “Commie” I love it. Heaven forbid that those of us who think that the Bush Administration lied to get us into this war and has bungled it (very) badly speak out. Calling us “commies” certainly raises the level of discourse.
#14 WW, wow, good to see you feel that today’s article “squeaks in”. Jack certainly needed your OK on that. Have you ever thought about starting your own blog so you can stop worrying about whether posts here meet your definition of the mission? Perhaps something like, “San Jose Inside, a look inside San Jose Politics and Culture from an anal retentive’s perspective”? Whoops, I’ve stooped to name calling, my bad.
To #1 NAPPER and all those who agree with him; How appropriate. That is just what the Bush administration wants the country to do; take a nap while they create a war that slows the flow of oil into America, thereby raising the price of gas over three dollars a gallon and destined to hit four dollars sometime in the summer.
How soon we forget that the CEO of EXXON was rewarded with a $400 million bonus early this year. Where did that money go anyway?
I’m ready for a nap…I guess some of you are already there.
Found the answer to my own question.
http://www.pollingreport.com/institut.htm
As I suspected, the public’s miltary approval rating is higher than any other public institution.
The press comes in *barely* ahead of law firms.
PS. Kudos to Jack for exploiting a real tragedy from which to launch into a classic, sophomoric, leftist rant. BTW, you left out Haliburton, Tom Delay, and Enron.
Whoahhhh, is it Friday yet?!!! Jack’s thread has got everyone worked up into a fenzy. We need that Friday humor…bad!
Folks please repeat the mantra:
“It’s only a blog…It’s only a blog…My self-esteem is not at stake…It’s only a blog”
Jerry R.,
I’m a fellow veteran who served in the first Gulf War. Afghanistan; a necessary war to bring justice to those who attacked us on September 11, 2001. Iraq; a war to make the country a carbon copy of the United Arab Emirates, where George W., Big Oil, and Haliburton would make their billions off black gold. Unfortunately, for over 3,200 brave Americans, their adventurism has been a bloody disaster. How many reasons have now been given for being in Iraq? An imminent threat to U.S. (false), WMD (false), Democracy (yeah right), fighting terrorists (that we created), 9-11 (see Afghanistan)? I think the latest, and most outrageous reason we’re in Iraq is because if we prematurely withdraw our troops we’ll be fighting the insurgents on American soil. Yeah, I can just see it now…chartering hundreds of American Airlines jets to fly over thousands of Iraqi insurgents to the U.S. We’ll also set them up with first-class lodging while we’re at it (psss…the insurgents are fighting us because they don’t want us in their country). RIP Pat Tillman…a great American warrior and San Josean!
Anthony makes an interesting point. The war in Afghanistan was a necessary response to 9/11. The war in Iraq has many possible motives (I personally believe young GW Bush would do anything to take down Saddam Hussein to try to clear his Daddy’s name…George HW Bush, the one-term president who failed to depose Saddam when he had the chance).
Tillman’s death occurred while deployed in Afghanistan. To use his death to somehow “unjustify” our military actions in the Middle East does a disservice to Tillman’s legacy.
What should be under the microscope is the military’s bungling of the message; that it took so long to admit that he died at the hands of friendly fire. Not the motives for our actions in the Middle East, however justifiable they are.
JACK,
THERE YOU GO AGAIN.
A national political rant containing loaded terms such as, “pentagon snow jobs, small-minded empire-obsessed oil-swilling neocons, colluded in fraud, pentagon hitmen, storybook fairytale” and others. I agree that the Tillman
case was badly mishandled but just state the facts please.
If you hate George Bush just come out and say it. Lots of people do.
Don’t be ashamed to say it.
And lastly this is a San Jose blog site not a
National blog, “SAN JOSE INSIDE” remember?
my friend has a great post on pat tillman titled true american heroes
http://joeleonardi.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/true-american-heroes/
mia
Please excuse me, but could someone here tell me what, specifically, does the friendly fire death of Mr. Tillman have to do with the Iraq war?
Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan by friendly fire related to the fog of war – a regrettable happenstance that occurs in war.
