As I walked the streets of New York the past few days, I visited Fr. Duffy Square, the Theatre District, and the many neighborhoods that make up the immediate downtown, a fascinating crossroads of all that this nation is and can be. I am struck by one simple fact: the presence of police is one of the most reassuring sights, giving the finest sense of well-being imaginable. In bunches of two, three, and four, on horse, car, motor bike, and practically suspended on high wires across Broadway, they console, advise, direct, and even crack a joke or two. “Did you hear the one about the ….” Never mind. They are a presence to enjoy.
The reason I find this so fascinating is because of the current debate in San Jose where some mistaken apologists and a certain group of careless landlords and nightclub owners seem to believe that the police “are” the problem. There are some questions being raised of racial prejudice in the way the police monitor the night scene downtown. “If only the police would go away, sanity and peace would prevail” is the thinking of some of those indulging in this debate ignited by fifty shots fired in the early morning, wounding three. “Perhaps even shoppers would return downtown to augment the Arena patrons and arts and theatre visitors if only the police would lay off.” It now seems that greed and nonsense have intersected.
Just exactly who do these individuals think our police officers are? The SJPD is made of men and women of all colors, reflecting the diversity of our community. They respond to calls for service and enforce the law; they do not conduct random stops to harass.
This matter is one of public safety for those living and working downtown. To surrender to the forces of darkness in the early morning hours, and the landlords who make double the rent with no investment and nary a glance at the problems created by their “tenants,” would be the real injustice.
The anarchy reigning from 11 p.m. until 3 in the morning is cowardly and self-defeating. San Jose cannot stand for its continuation. Sense and common justice must prevail. Those who do not see this simple fact are indeed a big part of the problem. This week’s council vote giving the police chief powers to temporarily close offending clubs is a positive step in the right direction. Now let us hope that the council continues to seek a real solution to the problem as quickly as possible.
If people idolize thugs ( gang members or x- prisoners ), listen to music that glorifies thugs and their illegal, derogatory attutudes toward woman and others, illegal or antisocial thug behavior, dress like thugs, talk like thugs, hang out with thugs, carry weapons like thugs, and threaten others like thugs, use weapons against others like thugs and act like thugs –
Why are the thugs, their supporters and the club owners or others who profit from thugs – surprized that the police and others treat them like a thugs
If people are upset that they are identified as thugs on the basis of their behavior or their association with thugs – well it is easy to not be treated as a thug – don’t act or hang out with thugs or gangs
San Jose’s police are some of the best in the county and to accuse them with vague racist accusitions when no formal complaints have been filed seems to be jumping on the downtown public safety publicity bandwagon and unfair
If there are valid complanits then make them and you will have wide spread support for a change in police behavior or a change in the police review process if necessary
There is no civil right that protects thug behavior
Thugs are not welcome and the residents of San Jose have a right to not have those that behave as thugs in the downtown and throughout the city on the basis of their behavior
We should clearly put out a sign ” Thugs, their supporters and those who profit from them are not welcome in San Jose ”
We do need more police downtown. It is great to see them on horseback and bikes but I don’t see enough of them. The city council finally got tough and it’s about time. They should also get tough with what’s happening with the Mayor, he’s sure gone underground, does he still act as mayor? Terrible shame that the money bought another election and all the propositions lost. The money should be illiniated from all politics and good to free TV and weekly debates then we would find out who is lying and who isn’t.
Call me crazy, but if you aren’t doing anything wrong than you shouldn’t care if the police stop you.
Yeah your right 123…
no has ever been mistakenly harrassed or mistreated by the police. Enjoy your days in Mayberry!
How can you compare SJ and NY??? I can’t believe the naiveness in that comparison. The police in NY are on a completely different level and so is the city. Nowhere in NYC do the NYPD crowd in groups like they do on Santa Clara on a weekend night. Nor does that city’s leadership believe its necessary, even though they are not the safest city in America. Sure, we are the safest because of this overpowering police presence, but it kills SJ’s attempt to have any sort of diverse nightlife.
Does NYC have a 2AM shutdown? Does NYC have police hovering over every nightclub? Does NYC close streets at 2AM to drive traffic outside the city!??! Geeez, I’ve lived in SJ for 10 years now and can’t believe the bass-akwards way things go on here. How can you promote downtown when the only thing driving business downtown is constantly being beaten down by its leaders and protectors?
