Those of you who aren’t quite sure what the San Jose Downtown Association (SJDA) is talking about when they promote the “24-Hour City” need go no further than the San Pedro Square/Market Street public parking facility. Use it over any weekend and you’ll find out. For the full effect, park on an upper floor and use the stairways to go between your car and the street.
First of all, your car will be plastered with glossy color handbills from nightclubs in the area catering to barely-legal-drinking-age males on the prowl. You will be enticed to frequent nightclub members of the SJDA such as the Taste Ultra Lounge, Club Cuccini and Vivid where they have events like Risqué Night and Hot, Wet and Wild College Coeds. No matter that the city parking facility prohibits such advertising; you will have piles of these racy handbills shoved under your windshield wipers and in your door windows by some of the upstanding members of the SJDA.
If you dare, take a little walk around the nearest block or two between midnight and 2 a.m. You can tour the area around the old Ambassador Club, now occupied by the Miami Beach Club, the scene of numerous shootings over the past few years. Travel around the block down Almaden Avenue to Carlysle Street, scene of last Monday morning’s 2 a.m. “hit and run” vehicular homicide after a fight between the driver and the victim who had been attending a nightclub event touted on one of those glossy handbills.
Head east on Santa Clara Street and back around the corner north on San Pedro Street to the parking facility, dodging the discarded broken beer bottles, food wrappers, pools of vomit and urine, and streams of cars with cranked-up subwoofer boomboxes. Climb the stairs, avoiding more young men urinating against the stairwell walls and around the edges of the car park, back to your car that has been covered with another set of handbills like the ones you discarded earlier.
The next morning, take a tour of the parking facility. Thousands of those glossy “Barely-Legal Blonde Surferchick Wet T-shirt Mudwrestling” handbills blowing around, more broken beer bottles, discarded cans and wrappers and the acrid smell of an incredibly dirty public toilet will greet you. I would recommend that you stay out of the stairwells because the puddles of urine and broken glass are impossible to avoid. Don’t be concerned about the fact that none of this gets cleaned up. The Downtown Association, its nightclub members and the management of the parking facility aren’t, so why should you? And, no, they won’t be cleaning it up and you will still smell the weekend activity on Wednesday.
Welcome to the 24-Hour city, San Jose Downtown Association style.
#1 Downtown Business Owner
I have been living in the area and using the Market Street/San Pedro Square car park every weekend for seven years and it’s like I describe it all the time. The stairwells can be especially disgusting all weekend long as they do not clean them until Monday morning when they usually remove the glass and papers but not the smell. I am not blaming every business downtown or everyone who visits downtown. I am seeing the problem in the context of the the nightclubs who obviouly cater to young males with these stripjoint-type events. Is this the 24-hour downtown that the citizens of San Jose want? We have great restaurants, bars, music clubs, opera, theater, symphony, cinema etc. downtown. We don’t need the problems these nightclubs bring and would be so much better off without them.
I agree with #1. I have been frequenting downtown for over 10 years. I also, on occasion, go to Santana Row, SF or other locales for entertainment. I enjoy going to downtown San Jose because for those of us in our 20’s and 30’s there are a variety of options. Jack, you may not like the glossy fliers, and frankly, I don’t like my car being plastered by them either. But, 1) that is not the SJDA, it is the promoters trying to get people to the parties that they throw on any given night; and, 2) the title’s of the parties and pictures on the fliers are used, surprise, surprise, to get one’s attention. Welcome to marketing to young men looking for a place to meet girls, 21st Century style. These are not “strip-joint type events.” And, they are certainly not catering to barely legal males…. rather, they want guys with money in their pockets who will pay the $10 to $20 coverage charge and $8 a drink. When you go to Fahrenheit, or Vault, or Taste, it is generally a fun environment, and security is on top of their game at all times.
What you are describing are issues that come with having a city downtown. It is not a scene uncommon in cities all around the country that have vibrant entertainment zones. Except, we have more police than other areas I have been to around the country. It needs to be a destination, and I am glad that we have had new options of late, including a Perfect Finish, Koji Sake Lounge and Morton’s, to add to the wide range of bars, restaurants, lounges and clubs.
The way I see it, the underage kids loitering causes an impression of a much more dangerous, unfriendly downtown, particularly to the older generation, than actually exists. If loitering causes security issues, then I agree with SJDA’s work with the police department in dealing with that issue. Downtown is headed in a good direction and, as we add downtown residents, I look forward to the new restaurants and other businesses that will be coming soon. (and, no, I don’t own any business downtown)
Jack,
I agree that the garages have issues. And I agree that these three clubs you have listed are a major issue downtown. The city should just pay them to close and not allow nightlcubs of that size to reopen.
