I received a good deal of feedback on my blog on the Downtown Association (DTA) last week. Most people were surprised at the lobbying efforts of “their” executive director in favor of clubs, many of those venues being very large and troublesome. Several people were, frankly, astonished. They held the simple, undeniable belief that unless everyone felt comfortable downtown during the evening hours, then the current policy was an immense failure. They echoed the established fact that our garages are unfriendly, unsafe and unusable to the vast majority of our citizens visiting downtown late or staying late.
Although there are efforts being made, I was hoping that members of the DTA board would step up, comment, and express either support or disapproval of the current nightclub-friendly policies of the DTA. The silence was not really surprising, timidity being so prevalent there, but it reinforced the feeling that the executive board is out of the loop and unaware of the late evening problems that got real estate baron Mark Ritchie to cite “thuggery” as the biggest problem downtown. One board member, who belatedly toured the downtown with a couple of his kids last week, told me that he was disgusted by the public urination and other antisocial activities. However, still nothing but silence from this board. This is not good enough.
Again, we offer San Jose Inside as a forum for any board member to explain their vision for our downtown.
This Friday morning, at Bella Mia Restaurant on South First Street, is the annual DTA meeting. I am sure it will be a love fest and they will gloss over any problems while pointing to just the “good” development that is happening. Although much good is happening, this attitude is sad. I would suggest some questions for this session. How does the advocacy for large clubs, with their dubious security (read: bouncers) and abhorrent behavior, fit the DTA’s goals? Which of the “Concerts in the Park” or the “Concerts in the Other Park” (St. James) contributes to a stable, friendly, and safe downtown neighborhood and which brings more problems? We need some candor and some rapid changes. If you doubt it, just take your wife, friends, or family to this downtown as envisioned and encouraged by the policies of the DTA.
I’m sure we’ll hear soon from Straight Outta San Jose, who denies there is a problem downtown at & around the clubs. She/he probably denies The Holocaust, as well.
Think East Side Dre will accuse Tom McE of racism??
Planner and I think I Love You will continue their love fest for both of the above.
Film @ Eleven.
There should be a committed effort to relocating and consolidating these clubs (away from the downtown core) instead of simply telling them to go away. Owners aren’t going to throw away money just to appease the prudes. They need a viable alternative. Step up and stop whining. Develop north Monterey Road (an example) into a “nightclub district” so all parties are happy and the trouble is maintained without poisoning the rest of downtown.
Stop whining, Mr McEnery, since it’s your fault. You wanted a 24hr downtown, and you got it! It’s very active a night with all kinds things downtown, some good and some bad. It’s very diverse downtown. I’d rather it be the way it is rather than a sleepy and dead downtown that you want now. If you were to do it all over again, interms of redeveloping downtown, would you have done it the same way, Mr McEnery? If different, how different would you have done it? Remember, it stems from you administration.
Well, well, number 4, since you put it respectfully, I do indeed want a 24hr.Downtown – a place where people can have fun, view the arts, have a good time, and LIVE. The balance is totally out of whack now – anyone visiting the dt knows that simple fact. I live there, work there, and have tried to improve it. I do not wear rose-colored glasses, now or then. If you are threathened, bothered, or walked thru a puddle of urine – this is not the place ANYONE worked for. The selfish interests of a few club owners and a few slum lords is destroying the 24 hr. dt for ALL> TMcE
Tom,
Thanks for being a voice of reason and speaking up for the silent majority. You, or others who support your thoughts will, I am sure, be branded as closet racists as more blogs appear on this subject. Maybe it is time to try something radical. Pull all the police officers working thousands of extra hours of overtime from downtown, who try and keep a lid on the situation. Let the situation implode so a solution (getting rid of the thug clubs) is mandated to the mayor, city council, and police chief. Reassign all the police officers currently working downtown to other parts of the city with gang problems, traffic problems, murder investigations, etc, etc. Send officers to staff the investigations units at the police department whose numbers have been dramatically reduced. The club owners and patrons alike don’t like the police downtown and say they are in large part the problem. Fine, lets take these officers and put them where their services are more needed for the citizens of San Jose.
YAY!! A new week, and a new the sky is falling downtown blog!!
“unless everyone felt comfortable downtown during the evening hours, then the current policy was an immense failure”
Hard for me to believe that the 60 something opera going crowd will feel comfortable among a 20 something club going crowd. People are different and if this is going to be the litmus test for failure, it will fail every time.
“told me that he was disgusted by the public urination and other antisocial activities”
Yes- We agree the smell of urine, and stepping into puddles of it is disgusting. I have a couple of questions here. Why are police officers not assigned to patrol our parking garages. I mean of the 100 cops downtown, can we spare 2 to walk around the garages and DETER people from doing dumb things. I have seen a few police officers in garages before, but they seem to be glued to their car seats. I have also seen a few bike patrol officers around the garages, but they seem to like to hide in the shadows until the moment of urination has begun, then come out of nowhere flashlights ablaze and cite the offender. This is great, but once the piss hits the ground, the damage is done. Again, these officers need to be visible to stop the pee before the trickle begins.
Here is an Idea, I don’t know if its possible, but can we have those dudes who do weekend work, or whatever u call it go downtown” Can we get a few orange vests, a couple garbage bags and a pressure washer and have them dudes clean up the mess. Isn’t that a wonderful idea?
And what exactly are “other antisocial activities”? I’m just wondering.
Anyhow, I’ve said enough about this topic already, I don’t wanna turn into a one trick pony but again I will pose this question to anyone who cares to answer;
What clubs do you want to close, and what would take their places?
Charge the ill mannered with indecent exposure and put them on the orange vest crew. Maybe they should clean up after the mounted unit too. Until their noses are put in it, they’ll just keep acting like untrained dogs claiming their territory. That’s exactly what they are doing, claiming downtown as theirs.
#8 “SJDTA board member”
I have checked and we have received no previous comments from you. If you really are a Downtown Association board member, then why hide behind an anonymous name? How do we know you are who you say you are? Why don’t you identify yourself with your real name and name of your business and take the opportunity to present your vision of how our downtown can be improved and how your business fits into that scheme. What contribution are you making to our community as a whole? What downtown problems need attention? What solutions do you suggest? If you really are a DTA board member, there are plenty of issues for you to address. You should take responsibility as dictated by the position and comment under your own name.
Jack Van Zandt, SJI Editor
#12- WELL SAID and BRAVO!
The SJDTA take responsibility for the public urination resulting in parking fees, stabbings, beatings, shootings, and violence, clubs that draw in thugs from every surrounding city? No Jack, that would mean addressing all of us on this blogg who are fed up and angry about the way they’ve ignored our concerns, and passed the buck off on to the taxpayers, and the Police. That would mean having enough integrity to really give a damn about something other than the big bucks they draw in on weekends at their clubs. If they actually did address any thing on this blogg they might actually become accountable for the increased Police presence in dt and not be able to hide behind Police profiling and excessive force. You see Jack, they might actually have to DO SOMETHING about the mess they’ve created, and of course Jack, we just can’t have that happen. So, instead they’ll just accuse your blogg of being unfair, discriminatory, and being just plain mean to them. UGH~
I have checked and we have received no previous comments from you. If you really are a Downtown Association board member, then why hide behind an anonymous name? How do we know you are who you say you are? Why don’t you identify yourself with your real name and name of your business and take the opportunity to present your vision of how our downtown can be improved and how your business fits into that scheme. What contribution are you making to our community as a whole? What downtown problems need attention? What solutions do you suggest? If you really are a DTA board member, there are plenty of issues for you to address. You should take responsibility as dictated by the position and comment under your own name.
Thank you Editor,
Really I am a nobody..
I am not a business owner. I do not belong to the DTA or any other association or political organization.
