Back when he was mayor, spearheading the renovation of a then-decrepit downtown, Tom McEnery had to fend off charges that his vision of a thriving retail-and-entertainment district was rooted in a desire to enrich himself and his family, which owns a significant chunk of downtown real estate. Twenty years later, those charges have re-emerged, following a 9-1 City Council decision last week to consider a request for $6 million in redevelopment money for the San Pedro Square neighborhood where the McEnerys do business.
A Merc story about the deal was pointed in its focus on “questions about McEnery’s influence at City Hall.” The piece made reference to unnamed sources who, the article said, “are openly wondering whether McEnery has influenced Mayor Chuck Reed, whose transition committee he chaired last year.” Reed denied the charges, saying he barely recalled talking to his old colleague about the deal. McEnery declined to comment for the Merc piece, but told me this week that the story was “a big nothing-burger.”
“My family has invested tens of millions of dollars in that neighborhood over four generations,” he said. “And we’re about to invest $10 million more.” He pointed out that the city spent $19 million on a similar plan for Fountain Alley, and spends $3 million “on street-sweepers.”
“This proposal benefits the city more than it benefits my family,” he said.
Meanwhile, a nightclub owner who rents space from one of McEnery’s business partners has filed a lawsuit against the city charging that the San Jose Police Department, responding to political pressure from McEnery, is trying to drive him out of business. Attorney Anthony Pagis represents Ray Shafazand, who ran the restaurant and dance club Cuccini for four years. A few months ago, Shafazand hired two local promoters, who had run the popular Taste Ultra Lounge around the corner from Cuccini, to reinvent his club. The two promoters were available because they had been evicted from the building that housed their business.
The eviction came after Tom McEnery bought the building. Attorney Pagis says Shafazand’s landlord, Frank Cucuzza, now wants his client out. Cucuzza is partnered with McEnery for the new San Pedro Square venture. Pagis says the SJPD has refused to renew the club’s entertainment license, usually a formality following a simple name-change. Part of the problem may be Cuccini’s new name, “Sabor”—Spanish for “Taste.”
Isaac Barrera, one of the former owners of Taste, now working for Shafazand, believes McEnery is behind his boss’s new problems with the SJPD. “It’s all about McEnery not wanting the young, single Hispanic crowd” around San Pedro Square, Barrera says. “They don’t want our demographic downtown,” he says. “They want to go older and whiter.”
Karl Hoffower, a retired chiropractor who sits on the board of the Silicon Valley NAACP, says he believes Barrera’s charge has merit. “What people are starting to say, ‘If you’re black or brown, don’t go downtown,’” Hoffower reports, “it’s a catchy phrase, but unfortunately, it resonates.”
McEnery, disgusted, declined to even respond to the charges that any of this has anything to do with race. But in a previous conversation he made no bones about what he sees as somewhat of a scourge downtown: “One thing we did in this proposal—and the city should be grateful—we eliminated the nightclubs.”
I agree with the poster who said we should pull the nightclubs out of downtown and spread them out around San Jose. I think nightlife for younger folks is necessary, but I don’t think all this drinking, fighting, shooting, violence, and public urination etc., should be taking place no matter where the clubs are relocated.
In every city and state I’ve lived in, downtown has always been a place for families to go and have clean innocent fun. Race was never even an issue in all these diverse cities and it shouldn’t be now, especially given that whites are now the minority here. DT San Jose is missing out on many opportunities to bring some pretty awesome businesses into its fold. We have so much diversity the skies the limit.
As to the continual bashing of McEnery’s wanting to improve his properties, and bring better businesses to SJ, yawn. It is really getting old. The Mayor and Council are only focused on the revenue his businesses and will bring our city, and the new jobs these businesses will offer us. The better the businesse is in DT, the more revenue the city gets, the more money the city has to give us all the vital services we need.
I think Labor has a bigger strangle hold over our city than McEnery does, and has for too long. Business is now fighting back. I guess this is just another example of how the sword cuts both ways~
It was a happy day for all of us who live in the neighborhood, and there are many of us, when Taste Ultra Lounge closed down. The problems we were experiencing because of this “club” lessened noticeably overnight. These include drunken noisy crowds roaming the streets, copious amounts of vomit and urine, broken glass and bottles, brawls and worse, excessive noise from inside and outside the clubs, catcalling, etc. The city parking garage across the street was party central, a no-go area at night, and it was thoroughly trashed every weekend. All of this courtesy of the patrons of Taste and Cuccini and underaged wannabes, attracted to the clubs by sleazy “entertainment” and “all you can guzzle” drinking specials. The scene was so bad that the SJPD stationed a “paddy wagon” outside the clubs every weekend to process the offenders. Of course, all of this unpleasant nightly activity caused a decrease in business at established restaurants and bars around the block.
I find the Cuccini (Sabor) story unbelievable. It originally presented itself as a family-friendly Middle Eastern restaurant when it opened. In fact, it was only a front because it transformed itself into one of the biggest troublespots in town and, according to their own color advertising cards that they plaster on cars all over downtown, host to some of the sleaziest promotional entertainment you can imagine.
The charges of racial profiling are completely ridiculous. The reason is that the vast majority of the Taste/Cuccini clientele and almost all of the troublemakers are young white males. Anyone who lives in this area of downtown knows this to be the case, as do the police and the owners of these clubs. The McEnerys and Mr. Cucuzza are doing all of us a favor by getting these two irresponsible establishments, who obviously don’t care a flying fuck about their residential or small business neighbors, out of our neighborhood and, hopefully, out of town. Good riddance to them.
Very well said Jack. I’ve noticed that the race card seems to rear its ugly head every time these idiots want to avoid responsibility for their crappy, unlawful, disruptive behaviors. Its a shame because when racial profiling is really happening it is suspect, thanks to ass hats like these who ruin it for people who are truly being abused. This BS needs to stop. We’re all sick to death of it.
Jack,
Firt of all let me tell how impressed I am and how articulate you sound as you choose your choice of curse words. This isnt the first posting I have read from you that you choose to you this language. You seem so angry poor guy maybe you dont get out much and have a bunch of bottled up frustration. In any case I ran Taste Ultra Lounge and am proud to say that we were the only nighclub that has never receieved a citation by ABC, SJPD or Vice. Be more resourceful and look up all the permits for yourself before you decide to give your opinion on Taste it will make you seem less ignorant. We were far from irresponsible operators, our focus was to operate a clean business and we did. Heck even your Music in the park receieved 2 citations the other week. I would also like to inform you that your comment of most arrest were of young white males is also false and only shows more ignorance. Before you go making claims that you say are factual use your public resources and public records for guidance. I dont know who you are but I thank God your not defending our position. You must also be a big Thomas Fallon fan and love looking at the $800,000.00 statue of the man every time you get off on Julian? Whats happening to Ray is not only a racial issue but also a legal issue. Ray is an honest and hard working business man and your statements seem to be only out of hate and ignorance Lord knows most are not factual.
For the record, I’m Mexican-American (3rd generation San Josean) who wants the same kind of downtown that Mr. McEnery and many others want. If that means closing down nightspots that cater mostly to young adults but cause major problems, so be it! And also for the record, not ALL people (White, Black, Latino, Asian, etc.) are causing problems in the downtown. I’ve been to many a venue where people of all backgrounds had a good time in peace…it could happen in our downtown as well!
I see Tom downtown all the time. I’m always at the Starbucks picking up my morning cup on my way to work. He seems like a likeable fellow. Sometimes I go get a late cup in the evening, I stroll through San Pedro and walk by the few bars there and see the folks drinking and having a good time. Then it goes past 10 pm and it gets ugly.
Hey listen, one of the jokes on the groundfloor ie. the streets is that San Jose has picked up a nickname.. “Man Jose”. Meaning that alot of young 20 somethings simply don’t want to deal with all that BS. Not the hoods, thugs, fights, etc. So they leave to Santana Row or other locales in other parts of town. So maybe you can call it “hipster flight”.
Also, as for these club owners and promoters, stop catering to these fools. Pull yourself up and move to another part of town. Most of your clientele don’t even live downtown, if people are coming from Frisco and Oakland, trust me they will drive to the outskirts of San Jose, to attend a “hip hop” club. Hey look I am not a hater, but lets be real. I am a part of this community, I am a person of color and it saddens me to see all these fools act out, and reinforce every negative stereotype imaginable.
hey after you’re done with San Pedro clean up Cinco de Mayo, then we can talk!
Alfred, have you peaked your head into Straits recently? Or Sino?
I saw three bachelorette parties there last weekend, and I wasn’t there very long (just trying out Pizza Antica).
‘If you’re black or brown, don’t go downtown,’” Well, I’m white with freckles and wouldn’t think of going downtown with today’s crowds. Yes, Tom McEnery has had a vision of reviving downtown for decades, I recall him talking about it in the 60’s. What most of you don’t know is that the vision was to return San Jose’s downtown to it’s glory days that we can recall as children. There is no way to describe downtown to most of you, you wouldn’t believe it anyway. But, trust me, it was place where most could safely go;I qualify that statement only because of Brook Hart, which was an exception and before my time. I’ve gone through the litany of desirable stores and restaurants before on this site, so I won’t bother to do that again.
My view in a nutshell is what I wrote to the editors of The Mercury: “As a lifelong downtown resident I’m looking forward to frequenting the proposed new developments around San Pedro Square. Fortunately this city council made a right decision this time by subsidizing the area. I applaud all the families who have taken the initiative to develop this area over the years and think it’s about time the city help. Hopefully this boost will be the nucleus for a vibrant safe downtown.”
Quite frankly, I can’t imagine what downtown would be if it weren’t for the tutelary efforts of Tom McEnery over the years. Others, such as Frank Cucuzza were there taking a risk, enduring for decades when most wouldn’t put their big toe in the area.
And another thing while I’m at it, whenever money is involved a flag goes up. To those skeptics and critics out there, have you ever thought of what it took for these families to pay property taxes, insurances, etc. over the years when the area was dormant? Your minds can probably come up with some convoluted senario to justify your suspicions and criticism, but did you ever think they could have and probably now could sell out to some chosen city developer who’s interests are definitely profit oriented?
You see, Tom McEnery is a bridge between great old familiy community leaders such as Ernie Renzel, Al Ruffo, Howard Campen, etc. who truly had the community’s interest at heart and today’s pathetic excuses of those who attempt to run this city, exception Liccardo and Reed, I think they are decent and well intended.
Why don’t all of us work on some positive visions for downtown, the longer you revel in the negative, the longer it will take to be once again proud.
Jack,
You stated:
“The reason is that the vast majority of the Taste/Cuccini clientele and almost all of the troublemakers are young white males. Anyone who lives in this area of downtown knows this to be the case, as do the police and the owners of these clubs”
Taste and cuccini have latin clientele. Very few white clients. In your pathetic rants at least tell the truth. Don’t hide behind race and mis-information.
Taste is / was no picnic for downtown. But the main reason it is not welcome is RACE. Latino’s are not welcome in YOUR downtown.
At least tell the truth!! Or I will not allow you into O’Flarity’s any longer!@!!!!!!
I dont see why people aren’t commenting about the other clubs in San Jose that attract far more violence than Taste or Cucinni’s ever did! I loved going to Taste because I could go there without having to worry about several fights breaking out. There should be nothing wrong with young people having a good time in a nice club. Wouldn’t you rather have them out in a central location than disturbing residential neighborhoods??!! Anywhere you go in the country, downtown is where the nightlife is. If you dont like it then you shouldn’t live there!!! And I am a hispanic here in San Jose…my family has been here in San Jose for 10 generations and Taste was one of the best nightclubs San Jose has ever seen! I am all for San Jose bringing in profit and wealth to those that live here. I dont see why McEnery can’t work with nightlife and still have a profitable downtown area. Maybe he should expeand his tunnel vision and try to look at the big picture. I know there is no way for everyone to be completly happy but can’t we work on a happy medium? He should be focused on getting rid of the clubs that really make San Jose look bad and are place I would never go to just becasue I dont want to be caught in the crossfire of a stupid fight!