And I agree that there are a lot well managed restaurant, bars and entertainment venues downtown. Just seems like the good venues get blamed for the issues of the few bad venues.
#2, the quality of restuarants downtown is far greater than the quality of restuarants (pretend nightclubs) in Santana Row. Problem is that the city, RDA and downtown association do almost nothing for the small businesses downtown. While the Santana Row spends hundreds of thousands a year marketing a destination.
I also agree with Mr. Van Zandt…Downtown is a mess! The city needs to re-examine their night club policy…These clubs bring ZERO to the downtown area and its time for them to go!
1 – Jack’s description closely matches my own experiences downtown. And I am not talking about just once, but every time I go downtown. The urine stench is disgusting, the garages look like dumps, and it is generally unpleasant. Your attitude seems to be one of denial which is why the conditions exist. If the local business owners would make some noise at City Hall and the SJDA then something would get done. Until then I will rarely visit downtown and will spend my $$ elsewhere.
I concur with #1 when saying the condition is vastly overstated in your post today. Yes, the core problem does exist, but the way you have written it, it sounds like a sci fi post apocalypse scenario and that is not the downtown I frequent almost every night.
The garages are cleaned to a higher degree than you state and will be even more so in the coming months as a new focus has been put on the topic of “clean and secure parking”.
Yes, the clubs do hire kids to paper the cars. They are seeking to urge the over-stimulated hormonal crowd to choose their club over another. We aren’t going to regulate hormones out of the downtown or anywhere else.
It is an urban center and, though far from perfect, it is safer and cleaner than most other downtowns. We had a serious cruising problem a year ago, and now with actions that is all but gone. New problems have crept up, but those too are being addressed. Give downtown some room to be a lively place. It is easy to pick on any extreme activity, but that is what youth does. Let San Jose be a town be for more than the upper middle class. Give our younger citizens a place in our city too.
#3 My Van Zandt,
I agree 100% with your opinion…enough said.
Thugs, drunks, pools of vomit, urine, Chuck Reed is the mayor, Ron Gonzales never would have allowed the downtown to fall to this level.
I guess it is not only historic buildings that get “demolished” in San Jose, but fine public servants.
If you want a country club atmosphere, join one. Don’t be surprised when they all go to bed at 11, though. Be happy things are going on down there. It’s the same as any downtown. Do you think people are turned away from Vegas, where promoters hand you much more explicit fliers every ten feet? No, because you can easily shrug it off. Do you think San Francisco is without its public urination? Absolutely not, but it still seems to be quite the destination. We whine and complain about how downtown is dead, but then we think we can pick and choose what life eventually comes? Go back to Santana Row.
Look guys, it could be worse. Just look at at downtown Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, Chicago Loop and Oakland-no nightlife! Look at Minneapolis, Portland, SF’s South of Market- nightlife with problems of fighting, drugs, urinating, killings and sleazy girls. That’s the norm for active, vibrant downtown. Yes, we can improve on it with gentle police work, not the “shoo” type that kicks people out at 1am. I rather have the vibrant downtown with problems than dead, quiet downtown with homeless problem! Get over it!
Andrew #8
Thank you for your post.
You are right about the cruising problem. It has improved because of action. The same could happen with the nightclub situation if the will is there.
I agree that our younger citizens need places to go too, but what kind of places? There are numerous well-run music clubs downtown as well as all the restaurants, decent bars, billiards, concerts, sports events etc. What else do they need?
I hope that you are right about the garages getting better in the future. I don’t know about the rest of the ones around downtown because I don’t use them, but the San Pedro Square multistory has a long way to go. I know that there is a plan to start charging $5 to park there weekend evenings after 10pm. I don’t know if that will have any effect on the problem but it may be worth a try. I’d like to hear what others think about it.
Like you, I want all of the problems addressed and rectified and the downtown—-my home—-to be lively, fun, clean, safe and secure for citizens of all ages at all hours.
Why would I pay $5 to park in a stinking (literally) garage that I don’t even like parking in for free? Put the charge in place and I will 5 more reasons why won’t go downtown.
Dear Jack,
So I take it you won’t be at the Killers of Comedy tour (featuring “talent” from the Howard Stern Show) at Vivid Saturday night?