So if there is some shooting outside of PF Changs, are we going to give the Police Chief the right to shut down restaurants? If San Jose is ever going to become a true big city, we’ll have to act like one. Big Cities aren’t big because of their population, but because of its ability to serve and attract people from all over the area. SJ is “bigger” that SF, but is it? I don’t think so. If you ask someone in a foreign country if San Jose or San Francisco is bigger, which are they going to say?
CP, you just don’t seem to get it. The reason why PF Chang’s won’t be shut down is not because it’s a restaurant, it’s because shoot outs don’t happen at PF Chang’s. They don’t happen at E & O or Sonoma Chicken. It isn’t by happenstance that the shooting occured at the Ambassador.
The bouncer that was shot outside the Ambassador said he wasn’t surprised and that being shot wasn’t a big deal. You think if a PF Chang’s hostess was shot in the stomach she’d say the same thing?
Life is not fair and innocent people are mistreated
Racism , discrimination, mistakenly stopping innocent people, harassment , mistreatment by police etc and now homeland security searches of people who are not terrorists etc does happen
As well as thugs, thieves, murderers, those that rob or assault people many times are not always caught or punished for their illegal behaviors against innocent people also happens .
An interesting recent example of a reason for people to not associate with thugs is – the woman in Berkeley who frequently bragged about her thug friends and threatened others that she could get her thugs friends to threaten or assault them
The night before she was killed she met her thug friend and handled the illegal gun that the next night killed her.
She made the phone calls that resulted in her thug friend coming with his gun to assist her after she was harassed on the street. She was shot and killed by her thug friend who shot from a distance into a crowd which she was part of on the street.
She was partially responsible for her own unfortunate death at the hands of a thug she knew by the illegal gun she handled.
Interesting example of why – Thugs, their supporters, hangers on and those who profit from them are not welcome in San Jose “
Life is not fair – innocent people are treated badly by both thugs and the police but we have a police complaint process, thugs don’t always get caught for their crimes and people who have thugs as friends glamorize thugs, and hang out with thugs sometimes get shot and killed or mistaken by police as thugs.
I fell compelled to note that I don’t recall ever seeing a massive police presence outside establishments like the Flying Pig Pub, Katie Bloom’s, the Cactus Club, and The Usual. Unfortunately, those places are all gone now.
RGC… Ok, bad example. Can we just act like a “Big City”?
Can you address my other points, or do you agree with me?
Rob4127,
Those places had massive police outside. And thier customers stopped coming because of the police state environment.
Other cities use television cameras to reduce the number of visable police officers at local business while having them in the area to respond to problems.
The tv cameras if installed correctly and of high quality also have a record all the area activities to review later and can be used to document crime and identify all the participants as well as confirm or refute police complaints The costs can be shared between the city and the club owners since everyone will benefit and the additional security cost could be added to the cover charges ( 25 – 50 cents security fee) as done at airports
Large groups of visable police officers unless they are needed while they can deter problems can also as has been pointed out create possible problems or discourage customers ( i.e police state environment )
A lot of lame people on this blog…when was this a race issue? Its a police tactics issue.
Police should not be part of my night out in downtown. I’m a young professional, I go downtown about 2 times a month and I ALWAYS have to deal with the police presence outside of the bars and continues till I jump on the freeway due to the road blocks.
I honestly would visit downtown more often if I felt welcomed at night. I have a large network of friends and they all feel the same way. We take our business to Santana Row and even SF just for the great night life they offer.
Its sad, especially when we have a great downtown. Sure our downtown needs a little work, but it definitely loses its charm with hostile police officers and patrol lights to welcome you when I come out of the restaurants/lounge/bars.
“The Christmas Song” for Downtown San Jose
Gangsters crouching as they open fire
Bullets ripping past your nose
Racist claims being sung by a liar
And folks dressed up like pimps and ho’s
Everybody knows, a handgun and some hollow points
Help to rectify a slight
Shots ring out and blood starts to flow
The neighborhood won’t sleep tonight
They know the cops are on their way
With chalk in hand to mark the bodies where they lay
And every mother’s child about to die
Will hope paramedics really know how to fly
And so, I’m offering this simple phrase
To those who catch a bullet in the head
Although its been said many times, many ways
Merry Christmas, you’re dead
As much as a hate to disagree with you, racial profiling does happen. Pulling over everyone that “looks” like a gangbanger is ridiculous. HEY, I know! Let pullover everyone who looks like a terrorist! How about we pullover everyone who looks like a serial killer! even better lets pull over everyone who looks like they belong to the trench coat mafia!
everyone loses when we give up those rights.