What happened afterward regarding the DOD cover-ups was an outrage, and careers should be ended and BCDs handed out by the numbers for it.
This conflation of the bureaucratic rear-guard CYA activity regarding the death of Pat Tillman, and the current overall situation in which we find this nation today in world politics, stands as an insult to both our military and the memories of those who have volunteered, served, and (in some cases) surrendered their very souls for the defense of this nation.
Any fair reading of JVZ’s rant would indicate that he believes that the removal of the Taliban from Afghanistan was not, and is not justified, and was a trumped up war to somehow enrich and empower the EEEEEvil NeoKKKons – which, of course, is an utter crock of (expletive deleted).
#24 “Yeah, I can just see it now…chartering hundreds of American Airlines jets to fly over thousands of Iraqi insurgents to the U.S. “
Anthony, They’re starting to show up already. Have you been paying attention to what’s going on in Michigan and Minnesota these days?
But this is a local blog. So… anyone happen to know how many Saudi funded mosques there are in San Jose? In the bay area at large?
We all know already about Bush’s illegal war for oil, blah blah blah blah blah.
But you must’ve missed the UN reports that ‘dual use’ equipment went missing after Saddam’s ouster. That said ‘dual use’ equipment in the wrong hands could easily be converted to the manufacture of WMD. That unaccounted for high explosive munitions in the wrong hands could have been used in the detonation of WMD. I’ll provide all the links to the UN’s very own reports if you’d like.
Here’s a couple for starters
http://www.politinfo.com/articles/article_2005_06_03_1954.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/12/iraq.nuclear/index.html
You think Saddam was an idiot?
His oil-for-food bribery scheme was working and the embargo efforts against him were weakening.
Don’t tell me that you think for a minute that Saddam would not have reconstituted his WMD program after the sanctions were lifted.
And Tenet, the CIA democratic appointee, along with every other foreign intelligence agency in the world, tells Bush it’s a slam dunk – Saddam had WMD.
Yet somehow the mainstream media never seemed to pick up on these UN reports. Somehow the mainstream news media never really seemed interested in the UN oil-for-food scandal either.
Go figure.
What else is never gets mentioned is that the US is attempting to stand up successful moderate Islamic states in the middle east in an attempt to stem the tide of Islamic extremism.
The idea being that free and prosperous Iraqi and Afghani people will turn away from jihad and extremism and in turn start a sequence of positive dominos in the region.
Just because you hate Bush (and there are plenty of legitimate reasons for that) don’t disparage the mission.
On Iraq and Afghanistan, Bush and the United States are on the right side all. the. way.
Viva Fidel!
http://www.counterpunch.com/tillman03272007.html
Novice—You crack me up. You don’t believe anything unless it comes from the right wing media, but you use government “statistics” to back up your case. And of course we know that the government always tells the truth. Great way to prove your point.
Does anyone remember the sequence of events a few months after 9/11? The Bush administration insisted we go back to “life as usual” go back to watching football, baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie; we’ll handle this. And handle it they did. Afghanistan was justified; but Iraq was always the real target.
When the public started criticizing our government for going into Iraq, we assumed it was to take over the oil fields so all of Bush’s buddies could get rich off of the Iraqi oil; nothing could be further from the truth. The plan was shut down the Iraqi oil wells and give American oil companies a legitimate reason to raise the price of oil here at home; total genius!
Do a Google search for the British Press (They’re not afraid to write the truth) look for: Bush’s’ real reasons for going to war in Iraq. You’ll find information that isn’t controlled by the right or the left.
We Americans have been Bushwhacked, knocked of our horse, and we’re just lying on the ground like Pee-Wee Herman saying, “I meant to do that” not enough people care to acknowledge this fact. It’s as though Bush was using his Jedi powers when he told the country “Go back to you regular routine, we will handle this” The man should have been impeached.
Nothing kills democracy faster than a bunch of complacent and lazy constituents
Iraq has been GW Bush’s version of cowboy justice all along. It was widely reported that in the situation room after the 9/11 attack that Bush suspected Saddam was behind the attacks. When informed that no intel supported that suspicion, Bush told his intel people to find some. He wanted so desperately for Saddam to be involved (so he’d have justification for a counter-strike that his father never made) that, well, you know the rest.