What I dont seem to understand is that why everyone isnt commenting on the shady politics and misuse of power McEnery is doing. I was born and raised in San Jose and love my city very much. But its a shame to experience what is going on, not only for TASTE but for all minority based businesses. Its easy to point the fingers and say oh well its black/brown violence. People have been using that same line for 50 years now. But no one wants to look into the real issue. TASTE rarely had any issues with the police, fightings, or anything that would be considered an issue. It boils down to the McEnery family has a vision alright, to benefit their family while ruining the lives of others. Alot of people will be unemployed and have kids to support from the closing of all nightclubs. But the McEnerys dont care as long as the rich keep getting richer and you know the rest. Everyone is looking at false claims of how bad downtown is, but this never happened at TASTE. We should be looking at the illegal practices that McEnery is doing and also SJPD, City Council, Mayor Chuck Reed and the court system. Im ashamed of San Jose for this!
In the Business #7
Thank you for your comment and for pointing out my error in my assertion that the vast majority of club patrons and troublemakers were young white males. I have reconsidered and now agree with you that I was wrong. I apologize to anyone who was offended by my statement. You imply that race has no place in this issue and I couldn’t agree more. In fact, what I should have said was that the vast majority of club patrons and troublemakers are young human males.
#8- jobless soon to be homeless,
I’m so sorry you lost your job. I don’t think there is a single person reading this that doesn’t feel compassion for your situation. I think it is awesome that you are going to school to better yourself. Way to go! I know from my own personal experience there is no future in being a waitress. Good luck to you.
The owners of these clubs are no doubt kind to their employees. I think it is wonderful that they were so good to you and your child. Having said that, I wish they had shown the same kind of respect and decency to the rest of us. The fact that so many citizens saw and complained about the unlawful, disrespectful behaviors of your customers, speaks volumes about the lack of responsibility your employers displayed toward our community. I read article after article in the Mercury News about the fights, drunks, property damage etc., and even witnessed the disastrous after effects of patrons exiting your club myself.
The landlord of any property has a legal obligation to ensure that the lessor is maintaining the safety and well being of the public, and he or she can use their own discretion as to whom to rent to. I think that given the actions of your former employer, Tom made a very wise and legally sound decision not to do business with him or his cronies again. I also think that your anger is misdirected. Had your former employer run a respectable business and controlled his patrons, he would not have lost his lease, nor would you be in the situation you are in.
Your former employer must have attended the Johnny Cochran School of Justice. Rule number One: Deny, deny, deny!
Rule Number Two: When you are guilty, pull the race card to remove the focus off the criminal and place it on the victim.
As a promoter and a patron of clubs in the downtown area, I believe that people on these comments are quick to judge and throw out comments that are fed to them by the media. If you were to compare San Jose with any other big metropolitan city in the bay area, women and men alike would say that downtown is a great place to be at because of the environment and because clubs are trying to cater towards a more upscale crowd. (in most cases) The owners at Taste, I believe did a very good job at building community and giving opportunities to people within the area, but because people can not co-exist so you want to shut them down. I believe that there is room for “San Pedro Redevelopment” but there is also room for “Taste” and “Sabor” which belong downtown as well. San Francisco has a great downtown and it also has clubs and bars surrounding it which people love to attend! There is room for everyone, but it sounds like and feels like someone just “HATING.” I put the word “HATING” in quotations because it is used as slang and describes a person or persons that, “When one puts down the success or fortune of others due to jealousy.”
Katherine #12
The area around Taste is a residential neighborhood. There are hundreds of us (soon to be many thousands when the new high rise residences are filled) within earshot of the place, and thousands more who frequent the many restaurants and bars in the neighborhood. I moved here ten years ago, long before Taste and Cuccini. This is my home. Now you are telling me that if I don’t like the trouble created by the proximity of these two newly-arrived clubs I should move out of my home—-that thousands of longtime local residents, small businesses and their patrons adversely affected by Taste’s and Cuccini’s irresponsible patrons should just pack up, move out and leave it to them? It doesn’t matter how many generations either of our families have been here, that’s still wrong. Why didn’t Taste and Cuccini set up business where they wouldn’t negatively impact any residents who already lived there? If they had, we wouldn’t even be discussing this issue, they would still be in business, and their unfortunate ex-employees would still have a job.
Wow, McEnery’s illegal activities? He is racist? He is getting rid of jobs? Those people can apply for jobs in the new places that go in.
I am really starting to wonder who is writing these posts and if they are real, because they are so ridiculous and outlandish….
#13—an unlucky number! You’re out of line, you have no concept of what downtown was, not a mecca for unruly, destructive types. It’s too bad your mind can’t reflect to what downtown looked like in the mid-60’s; you’d have to eat some of your words. Obviously, from your e-mail, you too work in the nightclub industry and have a selfish motive for the clubs to continue. Just remember if it weren’t for Tom you wouldn’t have the after crowds form the Arena. Not to mention the Fairmont, that was a parking lot before Tom’s term. You more than likely weren’t here, so you have no true perspective.
This is to respond to the comment posted by Mr. Jack Van Zandt. Hi my name is Ray Shafazand I am the owner of Cuccini now called Sabor. In the last 4 years of my operation as a restaurant / supper club in the san pedro Sq. I have catered to many corporate parties, weddings, bar mitzvahs and so on. I have also had some big named celebrities such as Jaime Foxx performing. I do not consider myself irresponsible and as you put it in your comment (one of the biggest trouble spots in town). The problem is by law we have to cease entertainment and sale of alcohol by 1:30am and every one out by 2am. When you have 3500 people exiting all bars and dance clubs within a few blocks from each other at once, there may be some altercations arising. Soft closing was introduced to the council and was supported but now there is the budget issue to . I do agree that the none experienced venue owners and the ones that they are just in it for the quick buck should be cited and perhaps their entertainment permit revoked. Downtown in any city is where the action is ie. Entertainment and the hype and if people like you think that it could become a retirement center YOU ARE WRONG my friend.Please see the reviews posted by the public for Saborhttp://www.yelp.com/biz/sabor-tapas-bar-and-lounge-san-jose#hrid:NTzZPG-HcVNs96NQf8q2NQ/query:sabor
the old Cuccini has been transformed in to a place where you could have great food and listen to good music and dance with your partner. Food was being served till closing. If I lived in downtown I would want to go to places like Sabor where I could be safe with my partner and have fun after 40hrs. of hard work for the week. But peole like Mr. Tom McEnery, Frank Cucuzza (my landlord) and you only see it one way and that is NIGHTCLUB. You say Santa Row, PLEASE come on now! There is more fight, stabbing and chaos in that spot every weekend than downtown San José. I see more and more under aged people entering Straights, Sino, Blowfish, Rosie Mac cans drinking and dancing. Where is the task force?? Where are all the A.B.C agents?
I am all about good customer service and great products but it was kind of hard to operate my business when I was diagnosed for triple cancer and had to go under many surgeries back to back and relay on managers to run my restaurant. That is why I changed the name to Sabor, re decorated the place and changed the menu to Tapas style so I could cater to the new and upcoming downtown and specially san Pedro Sq. unfortunately my landlord and his partners along with San Jose Police Dept have ganged up on me and trying to run me out of business. Just last Friday I recall reading an article on Merc. Regarding music in the other park where the police called code 3. Every time the music in the park starts their annual events, there is graffiti, fights, drunken people all over downtown but surprisingly enough the mayor Mr. Reed whom I supported his campaign financially and now ignores my issues totally steps in and mediates and gets their ABC lic back so there would be yet another music in the park with a code 3 and the chief of police calls for meeting. Mr. Tom McEnery had posted an article where he saw more than 20 police officers standing in front of a certain night club during closing hours and the rest of the city was short of officers. The truth is that most of these officers are there to check out the BABES. And in response to the “paddy wagon” well downtown police are very aggressive and harsh in enforcing the law. I do have a friend that captures police brutality on camera and showed me tons of footage where officers were brutally biting the people already handcuffed and on the ground. And finally, may be you should stop using such words as “flying fuck “. I think you must have hanged around Cuccini and Taste to have such language. I suggest you change your hang out to Santa Row!!!!!!!
Ray Shafazand
Dear Kathleen, I was working at Taste for 2 years as a cocktail waitress and making ends meet in todays screwed up economy. The owners were so kind to me and often times would buy toys for my son (yes I am a single mom) and work around my schedule. Working 6 days a week double shift just to make sure that I can provide a roof over my son’s and food on the table. When I was told that I was being laid off cause Tom McEnery and his partners have purchased the building and they do not want Hispanics in downtown and given the owners till the end of April of 2008 to get out, I almost had a heart attack!!! Where was I going to supplement my income?? Going to school, working at Starbucks and cocktailing at Taste was all I knew to do. As the result of me loosing my job at Taste! I had to give up my apartment and move in with roommates in a shared housing. Few month later I saw a posting for cocktail waitress with experience online and I applied and got the job. Great I said now I can get back on track and move up in life. Not so fast!!! The owner of Sabor where I got the job was served a 3 day notice to deliver the property to it’s owner Frank Cucuzza who is Tom McEnery’s partner. Hey what’s up with these guys??? They talk about creating more jobs yet they are taking jobs away from us???
What is Tom McEnery and his partners gonna do when Obama wins the election?? Buy united states and evict him???? There is nothing wrong with Black or Brown..After all this city is called SAN JOSE.
Jack, the building that Taste was in has long been home to nightclubs. Taste, Deep, Hamburger Mary’s (now that was fun- great sunday brunches!) and many years before that, in the 80’s, it was the laundryworks.
behind the DeAnza, roughly where Axis sits now, the former Tropicana club, prior to that Studio 57 (?) was originally the Palomar Ballroom (where the first rock and roll riot took place at a chuck berry show in the 50’s).
My point is that you’re a relative newcomer to the downtown. Entertainment and nightclubs have been down here for decades. Yes, folks are moving in but they are moving for an urban experience- which includes entertaInment within walking distance.
I would not patronize Taste and I agree that it did bring many knuckleheads to the area, but the authors on this site constantly lump all nightclubs into the same pile. San Jose needs more live music venues, more places to hang out, more dive bars and more upscale bars.
A full fledged war on all types of nightlife will backfire- it already has. We’ve lost the diversity that we had in the 90’s because you guys were so busy trying to gentrify the area…look what happened.
Kathleen,
You seem very educated and involved in our city of San Jose which is why I am respectfully commenting on your comments to this blog. First of all as stated above I am the owner of Taste Ultra Lounge and find what you say offensive. More because your comments are untrue. For all the police and so called paddy wagons in front of my venue every night you would think that I was operating a bad business. However I never received a citation from ABC, SJPD or Vice. Taste is one of the few places that can be proud of having a clean record. In addition to say that McEnery kicking me out was the right thing to do is more upsetting. What McEnery did was illegal and shouldnt be tolerated. We had a 15 year lease an were illegally evicted due to some BS that we were illegally subleassing the building. I paid lease payments for over 2 years and it wasnt cheap and invested over a million dollars into Taste Ultra Lounge. Although we were successful I didnt even get a return on my investment. I was was robbed of my business and mcEnery shouldnt be aplauded for it. In any case no I didnt go to the school of Johnny Cochrane and I dont deny and deny or pull out the race card as my 2nd rule. I have been told and have words in writing by the attorneys that are very discrimitory. I have always worked with SJPD to help improve things where Taste was located. Instead of giving your layman opinion of the type of operators we are check our records. Sure we had the occasional knucklehead that would be loud when they were leaving, we had your occasional fight but I assure you, you never read about a riot in front of Taste or any big problems. We were the 2nd largest nighclub in San Jose and we had very few issues. The problem is the public never gets to hear our side of the story. I will be the first to admit that downtown needs a clean up and that there is some trouble spots. However to go across the board and use political influence to illegally shut businesses down is wrong. I am a 36 year old business man and a father of 2 who was born and raised in San Jose. I would love San Jose the be a destination point and a place of interest but does McEnery really have the brains to make it happen? Probably not. He has real estate in prime locations, money and political power but thats it. He has a vision which I can appreciate but he is having a problem making his vision a reality. Why? Because nightclubs exist downtown? Thats crazy! Look at LA, NY, San Francisco, Chicago, Miami every big city has nighclubs downtown and the city thrives. What do they have that the San Jose doesnt. Better leadership and more economic sense. Instead of fighting us and strong arming us McEnery should be more involved with us and work with us.