Downtown business owner – your ” one problem night in five years and that means we have problems every night. ”
summarizes the difference between public ( your potential customers ) and Downtown Association’s perception of downtown public safety and problems
Your are right – downtown does not have problems every night but wrong – about once in 5 years
There are problems on many weekends and at large events The combination of both Downtown Association denying that problems exist while not adequately addressing solutions and Police overreaction drives many customers away to other areas or cities
Downtown San Jose to be successful must use multiple different customer focused districts to target and seperate potential conflicting customers – families/dating, gay, single clubs, college students, arts/theater, sports entertainment etc
Old Ambassador Club, now occupied by the Miami Beach Club is in wrong district, so predictably conflicts with San Pedro’s family and dating customers,
Santana Row is successful since they target families / higher income single dating customers and encouraging businesses that target their desired customers while discouraging or not renting to others which downtown does not
If you go to San Francisco you can easily identify many different customer focused districts
# 12 or others who believe the norm for active, vibrant downtown business is San Francisco’s South of Market and other city’s club areas with fighting, drugs, urinating, killings and sleazy girls problems are wrong
#12 -is only looking at 1 of many active, vibrant downtown districts that San Francisco has Union Square’s theater / retail, Sutter Street’s arts / restaurants, Chinatown, North Beach’s Italian restaurants or Embarcadero’s stores / restaurants that all exist in downtown
Property owners, business districts or zoning restrictions prevent seeing Chinese retail stores or restaurants next to North Beach Italian restaurants or South of Market clubs next to Union Square theaters like San Jose which without restrictions makes makes downtown worst for both businesses and customers.
San Jose has no planning or zoning, business district or property owners restrictions on where business can locate resulting in conflicting businesses next to each other .
Business have not voluntarily restricted or implemented good property management or business district practices to put like type businesses in designated like type business districts so everyone is more successful
San Francisco also has active, vibrant neighborhood districts like Fillmore, Marina, South Beach, Castro, Clement, Sunset districts, whose business districts both target like type businesses to serve targeted customer group
You are either part of the problem or part of the solution and many San Jose business practices and locations are part of the problem like San Pedro Square and Miami Beach Club customers
Customers go where the businesses are so if you have potential “combat zone club” problem customers locate the businesses that target them them in controlled highly regulated business districts with lots of required cameras and lights to quickly identify the troublemakers and take them off the streets
doubtful 14,
the five dollars will be used for cleaning, repairs and extra security and police on weekends. all of the above could take care of the issues.
Jack:
I have parked in the Market Street lot every day for the last 20 years. It has progressively gotten worse through the years and yes, on Mondays it a disaster of the proportions you describe, every week, not just once in a while. It is now the worst I have ever seen. The lot itself has gotten worse with the City maintaining it at an ever decreasing rate, the new payment machines frequently not working correctly, the arms not going up to let you out. It is just a sad state of affairs. After 20 years downtown we are just waiting for our lease to expire to get out of here.
Downtown fans don’t need to worry too much. Reed’s plans for a new Mountain View-sized downtown on North First and a smaller new downtown on the Flea Market site will provide alternate locations for a lot of activities.
#12 Fed up Blogger in SJ has a good point. About 6 years ago some friends and I went up to SF for some “quality nightlife.” On the way to the venue (1015 Folsom to be exact) we passed a number of homeless people, adult bookstores (very sleasy!), and people drunk (or high) out of their minds. After our night was over, we were pleasantly surprised to find our car with broken windows, all items inside stolen (if any of you see an SF bumb wearing a black leather jacket, listening to cool Down-Tempo music let me know). That was one cold drive back down 280. We’ve also encountered urine and fecal matter in many an SF parking garage. And the SF homelessness…another story for another blog. The point is loud and clear; DSJ could be a lot worse. But as Mr. Van Zandt has stated, downtown can still be improved and transformed into a more desirable destination for all to visit.
The problem here is that people are thinking of this as a San Jose problem. This is an issue of modern American culture. Policing it just makes downtown more uncomfortable while not changing the demographics of the clientel at all. As has been said numerous times, create areas for EVERYONE. Stop fighting over the same small area and then we’ll all start to enjoy our very real and very fun downtown lifestyle.
Everything you have over stated is just a plan exaggerated lie. Yes any busy entertainment zone has issues. But you are using the same tired argument of the police which treats downtown as though every night will end up like the Mardi Gras Riot (of 50 hoodlums) of about 5 years ago. Meaning, one problem night in five years and that means we have problems every night.