My name really is Dre, I am not hiding behind anything. If you want to know my profession or more information than that shoot me an email, we can talk.
What I am concerned with is the attitudes that Downtown attracts only “thugs” “garbage” and the latest is “untrained dogs” (thanks for that insight Wonder Woman).. And talk that downtown is ruined for “everyone”. I feel that some of you have no conception that non-thugs garbage and untrained dogs go downtown after dark and we have great experiences. A very small percentage of downtown club goers are actually breaking the law, and if laws are broken, then they need to be enforced. If there is a difference of ideas of what constitutes a good time; both of them legal- then there has to be tolerance for all.
Tom and Jack—
I’m a member of the board of the San Jose Downtown Association (SJDA). I recently participated along with many other board members in a board retreat where, among other things, we stayed up to observe the downtown night culture and rolling closing of clubs in the early hours of the morning. Our downtown councilperson was also there. I did not observe any of the things you vaguely allude to in your posts.
I’m not a club owner, I don’t participate in the club scene, although I do enjoy going to the downtown Britannia Arms and I sometimes have lunch at Smoke Tiki Lounge. Both such establishments, despite serving alcohol, are family friendly and owned by SJDA board members who are upstanding citizens (as are the rest of the boardmembers).
I don’t have any axe to grind on the question of downtown nightclubs and I always post under my own name on this blog. So my response is, I just don’t see the problem, and certainly not at the magnitude you suggest. Maybe it’s there, but I have not seen it. Nor have I been willfully blind to it; as mentioned, I went and looked.
In saying this, I don’t doubt that every-so-often a college age kid urinates or pukes in an alley, but that does not strike me as a sign of the coming apocalypse. It’s just life in the big city. Moreover, SJDA has recently established a PBID in the downtown which will faciliate improved cleaning of downtown sidewalks, thereby mitigating the impact of such scofflaws.
Likewise, SJDA supported the city council’s recent adoption of late night fees for city parking garages, which I’m informed has already improved the atmosphere in these garages—and will pay for enhanced upkeep.
And, I’m informed, the SJDA concerts in Plaza de Cesar Chavez and St. James Parks are under review concerning the bands invited and the audiences they attract. That being said, I attended SJDA’s “Music in the Park” English Beat concert last year and it was a great—and wholesome—event at which everyone of all ages appeared to have a good time.
Finally, for the sake of some your mis-informed posters here, SJDA boardmembers are not “responsible” for problems in the downtown. We volunteer our time to help make the downtown a better place. We’re ordinary citizens and we do more than merely kibbitz online. We are part of the solution—assuming, that is, there’s a problem.
Jack #12—thanks for busting #8 publicly
#14 East Side Dre
Please reread my post #12. I wasn’t addressing you but “SJDTA board member” #8.
We appreciate getting your views so please keep posting.
#15 Don Gagliardi
I have no doubt of your sincereity in wanting the downtown to be a better place. However, if you lived downtown like I have for eight years you would see what it’s really like and how it has deteriorated rapidly in the past 2-3 years. Your one night official tour won’t do it. It’s astounding to me that you would suggest that there is no problem.
Jack Van Zandt
And so there you have it folks, an occasional college student relieving himself, or puking in a garage got us a $5.00 parking fee. We really aren’t reading article after article about beatings, stabbings, shootings, Police brutality, racial profiling, or any other violence in downtown. None of us have ever gone downtown and seen it for ourselves; we are just blindly following the lies and exaggerations of Tom and Jack. Must be great to be that powerful you two.
Music in the park has lots of drinking there, and has had many fights, public urination, and yes, thugs of all races, colors, religions, and nationalities, that is unless you’re sitting there with the volunteers of America known as the SJDTA, then everything is rosy.
Denial is not just an Egyptian River; it’s a wonderful thing!
#15- So if you were actually able to acknowledge there is a problem in DT, exactly what would you do about it? How would you start working with homeowners, property owners, business owners, and tax paying citizens to fix it? How would you go about getting club owners to pay the $5.00 parking fees we’re stuck with paying, and how would tax payers be repaid for the Police Officers that are spread out in DT, some on potty watch in the garages, instead of out in our neighborhoods, and streets?
#18 (Kathleen): I’m not calling anyone a liar. I’m simply, in foolhardy fashion, answering the call for a response from SJDA boardmembers and in doing so reporting what I have personally observed.
I have not once seen any beatings, stabbings, shootings, police brutality or racial profiling in downtown San Jose in the decade-plus I have both lived in my downtown area neighborhood and worked in downtown office buildings. I doubt that very many persons on this blog or elsewhere in San Jose have personally observed such things in downtown San Jose. Perhaps we would have if we habituated downtown after midnight, but most of us do not.
#17 (Jack): I’m not suggesting that there is not a problem, though I’m not persuaded there is one. Indeed, if you re-read my post carefully, I allow that there might be one—I just haven’t observed it. And frankly, there has been a lot of histrionics but scant evidence of a problem by anonymous bloggers. Give me some specific examples with dates, times, locations. Invite others to do the same. I pledge to bring them to the attention of SJDA officials, although you could do the same.
Meanwhile, what I have observed is good faith steps taken by SJDA and city officials to deal with the perceived problems downtown. From what I have heard, and observed recently, the pilot program with staggered closings of the clubs is working; I believe it should be broadened to encompass the entire downtown. There has been a push to allow eating establishments to remain open later, which I consider a positive development. There are the late night parking garage fees, which the clubs are already paying for in reduced business traffic. There is the recent adoption of the PBID. All steps in the direction of alleviating the growing pains of an increasingly vibrant night culture in downtown—and all advocated if not entirely authored by SJDA.
Don #15
The attitude insinuated from your statement is where the problem lies. “We’re ordinary citizens and we do more than merely kibbitz online. We are part of the solution—assuming, that is, there’s a problem”.
Don, I work downtown and I take my family to many activities downtown. I spend lots of money downtown. I currently volunteer time downtown and was a reserve police officer (I worked thousands of hours for free) for many years. I do not merely “kibbitz” online. You say you volunteer your time to make downtown a better place. That is very commendable but you should be open to constructive criticism rather than passing it off as “kibbitz”, ie idle chatter.
For you Don, to kibbitz outloud, pondering if there is really a problem due to the binge drinking district is at best ignorant and asinine. Do you follow the regular reports of the violent crime associated to the binge drinking district? Have you seen the aftermath of Cinco de Mayo and Mardi Gras events which have become out of control, costing shop owners millions in repairs and taxpayers in millions of wasted dollars? Do you see the waste of police and emergency resources that the binge drinking district sucks from the rest of the city. Listen to the the non stop police and fire activity on a scanner on a Friday or Saturday night.
You are too smart to know that you can’t have observed downtown for a night and thus extrapolate that is reflective of every other night in the binge drinking district. You are too smart to state “that every-so-often a college age kid urinates or pukes in an alley” and to represent that is the main problem we “kibbitzers” are concerned with in the binge drinking district.
I find your attitude towards this problem disturbing in that since you volunteer on some association you can dismiss all others who have a problem with the binge drinking district as people who really have no right to complain. This borderline attitude of take it or shove it is the same attitude of the problem club owners and patrons, and coming from someone in power such as yourself is condescending and arrogant.
I know, I am just “kibbitzing” and shooting off my mouth. By the way, I enjoy your use of a good Yiddish word, one of many I learned growing up. If you get a chance to look it up there is another good Yiddish word that describes your attitude. That word is “chutzpah”.
Dave,
You better seek out AA since you seem to have “binge drinking” on the brain. Your subconscious is showing.