6. This is the first time I’ve heard about crowds of young people flocking to the exciting nightlife in Santana Row.
Mr. Shafazand #20
I am truly sorry to hear of your health problems. According to what you wrote, the troubles at Cuccini originated during the period when you were dealing with your recovery from surgeries and your business was run by hired managers. I am afraid that they made a mess of things for you. It certainly explains a lot.
When you first opened Cuccini, I was very excited to have a friendly Middle Eastern restaurant in the neighborhood. That’s how you described yourself. Then, all of a sudden, Cuccini turned into the noisy nightclub from hell that plastered sleazy color ad cards touting scantily-clad women providing promotional entertainment all over the neighborhood practically every day.
I personally complained to the club’s bouncers about the noise several times, to little effect. For example, one Sunday night last summer the music coming from your outdoor area was so loud after midnight that my entire building, which is about 100 yards away, was shaking like there was an earthquake. Several residents called the police and the music soon stopped, but it shouldn’t have been necessary. No responsible manager would have done such a thing, especially on a Sunday night.
What I think I am hearing from you now is that what happened at Cuccini was outside your control and you are attemting to leave that legacy behind by relaunching as Sabor, which is intended to be a restaurant/bar catering to a much more mature clientele. If that is the case, then I wish you good luck with your venture wherever it ends up. It’s unfortunate that the managers that you hired to run Cuccini showed such poor judgement while you were ill. But as the owner of the business, you are responsible for the consequences.
Mr. Jack Van Zandt. #23
Yes indeed I started as a friendly Middle Eastern restaurant with entertainment bringing the best dishes from selected Middle Eastern countries. Most judges and attorneys downtown used to dine at my restaurant. There are some Middle Eastern food lovers downtown but not enough to support the over head after all Cuccini is 7500Sq. feet and over head of nearing $45k per month. In Sept 2004 I spent nearly $80k in promotions to attract family type crowed to support my restaurant and it took off. In October of 2004 I was notified by S.J PD that I had to cease entertainment since on the E.Permit clearly states””once the entertainment starts patrons must be over the age of 21””this killed me .Belly dancers are part of Middle Eastern tradition and Middle Easterns always dine along with their kids. Legally none of us restaurant owners can have weddings or any kind of social gatherings with live or DJ music . if I provide entertainment all customers have to be over 21. In a yearly average, I loose close to $250k in revenue for not being able to offer entertainment for the corporate, wedding etc… Events.
This is why I nearly eliminated the dance floor and placed more ottomans and tables so it feels more like a lounge than a NIGHTCLUB. I have been in the hospitality business since 1984 and believe me I know how it works. With 3 years left on my lease I spent tons of money to be the most upscale lounge downtown like Santa Row so people from Axis or 88 have something to brag about downtown when it comes to nightlife. Sabor was never given a chance. City said that they will support a venue where food and entertainment is provided. That is what Sabor is now. Nightclubs do not serve food. Here what the problem is ,,,,I hired Isaac and Carlos to help me promote to a very classy crowd, how is this accomplished?? Their capacity was well over 980+ and they had a very restrict dress code. My capacity is only 388 so I could be very selective of the patrons entering Sabor. All promotions are geared towards food. The first 3 night that we opened, Sabor was sold out with dinner being served till 1:30am super nice and mature crowed. Why wouldn’t a landlord want to have such a tenant? So you see sir I do care. Hard to believe ha`!!! Mr. John Mcenery and Mr. Cucuzza had told me in the past that I was a good operator and Cucuzza kept telling me “”kid, stick around San Pedro is about to change”’ but it is very hard when you have another restaurant behind you where you share an entrance with and the landlord allows him to put dining tables, chairs and a huge BAR in the middle of the shared entrance and he keeps turning off our wall signs lights when we are not looking. I was doing the best with what ihad to work with. Sabor’s beautiful view is a parking lot, an old printing building and if you look little further you could see the off ramp of hwy87 to Julian and next to stinky garbage dumpster shared by 17 tenants. I would love to invite all you who keep putting Sabor or it’s owner down for a delightful evening and have you try the food and look at the venue first hand. ON ME you will change your mind once you experience the Sabor.
Ray Shafazand
Well, it’s sad it had to come down to this. White VS Brown and Black. Just when we thought racism stopped, Tom Mcenery brings it back. Don’t let San Jose step back into the days of segregation. We are a culturally diverse city which is here to create opportunities for the culturally challenged. Nightclubs in San Jose are primarily ran by non-white affiliates, so when people like Tom Mcenery see this, he gets angry. Tom needs to really consider moving back to Alabama with the rest of the KKK and open up his developments their. Maybe an all white burrito stand that serves ground beef tacos will work. San Jose needs nightclubs to compete with the bigger cities such as LA, New York and San Fraancisco. Ask those cities how much revenue clubs and bars bring in. You will be surprised. Viva Mexicans, African, and Vietnamese!! The foundation the city of San Jose is now built on!!!
drinking, fighting, shooting hmmmmm i guess noone has been to the city or oakland or even sacramento…sj is probaley the only place i feel safe to go out.. Ive had friends killed in other citys and never have i felt un safe in sj…
My opinion is that the way that the economy is going we need to have a great place like Sabor Louge to forget about our bill and gas $$$$ increase San Jose needs more clubs and less complaining night clubs are fun and it brings more business for people here in San Jose I believe that as long as everyone pays for their dues as far as property and business taxes they have the right to give American citizens a little bit night life I don’t believe they are doing anyone wrong I believe that Sabor Lounge must open their doors with pride especial because it is high class club and we don’t have many of those in San Jose, I my self went to Sabor and my experience was great great great that I want to keep coming back for more and I don’t see a good reason why Sabor should close their doors we should help each other to make our economy IMPROVE, THE MORE CLUBS ARE OPEN DOWNTOWN LESS UNEMPLOYED PEOPLE THAT IS JUST THE BOTTOM LINE WE NEED TO HAVE MOORE GREAT CLUBS LIKE SABOR I WAS EXTREMATELLY DISAPOINTED WHEN I FOUND OUT WHAT THEY ARE DOING DOWNTOWN PLEASE HAVE MERCY FOR OUR COMMUNITY NOT EVERY ENJOYS STAYING HOME AFTER HAVING A HARD WEEK TRYING TO WORK OVERTIME TO PAY OUR GAS AND FOOD BILLS………..
Well lets see, Where to start… I feel that the loss of Taste is something that has a negative effect on San Jose. If you actually take a look at the Down Town San Jose area from a young adults point of view, you will find that it is almost impossible to find a place where you can experiencea a more upscale enviornment. Walking into a typical night at Tast, you can look around and see many young men and women dressed to impress, this is a definite difference from most of the other baggie clothed spots in Down Town. Moreover, it provides a great place to socialize without running into the typical ploblems you would find in other parts of San Jose. Ive read some of the comments above and it seems like these people are trying to highlight negative points that are constant both throughout San Jose, and the entire Bay Area, in an attempt to make Taste look like some sort of gateway to the underworld, where only bad things come out of…. This is far from the truth. I am personally glad that the Taste guys were able to come back from being bullied around, and you better belive that you can find me showing my support for them a the new Sabor Ultra Lounge….. DOWNTOWN!!!!
I’m from the Sacramento area a grip of people always flock to San Jose for the night life experience. This influx to the San Jose economy is what keeps it going, & without the nightlife entertainment, San Jose will lose its prestige among cities.
I have to second the owners of the downtown San Jose locations mentioned in the article. Downtown areas all over the nation thrive on nightlife entertainment, and the San Jose nightlife locations attract a diverse crowd. Diversity is a strong attribute that many area are looking to achieve, and the eviction of the owners of Taste Ultra Lounge is only hurting that. In addition, the San Jose nightlife is a main attraction/amusement park for local and traveling adults, and with the city looking to take this away, they are taking away city growth. As a regular to San Jose nightlife, I have been to Taste Ultra Lounge on a number of occasions, I have to agree 100% with Isaacc (owner of Taste). The staff had the place well under control and attracted a variety of people, and as a regular weekend spot for a large portion of San Jose, this has only brought down the city of San Jose. The occasional disturbance in a downtown area is bound to happen with/without young nightlife. The vision of a new San Pedro Square & downtown San Jose has plenty of room for nightlife entertainment such as Taste, Sabor, and Vault.
I couldn’t be more disappointed when hear things such as this. i’ve lived in san jose since 89’ and been apart of the downtown nightlife for at least 7 to 8 yrs. i LOVE going downtown to go dance and just overall have fun. to see all these nightclubs/bars be “bullied” out is horrible. For being the 3rd largest city in California, we have the WEAKEST downtown to date. i hear it from out of town friends all the time. all great cities have GREAT NIGHTLIFE! which is a mixture of restaurants/clubs/and bars. why is it that san jose is the only place that doesn’t seem to realize this? what do these politician’s want a, a freaking ghost town after 10pm? cause that’s what it’s turning into. sure you can fill downtown with all kinds of stores/boutique’s(which we don’t have enough of)/restaurants, but what about the people that want to go out after everyone else’s 11pm bedtime? Also talking about it being unsafe to bring children around downtown at night? how late are you going downtown and what are you doing w/ your kids that late downtown anyways? ALL IN ALL, where there’s alcohol there’s dumb people out there to ruin it for everyone else. so no matter what those will always go hand in hand. Taste or even Deep(before it was taste) was the place to be on thursday’s and out of all the years of going there i’ve only witnessed a handful of fights. which where quickly taken care of so that it would have no effect on the other patrons of the club. Taste was very much on the upper scale side of the nightlife and i will always support downtown nightlife! sorry, for this just turning into a RANT. lol, i’m just really tired of running out of places to go downtown and forcing us San Jose-ins to go out of town to party the night away. Well to all those that support this booting of SJ clubs, this is just the first step before this spreads to SJ bars. Also i hope you look forward to seeing San Jose to being one of the only major cities that have little to NO nightlife. Two thumbs up for a future ghost town =)
To everyone who hasn’t read the YELP reviews on Sabor, I invite you to do so, http://www.yelp.com/biz/sabor-tapas-bar-and-lounge-san-jose#hrid:NTzZPG-HcVNs96NQf8q2NQ/query:sabor . You’ll find that the reviews are GREAT and Sabor is a very high class lounge. Mr. Shafazand remodeled the club to work with the city and eliminate the bad crowd. Now that he has invested in Sabor, a clean and classy lounge where people can have a great time without having to worry about anything, the city is trying to shut him down before he even started!!! Mr. Shafazand worked with the city on this issue, now why isn’t the city, Cucuzza, and McEnery returning the favor?!?!?! I’ve seen many underaged people in other clubs in Santana Row like Straits and Rosie McCan, and other areas. But still the city has a magnifying glass on Taste, Cuccini, and now Sabor!! To anyone who hasn’t been to Sabor and is just placing their comments on plain ignorance, go to Sabor and you’ll see that Sabor is a high class place to eat great food and have fun. Read the Yelp reviews and go their for yourslef, you’ll see!!