And if this is really the case; why don’t you get the media on board to document this. The media loves to ruin downtown and if this was true they would be all over it on the news and in the mercury.
These things do happen. But not at all to the extent you are portraying. And the city and parking staff do a great job cleaning and managing the parking garages.
If a few nightclubs are papering the cars with these tired boring promotions; use your police to enforce the law and give them fines. But quit blaming everyone downtown and everyone who visits downtown for your over blown lies.
Jack
Your description of our 24 hour Downtown is WHY most people go – Anywhere But Downtown – but frequently go to Santana Row, Los Gatos, Campbell, Palo Alto, San Francisco, Willow Glen, The Almenda, Japantown, – just ask Single Gal
So why would anyone except another bar or redevelopment invest in downtown?
Santana Row was NEVER possible in downtown when it was built or today See today’s Mercury article on Santana Row’s success
Downtown’s problems can only be fixed by downtown businesses and residents even after as billions of taxes and years have shown
Downtown Association is major part of problem and downtown’s failure after 6 pm and bar owners are not interested in changing
We will not see acceptable livable downtown until we have large number of middle and upper income residents who insist that downtown be cleaned up
Most people will continue to go elsewhere and leave downtown after 6 pm to the gangs, drunks, thugs, losers and bar owners
See you, ABD (Anywhere But Downtown) – brought to you by Downtown Association
I agree with you Jack. I stay out of downtown in the evenings if I’m not at a play, dinner, a movie, or at an event at the HP. I refuse to park in the garage. It’s a dump! Smells like booze, cigarettes, and is filled with people yelling, fighting, or making out.
When driving downtown in the evenings, on the weekends, I see young people drunk, hassling the Police, driving by in cars with their music blaring, drinking, and yelling out the windows at young attractive girls. It doesn’t really entice me to go there often.
I love young people, but I’ve got to tell you some of them do things that make me wonder who brought them up. Misguided, lost, who knows, but they don’t do much to make downtown attractive to we older folks. It’s really a shame.
I personally take issue with many of the club owners. They have a responsibility to stop serving booze to drunken customers, and to ensure the safety of the public. They hide behind Police brutality, but in reality they are being irresponsible by allowing this stuff to go on. Just my two cents.
#16 Business District dude, are you kidding me? North Beach is a haven for strip joints, sleazy girls and fights. China town is sometimes a haven for drug and weapon activities. Union Square/Tenderloin area are havens for homeless people and drug dealers. The prostitutes hang out in the Tenderloin, which is the heart of downtown SF. The Financial district/Embarcadero is dead during the weekends and nights with homeless people sleeping in the area. The Embarcadero is dark and just full of uninviting concrete landscape. Downtown San Francisco is a sewer! As for any vibrant downtowns in the U.S., there are problems with thugs, drunks and sleazy girls. Just go to downtown Portland, Montreal, Minneapolis, Austin and Toronto. They all have problems with drugs, fightings, shootings and vandalism. I guess it’s the hip-hop gangster-rap culture prevailing all over North America. However, I think the culture of hip-hop and violence are in decline all over the U.S.. You see, it’s not just San Jose problem. It’s the national problem. So, San Jose’s downtown nightlife scene has been improving in the last year, and it’ll get better with new live music scene taking in wake of hip-hop scene recently.
Below is the text of this weeks Cuccini event in San pedro Square.
The hottest weekend in the south bay… hands down @
Cuccini SkyLounge!
This Friday we feature the hottest first friday of the month with
Vice entertainment…
Allure
Saturday The Official Girls Gone Wild and Baby Bash Video come early to get your shine in the video, with a live performance by
Baby Bash performing all his smash singles
Sunday the annual Hott Asada Sunday IV BBQ Fest!
Brought to you by Playboi this is the longest running BBQ party since 98’ Party kicks off @ 2pm
Two weeks ago, it was Latina Girls Gone Wild.
I don’t know how I got on their email list, since I have never been there.
I’ll need to give some thought to my contribution to this debate, since I see good points from both sides.
But combine youth, booze, and testoserone with scantily clad ladies, and it won’t be a church picnic.
Wait a minute! wasn’t it Tom McE’s adminsitration that first touted the Holy Grail of a 24-hour downtown…and started an investment of BILLIONS to make it happen?