Don, #15 … thanks for the detailed response and for going out yourself to see it. I am amazed that you did not see more outrageous behavior! Simpley amazed. When Chuck Reed, Sam LIccardo and I visited the closing of one club a few months back, it took 25 police officers to effect that. The Market St. garage has been unusable to any non-clubber after 11P. When you call for a cop in Northside or Eastside, how does the use of PD resources in DT strike you? Of course, the DTA is not the reason for this, but their short sided advocacy of clubs and slum lords in not helpful. Does the DTA have a policy of which members the Ex. Director can lobby for: how about prostitutes, drug sellers – ok, if they pay their dues – remember, Don, the hookers in DT on So.1st – do you think they just went away on their own – we made them leave and DT was the better for it. Again, thanks for looking , but how could you not see what each and every other person DT after midnight is painfully aware of? TMcE
Dave #20 – boy, you answered DonG. so much better than I did – nice post, and to the heart of the matter. Keep kibbitzing! TMcE
Dave (#20): SJDA does not sponsor the Cinco de Mayo or Post Street Mardi Gras festivities downtown—i.e., we’re not responsible for them. Recall that SJDA responsibility for the problems of downtown has been the premise of this blog.
Thus, the discussion on this blog, to my understanding, has not been about those festivals until you brought them up.
Further, my understanding is that the Post Street Mardi Gras festival has been cancelled for over a year now because, indeed, it did get out of hand. (Which reminds me that I rode my bicycle downtown to enjoy Mardi Gras at Smoke Tiki Lounge last winter and had a great time, and saw nothing problematic during my evening.) So, if Mardi Gras is the problem, in your conception of it, then problem solved.
Don #19
Not one person on this thread mentioned police brutality or racial profiling, so what’s your point in bringing them up? It seems that you are saying that since you haven’t witnessed stabbings and shootings from your office during the day then they don’t occur. Good thing you weren’t at Club Motif on Sunday morning (or last month when it was called something else). You can keep denying anything like that takes place now.
It isn’t “college age kids puking in some alley” that is or has been identified as a specific problem. Here is a very small example of one minor but real problem from my personal file. Nearly every Saturday and Sunday morning, I have to hop over a pond of urine to get out of my building’s front door. Then I walk down the street and up the southwest staircase of the Market Street Garage where I hop over the same puddles and broken glass all weekend long because they don’t get cleaned up from Friday until Monday morning. This happens EVERY WEEKEND and it has been this way for at least TWO YEARS. I have complained to the manager of the facility and still nothing happens. This is just one doorway and one city parking garage and one street corner on the edge of the entertainment district.
I am afraid Dave (#20) has you pegged. This is very disappointing because I thought you might be seriously wanting to address real problems, given your position of responsibility in the DTA. What would be the point of any of us sending our complaints to you to pass on to the powers that be? We aren’t saying what you want to hear, so where does that leave us? You are already telling us that the concerns we are sharing with you on this issue are not real because you haven’t seen such things for yourself.
I have spoken to the police chief about the situation downtown and he agrees that there are very serious problems associated with the binge drinking nightclub scene. He sees all the stuff you claim never to have seen yourself and says these problems exist. Are you saying Chief Davis is being untruthful?
Come on Don. You and your more responsible fellow DTA board members can do better than this. We residents don’t create the context that cause these late night problems. Some of your DTA business members do. So what are you and your organization going to do about it?
#18 Kathleen:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t a nightclub owner have to go through planning dep’t, police, and abc to open their establishment? If I am correct, the DTA does not have the power to open or close problem nightclubs. that problem lies with the police and code enforcement and planning, if the nightclub is committing violations like overserving or serving minors. So I’m not sure why you seem to think that the DTA is the source of all evil downtown. Your energies would be better spent where it can do some good. And if more policing needs to happen downtown, then so be it. That is the way it is in cities. Less police presence in Willow Glen or in safer areas, more where the need lies. Since people, both young and old, well-mannered and ill-behaved, gather downtown, the need for police lies there. It is ridiculous to complain about that fact, because that’s how it is in every single city.
Furthermore, the city will be charging all folks to park within a few months, not just the late night patrons. The parking fund needs revenue, period.
Lastly, you should apologize for your tone to Don Gagliardi. He is a neighborhood leader and has spent countless hours working on behalf of his own neighborhood, in addition to working with the downtown. Google him.
Tom McEnery,
You stated:
“Again, we offer San Jose Inside as a forum for any board member to explain their vision for our downtown.”
Your blog does not offer an open “forum” in any way to any downtown issues. I have posted a number of comments and questions; and your “filters” have only allowed comments and questions you are willing to have posted.
Purhaps you give way to much credit to yourself to both the level respect and confidence (or lack there of) that your “forum” has with the San Jose Community.
Purhaps the many business, property and stakeholders of the SJDTA don’t see the point of posting anything on your “not so open forum”. Maybe it is not seen a way to positively achieve quality changes for downtown or San Jose.
WAY TO GO DAVE! Very well said.
The reality here is that Don is a perfect example of why no one gets on or stays on committees, or even gets involved in community issues. He is a perfect example of the kind of stonewalling, pompous “kiss my ass,” attitude that turns people from willing problem solvers, civic minded caring people, into really pissed off complainers. He is one big reason why NOTHING gets done.
This kind of denial is not only disturbing to you Jack, and Tom, it is frightening to me because he is sitting on an association that actually has our city leaders ear!
To expect this Don person to have the integrity, and decency to really acknowledge the problems in downtown would take him getting his face punched in by a drunk, then slipping in a pile of pee on his way to his car to get to the hospital. Then he’d have to be stopped in the long line of traffic waiting to go to these clubs, while hearing and seeing what I see once a month, when I drive downtown to my friends home on the weekend. And I can pretty much guarantee you that he’d still find a way to make an excuse for every experience he had. So, I think you can save your breath because the guy must live in a cave. A cave that doesn’t have TV, radio, or newspapers!
And Don, if you want dates and times of violence, drunken brawls, shootings, stabbings, and beatings, I suggest you walk your in denial butt straight to the Police Chief and ask him for the Police reports he has in a pile high on his desk. Or better yet, pick up a newspaper, or talk to folks in downtown.
As to club and business owners already paying the price of Police enforcement, and parking fees I PAY FOR, you’re nuts. Their loss of business stems directly from the fact that they are driving good, hard working individuals OUT OF DT. By allowing thugs from all over to come DT and trash the place, and assault people, they have brought this on themselves. I won’t be shedding any tears for them either.
And if you think Tom’s wrong about the slum lords in DT, take a long drive and a good long look, then take your butt over to Legal Aid and ask them how many tenants they represent in SLUMS with no running water, or leaking roofs.
Wake up Don, this IS the reality, and it’s not going anywhere far from your rose colored view of the world. Either deal with it, or resign from the association because enough is enough~
#26- Whoa, another blogger who hides their identity and asks me to see them and their comments as credible…
The only person here who owes anyone an apology is Don. He has insulted, and blown off every one of us who have tried to discuss these issues honestly.
I don’t hold the DTA responsible for “everything.” I hold them responsible for not working with the community to better DT.
As communities volunteer, my energy is well, and happily spent working with people and organizations that actually acknowledge and address problems in the community, not ignore or minimize them like you and your pal Don.
My three cents, for what it’s worth:
To say that there exists no problem because you haven’t seen it yourself is absurd and downright ridiculous. That post read like it was written by someone who never goes downtown past midnight. Ever. Sure, you can easily take your family downtown, go to the theatre or—God knows why—Old Spaghetti Factory, and then leave the area by 10pm and never even realize there’s a problem at all.
On the other side of the coin, to prudishly refer to the neighborhood as a “binge drinking district” is equally illogical and downright offensive, especially to those of us who like to drink heavily downtown and NOT cause problems. There are basically five or six clubs in all of downtown that draw the “element” that you all say you don’t want downtown, when in reality it’s the people who can’t get into the clubs that are causing the majority of the problems.