JWII – the numbers don’t support your claim – check out the chart at http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Iraq/Oil.html
As much as the democrats and Sean Penn and Moveon.org and the newsmedia would like you to think it is – it isn’t.
This isn’t about oil.
Iraq is round 2 of a clash of civilizations.
7th century Islamists versus the West.
Islam is the fastest growing demographic on the planet while Europe, Japan, and Russia are in population death spirals.
Islam is not going away and the West (and our children) are going to have to deal with an increasingly Islamic world in one form or another.
Bush and the Neo-Cons believe that establishing successful, tyrant free states in the middle east is the best way to deprive Islamic extremists of oxygen.
From what I can tell, the left’s answer to all this?
Pretend their isn’t a threat. Clinton in the 90’s.
>>>Pretend their isn’t a threat. Clinton in the 90’s.
Posted by Novice
Thursday, March 29 at 11:49 PM
The only threat is nutcase right-wing armchiar commando bloggers like Novice who can’t spell better than the average ten year-old.
Blame it all on Clinton. Sure. Don’t even bother taking responsibility for one’s own actions. Blame it all on someone else. Don’t even mention that the Clinton administration warned the incoming Bush gang that Al-Qaida was the biggest threat facing America, and the washed up Nixon administration has-beens advising him disregarded it and instead went back to the nonsensical Reaganesque missile defense plan. They were more concerned with this then they were with terrorism and Al-Qaida. The Bush folks came into power planning to destroy Iraq anyway. It had nothing to do with 9/11. Do the homework and look it up—it’s all there on the record.
And yet it boggles my mind that there still exist right-wing nincompoops like Novice who will blindly goosestep to whatever the government does. If America did it, then it automatically has to be right. Because America did it.
And then you have other folks like Mr. Rosenthal who call anybody who doesn’t pander to the party line a ‘commie.’
Commie? What the hell decade are you living in? This isn’t 1952 for crying out loud.
Never forget 9/11 he says.
?????
What does 9/11 have to do with invading a sovereign country that was no threat to anybody, who was hated by al-Qaida and had nothing whatsoever to do with those assholes who actually attacked us? It was the equivalent of invading Canada after Pearl Harbor because there might be some Japanese dude sitting on a bus stop somewhere in Calgary.
Like always, the right-wing bloggers think that whoever questions the decisions of the government “hates America.”
You can’t talk any sense to these people, really. It’s impossibe and a waste of time. Folks like Novice and Rosenthal will go to their deathbeds thinking that whatever America does has to be automatically justified because America did it. They will go to their deathbeds thinking that a strategy of mass slaughter, violence and torture will bring democracy to the entire rest of the world outside America. And whoever doesn’t agree with it all “hates America.”
That, in a nutshell, is pathetic.
#34 writes “Blame it all on Clinton. Sure.”
Let’s go to the tape and you can hear it straight from Bill. Pay attention to the second half where Bill details how he refused Sudan’s offer of Bin Laden’s head on a silver platter.
http://www.newsmax.com/clinton2.mp3
Saddam was no threat to anybody? Wow – that’s a whopper!
Sounds like you and the Iranians/Kurds/Iraqi Shia/Kuwaiti’s have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes a ‘threat’.
Moonbat litmus test exit question for you:
Do you think 9-11 was an inside job – a conspiracy orchestrated by US and Israeli agents?
PS. You spelled armchair and impossible wrong.
#34
Amen.
But don’t go too hard on the two mentally unstable rightwing nutjobs you mention.
Novice obviously gets his intellectual depth from Ann Coulter and Fog News, and hero-worships Don Segretti’s band of merry ratf—-ers, like Karl Turdblossom. He would have been one himself if he had been born yet.
Rosenthal, stuck in 1952 (as you say), imagines his heroes Joe McCarthy and Roy M. Cohn still run the country with an iron sledghammer. Hey, does that make him a reactionary “Bircher?”