Be careful what you wish for…
JM – Correction, my Holy Grail was a Downtown with famiies, small businesses, and great museum and facilties – not clubs and rowdiness. Most of us hoped for a place where we could live; I live there now. We got part way there, much further than anyone would have hoped. That billion could have been spent on roads and sewers and houses down to Gilroy – the people said “No” and I implemented it. It’s a simple story. TMcE
Why beat a dead horse! No offense, Fallon.
D.O.A.
Although I enjoy going downtown, I find myself going less and less.
I used to frequent downtown durring the SOFA era. It seemed much more inviting and people were more friendly.
Now, we seem to have this thuggish crowd which will probablly get worse since they are adding 200 more HUD low income units. Who’s smart idea was that?
Downtown seem to get dirtier and dirtier these days with overflowing trashcans and litter everywhere.. They should make businesses responsible for the areas in front of their business. I’m kind of ashamed when I see all the trash everywhere. I wish people would take more pride in where they live and clean up after themselves.
#28- Amen to that.
A 24 hour down town with no access to toilets. Now there’s a brillant idea.
“Honey let’s go eat down town and catch a movie, Free parling too.OK?
Sweetie, you know how the smell of urine before dinner makes me gag in those stair wells that offer free parking.
OK, Then let’s go to the MHP / East, nothing ever happen there.
Great idea, we could go across the street and have shot’s at that dive bar, walk to Churches Chicken, and feel safe from the druggies and cops.
On second thought, Honey, why don’t we just go to your Mom’s house.
Sweetie! Do you really want to drive to Gilroy”?
D.O.A.
Mr. Van Zandt, despite what others such as “Downtown Business owner” might think, your comments are 100% correct and not a bit exaggerated. I work downtown and every Friday and Saturday night the stairwells flow with beer and urine with some occasional vomit. WOW I bet that’s not on the Downtown Business Associations PR fliers. I think we have a beautiful downtown. These are my suggestions to a better downtown. Fire the person in charge of the downtown business association. Whatever they are doing isn’t working. Get rid of at least 20 of the 30 clubs. This should discourage at least half of the drunk fools from coming from their city and using ours as a toilet. With 2/3 of the clubs gone and 1/2 of the drunk people MIA we might not need to have half the police (at closing time). We can use 1/4 of those officers to get rid of the drug users, homeless encampments and thieves along the Guadeloupe River Trail. The other 1/4 of the officers can be used to rid the downtown area of crack dealers. Stop feeding the homeless and then we might just get St. James Park back. Get rid of “The Place” parolee motel and the other one on 2nd near Williams. Come on you know the one that the crack dealers use to stash there crack. Get Greyhound to update their station at least once every century. Build some more California Theaters. Get out of the mindset that we need to have a 24hr downtown filled with young people. The old people in their 30’s and 40’s can be cool too. What else…oh vote for someone that can get the job done. See simple. Less is more. Less urine, more people. Less crack dealers, more people. Less homeless, more people.
Dave 32,
I am not an owner of a club or alcohol oriented business.
Business owner
More typical SJI complaining and whining about dirty nasty downtown without any solutions or ideas except to close clubs about how to clean up downtown or who should pay other than all taxpayers
San Jose has a service cost recovery policy so clubs or their customers should pay for downtown clean up like any special event which has to pay for clean up of mess their customer create
1) How much sales tax does 30 night clubs give city?
2) What is the total sales taxes from downtown bussiness open after 10 pm?
3) Is it more or less than costs of downtown cleanup and security services?
4) If more costs than taxes, than have downtown businesses customers after 10 pm pay for extra clean up service fee for costs
5) How many other downtown businesses are open after 10 pm?
6) What about = Downtown Entertainment District After 10 pm Customer fee = to pay for extra security , street cleaning, trash removal and power washing of garages and sidewalks paid for by add on charge to customer bills adjusted each year up or down as incentive for after 10 pm customers to not make a mess?
10 pm could be 11 pm if most mess clean up is club caused and other business close by 11 pm
During the past hockey season I took my wife, 8 year old son, and 6 year old daughter to a Shark’s game. This game was on a Saturday night and we thought it would be fun to eat at the Spaghetti Factory prior to the game. We walked to the game from there which was fine. On the way back it was a different story. We had to walk by males urinating on walls, puddles of vomit, drunks walking past us uttering “f*ck” without a care they were in earshot of my kids. Downtown is beautiful during the daytime, but I will never bring my family there at night again and I talk to others who say the same thing. Catering to the club owners and using public money to plow into these clubs is bad policy. The club owner that stated there has been only 1 problem in 5 years is living on a different planet. Now that Santana Row has become established with it’s own bars it has had numerous alcohol related problems.