To write off the whole neighborhood as a “binge district” is ludicrous. Just because you yourself don’t feel safe bringing your family in front of certain establishments doesn’t mean the rest of us have to join the Women’s Christian Temperance Union, find God and start a 1930s-era gospel tent crusade to bring back prohibition. (No, you didn’t say that, but that’s pretty much where you seem to be veering.) I’m with you in that there exist undesirable troublemakers who descend upon the place en masse, but drop this whole “binge district” nonsense, please. You sound like every farmers’ town rube that wants San Jose to remain a prune-picking country town forever.
If you want to find fault in this whole mess, find it with the landlords. They know full well that they’re renting to clubs that will attract trouble. They know that. They’re the ones who permanently destroyed the original SoFA district and turned it into the ghetto that it is now. (Hear me out.) The rest of the landlords, seeing how much money could be made, followed suit accordingly and now you have an unrepairable mess. When it was all rock and roll and live music-based, there were no stabbings, no shootings, no sawed-off shotguns and no need for half the police force to be present. Once the landlords ruined it all, then it left a sour taste in the mouths of most South Bay live music fans and now, in 2007, the majority of people just don’t want to come out of the suburbs to go downtown and see music because, in their eyes, the landlords have turned the whole neighborhood into a ghetto. And the few venues left that still offer live music are precisely the ones who AREN’T causing the problems. Go figure.
And that is not racist. Go ask any of the bartenders who work in these meatmarket clubs—they’ll unanimously refer to the crowds as “ghetto.” Right or wrong, that’s become the catch-all term to describe it these days.
You see, everybody wants something different out of downtown. Some people, probably a few on this blog, want it to exist only for upper-middle class yuppies drinking lattes while waiting for their poodle to finish its chiropractor appointment. Others want it to be a place to go break bottles and look for a fight. Some are still left from the original SoFA era and would rather just go see some bands, get drunk peacefully, use the toilets INSIDE the club and then go home.
What the older generations don’t understand is that if you’re born anytime after 1977 or so and are even remotely beyond the pale of mainstream, San Jose is a very, very, VERY boring place to grow up in. There is literally nothing to do here. Until that changes, it’s gonna be a long haul, man….
In a totally unrelated matter, I wanted to commend the San Jose Police Department for their diligent work in arresting the animal that drove over and sexually assaulted a 12 year old girl last week. Hats off to a great job by the patrol officers and detectives who solved this case so quickly.
#7 East Side Dre,
It is not just the 60-year-old opera crowd that finds the thug behavior offensive and threatening in San Jose’s binge drinking district. Your comments are ripe with the strident attitude of the ‘take it or shove it’ attitude pervasive amongst the owners of the problem clubs, and those who patronize those clubs. Lest someone not want to expose themselves or a family member, to the situations created by a large number of very intoxicated people massed into a small geographical area, they are labeled as either prudes or racists to deflect any type of personal responsibility away from the drunks or bar owners.
Apparently you are familiar with the police staffing required downtown, as you refer to the “100 cops assigned downtown”. Our police department only has about 1,300 sworn officers, thus using your own figures almost 8% of our already depleted department is used just to deal with the downtown binge drinking district. Why should the rest of the hard working tax paying citizens of San Jose be deprived of the police services they have bought and paid for, just to baby-sit a bunch of drunks, many who don’t even live in our city.
San Jose has a geographical area of about 178 square miles. The downtown binge drinking area is at most 1 square mile, and probably less. Using your figures of “100 cops downtown” the city would need a police force of about 18,000 sworn police officers to make the police force equitable in the rest of the city in comparison to the amount of officers used to keep a lid on the binge drinking district. In other words, us hard working tax paying folks of San Jose, who once in a blue moon need to access our police services, are getting screwed by the travesty that has become our downtown binge drinking district. Your attitude, which is representative of the proverbial tail wagging the dog, just inflames the feelings of those who already feel cheated out of the city services we have come to deserve and expect.
Our police officers are not meant to be potty patrol monitors in either the binge drinking district garages or anywhere else. If there is a repeated problem from a segment of our society that has so little respect for others or self-control as to cause an expectation of our officers to “ be visible to stop the pee before the trickle begins”, then the root of this problem needs to solved. In this case, that solution is closing the problem clubs in the binge drinking district. If I call 911 because my house is being broke into, or someone in my family needs help, I sure as hell hope an officer or two will respond rather than be too busy because they have to be on potty patrol for a bunch of incorrigible drunks.
To answer the question you pose “What clubs do you want to close, and what would take their places?” my answer is simple. Close down any club who serves alcohol to minors, obviously drunk individuals, stays open past hours, operates outside of either their licenses or permits, or has a track record of repeated violent incidents occurring within that club. We do not need, nor should we have to tolerate these clubs. What should take their place? Anything else that promotes a safe, family friendly atmosphere, be that cultural, retail, social or educational.
Just to give you some ideas, I take my family to the Tech Museum, Discovery Museum, Christmas in the Park, Sharks games, Disney on Ice, the Circus, concerts at HP Pavilion, the downtown library, Spaghetti Factory, other restaurants, IMAX theater, Guadalupe trail, Tapestry in Talent, 4th of July fireworks, Peralta Adobe and Fallon House, American Musical Theater, California Theater, and Improv (I know I am leaving things off this list). You see, there is no shortage of things that can take the place of the problem clubs. By the way, I am in my forties and have two young children. I am not in my 60’s and I have never been to the opera.
In regards to DT. Maybe a couple of improvements would be to get some public restrooms for those who visit the area.
It would also be good to see police reports from the DT area to see if there were assaults or other problems dealing with people acting badly. That might motivate the DTA to get more of a handle on the DT club scene if that is where the problem is being created or it could be just the ebb and flow of a very active street scene.
GET RID OF SCOTT KNIVES AS HEAD OF DOWNTOWN ASSOCIATION. HE HAS TURNED INTO A POLITICIAN AND IS PAID FOR BY THE CLUB OWNERS.
31- Look who’s throwing stones in a glass house. Kathleen is my real name. Unlike you I don’t put Unreal, or like others blog under any other fake titles, or disguse myself as “you know Who, I think I love You,” etc. Many times the same person posts under different fake titles like yours to try and fool us into thinking more than one person is commenting. I use my name out right.
I’m not required to put my email address on my posts so people can contact me privately. I’m not required to post my full name either. If I want you to know my last name I’ll tell you.
And what does your comment have to do with the topic anyway? Why don’t you contribute to the conversation, fake ID or not, and stay on topic, or go to a blogg that enjoys smacking people around over stupid things because they aren’t able to participate in an intelligent serious conversation?
No, I’m the real Kathleen! Post 32 was a lie! It’s me! The other one is the anonymous trickster!
#26 – it’s interesting you suggest reducing police patrol in Willow Glen. I have lived near a park for many years which is considered family-friendly and relatively safe. However, there is no longer regular patrol and very serious crimes have occurred in broad daylight. For example a woman was viciously attacked while there were other people around. The result is less people are visiting the park which makes it even more unsafe. I don’t know whether it’s limited resources or a result of deploying more police downtown, but it’s a problem that is not going away.
#33 and #31 –
If you can’t comment on the subject, then why comment at all? I know Kathleen, and she is using her real name, unlike the two of you.
#34 – If you are going to post under the naem of Kathleen, because you think it is funny, then you should not mislead people into thinking you are the Kathleen you are trying to harass on this post.
Jack – I know that SJI encourages freedom of speech, and allows people to blog anonymously, but these kinds of attacks go against your guidelines, and should be filtered out. It takes away from the discussions that happen here.