I find it interesting that not one of the pro-war whiners who have posted here have offered one word of support, understanding or sympathy for the Tillman family, including multi-posters Novice and Rosenthal. Go figure. I guess they are just too damn busy dressing in name brand fatigues and driving around in their planetoid-sized, gas-guzzlin’, gunracked SUVs plastered with made-in-China “Support Our Troops” decals and BushCheney 00 stickers.
Wow the moonbats are in full flight today!
And this one flew in all the way from UMKC. You know “The urban public law school with a small liberal arts feel”.
We are flattered that you’re taking time out to squeeze in a post here at little ole SJI between all your higher learning activities like assigning your students class essays such as “Explain Why President Bush Is A War Criminal” and giving your students extra credit for attending International Answer (who by the way are indeed communists) sponsored ‘peace’ protests.
So parents pay attention, have your college bound kids stick to the sciences and steer clear of the moonbat laden ‘liberal’ arts programs.
General Tried to Warn Bush on Tillman
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070330/tillman-friendly-fire
JWII – couldn’t agree more. Nicely said.
# 36, Rose N Berg
You bring up a good point; this blog started out to be about Tillman. Lets think about having a Sunday Salute sometime soon and meet downtown at Chavez Plaza to give Tillman and all our fallen soldiers in the Bush war a salute @high noon; possibly Easter Sunday? If that’s OK with Novice… This would be an excellent time to pay our respects to those who still feel the power of democracy is worth defending and are willing to give their lives for a cause that has never been equaled in the history of our planet.
“God Bless America”
There is more than one way to defend democracy.
Jack,
Your surgical discription of the state we are in nationally is so real that it’s difficult for some to change from denial to reality.
Honoring the feelings of all that care is what is the best of our country.
A barking dog does not bite. The ones to watch are the ones that only come out in the cover of darkness.
Our village is the prime example of what people can change when their limits of tolerance and confidence has been exhausted.
Hope is the catalyst that we cannot live with out.
Unite and honor every North American Family. My thought is, we sure are in need of much help. When we start to build walls between neighbors, it may be already too late.
We are being forcely carried out to sea. It’s time to throw out the anchors before we lose sight of our home lands.
The Village Black Smith
Did it ever occur to any of you that perhaps the “cover-up” was in the interest of protecting the person or persons responsible for Tillman’s death? No one wants to kill a comrade in arms!! Did it ever occur to any of you that maybe Tillman did something dumb that caused his own death? Dragging up details of his demise isn’t going to bring him back. Jack, what are your real motives? As a confirmed Bush hater, it ain’t your disgust of a lying President – I’m sure you loved Clinton. Remember him? He was convicted of lying…
The Tillman’s appear to be as nutty as Cindy Sheehan. Let the hero rest in peace…
THERE YOU GO AGAIN, NAPPER!
Hey Napper, if you love Bush so much why don’t you just come right out and say it. Just state your own facts please. I see no argument from you other than the dismissive attitude of a well written piece.
From the cover of darkness comes
# 42 DEXTER.
The line you have crossed is one that will define your life forever.
God Help You!
D.O.A.
44 – Yes, all of those possibilities occurred to me. They don’t matter. The truth matters, no matte how ugly it may be.
Nice try, too, bringing Clinton into this. Can’t you guys understand magnitude of scale?? Clinton lied about a personal sexual encounter. He shouldn’t have but it didn’t impact on the country and no one died because of his statement. The same cannot be said for Bush. There is no comparison, but nice try deflecting the real issue.
#46
Actually, Clinton didn’t lie.
Only conservative fools who know nothing, but act like they know everything, say Clinton lied. These are the same fools who say that global warming is a liberal plot, say that Saddam Hussein had WMDs, say that Saddam Hussein supported Al Quaida, and say that Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet.
As is typical for conservatives, they are wrong on all counts, but are to stupid to understand the facts and realize they are wrong. So they continue to be wrong about various subjects, and continually make fools of themselves with their ignorance.
For the record, Clinton was asked if he had sexual relations with Monica. Before the question was asked, the judge defined sexual relations as only intercourse. He said no, and told the truth.