To #33 Business Owner,
You state you are not the owner of a club or alcohol oriented business. The fact remains that your original statement that there has been only “one problem night in five years” is simply false. If you go back and look at the well documented things that have happened it is there for all to see. To understate this problem, as you have, is only hurting the downtown business owners when potential clients or customers don’t feel safe going to the downtown business. I have no agenda and own no business downtown. I will not, as I previously stated, take my family again to the downtown area at night after our experience going to the Shark’s game and the alcohol related problems. I will take my family elsewhere for dinner where it is more of a family environment. I don’t know if your business gets some benefit from the nightclub related activity, but if it doesn’t maybe your business would increase if you took a more objective view of your customer’s perception of downtown. Maybe I am alone in my feelings, but I really doubt it.
Update to my column:
Thanks to all of you commenting so far who are taking this matter seriously. It doesn’t do any good to deny the situation exists. Since my column appeared, several people who live and/or work downtown have stopped me on the street to tell me they agree the disgusting parking lots and sidewalks and clubs are a big problem in the area, and that they have experienced similar problems firsthand. Some of the stories I have been told of what these people have seen are even way beyond my own.
The San Pedro Square parking lot was just as bad this weekend as the last one. The stairwell next to Sonoma Chicken Coop was truly disgusting all day yesterday (Sunday).
It is also interesting that of the color handbills piled on cars this weekend, two of the clubs aren’t even in San Jose: the Launch in Sunnyvale and Barcelona in San Francisco. What’s going on with this? However, the winner of the prize this week has to be Club Cuccini (across the street from the car park) who is advertising a Hot Ruff Night on June 25 with a glossy photo of a young woman with ample bosoms making whoopie with a motorcycle. Cheesy is the word that comes to mind.
Last night I crawled into bed in my San Pedro Square lair at 10.30 intending to have a nice quiet evening reading. All of a sudden there was a bloodcurdling scream that turned into the loudest techno-music-from-hell I have ever heard. The windows and walls were vibrating. So I crawled out of bed, got dressed and went down on the street to see where it was coming from. The whole neighborhood was filled with the god awful noise for blocks around. I finally discovered the source over 100 yards away——you guessed it: Club Cuccini. They had an outdoor area stuffed full of boozed-up 21-25 year old males (hardly any females in sight) and a DJ so loud it penetrated my flesh and made my bones vibrate. I asked for the manager and we had to walk a ways down the street (with bouncers following) to speak and be heard. I told him where I came from and that he had to turn the music way down or the police would have to be called. To be fair, he apologized and the music was turned way down and I didn’t hear it the rest of the night. But why should I have to walk down there on a Sunday night in order to do this? I am checking on this because it can’t be legal. What kinds of people are running these clubs? They sure as hell don’t care about their neighbors.
I remember when the restaurant Cuccini opened in the neighborhood and how happy we were to have Middle Eastern food available nearby. How they went from a nice restaurant to this obnoxious outdoor club scene I don’t know, but I intend to find out. Who could possibly give them permission to have loud outdoor parties late at night?
I don’t think this problem will be solved by collecting a tax to clean up after club patrons. The problem is that these clubs are here and the patrons they attract are badly behaved in the extreme. Why allow our streets to be turned into toilets and make it OK by cleaning up after these misguided young men?
#35 Dave
You are right. If non-club downtown business owners stood up to fight this problem, the clubs and their patrons would soon be gone and it would be better for the other businesses, residents and everyone else.
Mr Van Zandt,
you mention cuccini as a club that needs to go. which others are a problem (in your opinion) and need to go?
Just curious
#38 How about Taste Lounge where the fight that started the fatal “hit and run” accident? Miami Beach Club which is site of various shootings.
I for one, love the flavor of downtown and do not want it to a country club atmosphere which I don’t think Jack or anyone else wants or expects. I want to have an environment downtown where I feel safe to walk around and proud to bring my friends to. Sure, it si not everyone down here but we are letting the inmates (club operators) run the asylum!
#38
There are city ordinances in place that can be used to deal with these problems. Any business that neglects its neighbors, disturbs the peace in any way or incites misbehavior by its clients should be closed down permanently. It’s an issue of acting responsibly. The city council passed an ordinance giving the police the power to shut down businesses where violent acts take place. What we need is for our code enforcement department to get out and about at night in force and do what they are supposed to be doing—-closing down clubs that violate city codes related to operating such businesses. The police already have their hands full managing the crowds and traffic.