In case you guys haven’t figured it out, it’s not wise for women to post their full name. When this site first began, I did; later it occurred to me that was probably not too smart, so when I began posting again and was wondering if this site was a podium for Rich Robinson incessantly long posts, I chose my alias. Now I’m wondering why so many of you waste so much time over such a nonsensical issue.
#32- Do you understand the difference between a name, and the definition of anonymous? Clearly not. You are entitled to your opinion, and so am I.
#34- If you are going to be so immature as to play pranks, have the integrity to make sure people are clear you are not me.
Here’s my bottom line folks, these kinds of stupid pissing matches are counter productive, and boring. One of the reasons bloggs fail, or people stop writing on them is because there is a lack of respect or tolerance for people’s opinions on issues, and for those who won’t write on the topic, and side track issues with personal attacks. I don’t think putting down your first name is going to expose you to any harm in the public, so if you don’t want to put it down for fear of being exposed, then fine, don’t. But I won’t find your comments real credible either.
My name is Kathleen Bridget Flynn. So, for future reference, I will put it in all my posts. Perhaps now, you will not be mislead by people like #34’s asinine games, and useless arguments, or the wonderful, anonymous blogger.
Now Jack, it is clear to me that since #34 has used my name, she/he will use it again. If he/she does, and you can see it is not coming from my email, kindly expose him/her publicly in a post for that. Thanks.
#37- You raise a very good point about safety. The difference between you and others is that you have never attacked people, nor mislead anyone, nor posted several times under fake , nor have you gone on immature rants that are off topic. Your posts have been very credible, and very informative. I hope you keep blogging!
#35-Shelly, you are absolutely correct. The Police should be everywhere, and anywhere they are needed. That is part of the problem here. Because there is so much violence downtown on the weekends, the rest of us suffer.
#25 (Jack) —
In mentioning never having personally observed “police brutality” and “racial profiling” in the downtown, I was responding to those precise terms as used by Kathleen in post #18 to describe what she suggested were problems plaguing downtown that she reads about repeatedly in the press. You are mistaken in saying that I am the one who introduced these issues into the discussion.
As for the alleged urine outside and broken glass outside your front step every weekend, let’s meet there tomorrow morning and you can show me. You can reach me through SJDA main office line, 279-1775. I will do what I can through SJDA and the downtown council office to specifically address the issue. Meanwhile, as I mentioned already, the newly formed property based investment district (PBID) downtown, formed by SJDA, is specifically designed to address keeping the sidewalks clean.
#22 (Tom McEnery)—
I can only report what I have observed.
#40 Don
I apologize. I was wrong. You weren’t the first to mention those two items.
Thanks for the offer but my fellow tenants and I are directly in touch with our council member and other responsible parties related to the problem. We really don’t need you to help with the clean-up of the pee problem, but our building supervisor might appreciate it. What we would like to see you clean up are the businesses, some of them members of your organization, that are responsible for creating the downtown context that has brought these problems here for the past 2-3 years.
Can someone help me with this question.
I seem to remember the City Council discussing giving the police the power to shut down a club if it meets some type of a nuisence criteria.
Is that correct?
If it is correct, do the police now have that power?
If so, have they used it?
Have any clubs met whatever criteria was defined?
#41 (Jack)—
If you want help with cleaning up certain unspecified businesses that are part of the problem you posit, please identify those businesses by name and for each specify what it is that they are doing that is objectionable or illegal. It’s really not too much to ask. As said before, if I can verify the problem I will do what I can to help.
I know that one of the concerns that some downtown clubowners have is that they are being unfairly tarred with an overly broad brush. From what I have heard on this blog, their concerns are well taken. I defy you or anyone else to tell me, for example, that Britannia Arms, Smoke Tiki Lounge or Trials Pub are part of any problem in our downtown. From what I have observed, they are not.
And to the extent downtown association boardmembers (most of us who are not ourselves clubowners) are being blamed for every alleged problem in the downtown, the charges border on defamation.
KBF – I’m not going anywhere! We share a middle name, same spelling, I took it for Confirmation, worried the nuns!
Don –
Stop with the “broad strokes” and “defamation” comments…You know, as well as everyone else that has ever visited downtown after 10pm or reads the paper, which clubs are bad.
As I see it, no one is trying to say that ALL entertainment businesses downtown are bad – does everyone agree with that statement? – the problem “nightclubs” or “entertainment venues,” you can use any term you want, are the ones that are run by people who care nothing about downtown except for making money at its expense, don’t invest any money in their business – therefore can walk the moment business goes bad – and have at least two murders per year take place on or because of their establishments (see Taste nightclub where a guy was murdered when he was run over by the car of the person he got in a fight with inside the nightclub, and see Miami Beach club, owned by Harry Evans, where several automatic weapons were fired at cops as the assailants from Oakland fled from the club and parking lot, and see Scores “sports bar” (haha), also owned by Harry Evans where a stabbing just took place and where their liquor license was suspended for serving underage drinkers).
Now I don’t think these kinds of things are happening at Britannia Arms, Smoke Tiki House, or Trials Pub. I frequent those places and they are running legitimate businesses that are good for downtown. What does legitimate mean? It means the owners have invested a lot in downtown, are here long term and care about what happens in the core because the success of their business depends on that.
No one should have to point this out. It is well known.
The clubs that are legitimate have nothing to worry about. They must inherently know that. It is the other ilk (as stated above) that need the powerful lobbying arm to deal with the cops, downtown association and the city permitting depts to get themselves approved and functioning.
#40- Don, it was very kind of you to offer to go see the urine at Jack’s residence, and report back to the DTA. I also appreciate your taking part in the discussion here on SJI. I think if you really want proof you can bring back, one Saturday or Sunday morning, organize your SJDTA members and walk through any of the residences, and garages near these clubs. You will see and smell the urine, garbage, and broken bottles yourself.
Jack and his neighbors are doing the correct thing by involving their Councilperson because he represents them, and has the authority to do something immediately about the problem. By doing this they are documenting, with the Council Member’s assistance the severity of the issue.
I do want to point out one important thing about your posts, by using the term, “alleged,” you are either intentionally, or unintentionally calling Jack and others a liar. If that isn’t your intention, then perhaps you could reframe from making those types of inflammatory definitions. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is important here.
Everyone who has an issue with DT has personally seen these things, and understandably get defensive and angry with you, when you make comments that sound like we’re telling untruths because you personally haven’t seen it. Not seeing it doesn’t make it untrue.
Hopefully, in future, as a good faith effort, you will heed the requests of Tom and Jack and start working with landlords, and club owners to address these issues, whether you’ve seen them yourself or not. It’s the only fair thing to do.
#42- I seem to recall you are correct about that. I don’t know what the requirements are though. I am sure there’s a certain process that would need to be followed first like so many complaints, or violations before it can be done. I’m not sure though. Does anyone out there know?
#43- Don, again, with all due respect you seem to be taking the side of the club owners. When I’ve been downtown and have seen fights, drinking, and yelling, it is happening ALL over the place, INCLUDING in front of the places you’ve quoted. When I’ve been in different garages, I have seen people urinating, fighting, throwing bottles, or having sex.
You might want to sit down with Chief Davis and get the names of the clubs that are frequently involved in these problems, or start reading the newspaper. I am really having the most difficult time believing how truly out of touch with these issues you are. Wow.
Club owners are allowing the sale of alcohol to customers who are already smashed and that is illegal. They are allowing underaged, non customers to hang around their front doors drinking and fighting, rather than having their bouncers run them off. These club owners need to be held accountable NOW~
#43 Don,
No one is blaming the downtown association for “every alleged problem in the downtown”.