Honestly I dont no what the big deal is. We live in a city with nearly a million people, this is no longer my grandfathers city. It has grown to one of the biggest and best city’s in the nation, and now we want to eliminate clubs in “DOWNTOWN” San Jose. Taste was definetly one of the best clubs I have EVER BEEN TO, and I’ve bee to clubs in NYC, San Diego, San Francisco, Puerto Rico,etc. And guess what? All the city’s listed Embrace their CLUBS and NIGHTLIFE. I honestly never seen a fight at TASTE. Man if you wanted to look FLY the only place you WHERE able to go to was TASTE. The only BAD thing at TASTE where the WOMEN, woow some BAD LOOKING WOMEN, and for those who are lost I mean BEUATIFUL. Anyway I hope everyone realizes we need clubs and a nightlife in Downtown San Jose because with out either the only direction for the area will be DOWN.
#24-Ray Shafazand,
I am deeply sorry that you were so ill. I hope you are well, and doing better. First, I want to thank you for being so honest. I learned a lot from your posts. It occurred to me that the City needs to design some type of permit or license that addresses the needs of your specific type of business. Different cultures have different needs and I think it was unfair to have you change your venue to survive an unrealistic policy that did not take into consideration the special needs your business had/has.
Secondly, Jack is correct that your management failed to reflect your business in the same decent, lawful manner you strive to. My hope is that you are able to give it another go and be successful this time under new management. (I love belly dancing and in my much younger, thinner days took a few classes myself!)
I also want to thank you for acknowledging that there are troublemakers spilling out onto the streets of San Jose from your clubs. As much as I personally hate it myself, I think that speaks to the need for a heavy Police presence DT.
I must respectfully disagree with you on your perception that you, or nightclubs are being targeted. What are being targeted are the troublemakers your clubs draw to DT. You and Isaac sound like very kind and considerate people. You both want an opportunity to make a living here in San Jose. I hear that and I support that, but I still feel strongly that you must address the real issue here, and like it or not the real issue is around drinking, and violence.(I’m including Music In The Park too!) Until you and other club owners start admitting there is a problem that is shared by all of us as a community, and work with us on resolving the problem, you will have to bare the brunt of your rowdy patrons behaviors, and the anger these patrons are creating in our community. My hope is that this exchange of thoughts and ideas will help lessen the defensiveness I see on both sides of this issue.
And finally, I want to say that accusations of racism are just plain counter productive to coming to a resolution on this issue. Just because a businessperson like Tom wants to be mindful of whom he leases to, does not make him a racist. Like you club owners, he has a God given right to run his properties in a lawful, free manner. I have eaten in San Pedro Square and I have seen a very diverse population of both businesses and employees there. So, in an effort of good will, and fairness lets get to a discussion that revolves around solution and stop making this personal.
This is why I dislike south bay and why I am moving out of this place. Everyone with power is so uptight, they have the strip every last bit of human expression away from those that love and want to live life.
Personally, I love dancing and I love music. I like being around revelers that feel the same way. I also like lite conversation about anything and lounge like environments. I like meeting new interesting people from different walks of life, and even countries of origin, which increases my awareness. It helps me feel connected to life, which is something missing in our fast pace live for work type of culture down here.
Whether McEnery hates or not hate people of color, one thing is clear is that he doesn’t like the nightlife here, thus the people that like it and so he in a way is an enemy of life. And as for the SJPD, I don’t want to dis cops because they put their life on the line, but there seems to be a lot of tolerance for bad conduct in south bay.
As a disinterested third party (I am not a clubber and I do not live, or own property, downtown) I’ve found this thread to be interesting.
On one hand there seems to be agreement that a vibrant night life is necessary for a thriving downtown.
On the other hand there seems to be agreement that the patrons of the current clubs have contributed to a bad atmosphere that is counter-productive to growing downtown.
It seems to me that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. There can be well-run clubs that do not cater to the “knuckleheads” but instead create an atmosphere that’s inviting to a slightly more mature and sophisticated crowd.
I also wonder if the policing currently being done is the most effective. From what little I’ve seen, and I could be wrong, the cops tend to stand around in big clusters and look threatening. There should also be cops, both uniformed and undercover, who WALK the streets to catch any under aged drinkers, people drinking in front of clubs, the urinaters, etc. The goal should be to nip these activities in the bud and send a strong message that “knuckeleads” (of all races) need to look elsewhere for a place to blow off steam. These cops should be friendly, say hello to people, and just serve as a reminder that downtown is safe.
The question is: Do the city, club owners, property owners and police have the collective will to work together to solve these problems, or will they continue to blame each other?
If you’re black or brown, don’t go downtown,’” Hoffower reports, “it’s a catchy phrase, but unfortunately, it resonates.”
…Yeah, coming from a former chiro that I used to work with who used to complain about Hispanic patients coming into his office. ‘What is wrong with these people always coming in for Workers Compensation? They sure are not stable!’
First and foremost, I would like to let everyone know that For the past year and a half i’ve been coming to Taste Ultra Lounge, and let me tell you that it has been one of the best clubs I have ever been to. Everyone who went there was classy, looked good and I never seen a fight there. Trust me and I have been to several clubs in Miami, New York, and Los Angeles and Taste has been by far one of the best ones. It sadden me to find out that Taste was closing. Now my weekends are not the same.
There are a couple of points I need to make here:
· Being young today is not what it used to be. They are like tough 40 year olds at 13. A lot of the fights that take place in the downtown outside your clubs are between young people who, for whatever reason, have no strong parental role models, or whose parents are often not available. Club owners need to take responsibility for what is going on outside their clubs. If young people are fighting, vandalizing property, or causing problems, they need to either break it up or call the police.
· Club owners, as members of this community, need to be responsible for the problems they are helping to create. Many of the patrons that come out of their establishments at closing time are intoxicated. They vomit, urinate on the street/parking garages, and often commit acts of violence. These problems should not be tolerated, and as businesses that help to create this situation, ALL clubs, promoters, and patrons should be at the table to help correct this problem. So, why weren’t the club owners coming to the City early, pointing out the problems, and proposing solutions? Why were they not being proactive about it? Instead of recognizing the issues that are being pointed out and proposing solutions, all I hear from club owners is attacks on the police, and cries of discrimination. A thriving nightlife is a vital part of any downtown. When that thriving nightlife is so bad it disrupts the downtown, results in problems like violence, vandalism, and public urination to the extent that we need the police presence we currently see downtown, it becomes a problem that demands a solution.
Who’s writing “FLY” these days? She/he called Cuccini an Italian restaurant and said it was “across the street” from Taste. Has FLY ever left the Metro building?
Nightlife, seediness, drugs, excessive alcohol, and violence are a part of most downtowns I’ve ever been to…worldwide. Keeping them all to a minimum is the best one can hope for. But it requires admission by owners that they cannot turn a blind eye to what happens in the immediate area outside their doors; and it requires co-operation between owners, good patrons, city officials, and cops to identify and eliminate the troublemakers who spoil it for the majority who are just looking for a good time, and to hook up.
being one those young and black adults that likes to attend the nightlife of downtown. taste would be one of the few spots that i could go and not have to worry whats going to happen tonight to me. because nothing ever happen to me no fights,no jail time and oh yes i have gotten pretty drunk there too. what i dont understand is the residents that are complaining about the noise and blah blah blah. you live downtown!!! you choose to live downtown!! what major city doesnt have nightlife downtown. why would try to take that away!! why dont u move away!! you guys are no different then the people that are fighting downtown because you cant coexist or adapt to where you live at. now with that being said, Young minorities or should i say majorities(according to the Caucasians) we got to stop using the race card on everything. now heres what i think is going down they what the bars on thats side of the downtown closed down. Why beceause san jose continues to grow. San Jose doesn’t really make money off spots that are open on certain nights for a few hours. what would make money is having business move in and live downtown and spend downtown. It seems they want to build more apartments so that could have the business people (you see how i didnt use whites) on that side and they want the clubs move down on the opposite side. yes i know it sucks but you know what its probably going to happen. now what i propose we do is fight for these clubs that we love like taste and sabor cuchinis(even though i not as fond of you as i was of taste sorry that was my spot) or whatever its called now. Cause we all know those are the hotspots and if we cant keep in the building lets propose that they keep there lic if they find another building whinch i know will be hard to do.but we need these clubs like taste and sabor open u know sometimes it just takes away are stress of school, life and whatever we got going on in are young lives for a few hours.to all those older people that are complaining, i know you use to like to have fun as well. you were probably upset when they made el camino a no crusing zone and now you turn around get older and complete the cycle of complaining to stop something that young adults such as myself like to do. just think about.
#40- San Jose Girl,
Residents were there first. The clubs came AFTER! So no one chose to live 100 feet from a nightclub! I think your take on this problem comes from a very myopic point of view. Try widening your lenses and look at it from a bigger point of view and let us know how you think people can work together on this.
#42-MC,
Very well said! You are absolutely correct in your summation of the problem. These conversations are designed to educate one another and to get differing perspectives. Let us start here then, you young club goers and club owners, give us your thoughts on how to deal with the “Knuckleheads,” in DT.
35- Kathleen
I would like to thank you and all other readers being concern about my health
More power to Mr. Tom McEnery and Mr. Cucuzza for their real estate empire. This is the land of opportunity. But let’s look at the way they are going about doing their business.
1. if the city’s budget is in deficit and Mr. Tom McEnery and his family are so well off , #7 in Forbes according to his nephew and Mr.Cucuzza who is often on vacation and is loaded!!! Why are they asking the city to give them $6 Mill to develop San Pedro Sq.
2. if you look at the development site , you could see that the south end of the parking lot and the entire bottom floor of the PUBLIC parking is being given to them. Now let me remind you that the south side of the parking lot was purchased by force (eminent domain) from the landlord by the city of San Jose and now is going to be given to them. This is illegal and calls for investigation.
3. McEnerys and Cucuzza purchased yet an other building (Storm 75-73 N. San Pedro St) from RDA for a sum of $342k in spring of 2004. RDA had purchased it for $438k in 1998. 6 years later and not to mention the maintenance to keep it and taxes and so on. RDA lost $96k+ in this deal wow. Also the same building served as an automotive repair facility for years and yet no E.P.A study was done and there was no clean up of the dirt. This is illegal too. Currently there are over 23 code violations from Health to Building between all the buildings that McEnery and Cucuzza own which in some cases they could get in trouble both financially and legally. I am all about fair business practice which the city of San Jose lacks a lot. For example in October of 2005 I was told by San Jose P.D (VISE) unit to stop late night operation cause my conditional use permit(C.U.P) did not allow me to stay past midnight on Sun,to Weds.a typo error when planning typed it up and I did not catch it..my bad! So I stopped the operation for those days. Santa Row did not even have a C.U.P to operate and provide entertainment and they continued every week and when I asked the P.D why ? I was told that there is a HANDS OFF POLICY FOR SANTA ROW . this is called UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICE .Dear Kathleen it is not about creating an urban diverse living in San Pedro Sq. it is all about $$$, Well here it goes my venue is about 7500sqf. And I pay around $10,500 per month +++property taxes, insurance, unsecured property taxes and it keeps going on and yes we pay the landlord’s property taxes. (I must be fair and say that Mr.Cucuzza has not raised my rent in the last 2 years)That works out to be around $1.40per sqf . now take the same 7500sqf and divide it into 3 parcels or shops with 2500sqf and you could charge even in this economy around $2.99 to $3.25sqf lets just take the average of $3.12 X2500sqfX3shops=$23,400 or they could even chop it in to smaller pieces of 5 sites of 1500sqf and charge higher price. This is commercial real estate 101 maximize your dollar per sqf. L.O.L. So it has nothing to do with clubs. They are strong arming us with their political connection into the city Chuck Reed whom used to dine @ Cuccini and Robert Davis as the chief of police. Mr. Tom McEnery is a politician and understands how the city works. He used to mange it. But all my life I have yet to see a truthful politician that actually does what he promises. I do not think any examples are needed. I revamped Cuccini to Sabor to make a difference in this community. Who would in the right state of mind spend tons of money with only 3 years left on the lease and stay closed for going on 4 month now (thanks to my Landlord). I wanted to make the change and offer the best place for the residents of Axis and Carlyle tower when it was completed. so far as the result of the dispute between my landlord and I, 24 employees have left and I am down to 3. What the heck did I do to be treated like this? The P.D makes up new laws as they go about shutting me down. I think the entire police department has been dispatched along with the city attorneys to find new strategies of how to shut Sabor down. Now you wonder why city has so much wasted labor hours. This administration is out of control. Instead of putting all their energies on me?! They should start cleaning up the downtown from homeless usually around Santa Clara st. have more control for all those music in this and other parks, have more people oriented police force for downtown, support the local businesses. may be we should look into inside dealings in the city hall and RDA starting from the Mayor on. I have often seen Mr. McEnery and Chuck Reed taking a long walk together near San Pedro Sq in the evenings.