As I said before, our downtown should be safe, clean and fun for people of all ages 24-hours a day. It’s a question of balance. Clubs that act responsibly and within the law, keep the noise, music and event action completely inside closed doors, keep their vicinity clean and work with the community and city to make sure parking facilities are clean and safe at all times, and who keep the other businesses and residents in their neighborhood in mind, would not be a problem. Unfortunately, this does not describe the clubs in my neighborhood that I have already mentioned.
And, the Downtown Association could stop supporting the current club and disgusting parking facility situations. I really don’t understand it. What’s in it for them?
More about this in one of my future columns.
#40
Any business that neglects its neighbors, disturbs the peace in any way or incites misbehavior by its clients should be closed down permanently. It’s an issue of acting responsibly.
Sounds like it is time to move the airport to Hollister
Don’t get me wrong, I love downtown, but, I think a great term to describe it after dark is a “cesspool”.
Last time I took my family downtown my 2 young chiildren got to have dinner prior to a Sharks game we had the pleasure to see drunk males urinating on Santa Clara St, walk around puddles of vomit, and hear the word f*ck spoken often and loudly. Last time I took my family to the airport we got on a plane and did not see males urinating on the side of the planes, vomit on the runway, and the pilots refrained from dropping the f*ck bomb every other word. Maybe we just lucked out that day and it is normally an out of control drunkfest. The airport also has a curfew of I believe 10 or 11 pm, and they have spent millions of dollars for free upgrades to homeowners for sound insulation. Your analogy of comparing the airport to a bar serving intoxicated young men and women is silly.
Sounds like the downtown of any major city. Go to The Tenderloin, theatre district, North Beach in our neighbor to the north, and many of the same things happen. Pick the downtown of any major city and you have the clash of the seedy and the “normal” folks.
That’s one of many reasons why the vast majority of San Joseans, or Silicon Valleyites could not care less about the development, expansion, etc. of downtown San Jose.
The RDA, SJDA, McEnery Holdings , Team San Jose (or whatever they are called) all have a vested interest in expanding downtown and making it more profitable. I say that not as a criticism, but as a fact. However, they refuse to even acknowledge that hardly anyone else gives a damn about downtown San Jose, and would rather see our limited resources spent elsewhere.
Thirty years ago, when Eulipia was only open for lunch since what became SoMA and is now called what? was hooker-town, you couldn’t get a respectable woman to accompany you to Eulipia or Camera One. How things have changed. The hookers are mostly gone, the college crowd trashed Cactus and other venues, and Eulipia is closed for lunch. The California Theatre and the 360 residences may revive that neighborhood in a few years; but now a mixed back of unsavory people gather at the few clubs remaining. Pete Escovedo lasted less than a year.
So, the 24 hour downtown is now reserved for folks most of us would care not to deal with, so we just stay away.
SJDA needs to re-evaluate who its core constituency is—the thugs, gangbangers, rowdies, and other youth full of alcohol and testosterone, and the clubs that cater to them; OR, stable people with real money to spend at nice places, free of riff raff and shootings and assualts with SUVs outside trouble-gathering nightclubs.
The RDA and every administration since McEnery got it backwards—they tried to get retail dowtown before any customers were there to support it. So, lots of failures. The Little Trolley That Can’t crawls at a glacial pace downtown, and stops at every station on every route. There should have been a downtown bypass, and there should have been a dual track system that allows for express trains that would stop every five or more local stops (like NYC, for instance); and the routes should have been where lots of people are from to where lots of people want to go. Another missed opportunity.
Perhaps when all these new medium rise condos get built and occupied, those residents will take back downtown from the n’er-do-wells, but we have a few years to wait yet, I believe.
Tom McE # 26 stated: “Correction, my Holy Grail was a Downtown with famiies, small businesses, and great museum and facilties – not clubs and rowdiness. “
Well, Tom, we’re still looking for that Grail. Where did you propose those families live, in The Retail Pavilion? Few residences were built. Small businesses failed. The RDA was so busy subsidizing The Fairmont, your eponymous convention center, etc. that no families found homes there and small business withered and died.
Not just your administartion, but all the following ones until just recently, when there was a moratorium on the BMR units that has spawned the furious new construction. Social engineering usually backfires.
And I would not call where you live downtown. Close to it, but not it.
#28: where are these HUD units going up?
#30, The OLDER people in their 30’s & 40’s???!!!