I’m with Ed Rast, place cameras in high crime areas.
This is a topic that I don’t even think you (when I say you I mean the media and most bloggers on here) or mainstream (white) San Jose have any idea of this serious problem. Profiling is a long known fact this discussed and despised in the black community for years now.
First of all I would like to say as an African American living in San Jose driving downtown at night is a no no (everyone black knows that) you would most definately be pulled over searched, detained and harrassed. What’s so interesting about this issue is that if you go to predominately black cities such as Detroit, Washington D.C, Chicago, Atlanta, Brooklyn, Philadelphia even in Oakland (where the crime rate is in many cases several times of what San Jose is) you would never see this type of behavior or abuse by the police department.
I am just absoluteley appalled when I go downtown to a black club and when you walk outside it’s a scene out of Beirut or Baghdad with police barricade and roadblocks and police in riot gear, DO THEY EVEN KNOW HOW INTIMIDATING THAT CAN BE, what ever good time you had is know gone because you know have to face a very abusive and angry egotistical SJPD as if there were some terroist act that just happeneded. It also very embarrassing (I had my brother and his family in from Atlanta) and we went out dancing and we were treated like criminals yelled at by the police and rushed and made to walk out our way to our awaiting vehicles.
There first questions was; “Is that bad here where the police have to use those type of tactics”? my reply was this is suppose to be America’s safest big city” as it proclaims. Unfortunately that tag, catch phrase, marketing ploy for the City’s Chamber of Commerce comes at a very very stiff price for African American’s residing in San Jose. As someone who has literally resided around the world as well as the United States having spent 10 years in the military and haviing lived the sailors life of partying, clubs and bars, San Jose has to be the worst enriornment for African Americans to have entertainment not just in the U.S. but the entire world because of the overwhelming abuse and harrassment the the SJPD. NO CITY AND I REPEAT AND REPEAT IT LOUD NO CITY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH TREATS THE CLUB AND ENTERTAINMENT PATRONS LIKE THIS (AFRICAN AMERICAN) WHO MAKE UP LESS THAN 4% OF THE POPULATION.
Again, I have lived in cites such asAtlanta, Chicago, Mississippi, Dallas, Orlando, Sacramento, Oakland, Las Vegas and San Diego, Japan and Europe in many case these cities where predomintely minority or black and had more poverty and more social challenges, but still did not resort to these tacts. Is SJ that bad were we need to treat our citizens this way? If it is and successful why don’t Detroit, Wash DC, Atlanta, Baltimore where SJ’s crime rate is a fraction of theses cities resort to this? I have never witnessed anything like this. Even more telling, this the financial abuse, if you and your team would just go out there and see police camped out for 2 hours DOING NOTHING BUT WAITING FOR THE CLUB TO END.
They just sit there for around 12:00 to 2:00AM doing nothing. How much does this cost the city taxpayers of San Jose, how much of this ridiclious overtime is being abused by the SJPD they do NOTHING BUT SIT THERE FOR 2 HOURS, ATTEMPTING TO INCITE INCIDENTS FOR JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS. How much of this money could go to our school or after school programs for kids where the money would be better served.
I and know one I know that is black would dare to spend a dime in downtown SJ anymore, it’s been like this for sometime, it’s about time someone has brought light on this issue. Most African Americans in SJ go to Oakland an SF for entertianment where they know they won’t be harrassed after having good time and police blows their night.
The only lesson being learned:
New Jersey is to New York
San Jose is to San Francisco
Many little things contribute to a large problem.
Ironically, the relatively small number of black people in San Hozay constributes to disparate treatment that may exist. I have a few black friends, and every once in a while ask them “where are all the black people in San Hozay?” Where do they live, work, shop, etc. ? A black person is a rare sight anywhere in San Hozay.