4. Chain of events:
October 2007 Ray got sick. December Ray had surgeries after surgeries. February 2008 Ray came back to run his business. April 6th 2008 Ray closed Cuccini for remodeling and rebranding. April 28th 2008 the owners of Taste ultra lounge were evicted. May 10th 2008 Ray hired Isaac and Carlos to help market the new product while they were looking for a new spot. May 1th thru May 9th all licenses, permits and the D.B.A was change and all City, State and Federal agencies were notified of the new changes and fees were paid. Including San Jose P.D . Grand opening was set for June 6th. Police Department serves Ray with a notice of criminal citation intent should Sabor offers entertainment. June 6th Ray calls off grand opening and gets humiliated. Ray decides to open with out entertainment on June 12th, 13th and 14th. Landlord serves Ray on June 18th with a 3 day notice to deliver property to Cucuzza and get out.
YOU BE THE JUDGE!!!
YOU ALL HAVE A VERY SAFE 4TH OF JULY.
Ray Shafazand
Welcome to downtown! I think the problem is the belief of: (as long as it is…)
Not in my own backyard.
I recently graduated from UC Berkeley where rowdy nightlife is given. (Perhaps you are thinking “berkeley” = gangs and the trouble stems from these alcoholic venues, but that isn’t my point.)
My point is that you are not ending the consequence of violence or complaints of drunken behavior by closing these venues.
Psychologically, the behavior (or violence) of an individual is combination of influences from the environment and the individual. Just because you remove the environment, doesn’t mean those with genetic vulnerabilities to violence will stop. The problem will continue as people go to other club venues or bars.
If the real concern were the residents of the city, then perhaps money should be spent into programs for these youth than spend money on rejuvenating San Pedro Square. (It’s a cycle: it takes money to make money to give money away…) You can argue that these people are not youth…but it starts at a young age.
Fine, just not in my backyard. This is will be a problem for someone else to deal with.
Well, first of all I agree that TASTE was one of the best in the city….But policies regarding entrance were pretty stupid. First, If you show up w/out a valid CA ID the stares and questions begin… A very uncomfortable position when everyone around you can figure out your legal status. But there is a possibility of still getting in w/out a valid ID, of course; only if you’re a female w/huge boobs or in group of all girls. Which I include myself in. I know for a fact that many minor have attended not only TASTE, but all clubs in San Jose. Showing valid ID’s of friends or family members who are over 21, and there’s never been a doubt about that. They are let in just like that. I have never seen anyone being questioned or asked for a second form of ID. My Point is that stupid polices such as that have left lots of people out and have never experience TASTE. So theirs no point of having an upscale place if everyone is not going to be allowed in equally.
I’m getting real tired of these club owners saying how they are victims of racism, the city, or the police department. The fact is: they are victims of themselves. If they were responsible; hired responsible management and employees; and possessed a good business model, they would have little to no problems.
The business in which they are involved is extremely regulated. Some of the agencies involved in the regulation are ATF, ABC, and SJPD. Our modern society has decided based upon hundreds of years of experience that those involved in the making, distribution, selling and consumption of alcohol need to be regulated. The burden of the responsibility lies on those who profit from it. If you cannot “man up” and deal with the burdens, then as a business owner you are in the wrong business.
Compared with any other business which operates in this city, the nightclubs and bars, use up much more of the city’s resources (police, fire, medical, street cleaning, etc.) than any of the others. These irresponsible bar owners must realize that in these tough economic times, that the city (I mean the government and the tax paying citizens) are tired of giving them a free ride. It’s time to understand that the law abiding citizenry is tired of wasted tax dollars; on the fights, the public drunkenness, police overtime, and fire & EMS response.
I also keep hearing that these up-and-coming young adults need a place for their socializing and entertainment; which differs from older, more life experienced professional crowd. Well that’s a bunch of crap. Perhaps these young people could find some locations that could broaden their horizons in food, dance, culture, and chasing the opposite sex. The irresponsible bar operators attract as a part of their business model, young adults who want to consume overflowing amounts of alcohol, and fail to follow any basics of human courtesy.
The people of this city want others to enjoy themselves, have a beverage, attempt to obtain the opposite sex’s phone number; as long as it does violate other peoples rights (vandalism, fighting, stabbings, sexual assaults, to name a few). These are all incidents associated with the nightclub industry.
This blog is demonstrating that the irresponsible club owners are scared. They know their days are numbered in San Jose and are grasping at straws. After there is a void in the downtown San Jose nightlife, I have only one concern. It is for the other cities in the Bay Area that will soon have to deal will the same slimy irresponsible bar & nightclub owners.
Kathleen & Jack,
You two seem to be the most involved in the community of everyone on this blog. Its obvious there are 2 very different views and opinions with all of this. The good thing is the objective is the same. We all want a safe , fun and thriving San Jose that people can enjoy. However having online debates will get nothing accomplished. I would love to meet the both of you and talk to you about all of this redevelopment. There has to be a place for clean nightlife to fit in for owners and operators that are repsonsible. Lets meet at Sabor. Im sure you will love the venue and the food. You will also be able to view firsthand the place that has sparked so much debate. Ray should have his opportunity to open and showcase what in my opinion is what San Jose has longed for. I would love to see if you can offer some guidance. I can be emailed at
is***@ta**************.com
. I would love the opportunity to talk with the both of you, I respect your involvment.
yo, i like da words of berzekely boy. he on to somethin’.
back in da military, i done seen da world and i seen and lived more things i’m sure den dis crzy fat cat tammany hall mayor mcenery. i love his american spirit, but i tink he be wantin to white wash dis downtown.
but here’s my point:
i go to nightlife all round da world. capetown, hongkong, tel aviv, paris, iceland, madrid, etc, and da one ting i know is dat dose clubs get more packed den da sj clubs. more men, more drinking, more drugs, more, rowdiness. thoussands in a clubs, and you know wat?
1) yall can go home at 6 am;
2) ain’t no bully iraqi-war soldier wanna-be cops hangin’ around, scairt and intimidated by da clubgoers
3)ain’t many fights at all! in fact, guys be dancing alone and wit guys! girls be dancin wit groups and laughing! peeps be der to have fun, not pose and act like idiots!
4) peeps be allowed to loiter outside in da plazas at night wit friends ,smokin’ and chattin all night. never seen no fights outside.
i tink we gots a culture of violence in da USA and dese clubs be pushin dat sex and violence gangsta thug stuff to make money. talkin bout bitches, gold, rims, and other material stuff dat wake me up while i try to sleep in da parking lot at saint peter’s square. i be like, how you gonna be proud of dat kinda music dat aint pretty to listen to and da lyrics be as dumber dan retarded speak on dose little yellow busses. aint even speakin props english!! and dey be axin for respect?? talkin like dat?
so, san jose skools, parents, and culture be responsible for dis noise. schools aint so good. peeps dont want nothin more dan to graduate and get a job. no college culture here. heck, no one proud of sj state and it should be da main attraction to san jose—da college. instead, we talkin about tech companies dat dont even come to town to lunch and have parties. dey go to frisco!!!!
our culture should shift to college culture, promote sj state, do more events wit da college, and do dem all off campus, subsidized by da city. instead of tinkin money-makin all da time—$6 million fo a stupid marketplace??? who need dat??? we need good schools, independent bookstores, knowledge and educatin’ our young!!
our bright young children should be tinkin college!! not gold and bitches. and dats a culture san jose never had. again, we come from fruit pickin roots. always workin, always workin’ hard for dough. we don’t tink education. heck, martin luther king dont even stay open late for da students!! dey close early!! dat aint no real college library.
so, my point is: we need a big culture shift toward SJ STATE. if yall go to harvard square, yall KNOW dat harvard just round da corner. if yall go to berkely. yall know berzerkely be round da corner. if yall go to uklah, yall know uklah round da corner.
in saint joseph, we focus on da wrong, not on what can be right. focus on educatin yo kids and gettin dem to tink college at minimum, yall have no problems at clubs, bars, in da street, parks, hoods, etc.
i tellin ya, i done seen it in cities worldwide. da culture determines da peace, not a money hungry, hard-up ol fogie who tink da problem is to shut down clubs.
he don’t know cuz he not edumacated in anthropology. itsa fact dat every culture have sacred alternative times for altered states of mind, whether it be booze, peyote, shrooms, etc. it be a part of human culture.
and ain’t no mayor gonna take dat from human culture. he tink he godlike if he tink he can get rid of nightlife.
only ting dat happen is peeeps start drinkin and partyin in da parking lots and at parks and warehouses. den talk about not gettin taxes from bizness!
so, fo all you dense peeps. i say:
1)get da flyers and 5,000 to protest and dance at city hall
2)shut clubs fo a saturday and do a big media press conference
3)get Sj state involved and make it da school all kids must go to.
4)use da power of numbers to influence decisions at city hall, recalling dose dat our infringing on basic rights and gettin dat taliban chief outta der.
time to walk to da fire works.
happy bday america.
wow…i just spent a good amount of time reading all these comments and I really don’t understand
why anyone would live downtown in any city if they can’t handle the atmosphere. I am going to have to agree with some of the previous comments stating that if you want to live in a peaceful residential neighborhood…why did u choose to reside 100 yards aways from a nite club? And also how do u people cope with cinco de mayo festivals, music in the park, tapestry in talent, GRAND PRIX(that shit is loud), and also 4th of July fireworks…should we ban that also to accommodate to ur needs?
As a clubgoer who has attended many venues downtown, I feel that Taste was the safest and most “non-ghetto” out of them all…i’m wondering how they got shut down and places like Toons are still open!! LMAO
Since the club has closed i haven’t had much to do…yeah there is Santana Row but Ray is accurate in his statement that they let many underage people in. Also there isn’t much of an opportunity to do any dancing there (i like to boogy)
I can comfortably state that a lot of troublemakers that some of you have seen near Taste were not even at the club…but are just driving around because they weren’t in dress code to get in and they want an opportunity to holler at the girls as they are leaving the clubs. Isaac and Ray cannot be held responsible for this? Maybe SJPD should put a better radar on cruisers and loiterers…
NIGHTLIFE IS VERY IMPORTANT AND I WOULD HATE TO SEE IT VANISH!!
Isaac,
Thank you for your kind words. I sat on the Mayor’s Public Health and Safety Transition Committee in an effort to try and help resolve the problems in downtown for not only the Police, but also for people like you. I do understand your concerns about the need to run a business without feeling hindered, and the Police Department’s concerns about violence in DT. I want you to know that I fully supported soft closings, the Pay Cop System, having the Police start strictly enforcing curfews on youth, start strictly enforcing ABC violations, and reducing the amount of Police presence in downtown because I firmly believe our Officers need to be more available to citizens in other areas.