Where is this stated in any prior posting? Your assertion that this is “borderline defamation” is ridiculous. By being a board member of the DTA you decided to put yourself in the public position of constructive scrutiny and criticism. You do not get a free pass just because you are ostensibly doing something out of the goodness of your heart; it goes with the territory. I have done the same in volunteer postions I have undertaken as a board member and coaching. It is uncomfortable at times, but certainly not defamation. You and others in your position are well aware of which clubs are problems and which conduct business responsibly. You don’t need Jack, Tom, or anyone else to escort you to the problem clubs. Again, on any given day these clubs can appear to be an assest to downtown. You need to look at the long term track records as being the barer of material facts, not just a single day. The names of these clubs and the associated problems have been described ad nauseum, and are far from being “unspecified businesses”. If you need police reports contact the police department.
Anyone who denies there are certain clubs causing obvious problems, and needs an escort to point out these problems can’t really spend too much time downtown or stay in tune with the media. You come off as extremely defensive to the point of blinding easily objective and quantifiable facts. You state, “if I can verify the problem I will do what I can to help.” If the obvious information that is readily accessible does not verify to you the glaring problems, there is no one day tour that is going to change your opinion. If you want to get a personal feel for downtown problems, go out with the cops for a 10 hour shift on a Friday and Saturday night for a few months in a row.
Don – #43 –
I agree with Dave. Anyone who has been involved with a group, club, non-profit, or has volunteered knows that you are judged by the group you are helping. So the ‘defamation’ comment is rediculous.
The DTA is not doing anything about the abuses cited here on this blog, and is therefore being called to question for it. The DTA knows well what the problems are, which clubs are causing them, and what the factors are that are contributing to this problem. Has the DTA reached out to the Mayor and Council and/or the Police Chief with your solutions, or to offer your assistance in solving these problems?
Don #43
The troublemakers we are talking about are certain nightclubs and you know which ones they are. Ask Chief Davis.
You are way off base. The DTA isn’t being blamed for the problems we are talking about. We are offering your very public organization honest criticism. We are saying that your attitude that you have expressed in your comments above supporting the way things currently stand is wrong and we are urging you to change direction. Honestly, your organization isn’t anything but a trade group that looks after the interests of certain downtown businesses who are members. Nothing more. That’s fine. It’s obvious that the DTA doesn’t exist to look after the interests of residents or citizens of the city at large.
There are hundreds of good, legit businesses downtown that include the three you mention as examples in #43 above. I have frequented them all myself. There are perhaps a dozen so-called “nightclubs” (the ones that paste glossy handbills on everyon’e car showing scantilly-clad young women who will appear in “hot wet and wild” shows and advertising “all you can drink for one price” special evenings) that have moved in here the past 2-3 years and have created the culture that has brought the problems to everyone else.
None of us gives a damn what goes on in these places as long as it is legal and we can’t smell, hear or see it. However, outside on the public streets, patrons of these establishments have created numerous problems which we have discussed ad infinitum on this site for the past year or more.
Don, downtown is my home and has been for eight years. I want it to be a comfortable, safe, clean, peaceful and fun place for people and families of all ages 24 hours a day. I have seen the changes for the worse with my own eyes and heard them with my own ears. I don’t have to live here, but I want to. I love all the amenities, businesses and cultural institutions that I can walk to. Why throw all of that potential away for the sake of a few troublemakers? It seems to me that the best interests of the vast majority of the members of your organization and my own and the other DT residents are pretty much the same.
32- I think the point that unreal was making is that you by signing your first name makes you just as anonymous as me signing anonymous blogger, or him (or her?) signing ‘unreal’. I might as well sign my name Kathleen as well. Or Mark, or Bill, or George Berlin. You’re still just as anonymous, so no need for your high horse. And, I believe that you’re the one that brought it up, so you actually brought the subject off topic.
#30 – couldn’t agree more. way to go, sjpd. they have made the city safer for my kids and yours. that girl is in my prayers.
Don G.
Hey, wake up! Of course, those you mention are not a big problem, but people “have” been knived, shot at, and murdered in the downtown in recents times. Also, the clubs in SoFA are a major impediment to the success of that area: The DTA lobbies for some of the same problem clubs, and one problem landlord, namely, Richard Berg. You are too smart a guy not to know your old friend, Ron Gonzales, and some of his crony/lobbyists, did all possible to grease the wheels for some bad operations. People have been hurt, frightened and bothered. Didn’t you hear Scott, your Ex. Director, only this morning decry the state of political corruption of one year ago ( guess who was Mayor) and hail the new officials. You didn’t have many observations in past years to my knowledge on that topic. Again, don’t play the “see no evil” role – it doesn’t fit you, and it doesn’t help downtown or ‘your neighborhood. TMcE
Last year, I sat on the Mayor’s Transition Sub Committee for Public Health and Safety. The majority of what we discussed at length, were all the contributing factors of the DT situation.
There were as follows:
Out of towners coming in and causing trouble.
Business owners not controlling the amount of alcohol served in their clubs.
Under aged youths outside the clubs causing trouble.
Curfew violations not being enforced.
ABC laws not being enforced.
The former IPA’s handy work in not allowing club owners to contract with off duty Police Officers to keep things under control.
Too much Police racial profiling, excessive force and presence in DT, was frightening off customers.
Fly by night event holders with events resulting in drawing troublemakers to DT.
(There might have been more, but these are the main issues we addressed.)
One of the main things that we kept coming back to was the lack of responsibility of these club owners, and the landlords. If these businesses really cared about something other than profits, this would not be happening. Soft closings are helping stop traffic congestion, and helping Officers in handling violent people and large drunken crowds more effectively. The Police are enforcing curfew laws more, and I hope they’re being tough on clubs breaking laws of serving too much booze to already intoxicated people.
After seeing the responses of Don, and assuming the rest of his clan are in line with his way of thinking and seeing things, I can pretty much see why things haven’t changed. I can also see why people who really do care about our city give up trying to make things better because this kind of stonewalling, and denial is very sad.
#45- and Dave, you are both right on. But I fear your words of reason are falling on very deaf ears. Don has his mind made up, and nothing is going to change his view of the situation. It’s like going before the Mayor, and Council on an issue you feel strongly about, watching them roll their eyes, or look at you with disinterest, after you have shown them undeniable proof of why your position on the issue is correct. Only to have them take a quick vote opposing you. It’s frustrating and disheartening, but in the end at the end of the day, at least you spoke your truth. Heard or not. Respected or not, you had enough integrity to participate in making San Jose a better place.
Can someone please explain to Kathleen that even though she uses the name Kathleen. She is the equivilent of an anonymous blogger.
Kathleen Doe I do hope you are saying your identifing yourself is meant as a joke. If you’d like to identify yourself, leave a last name, email something.
My, My!
I spent my morning coffee reading this thread on down town.
It reminds me of that needy child that has to have all the attention by being naughty.
The billions that have been spent in the downtown core, since Frank Taylor’s reign have yet to evolve, if ever.
Like San Francisco, we must go thru the rites of passage to be a great international city. We need more negative stuff, they had opium dens. We can’t even snag the Meth dealers down town or in all of our schools. They doped and shanghaied unsuspecting sailors. Hell, all we have is folks urinating in the dark corners of parking garages. San Francisco had Tongs, and The Vigilante Society all we have is Vatos Locos and a few pukers,according to some.
The only thing that came close was having our own Emperor Norton. Trust me some day we will laugh about that. Right now it’s to painful!
The 60 percent school drop out rate and the epidemic of Meth thru out our school system. Rapes that go unpunished!
The substandard living conditions that still exist next door to the troubled Mexican Heritage Plaza, where multiple families cram some of those lead infested houses, and the Mayfair money keeps being devored by some unknown project.
San Francisco had the 1906 Quake, they have the 49ers, we have Larry Stone, You go Larry!
They have Alcatraz, we have Elmwood.