Jack #37—a person crawling into bed @ 10:30 should not be living in any downtown. I remember staying @ The Waldorf Astoria in NY/NY a few years back. Nice hotel, right? Certainly costly. The regular street noise was deafening. Lesson learned—cities are noisy. That’s why I like my burb.
#46 JohnMichael
I have to admit, I was thinking about the burbs on Sunday night! I usually don’t go to bed as early as 10.30, but my book was beckoning me and it was so quiet outside until the (illegal) noise from hell I described.
FYI Most of the residents in my building are professionals (teachers, lawyers, bankers, fireman, newspaper editor, City Hall staffer, etc) who work downtown and don’t want to commute. The street noise rarely reaches New York’s level during the middle of the week.
So, Jack, do you live in McEnery Towers?
#46 I’m not sure exactly where I read this but in one of the new high rises they are building in downtown, they are reserving units for HUD housing..
John Michael – you’re a tough man to keep up with. My one blog a week is outnumbered by your four or five or six. But I’ll try. To say that no one cares about Downtown is to stand the world on its head, to defy reason and to nullify numerous elections for decades past. Only the greed, selfishness, and stupidity of developers and councils kept the Downtown a sorry place. All that changed. Don’t think that the failure of one Retail Pavilion, 70,000 sq.ft. of space, negates the many, many successes of all the ciitizens who worked for a place of pride and commerce. Only the ineptness/corruption of the last 10 or 12 yrs., in the midst of the dot com prosperity, prevented a gigantic leap forward. And as for the thugs who operate under the umbrella of the club dominated Downtown Assoc. – what are you doing to change that with your many fine and powerful ideas – try the Arena, JM. You don’t have to be afraid. I have forgotten more about small businesses, good and bad, and neighborhoods, and battles lost and won than you could comprehend in your drive from home to the SJ Athletic Club and on to your office and back again. Sounds like groundhog day. Oh, and anyone with modest geographic knowledge knows I live downtown – I don’t cut and run. I live with my successes and my mistakes. TMcE
I responded in depth yesterday, but it has not been put up. Why is that?
#51 Johnmichael
I have checked and all of your submissions that we have received have been put on the board. Perhaps you put the one you are referring to on another thread? Was it #33 on my most recent column about soft closings?
No, it was a detailed response to Tom’s #50, disputing several of his points.
I’ll try this once again. It was deleted by the editors the first try. It’ll be much shorter this time, in case it gets deleted again.
Tom-nice try misquoting me. Pick that up on the Bellarmine debate team, did you??—misquote the opposition. I didn’t say no-one cares. I did say that most people don’t care about downtown SJ. I’d take that opinion to the bank. Just read the posts on your blog about downtown.
Why did SNI get so much traction…because people all over SJ cared about downtown? The place is so dead on weekends that most restaurants are closed. Why? One reason is there is no indigenous population. People flee after work, and would rather go pretty much anywhere else but back downtown for the evening.
I’m not afraid of downtown, Tom, or the people who inhabit it. I’m a white boy who grew up in Inglewood, CA, passed through Crenshaw every day to get to high school, and my draft board was in Compton. SJ just has a different ethnicity for their thugs than Inglewood did. But thugs are thugs.
That said, I was required to go to high school, but I am not required to put up with the downtown aggregation of hip hoppers, druggies, y vatos locos that crawl out from other parts of the bay area to infest our downtown. Nor do I have to put up with a police dept. that on the one hand is cowed by the PC crowd not to arrest the thugs because most of them are people of color and someone might scream racism, and on the other hand who choose not to discriminate by treating EVERYONE like a criminal at closing time by giving them the bum’s rush.
Perhaps, Tom, you should have remembered some of the stuff you say that forgot about small business, etc. Perhaps then you would have realized that businesses without a customer base are doomed to fail.
If you still live on [street deleted], sorry Tom, but that ain’t downtown. If you don’t still live on [street deleted], but indeed do live downtwon, I’ll concede that point.
We all live with our successes and our mistakes; and some of us even admit them.
#54 Johnmichael
No submission by you was “deleted by the editors” as you claim. If something you sent did not get put on the board, it was because we did not receive it, for whatever reason. I would let you know by email if anything received from you was being censored.
It’s a good idea if everyone writes their comments in Word and pastes to the template here in case anything goes wrong.
Our policy is we don’t allow private addresses to be posted on the board so the street name has been deleted from your post above.
Jack Van Zandt, Editor