The gangsta rappers and hip hoppers and NBA thugs set new dress codes, and many non-thugs adopt that style of dress. WHY? It’s like painting a target on your back. And you’re surprised when a cop mistakes you for a thug, when you have all the accoutrements?
The herd-‘em-outta-downtown policy adopted by a prior chief is clearly causing problems. But who can yell discrimination or profiling? They treat everyone like a suspect, and run ‘em out at 2:00 a.m. Not a good thing. Drives people away. Needs changing ASAP, not some long drawn out Cindy Chavez “process” with studies and focus groups and all that crap..
The City knows where the few bad places are, and needs to concentrate on them, and leave the law abiding places and people alone. I think it was Joe McNamara who devised the policy of putting large numbers of cops in what is now SoFA to get rid of the whores. A uniformed officer would follow a suspected hooker (and she almost always was one). Result, no “John” would pull up for a “date” So, the money dropped, and the whores left.
We need that huge presence at The Ambassador, now BeeHive( probably The Baghdad next month) to harrass the hell out of the gangstas that frequent it, and send them back to Oaktown, or wherever the hell else they’re from. And at whatever few other places attract a predominately thug crowd. Run THEM outta dowtown, not the law-abiding partygoers of all races who are downtown.
Heaven knows we don’t need Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton dropping in to chastise us.
The San Jose Police Department takes a lot of bull for profiling. I don’t believe they profile. If a bad guy fits a discription of a bad guy then maybe they should talk. Race or color shouldn’t matter and I don’t think that it does in San Jose.
I think that San Jose is probably the least color/race/country of origin concious in the greater Bay area.
Is David Duke posting as finfan? Your contempt for black people (and the ACLU) is transparent. Counseling is in order. Good luck to you.
FinFan,
based on your comments. You must be white.
You ever try getting a badge number to place a complaint during riot control tactics…you get arrested. Don’t be stupid. Hey, why do you disguise your identity? I tend to believe people who don’t hide behind cyber space, reminds me of a “sucker punch,” have a back bone and open your eyes, you are pretty ignorant or its easier for you to turn your head the other way. Profiling exists.
If you want to learn “the Lesson of New York” read up on the failed mayoralty of David Dinkins, the City’s first black mayor. He won the 1989 election after defeating Ed Koch in the Democratic primary and beat Rudy Giuliani in the General election, no surprise there since NYC leans heavily Democratic.
However, despite all the “Georgeous Mosaic” campaign rhetoric campaign crap we heard from Dinkins, his administration was a disaster. Read up on the Crown Heights riot of 1991 or the Korean Deli boycott of 1990.
After 4 years of Dinkins, there was a strong perception that the city was ungovernable and thugs were out of control.
In 1993, Giuliani ran on a law-an-order platform and beat the hapless Dinkins in the general election. Giuliani, a Republican, supported NYPD and the result is the scenario described in Tom McEnery’s post above. Giuliani’s successor Bloomberg, to his credit, has kept things going [mostly] in the right direction where law enforcement is concerned.
Perhaps it’s time to get Rudy out here to deal with this down town mess.
When every political idea one holds near and dear has been proven to be hogwash there’s little left for a liberal to do to an opponent other than to conjure up a demon, create a false and discrediting association, then tie him to it. Poor Gus and George are probably too afraid to do a little investigating into the history of the “profiling” hoax, afraid they will discover that skirting the law and misleading the herd are specialties of those scheming fanatics at the ACLU.
Prior to anyone gasping at the thought of “racial profiling” or tearing-up over the sorrowful tale of a working man stopped for “driving while black,” the federal government initiated a drug interdiction program called Operation Pipeline. The goal: provide local and state police the enforcement tools necessary to become major players in the War on Drugs. One of the tools was a drug-smuggler profile, a checklist of who, what, when, and where to look for when targeting drug smugglers. The list included things such as rented or nondescript cars, favored routes, dress and hairstyle, and a number of other things, including race—as it absolutely pertained to the particular drug being smuggled.
Another tool was the pretext stop, something as old as law enforcement itself, but now fine-tuned for drug enforcement. Vehicles fitting the drug-smuggler profile would be stopped for observed violations (often speeding on the interstate) and, if additional profile elements were observed (state to state travel without briefcase or luggage, ignition key only on key ring, etc.), a step-by-step investigation would be initiated leading-up to a lawful search and seizure of narcotics. A strict following of search and seizure laws was as critical a component of the program as was any other.