My thought for this beautiful Saturday Morning is, do we really want to be an International City. Or would it be ok to be the best place to live in the world and simply reinvent the wheel on a weekly basis, as we have been doing for the past 40+ years.
I was there for every major development as a foundry man. Whether you check out your groceries or get cash at an atm, Many of these folks that designed weren’t brought in from some country over seas. They were regular Joe’s.
The Corporations that live here must support education here, NOW! The future of our life style is at risk. We’re building Little Saigons, yet the harrassment continues of the brave soles that leave their homes for El Norte, to, Pick Fruit? How many of us would have the cajones to even start such a journey of uncertainty. The good news is all of the peaches and purnes, olives have been harvested in Oroville. The rancher’s money’s in the bank. Who picked all of their fruit? No one seems to know.
Think I’ll take a walk down by the river, should be lots of humanity floating out to Alviso with this first good rain.
Now there’s some thing San Francisco has’nt got ,beautiful rivers. Well they will be once we get all the shopping carts out of them.
The Village Black Smith
Gil,
I agree that money used in failed DT projects would have been better spent in our communities, on schools, community centers, libraries, streets, pools, Police, Fire, and other vital services. I also agree that with big cities come big problems that unfortunately, no one seems to be taking into consideration.
I worked in Victim Offender Mediation at the County for over four years, and I sat on the Mayor’s Transition Sub Committee for Public Health and Safety. I can tell you that we have a larger gang problem than you know. I interviewed and worked with gang members of every race, religion, and color. During our committee meetings, David Pandori brought in some very alarming stats on the seriousness of gang problems that goes very much unpublicized. This is an issue that really needs addressing fast, quick, and in a hurry.
As to who picks fruit, I must say a few things here. If we look at the history of our country, just about every race of persons of low income and little to no education has had the job. I myself, as a teenager, worked in a farmer’s orchard picking fruit to earn money to help my family. If you look at the forming of Unions in this country, you’ll see that poor African Americans, poor whites, and just about every race you can think of has worked in jobs, that few today would do, regardless of race. In the south today, many poor whites, and blacks STILL work out in the fields.
Stereotyping is a dangerous thing. It creates division and hatred. I cannot think of a single race, religion, etc., that hasn’t been treated poorly. To say that no white person understands scrubbing floors, doing dishes in a hot greasy restaurant, working in the fields, or any other low paid manual job is just plain ignorance. I have scrubbed many a toilet, floor, washed many a dish in a restaurant kitchen, moped many filthy floors to help my family, to pay my rent, and my way through college. And that is the key to all of this regardless of your race, an education is the key to getting out of a nowhere, low paying job.
And finally, many of us do know what immigrants go through to get here. My mother and sisters escaped Nazi Germany to come here. My mother was buried alive in Germany, during a bombing and couldn’t sleep without lights on at night. I have many Vietnamese, and Indian friends that I love and respect very much, who have been through horrible things in their country, and here in the US. So please remember, no one race has the corner on suffering. We are one people in this thing together~
K Flynn #54
Thank you for your post of your past life. It must have been very dificult for you and your family.
Life has a way of repeating it’s self, does’nt it.
I am glad my post inspired you to disclose what you and your family were put thru.
My post was not looking for a concenses, nor was it about immigration, or gang issues. .
My Saturday morning post was simply a way to accept that there are many folks in this delema, and do we really want to put all of our energy in the down town core , when there is so much city that contributes to our existance.
I’m have a wonderful day here visiting with my children. I even went out this morning and purchased some illigally harvested peaches, cucumbers, and grapes at our grocery store. I had to dodge the produce police. It was kinda fun actually. Given the way things are going it may be a crime to buy illigally harvest produce in the near future. Wine? Forget about it. They will have to lable all products like they do cigarettes etc. This tomato was picked by Social Security # #######.
$8.49 per lb. or $80.00 for ten lbs. Nice! Eh?
Ok, lets go back to the down town core forget I even brought up the subject of good ole fashion Americana in our lives. You are so right saying,“we are one people in this together”. Let’s tell the others, OK?
Gil
Gil,
I really want to thank you for bringing up the topics you did because too often we avoid these kinds of much needed discussions. By showing respect for, and acknowledging a common struggle, we can then begin to understand that regardless of our race, religion, or culture, we really are just human beings doing the best we can with what we have. Thank you for your compassion but what I have lived through has thankfully allowed me to be sensitive to others, and to become one hell of a strong, proud woman!
I personally, object to illegal immigration for many reasons, but mostly because our country must have rules that need to be obeyed by everyone, equally. My Mother and sisters went through a very long, and expensive citizenship process, as have millions of others. I think justice and fairness dictates the same must be abided by for all, regardless of race. American citizens have legal rights that protect them in this country, and unfortunately, illegal immigrants don’t have the rights they need to protect them from employer abuse, or other kinds of abuses.
In my work as a mediator, I’ve seen too many legal and illegal immigrants exploited, robbed blind, and badly treated because they didn’t know the language, nor do they understand the laws of this country, and because they segregate off to themselves. I can’t tell you how angry and deeply affected I am when I see immigrants getting abused, but I also know that we must all take responsibility for our choices.
I’m also deeply touched by your work in the community. I think you deserve acknowledgement for your civic mindedness, and your compassion towards people and their struggles. Thank you for all you do.
As to DT, I think the article in tonight’s paper on the public’s General Plan meeting at City Hall, addressed some of the concerns we all have about the violence in DT. God willing things just might improve with so many people speaking out about these irresponsible club owners. I’ve got my paws crossed for better days in DT!
Hi Gil,
No matter what our roots, our ancestors have all been on the short end of the stick at some point. If you want to watch a very funny parody on the subject may I suggest Mel Brook’s “History of the World: Part 1”. I feel a certain affinity with the Jews during the scene making light of how they were tortured and killed during the Spanish Inquisition. My Jewish roots have been traced back to that period in time. By the grace of God I did not live through that or Nazi Germany, and my people have collectively found a way to move on, like so many other ethnic and racial groups.
K. Flynn # 56
Your point on illigal immigration is well taken. However there is an underlieing force that drives that migration of folks from where ever to these rich productive valleys and farms, vineyards, dairies, construction work, need I go on?
Can you guess what that force is? Of course you can.
Try boycotting anything that is touched by an illigal individual.
Ask any American indian about illigal imigration.
In trying to keep a perspective on the past, I see that many American Indians still are in reservations, the south and north still cling to old racist ways. Yet when we invade another country or declare war upon them, they seem to be assimulated into the American dream. Japan, Vietnam, China, soon a new wave of people will be placed into our society.
I’m not certain but is there a line of countries that would like to be invaded next?.
Please take a number! Right now we’re dealing with Iraq!
Darn! How long is that going to take?
The fact is Kathlene, there isn’t much that you come in contact in your normal life that is not at one point passes thru the hands of an illigal man, woman or child.
What I find so interesting is that we trust illigally harvested produce, etc, etc. When was the last time you went to Zanotos and picked up an apple and wondered if the stem was a fuse?
It’s easy to kick the dog for barking because it’s too risky to see that your neighbors house is being burglerized. That’s what dogs do. They alert.
It’s too risky to deal with the real culprets. It’s time to stop and deal with the real issues. In the mean time continue to buy illigally harvested items. Hire a gardener, painter, manny, housekeeper, dishwasher, resturant cook, as you said we’re all in this together. The truth is you need them and they need you.
I have been traveling thru out this state photographing the “American” Farm Worker for 40 years. Tracking the produce that they harvest. Where it is sold and who consumes it.
Greed devores the lives of many unsuspecting workers. You don’t know the half of it.
Some one with a better understanding of national diplomacy is better suited to fix the problem at the national level. Let’s not point a finger while holding a half eaten apple in the same hand.
It has been a pleasure exchanging ideas with you. Thank You!