Having said that, I want to respectfully disagree with you on your assertion that I don’t know your clientele, that I never saw or heard about any violence regarding your club, or that I feel you are pulling the race card, to justify some of seriously unfounded comments you’ve made to your employees about Mr. McEnery, and in the public posts you’ve made here. I also want to point out that you raise a very valid point; you were not cited for ABC violations when you had your club. But I think you should have been, and some other clubs as well.
Let me explain my position on these issues, I went by your club on several occasions. I saw drunken customers spill out into the streets yelling, urinating in public, fighting with passer bys, and grabbing young women who were minding their own business. I find that you and other club owners have a blatant disregard for the public’s well being.
Many of you club owners are of the mind that if nothing violent happens inside your club, but happens outside your club it isn’t your problem. Or if you haven’t received an ABC violation, or any other kind of violation that you are home free. Well Isaac, that is simply untrue.
Have you ever stood outside your club and watched your patrons drinking out of bottles they brought with them, down it, and then walk into your club and order liquor when they are already plastered? Well I have. Have you ever walked outside behind your patrons when the club is closed and watch their behavior? Well I have. I must say that you and some of the club owners need to spend less time gripping about how unfair everyone is being to you, and spend more time actually “listening,” to what citizens are telling you. Then get “actively,” involved in trying to resolve the problem. Denying it won’t change a thing Isaac. Blaming Tom McEnery and calling him a racist won’t cut it either. Taking personal responsibility is what is needed here, not finger pointing.
If Tom McEnery has legally wronged you then use the judicial system to receive justice, but please for your own sake, don’t come on a public blog and make unsubstantiated statements that could get you sued for Liable or Slander. Take the videotapes you claim you have, the letters filled with “discriminatory remarks,” and any other documentation you have and allow a jury of your peers, or a Judge to decide what kind of justice you are entitled to. If McEnery wronged you, he deserves to be punished for that and he should have to repay you for your losses.
#46- Kathleen, and Jack-
You are both wrong about the residents preceding the nightclubs.
Where Jack lives – from what I can surmise from his postings and from the fact that it is the ONLY housing in SPS- (and feel free to edit this out) is an apartment house above some restaurants in SPS. This housing used to be a flophouse in the 80’s and 90’s and was cleaned up relatively recently. It has never been bona fide residential- historically it has housed transient workers, and possibly some hotel use, but this has never been a residential neighborhood- the downtown core has been commercial/retail/entertainment in usage for the past 100 or so years.
In fact, SPS is in the downtown entertainment zone, which means that it is a SPECIFICALLY designated area for nightlife. These clubs aren’t moving into the Hensley neighborhood and opening up, blasting noise at the long-term residents of the Victorians there, many of which have been handed down generation to generation. They are legally opening up in one of the few areas that they are allowed to.
Now, why would Mr. Van Zandt move to one of the ONLY designated nightclub zones in the entire city, and then complain about the nightclubs? Kathleen, didn’t you post recently that if someone moves next to the airport, they have no right to complain about noise?
There have been clubs in that area since the 80’s – DB Coopers, Laundryworks, Club St. John, Shark and Rose, Phoenix Coffee House…waaaaay before Jack and the influx of residents who are CHOOSING TO MOVE TO AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT were even a twinkle in any developers eye.
These new residents aren’t coming down here because they heard downtown is the new great place to get some shut-eye before 11 pm, they’re coming down for walkable amenities like coffee shops, restaurants, and yes- bars and clubs.
I think that using the fights and drunk people and loud music as an excuse for closing TASTE and trying to close SABOR is a bunch of crap. Motif had stabbings and big fights shortly after they opened (which i have never seen anyone at TASTE get stabbed), AGENDA also had problems and dont even get me started with TOONS! I think people would respect Tom McEnery if he just told the truth….that he doesnt want a certain type of crowd in downtown and work together with club owners to try to find a solution rather than saying he wants to “redevelop” downtown. Its also very sad that “money talks” and i think that anyone who is in association with Tom McEnery and agrees with his reasons including SJPD are just weak minded and easily influenced.
50. da mayor makes some valid points.
MLK is open fairly late when SJSU is in session, but not during the summer when there are not many students around.
I’ve heard from people who were around here in the Sixties that SJSU had more of a cultural influence in the area than it does now. It would be nice if it created a university district of independent bookstores and coffeehouses where people play chess and so on.
But even Berkeley is not doing so well in that regard—Cody’s just went out of business.
SJSU is basically a commuter school. That can be taken as a compliment. If students are willing to commute from Walnut Creek or Hayward, then clearly it is filling a need.
The high cost of housing in SJ also means that many students find it more cost-effective to live with their parents and commute.
However, it’s a historical pattern. In Clyde Arbuckle’s history of SJ, he describes how, in the days when the Southern Pacific tracks ran down the middle of 4th Street, there was a train stop (I believe about where Togo’s is now) for the convenience of students commuting down from the East Bay.
SJ DT in general is short of interesting things going on. There are interesting things happening at SJSU that are not well marketed to the public—speakers, cultural events and so on. I suspect that cultural inbreeding at the university and inertia at media outlets like the Merc and Metro are equally to blame. Events like the Blues Festival and 01SJ show what can be done.
I think it is unlikely, though, that SJSU could develop a university district like Berkeley. Berkeley as one of the foremost universities in the world can write its own rules. But in general, university districts are based on low rents. In Eugene, Oregon, or Bloomington, Illinois, this can happen, but in SJ the economics rule it out.
I would have liked to see the old Del Monte plant turned into an arts center, but instead we are getting more high density housing. OK, people need somewhere to live, but I think there should be more to life than sitting in a beige cube watching cable TV.
I have no interest in going to places like Cuccini, but I accept the concept that other people might like to do so. If downtown is to be reserved for people who can afford to spend $150 per person for a nice quiet dinner, fine, but maybe another area could be zoned for young people who want to listen to deafening music and pursue modern mating rituals.
I think there are still some areas that would welcome increased economic activity, even it came with additional urination and vomiting on the streets. This can be cleaned up. And concentrating policing into a smaller area would make it easier to control fights and other crimes.
It’s the solution of 100 years ago, but I don’t see anything better having come up since.
This is in support of the statement made by #53 downtowner 123 see for yourself
Municipal Code
6.60.400 Downtown entertainment zone defined.
For purposes of this chapter, the downtown entertainment zone shall be defined as the area bounded by Route 87, Julian Street, Fourth Street and Interstate 280.
(Ords. 25363, 25643, 25644.)
Ray
#47- Ray,
I agree that there does seem to be a hands off policy about the practices at Santana Row. I know they have had a lot of their own problems with fights, drunks, etc., but because they bring in so much revenue, and because their clubs are not right next to housing, they are getting a way with a lot. To ensure the safety and well being of their businesses and their customers, they employ their own onsite security guards, as does the Pruneyard in Campbell. The owners and managers of Santana Row are very wealthy, they are well educated, and are masters at keeping the public image they want to reflect, if you catch my drift. Is it fair? No! But life isn’t fair, never has been, never will be.
As to the rest of your post all I can say is that you need to retain a lawyer and fight for what you think is right, or move your business to a friendlier part of SJ, or a different city, or work with the city of SJ to find a way to coexist. Expecting homeowners to pack up and leave, or Tom McEnery to see things your way is a big waste of your time and energy. As my Mom always said to me,” Living well is the best revenge.” Move your club elsewhere, be successful, and let another city enjoy the revenue you bring in. Your loyal customers will follow.
#53- Isaac,
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this. When I moved to San Jose in 1973, downtown as I remember it, was nothing like it is now. I did not see nightclubs everywhere, heavy Police presence, etc. I saw small businesses, lots of beautiful old houses, small eateries, Woolworths, family owned drugstores, and the like. Over the years, I saw DT become a haven for pimps, prostitutes, drugs, and crime.
I lived on North 4th Street for about 4 years and decided to move out of DT, when the area started to really get bad. I watched as the City grappled with the problems and slowly began to clean up DT. I didn’t and still haven’t moved back down there because I think it is too dangerous to live there. (And yes, I think people who live near a noisy airport, or business is dumb! Why do you think I moved out of DT? )
I watched the Pavilion Shops being built and I watched them go down the drain. I watched one nightclub after another start up and fail. I’ve seen Labor make it difficult for businesses to come to SJ, and I’ve seen the Chamber work to bring us Christmas In The Park. I’ve seen many hotels go up, many events start up, and so on.
I guess what I’m saying here Isaac is that everything has its season. Change is inevitable. Our leaders, our citizens, the need for housing, jobs, and revenue have turned DT into a different kind place, and it seems your nightclubs don’t meet the needs of the new vision for DT. Have you thought of relocating to a different part of San Jose or to a different city like Campbell, Los Gatos, or to Santana Row?
#19 Wonder Woman,
Being a San Jose Native myself,I must agree with your views on San Pedro Square and support Tom McHenry`s plans for San Pedro Square.The City RDA should move forward and fund their portion of the changes McHenery and partners plan for San Pedro Square.
San Pedro Square is made up of mostly Foodservice retail operators that are locally owned.The City of San Jose is in desperate need of more sales tax revenue and revenue from new jobs. This project will generate more sales tax revenue for San Jose and an incremental property tax monies for it`s general fund.RDA will recieve the additional property taxes as a result of increased property taxes the new development will generate.
This project will make the downtown more attractive for new residents considering a move to downtown.
This was my position at the June City Council meeting when I spoke on the record.
But…I also requested that the RDA officials, Mayor and City Council present at this meeting not spend “all” of the RDA funds in downtown San Jose.Their are other RDA areas that also need RDA funding and are being neglected.The east side of Willow Glen and North Willow Glen are in need of serious road, curb and sidewalk replacements. Streets like Minnesotta(Alma) from Tamien Station,Willow Street east of Lincoln Ave and Virginia Street are in terrible condition. Sidewalks and curbs on Willow Street from the 500 block to the 1100 block have almost sank to street level, curbs only i inch high, streets cracked and very uneven. The side walks in San Pedro Square are in “excellent condition”.
Thisd said, I still hope the City RDA moves forward and funds Tom`s plan because it is good for all of us.The new sales tax revenue this project will generate is badly needed in our City`s General Fund.
Kathleen,
You said:
“I know they have had a lot of their own problems with fights, drunks, etc., but because they bring in so much revenue, and because their clubs are not right next to housing, they are getting a way with a lot”
Are you just an idiot? The clubs in Santana Row are ALL below apartments and or condos. What are you smoking?
Also, Santana Row has huge problems with minors and fights. If any place downtown tried to serve as many minors as Straights or Sino; they be closed down within a month.
The police are chasing small businesses out of downtown so people like Swenson and McHenry can line there pockets. you need to get over it.
Kathleen #55
Those businesses located in the Pavilion Center behind the Fairmont and others failed largely because of a lack of a good downtown residential population.Even the Downtown SJ daytime population wasn`t sufficent for those early businesses to survive.Downtown was dead at nite.With the new increased rents downtown restaurants couldn`t hang on because they needed “lunch-dinner and weekend business to survive.Most of the first apartments and Condo`s downtown were Corporate owned apartments and were empty and not in use most of the time.
Few of the new early business pioneers downtown were able to hang on while the city tried to get it`s act together, others spent a lot of money on their businesses, did everything right and still failed.Downtown needed people living and supporting it to be successful.
The turn around began when Tom became Mayor.