Operation Pipeline was a huge success, something which guaranteed its coming to the attention of the ACLU. Case after case was tried, appeal after appeal was heard, and at every level of the justice system the tactics used and the convictions obtained in Operation Profile were upheld by the courts.
When lawful police work yields results not to its liking, trust the ACLU to abandon the law and revert to the tactics of its Trotskyite heritage. Seizing on the disproportionate participation and capture of minorities in drug smuggling, these champions of liberty rallied the race hucksters, university morons, addlebrained journalists, and eager-to-be-a-victim minorities, and foisted upon the American public the hoax we now know as “racial profiling.” Suddenly, the common, garden-variety police enforcement stop was an occasion for sociological scrutiny as well as the psychological evaluation of the police mentality. Not each individual stop, mind you—no, the ACLU knew it couldn’t risk its propaganda campaign to a case-by-case examination, but enforcement stops in general, you know, a sphere large and imprecise enough to allow generalizations and preconceived notions to be sold to the public like laundry soap. And what the public bought, that it is race rather than lawfully-determined probability that attracts or repels police attention, is absolute nonsense. It isn’t true when blacks instead of whites are arrested at a disproportionate rate for dealing crack on the street corner for the same reason it isn’t true when whites instead of blacks are arrested at a disproportionate rate on Wall Street.
Though “racial profiling” had been made into a household word, nothing had really changed except the perception of what it was that police were doing and thinking. Blacks were still robbing and killing at rates unseen amongst any other group; Hispanics were still filling the ranks of violent street gangs; Whites were still most likely to shoot up the workplace, and Arabs were still volunteering to become human bombs. Only now, under the hysteria over profiling, the onus was on the cops to try to do their important work AND prove to everyone that America really is that fairy tale world where everyone is the same.
Next time you read about the rising murder rate in Oakland or Richmond or San Francisco, or hear about a gang-related shooting at a Quinceanera, or see an elderly nun wavering unsteadily as she is searched by airport security, pause for a moment, think of how things really should be, then remember to give some credit for this insanity to the ACLU.
I was right. You’re white.
Frustrated WhiteMan/FinFan,
You just don’t get it and you’ve obviously never heard of probable cause for pulling someone over. I guess, in your book, solid probable cause for an arrest exist when someone is black or brown.
Just remember, the ACLU loves you.
George, the depth of your analysis of this issue is truly inspiring. As you condemn and accuse the police of drawing conclusions about behavior based on race, you turn around and make a conclusion about my race based upon nothing but my words. How do you do that? Are you psychic, or perhaps so brilliant that you know what people of the various races think about every single issue?
I think we can rule out the possibility that you are brilliant; you’ve had ample opportunity to mount a respectable challenge to my opinions yet have done little more than call me names. Gee, I sure hope you were educated in private schools, for I hate to think that any of my tax money was spent teaching you to hurdle insults whenever challenged to think.
As for you, Gus, if your lips and index finger aren’t too sore from moving along as you read my long post, go back and read it again. “Stopping a car for speeding” is probable cause, as is “lawfully-determined probability,” which might describe an officer stopping someone running from a crime scene.
Both of you can go ahead and write me off as a racist. I don’t really care what you think, and besides, that’s a much more comforting conclusion than for the two of you to have to do some real thinking. After all, I wouldn’t want to see you guys strain yourselves.
FinFan:
Some posts are so devoid of merit that they do not merit a comment. Your comments on this topic fall into that category.
I wish you the best in Utopia.
FinFan,
If you are you brilliant, explain who called you a racist?
We called you a white man, with no idea what it is to be harrased/profiled as a black/brown man downtown SJ.
Pay attention and open your eyes.
Gus,
I provided enough specific information about Operation Pipeline and how it relates to what is now called racial profiling to merit more than a comment from anyone with an opposing opinion. Anyone who read the post knows that, and thus realizes that, once again, the only comments devoid of anything on this site are those posted by you name-callers.