Gil
“Try boycotting anything that is touched by an illigal individual. “
That’s going to get easier and easier and the produce will be cheaper and cheaper.
Farm mechanization is growing
With authorities promising tougher border tactics, farmers who rely on immigrant labor are eyeing an emerging generation of fruit-picking robots and high-tech tractors designed to do everything from pluck premium wine grapes to clean and core lettuce.
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695212040,00.html
I agree with much of what you’ve said Gil. I understand your thoughts on this. I think our capitalist society will one day rue the way it has treated hard working, decent people, animals, and the planet all for profit. One day these big businesses, not all because some are very good to their employees, will come to pay the piper.
I agree to with your comments about native Indians. I know many races have treated them horribly. Our ancestors raped their land, their women, and slaughtered many beautiful animals, again for power, money and profit. I have visited a few reservations and it saddens me deeply. The HIV rate, and alcoholism rate is alarming. A proud people who respected the land and animals, who still do, have been reduced to very little.
Yes, I do often think about where our food comes from. No offense but, I’m getting to the point of wondering what is really in the food these days! E-coli, and all kinds of frightening things. I don’t think standards of cleanliness are a top priority here, and in other countries. Uck. But your point is well taken.
I don’t hire illegals to do work for me because legal citizens need to feed their families too, and I believe hiring undocumented workers drives the wage down here in the US. Labor Unions fought too hard for a fair wage, and I can’t in good conscience undermine that effort.
Thank you too Gil. I’ve enjoyed exchanging viewpoints with you as well. You sound like a nice guy.
Dave, speaking of Jewish folks. My fiancé took me to see Judd Hirsh’s film at the Camera 12 today, and to the Champaign reception after. Wow! His new movie, “Brother’s Shadow” was just incredible! It was the first movie I’ve seen in some time that deeply explored the relationships of men with their father’s, sons, brothers, and wives, or girl friends. It was interesting to me, that even though the film is intended to explore some of the Jewish ideals in a family, how very similar it is to so many other cultures. Rarely, do I get to see movies about men, their feelings, relationships, and struggles. I found that very exciting, and enlightening. It is a real must see! I learned things about the Jewish culture I had never known before.
I deeply enjoyed it. Mr. Hirsh was very delightful, and funny! I’m an easterner too, and I can’t recall being in a room filled with so many Jewish people at one time, since I visited Conn. two years ago. It was WONDERFUL! I love the blunt way they speak, and the way they love their families. Made me home sick I’ll tell you. We Irish folks don’t differ from you much!
Kathleen you are going to have to find a new hobbie. I just don’t think this is working out for you here, I love to visit this site because it’s fun and every now and then I learn something. As for your take on Don G I’ve known him for over 10 years and he speaks the truth as he sees it and that’s all we can ask here. Think golf that’s a good sport for you I think it will get you out of the house for 5 hours and give us all a break, and practice, practice, practice….
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( woman ) do nothing.” (Edmund Burke) seems to apply to Downtown Association and their ” See No evil ” therefore DT doesn’t have to do anything attitude
If a few clubs, owners and promoters are as many say majority of problems then as #45 did let everyone know who they are and what are the facts about their actions or customers
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men ( woman ) do nothing.” ALSO applies to those who know about problems and don’t file complaints about downtown club with CA ABC and San Jose Code Enforcement
You can take individual action by filing complaints against clubs, owners and promoters
1) There are few CA ABC violations listed for ” problem” clubs mentioned Click license # for owner, address and violations
See http://www.abc.ca.gov/datport/AHCityRep.asp
for list of SAN JOSE- (On-Sale Licenses) Report as of 10/15/2007 with names and addresses
Use Internet to look up phone numbers if you want to verbally complaint to club owners – http://switchboard.intelius.com/
Harry Evans represents Miami and Scores
Suzanne Lai, Lido’s Nighclub at San Jose Club Owners Meeting with city officials
CA ABC Rules, Penalty Guidelines and Public Records requests
http://www.abc.ca.gov/LawsRulesReg.html
http://www.abc.ca.gov/trade/Penalty Guidelines.pdf
http://www.abc.ca.gov/forms/ABC-586.pdf
Does not seem that CA ABC complaints have been made to back up many club problems
CA ABC 3927 Lennane Drive, Suite 100
Sacramento, CA 95834
(916) 419-2500
[email protected]
San Jose CA ABC Office
100 Paseo de San Antonio, Room 119
San Jose, CA 95113
(408) 277-1200
[email protected]
Enforcement Programs http://www.abc.ca.gov/programs/programs.html
After your call or email fill out ABC Customer Survey
http://www.abc.ca.gov/customersurvey/customer_survey.html
2) San Jose Code Enforcement for Health and Safety Violations 408-277-4528 File a complaint A warning letter is sent for alleged violations and/or an Inspector is assigned the case. Anonymous complaints are not accepted. All information is kept confidential.
http://www.sanjoseca.gov/codeEnforcement/
The Code Enforcement Division enforces regulations related to the following:
# Conditions of an existing structure that constitute a clear and present danger to the public.
# Building Code violations (building, plumbing, electrical, mechanical, etc.), including construction or change of occupancy without permits.
# Zoning Ordinance requirements for structures (such as use, location, configuration and size) and land use requirements.
# Hazardous weeds on private, developed property.
# Graffiti
# Signs, including signs in the public right-of-way, failure to have required permits, illegal inflatable displays, balloons and pennants.
# Inoperable vehicles on private property.
# Blight on private and public properties. (old furniture, car parts, appliances, etc.)
# Illegal dumping.
# Smoking in enclosed public places
Downtown is Redevelopment area so Blight complaints can be made ( Blight fine – $ 250.00 ) along with health ( public urination ) and unsafe conditions
3) Call San Jose Police to make a Complaint if not there is NO record of club problems just talk
Call 911 for crimes in progress or 311 to report abandoned vehicles, noise disturbances, thefts, vandalism and other crimes not in progress to San Jose Police
San Jose Crime Reports by neighborhood
http://www.crimereports.com/map?search=San Jose, CA
A few people can make changes necessary by filing complaints and after many complaints have been files individuals can take small claims court actions against proptery owners and clubs under SJPD Neighborhood Action program
This works it is how San Jose neighborhoods get rid of problem property owners, gangs, illegal liquor sales to minors / drunks and drug houses
#61-Taxpayer,
The Panther In the Jardin des Plantes, Paris
His vision from the constantly passing bars, has grown so weary that it cannot hold anyting else. It seems to him there are a thousand bars; and behind the bars, no world. As he paces in cramped circles, over and over, the movement of his powerful soft strides is like a ritual dance around a center in which a mightly will is paralyzed. Only at times, the curtain of the pupil lifts, quietly—- an image enters in, rushes down through the tensed, arrested muscles, plunges into the heart and is gone.
Staying blind to the problem, and making personal attacks on those who express concerns about them, won’t make the problem go a way.
Novice # 59
Thanks for that vote of confidence on the issue. It is difficult to not come into contact in our every day life with out touching anything that was not touched first by another human, that some one has termed illigal.
I belive the national political acceptance of food processing from planting to distribution by humans will be solved long before we invent a machine to displace what farmers, ranchers and farm workers find, works for them. Presently, so much is being imported from other countries, and that will continue to increase as California gets more pressuse on the immigration issue by critics who don’t grow beans. Seems we did this with our heavy industries, and now technologies.
In the mean time hire the kid down the block, post your needs at the local high schools and at the union hall. But please, let’s stop the critisium and look inside for that spark we seemed to have missplaced.
It’s at moments like this I miss our sage Leonard McKay. Our way of life is being taken from us by ctitics. You said it best Kathleen. “We’re all in this together”. Let’s tell everyone!
Gil