Kathleen #55
One of the problems is you people making a comparison of San Jose in the 70s to now. Thats and unrealistic comparison. I lived on 17th and St James in 1971 and my grandmother still owns that home and my family still lives in that huge victorian home. When I was a kid then I could walk to Lou’s donuts and be safe in the 70s. I would go to the local consignment boutiques across from Lou’s donuts and buy gifts for pennies out of my piggy bank. I would play at Roosevelt park and it was safe. In those days my family had a milk man delivering milk to the house. San Jose as a city is not the same now. Its 35 years later and we are one of the biggest cities in the USA. If your dreaming of a DT like the 70s its never gonna happen. I was born and raised DT my mother went to San Jose High School I am a 3rd generation DT resident. I have seen the evolution of DT. I saw the same things you did and I also lived and experienced those same things as a kid and now as an adult. As far as moving to another city, YES! There is a Taste Ultra Lounge that I opened in Scottsdale, AZ that my mother now owns. I am opening up a new one in Stockton, CA slated to open in September. I will also be relocating Taste of San Jose (outside of San Jose) soon. I am only working as a consultant for Ray and Sabor and now Ray is having problems. Thats what this is all about. Sabor is not a Taste nor is it even close to the size of Taste. Ray shouldnt be having to go through this stuff. He is operating a clean business and the city has no reason to be holding him up. We all know its McEnery pulling his political weight. In your heart you know it too! The fact that he is supported for doing this is disgusting. To use his influence to negatively impact a small business owner who is honest and respected should be criminal. Its sad to see that McEnery and his supporters are not even willing to work together with Ray. In the end it will back fire on everyone but McEnery. If McEnery really believed in his San Pedro Square idea why doesnt he take an equity loan out on the properties and finance his own developement. We all know he buys the properties way below the appraised value there is plenty of equity to pull from. Let the city use the $6 million to fix up Peter Burnett school where all the new families that move to these so called luxury condos have to send there kids. Have you driven by your downtown schools lately? They sure arent like the schools when you moved here in 1973.
#58 Richard: There were other problems with the Pavilion shops that went beyond the lack of downtown residents. The original concept was for the pavilion Shops to anchor a “retail destination” downtown. (Sounds sort of laughable now.) However they put in a lot of high-end stores selling crap nobody really wants to buy and a few formula restaurants that weren’t very good. Guess what? Nobody showed up.
#55 Kathleen; Next time you visit Santana Row look up. Those are Condos above the businesses. SR has both entertainment and housing. That said, who in their right mind would want to live in a place that’s a shopping mall in the daytime and Party Central at night? You and I must have arrived in SJ around the same time. When I arrived in the early 70’s downtown was a slum. Then-Governor Regan had closed state mental hospitals and downtown became a dumping ground of halfway houses for the mentally ill. Then came the era of Light Rail reconstruction which seemed to go on forever. Downtown is still trying to recover from those two double-whammys.
#52 Alfred: I like your vision for a university district and share your concern that high rents make it impossible. Too bad, such an area would add substance to downtown. While I favor the RDA subsidy for San Pedro Square, it would be nice if some of those RDA dollars could be spent to create affordable student housing and school-friendly shops along 4th street that compliment our downtown university. These days 4th street seems more like a line of demarcation separating the university from downtown. Bad planning.
I hope everyone had a good 4th!
well I fully support #53 statement. That is exactly the point i was trying to get across to Kathleen but she seems to be too narrow minded to realize that it’s not 1973 anymore…and nitelife has evolved. There are many bars and night clubs that I am all for shutting down…i.e. motif, toons,voodoo….but Taste Ultra Lounge was run very respectfully and I was sad to see it go. However that place is history… so the main issue is Sabor. I visited Sabor to have dinner and drinks and I feel it should be given a chance…Instead of looking at the actual venue and atmosphere everyone is judging on the people behind it and their previous clubs…Sabor is nothing like cuccinis or Taste(i was a big fan of Taste so that’s a downside)…they should be given the opportunity to run a business just like everyone else
#53 is correct.
LONG before the McEnery Residential Tower opened above AP Stump’s, there were restaurants and clubs in San Pedro Square. When I came to SJ in 1973, The Laundry Works occupied the space where Taste is (was?). It had been there a long time, I was told. AP Stumps was The Tower Saloon, where, as I recall, Tom McE did a stint as a bartender. After Tower, it was DB Coopers, where one could find oodles of underage girls boozing & coking it up Thursday-Sunday, until the ABC shut it down. Spiedo was Sizzler. The Old Spaghetti Factory has been serving lousy food cheap (they should be sued for calling the crap they put out Italian food)since at least the ‘70s. Manny’s Cellar gave way to The Fallon House, at a cost of over $5 MILLION so Tom’s favorite hero’s house could get some cred. Cuccini was Alexander’s, I believe, before it changed hands and we saw the postcards of half naked chicks luring in the guys for events that ranged between sleazy and raunchy. Blakes (Picasso’s for a while) was Yank’s (commonly called Skank’s) for many years.
Most of this was long before the McE’s converted the empty space above what is now AP Stumps into residential. The clubs were certainly there before Jack Van Z moved in.
#56- Richard,
RDA funds are badly needed in places other than Willow Glen. Try taking a ride through some neighborhoods outside yours. RDA money should be “fairly” distributed through out the City, so property values increase everywhere, not just in Willow Glen.
Kathleen #55 claims that the clubs in Santana Row are getting away with problems because they are “not right next to housing”??!! Uh, Kathleen, they are right BELOW housing. Have you ever actually been to SR? If so, did you look UP? What did you see above the retail and clubs and restaurants?
Isaac #59—an ULTRA lounge in Stockton—Gang Central for the north San Joaquin Valley, and with the largest residential foreclosure rate in California? You must be loaded with cash to burn.
#57-Sam Malone,
Personal attacks and name calling aren’t called for. If you go back and read my post you will see that you and I are saying exactly the same thing!
#59- Isaac,
I feel it is inappropriate for you and Ray to use SJI as a venue to air your legal, and personal grievances with Tom McEnery, and then get angry when no one wants to take your side on this stuff. None of us know first hand what Tom McEnery did or didn’t do with regards to your business ventures. Since Tom McEnery hasn’t chosen to participate in this discussion, we won’t ever know will we? So please understand that my refusal to pass judgment on the situation does not in any way mean I agree with or disagree with McEnery’s behavior toward you or anyone else. I don’t even know the guy. I’ve met him in passing three times in 30 years!
I think you and San Jose Gurl are so myopic in your point of view that you are not getting what I’m saying. I have never once said that we should go back in time to the way it was in the 70s, and I’ve made it pretty clear to both you and Ray that if you think you have been discriminated against you have legal recourse.
What I said was times change, and so do the needs of our city, and its taxpayers. Pretty simple explaination for your clubs are not fitting into the vision the city, and its citizens has for downtown.
I also think you are being hypocritical. You say you and others want to run your business the way you want to without being hindered, but on the other hand you say that McEnery should be held to a higher standard or a different way of operating his business than you are. That to me is unfair. He’d be an idiot to buy property for more than its worth, he’d be an idiot not to charge rents that further his wealth, that is what YOU ARE DOING! You charge a cover, you hire people to serve and do dishes in your club, and I doubt that you are providing them with health care; cost of living increases, or paid sick leave and vacation. People work in your club for tips, not for what you’re paying them.
You charge a lot of money for watered down drinks; you make a lot of money off these drunken troublemakers, and as several posters disclosed you and other nightclub owners only allow “certain patrons,” into your clubs. Isn’t that discrimination? Big Ta Tas, a certain type of clothing, or how attractive someone is or is not? And you can deny it if you wish, but I am certain that your bouncers are allowing under aged, well endowed patrons, or someone slipping them a little bit of somethin somethin into your clubs. In short Isaac, throwing stones from a glass house is unwise, and it certainly hurts your credibility.
I’ve been to Taste before and it was a great experience! I have nothing bad to say about it. Therefore, Sabor should not be any different due to the fact that the same people who opened Sabor are the ones that opened Taste. The security guys were on top of things as well as being courteous with disabled guests, etc… I do not understand why they should not be able to stay open. They are popular and they do get people to come out to have fun and have a good time and to enjoy themselves. I have only seen Taste to have long lines only because everyone wants to be there and be a part of the experience. So, tell me why not let a facility like Sabor remain open, if they are filled with almost the same type of people who wants to have fun. This facility is full of a wide range of diverse people!
#37 -Elm:
“now heres what i think is going down they what the bars on thats side of the downtown closed down.”
You are not getting it. It’s about the violence, public urination, breaking bottles, fights and unruly behavior. The City needs the revenue from those clubs, so you could not be further from the truth. The problem with these clubs is that patrons from them engage in the unlawful behaviors I listed above. Many people go to Sharks games at the Pavilion, drink, have a good time, and don’t engage in unlawful behaviors. If you want to make a difference, find a way to prevent the unlawful behaviors the police are there to prevent.
#38 – none:
“But there is a possibility of still getting in w/out a valid ID, of course; only if you’re a female w/huge boobs or in group of all girls. Which I include myself in. I know for a fact that many minor have attended not only TASTE, but all clubs in San Jose. Showing valid ID’s of friends or family members who are over 21, and there’s never been a doubt about that. They are let in just like that. I have never seen anyone being questioned or asked for a second form of ID. “
Thank you for saying what everyone knows is true, but could not verify – these clubs DO let in underage patrons to drink. So, why do these clubs blatantly ignore the law, and let in underage patrons? TO MAKE MONEY?
There is an incredible double standard going on here. Issac and Ray are angry at McEnery, and want to hold him to a higher standard, but are not holding to those practices themselves. So they, and other clubs downtown let in underage patrons to drink? Do they do anything to try to address the violence, public urination, property destruction, or other unlawful acts their business causes? NO, they do not – they are too busy pointing their fingers at McEnery, the City of San Jose, and the San Jose Police Officers. If they were really concerned about our City, they would have worked with the City, and the police to address these unlawful behaviors long before they became an issue.
#39 – SJ Downtowner 70:
“The burden of the responsibility lies on those who profit from it. If you cannot “man up” and deal with the burdens, then as a business owner you are in the wrong business. “
I cannot agree more, and I think that applies to both sides here – the Club Owners, McEnery, and the patrons of these clubs.
“The irresponsible bar operators attract as a part of their business model, young adults who want to consume overflowing amounts of alcohol, and fail to follow any basics of human courtesy.”
And then do nothing at all to try to stop or address these behaviors.
#40 – San Jose Gurl:
“I can comfortably state that a lot of troublemakers that some of you have seen near Taste were not even at the club”
You are wrong about that. When did you stand at the door-watching bouncers card patrons, follow them out to their cars and see them leave? Also, NONE above admits that Taste allowed underage patrons in to drink.
#41 – Joaquin Menchaca:
“Everyone with power is so uptight, they have the strip every last bit of human expression away from those that love and want to live life.”
Joaquin, part of all of this has to include responsibility. The City of San Jose has a responsibility to keep the public safe. Safe from the unlawful behaviors talked about in this blog and in the Mercury News. McEnery, as a landowner, has the responsibility to ensure tenants on his property are following the laws of the City, and running a responsible business. If these club owners were addressing the problems their clubs were, in part, causing, then this might not be a problem. But they are not.
#57 – Sam Malone,
“Also, Santana Row has huge problems with minors and fights. If any place downtown tried to serve as many minors as Straights or Sino; they be closed down within a month.”
Santana Row attracts higher quality restaurants and businesses than downtown San Jose ever could in its present state. So homeowners and lessors there are of a higher financial status. Also, Santana Row employs their own security guards so they are not draining the City’s public coffers by requiring police presence every night when their clubs close. When I read Kathleen’s post, I thought she was saying the same thing you were – you might want to go back and read it again before you attack her. No one here is condoning allowing underage patrons in clubs, in downtown, Santana Row, or any part of the City. The difference is, neither Issac nor Ray is admitting that they allow underage patrons in too. They are trying to come off as if they have run these perfectly lawful businesses, and that is just not true.