DCCWTF,
You came in stronger than most but then you fell apart like a house of cards.
There’s a pattern developing here.
I post and provide links and documentation to support my position or to disprove the opposing point of view.
All I get in return is “Bush sucks” and the standard overheated leftist rants. At this point it’s clear – the argument is lost.
When this happens repeatedly, rational people will start to examine their beliefs with more and more scrutiny and begin to see the merits in the opponents position.
FWIW this is how I went from voting for Bill Clinton (twice) and supporting the Big Green initiatives to being conservative.
#48 Novice,
Thanks for proving my point in #47. You are a shining example of a conservative know-it-all who is always wrong.
Clinton was being impeached because the Republicans were acting in their own selfish interest, and trying to overthrow the government by removing the elected President. They were upset that they lost the presidential election, and would do anything to damage the country to achieve their goal of removing the President.
Amusingly, the whole Monica episode started because Newt Gingrich, another typical conservative fool, had to sit in the back of Air Force One on a trip. This was not to his liking, so he was able to work with the other fools in the Republican party and shut down the government. So, with nothing to do one Saturday, Clinton and Monica started playing.
In regard to Clinton not being able to effectively go after Bin Laden while he was being impeached, that is entirely the fault of the Republicans. If they were not so incensed that they lost the election twice in a row, and instead actually tried to do something for the good of the country, we might not be in the mess the current crop of conservative fools has now created.
If my son or your daughter had been killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan, Iraq, or pretty much anywhere else, no-one would ever know. The brass would have felt no need to concoct a lie, since our kids are “nobodies” to them…cannon fodder. It is only because of who Pat Tillman was, and the tenacity of his parents, that this story is being told. For that, heads should roll.
I just don’t buy the “if we don’t get them there now, we’ll have to get them here later” line.
Getting Saddam out of power, better still, sending him to Allah, was and is a great idea. Too bad GHW Bush didn’t do it when he had the chance. So, Dubya gets a burr under his saddle and has to make up for the old man’s failure of judgment, or nerve, or whatever it was. In the meantime, old buddy Cheney’s Halliburton, and the Bechtel family get some cherry contracts. What a Nation!
But to try to sell the idea that we’re going to wave a magic wand and turn a country of tribal goat herders into a democracy-loving Christian State just won’t work. It took us several thousands of years to go from goatherders to farmers to industrialized, free, united countries, and we weren’t stuck with a highly reactionary religion in the bargain. Democracy evolved, and it can’t be cloned over there overnight.
The threats are bin Laden, Al Qaeda, the Wahabbi Saudis, and militant Islamists. And if the Sunnis and Shias want to kick the hell out of each other over who should have succeeded Mohammed, let them do it. The more they kill each other, the less energy, time, and munitions they have to sneak over here and take us over, as some on this blog imply they will do if we don’t hammer them in Iraq.
Oh, and I’m neither a Commie nor a Fascist, just a slightly conservative Republican who doesn’t know what the hell he’ll do come November, 2008 when the absentee ballot arrives. Right now it’s Rudy G for me, but the game has just begun. Several hundred million dollars will expose a lot of warts on all the candidates ‘tween now and then.
#46 – Kid Ng. The truth matters?
Around here the truth doesn’t matter. Only Koolaid matters in the Bay Area. Lots and lots of Koolaid.
“… but it didn’t impact on the country and no one died because of his statement.”
Let me get this straight, Clinton is in the process of getting impeached – but that in no way could’ve impacted his job performance, ie the hunt for Bin Laden.
Right.
And then “Bush lied”. Kindly hop in the way-back machine and peruse these quotations from democrat leadership circa 1998-2002:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/LarryElder/2006/05/25/who_thought_iraq_had_wmd_most_everybody
This one sums it up quite nicely:
Former Clinton Director For Defense Policy And Arms Control, National Security Council Staff, Peter Feaver: “How could even the all-powerful Neocons have manipulated the intelligence estimates of the Clinton administration, French intelligence, British intelligence, German intelligence and all the other ‘Co-Conspirators’ who concurred on the fundamentals of the Bush assessment?”.