#16,
Point 1: Profiling is not “a fact,” it is a skillfully-packaged propaganda tool, designed by the ACLU to shift the focus away from black criminality (a matter of statistics) and onto the thought processes of the nation’s police officers (a matter of belief). The profiling issue arose not from the collective experiences of African-American citizens, but from the collective frustration of ACLU lawyers faced with an epidemic of black, drug dealing defendants. When the courts repeatedly reaffirmed police drug enforcement tactics in Florida, the ACLU turned to a social strategy—racial profiling. That widespread profiling is believed in the black community is not surprising: it is a community that has been conditioned to look for someone else to blame. That profiling is widely believed by the American public is primarily due to the work of bleeding heart reporters undeterred by the absolute lack of substantive proof of systemic profiling.
Point 2: Though it is easy to say that a black person would “most definitely” be pulled-over in San Jose at night, it is simply not true. Watch as any of the many rap concerts empty out of the Arena and you’ll see hundreds, if not thousands, of black drivers exiting the area unmolested by law enforcement. That said, for those persons frequenting the problem nightclubs, the chances of an encounter with the police does increase—as does their chance of being a victim of violence at the hands of a black hoodlum.
Point 3: It is unfortunate that the interaction between the police and club-goers has come to this, but it’s hard to blame the cops when you have armed thugs circulating amongst even the best of people.
Point 4: The tactics to which you object are not used because it is as bad here as it is in every other big city; they are used to keep things in San Jose from getting as bad as they are elsewhere. Of the 4% of our local population that is black, only a tiny fraction engage in the kind of criminality we are experiencing downtown, which is why our overall crime rate is so low. It is up to our police to jail our homegrown thugs and send the others back where they came from.
Point 5: Quit worrying about the cops getting overtime. If you believe your taxes will fall by trimming the police presence, make your case at City Hall. However, if your complaint is based on resentment, get over it. Jesse Jackson makes a lot more money “doing nothing” than do any fifty cops outside the clubs, yet I don’t hear black people complaining about that.
Point 6: If you have proof that a police officer tried to incite something, file a formal complaint. Otherwise, try not to let their presence annoy you. If you can put up with the vile incivility of the hip hop experience, you can probably learn to tolerate the presence of uniformed authority.
Point 7: If “most African Americans” go to Oakland or SF for their entertainment, how is it that San Jose is filled with black club-goers? Who the hell is doing all that shooting, and who are they shooting at? The problem is real; your anger is misguided.
We all know Finfan is Dale Warner…. Or is it David Duke?
George,
What I wrote was that both of you “can go ahead and write me off as a racist.” What prompted this offer was Gus posing the question: “Is David Duke posting as finfan?”… and then his accusing me of having contempt for black people.
In addition, the accusatory manner in which you conclude “you must be white” and “I was right, you’re white” aren’t going to fool anyone. You make conclusions about race without evidence, and you demonstrate a hostility that suggests real prejudice.
These things more than justify my choice of words.
By the way, I notice that you’ve yet to defend any of your strongly held beliefs. I don’t care what color you are, your arguments are pathetic.
Dale Warner.. you shouldnt be so defensive and aggressive… lighten up.
We all know you like black people. In fact I think I heard you say one time, my best friend is black.
Your choice of words are telling.
For the betterment of all who read this board, will someone challenge FinFan, enlighten us, and take his arguments apart point by point?
No?
Then how about challenging 1 single thing he’s said?
Still no?
Can’t have an honest discussion?
Can’t wage an argument based on merit?
Not a problem – just accuse your opponent of being a racist. Page 1 in the liberal playbook.
The argument is lost as soon as you reach for the race card, or the hitler card, or any of the other cards that are at the very top of the liberal ‘deck’.
BTW – will the so-called ‘moderator’ of this board kindly wake up?
Hi posters #30 & #32, please be advised that I always use my real name when I post. I do not hide behind false names like you cowards do.
And I have never identified my friends by their race.
Clearly, posters #30 & #32 are hard core liars, afraid to admit their identities or provide evidence of their hateful remarks. What a shame that they can slander without telling us who they are.
Dale,
FinFan is Rowen on a mixture of Prozac and Viagra.
Burping from the grave!
Well folks, there’s only one way to settle this: a shootout in front of The Ambassador.
Would somebody please ask the SJPD to clear the streets?
Dale,
I am curious that in post number 12 the theme of Liar is uesd.
and in post number 26 evidence is asked for.
Your themes are very closely aligned with finfan.
Are you sure that you are not finfan… you guys sound A LOT alike.
hmmmm