Kathleen-
#55 “Is it fair? No! But life isn’t fair, never has been, never will be.”
So… practice what you preach and get over it then. And learn to live with the wonderful noises and sounds of what makes downtown San Jose… a regular ‘ol thriving downtown.. a place where people flock to enjoy great food, good music, upscale clubs like TASTE and Sabor/Cuccini’s, comedy clubs, bars, parades, fireworks, art and any other forms of entertainment. Downtown is the place for this noise… you keep saying to “move to another area of San Jose”… so where then? Some other residential area?? Because, honestly I can’t imagine anywhere else a night club would belong… most other places in San Jose are where the TRUE residential areas are…. What are you thinking??
My parents and grandparents have been flocking to downtown for the nightlife since the early 60’s. So get off it when you say the residents where there first. And besides if you’ve lived there for THAT long… maybe it’s time you head off to a nice QUIET retirement community. There’s a nice one, oh say right near Santana Row…. I’ve saved you the trouble.. here’s the link: http://www.belmontvillage.com/
Everyone should get off ragging on TASTE/SABOR/Cuccini’s… they are the FEW places in DT San Jose where you can actually enjoy some upscale entertainment. If you think TASTE is bad… head over to Toons or Voodoo…. then come back and post.
Have a lovely day!!
JMO, and MC,
I know there are condos above business in Santana Row. And my question is much like MC’s, “Who in their right mind would want to live in a place that’s a shopping mall in the daytime and Party Central at night?” I sure wouldn’t!
Secondly, as Christian and I have pointed out, Santana Row does employ Security Guards there; our DT nightclub owners do not that I know of. Owners of Gonzo’s dream city, Santana Row, do make every effort to keep their problems under wraps, and out of the public eye. But they are far from what they portray.
JMO- If you are going to quote me be sure you don’t change the context of what I said. I said that Santana Row does seem to have a hands off policy, and is getting a way with a lot, period. I know builders included housing in their version of their Rodeo Drive like plan, but I haven’t seen a single nightclub next to the original housing that pre-existed Santana Row. They may have added some since I was there last year, but before that I did not see one. The construction of Santana Row vastly differs from DT. Santana Row is more like a self-contained snub hub.
As MC pointed out, when I moved here in the 70s DT was a nightmare! I did not see the types of condos for sale built down there then. They came over time. I just know that DT has undergone many changes over the past 35 years, some good, some bad. Simply put, the City is changing to meet the needs of its politicians, and its taxpayers.
69 – Santana Row was well into the planning stages before Gonzo got into office. While I am no fan of his, it’s hardly accurate to call it his “dream city”.
To many others on this blog—why do you associate not wanting drunks, violence and general poor behavior with not wanting any nightlife downtown. Your concept of nightlife is where the problem is. For the most part, I don’t think most folks want an empty, lifeless downtown. Most do want a place where all ages can go, safely, with or without their family and have an enjoyable evening. Drunken violence, public urinating, fights, etc. is hardly type of nightlife most people want.
There is no reason that responsible clubs can’t co-exist with everything else that goes into what makes a downtown. I emphasize responsible clubs—that’s where many of you seem to miss the point. There is simply no place in a civilized society for the type of irresponsible behavior that has been taking place downtown. Everyone needs to take responsibility for this, starting with the club owners and operators. Until this happens, this somewhat mindless dialogue will continue with no resolution in sight.
Get it together and make downtown what it could and should be!
#68- TrishaC in 3rd Gen San Jose Native,
So, what is your answer to ending the violence, etc., in downtown that results from the Nightclubs letting out? I hear a lot of defensiveness from you about the lifestyle you enjoy, but I hear ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from you to address the problems that have been clearly documented, and remain largely unresolved. If you had just suggested some solutions, you could have avoided a lot of drama, and been proactive about protecting the lifestyle you enjoy. The one problem with downtown that this blog, the Mercury News, and many, many people have brought out is the violence, public urination, etc. that results when the nightclubs let out. I have not heard you, or any other poster who supports the nightclubs on this blog offer any solutions. Do you support these activities? If not, what do you propose be done to stop them?
You say:
“My parents and grandparents have been flocking to downtown for the nightlife since the early 60’s.”
I take it you, your parents, nor your family live downtown. Is that correct? Assuming that is true, are you saying that the residents there should just live with this violence, public property destruction, and unlawful behavior? We are not talking about the Fireworks, festivals, or even Sharks games. They all have an EXCELLENT record compared to the Nightclubs when they let out. So, AGAIN, what answers do you have to end the unlawful behavior of nightclub patrons (that includes the underage ones, as stated by poster #38)? If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
SJ nightlife IS what it IS because of the clubs and the younger croud. Shut down the clubs, and I doubt the ‘older croud’ will be out generating revenue for the clubs, restaurants, parking, and so on. That line about being brown and not going downtown is totally bogus… Im WHITE and go there ALL THE TIME with my white, black and hispanic friends. The color of our skin doesn’t matter, what matters is that we handle ourselves in a mature manner while spending our hard earned money in San Jose when we go out to enjoy ourselves.
JACK… Like I stated in my first post… I am a young, WHITE female and frequently went to Taste and Cuccinis. Of all the times I was there, not once did I witness a fight or disruption, just a croud of people mingling and having a nice evening. As a white person, I’d much rather be at one of those cluns than O’Flaritys…so you can keep that club to yourself and I will stay at the fun spots with the Latinos you claim the clubs to cater to…In my experience, they are much less judgemental than you are.
#73 – TrishaC:
First, I attended the Mayor’s Transition Committee on Public Safety and Health, providing my ideas on the issue. So I have gotten involved on the topic, and added my ‘two cents’ to the issue, where they could be of the most benefit. Second, I suggested on SJI on several different blogs that the City should go back to a Pay-cop system. It was the Independent Police Auditor, Barbara Attard that got that system shot down.
“Fact is… McEnery doesn’t want “our people” in the building. Yes..our people, I’m a Latina and proud of it. Say what you want about my bringing this up… say “race card”, say it’s not true, blah blah…if you honestly believe that this still can’t happen and is not happening in this day and age then pull the wool back over your eyes..”
I have a couple of thoughts… So how about the Hispanic, Indian, Pakistani, African-American, and many other cultures that go to San Pedro Square EVERY DAY to have lunch? Does McEnery not want them there too? I doubt it. I have attended forums by the County’s Hate Free Network, and assisted the Network in it’s fight against discrimination, so I too, understand that bigotry does exist. Is this the reason? No. Taste may have been a lot better than the rest, but they still have/had their share of problems, like underage drinking, as identified by a poster above. If McEnery as a landlord does not want the problems that come with this business, he does not have to rent to this business.
Is this your view? It doesn’t impact me, so why should I care? How about the businesses downtown that are damaged as a result of the violence caused by these club-goers? Should they just tolerate it? Should the police, who’s job it is to keep the public safe, just tolerate it? How about the City, who would be the first to be sued if someone got seriously hurt and did nothing, should they just tolerate it?
I want to make sure I understand your viewpoint, and don’t want to get it wrong. What I read from your comments is this: “I like being able to attend the clubs downtown. I don’t care about the problems, and in fact, believe downtown residents, the City, and the police should take this as normal for a big city.” Is that correct?
#74 – Richard Zappelli –
Do Bentley’s regularly come downtown, or are they put on display downtown for sale like they are at Santana Row? No. Why? It is because people there can afford them. I cannot. Along with a lot of what is sold there. That is, by the way, part of the reason I don’t go to Santana Row. By the way, Richard, I am not saying they are better than you and I, just in a higher tax bracket.
#78 – Melissa –
If everyone conducted themselves in the mature manner you and your friend do, while spending their money downtown, I doubt very much we would even be talking about this. But as the saying goes, the bad apples spoil the bunch.
I am just asking for the club owners, and patrons to suggest some solutions to the problems that are being brought up. If they all got together, and solved the problems that are occurring, maybe the City would not have to be involved, and this would not be an issue.
Christian
Shut down the clubs, and I doubt the ‘older croud’ will be out generating revenue for the clubs, restaurants, parking, and so on.
One of the few correct items stated on this thread.
To Ms. Kathleen regarding #66,
In your rant to Isaac…
“Pretty simple explaination for your clubs are not fitting into the vision the city, and its citizens has for downtown.”
-Dont you mean McEnery’s vision????
Every downtown in every major city in the US and the world have night clubs in their DT… how can McEnery and his bully’s beg to differ??
you also state:
“You charge a lot of money for watered down drinks”
– So… if the drinks are so watered down… then the patrons coming out of THIS club CLEARLY can’t be as intoxicated by urinating and vomiting every which way on every building and public parking lot and all over all the streets as you and others on your high horses claim… right?
To be honest… how do you know that all that vomit and urine isnt coming from the big homeless problem we have???? And let’s be real here.. the aftermath truly isn’t THAT bad…. it’s not like DTSJ is or has ever been the best looking DT anyway….
You also said:
“as several posters disclosed you and other nightclub owners only allow “certain patrons,” into your clubs. Isn’t that discrimination? Big Ta Tas, a certain type of clothing, or how attractive someone is or is not?”
– It’s not anymore discriminatory than a ‘members only’ cigar club that I’m sure Mr. McEnery belongs to, or that nice little private country club. The kind of clubs where McEnerey and his croonies go to, to laugh at all us little people. Places where they go to relax as their money lined pockets are filled by taxpayers money. MY money. So please Kathleen, dismount from your high horse when you say that Isaac’s club is discriminatory. If I may say so myself, I’ve been to his club, and I’m a PLUS SIZED Patron, I’ll admit, I’m not the best looking, but never once did I ever feel looked down upon by the staff or even other patrons. This truly is a NICE club, one that WOULD fit into the newly proposed city plans. It’s plush, upscale, clean, great tasting drinks, great food and exemplary service from the staff. The owners are ALWAYS dressed to the ‘T’ in their nice suits and ties. The security staff is always in full force (not that it’s ever needed) but it’s there.
I certainly don’t hear of any complaints regarding the ARENA…whose Ultimate Fighting Shows or other concerts and even hockey games let out some unruly, intoxicated patrons…Oh wait!…of course not… that’s the bread and butter for Mr. McEnery.
Before passing judgement, why not GO and SEE for yourself…I bet you’d actually enjoy the food and drinks. From what I read.. Ray has already offered his services ON HIM…
#28 you stated: “Walking into a typical night at Tast, you can look around and see many young men and women dressed to impress,…”
#44 says: “Everyone who went there was classy, looked good …”
Are you guys kidding me!!? I walked in there once, (dressed classy) and I was astonished at what the girls were wearing. They were half naked.
I thought I had walked into a pimp & hoes convention.
Don’t get me wrong…I like to go out dance and have agood time and I DO think that DT needs these types of venues but the owners really need to change the dress codes. It’s ridiculous….YOU CALL THAT CLASSY?
We left as soon as we saw something gross happening on the dancefloor with a sleazy guy and a girl that had a shirt on for a dress.
I was drug there again months later by a group of friends and it wasn’t impresive. The same crowd, nothing gross happening this time around but it was a trashy crowd…definetly NOT classy
# 64, yes the clubs began with The Tower in 1971, later the popular D.B. Coopers. However, the type of downtown that I refer to was prior to your coming to San Jose. At the time, the 70’s, it seemed that clubs were something that would get some bodies downtown. Other than Mannny’s Cellar, which was operating prior to the 70’s, the only other really successful downtown restaurant that I can think of was and still is Original Joe’s.
Unfortunately, I have to agree that the downtown I remember will probably never return. We have evolved from that and now are evolving through what got us to this point. Now, we are upon a population return to inhabit downtown. Many businesses have had a difficult time holding on, another I can think of is Zanotto’s.
The bottom line is that downtown needs to be cleaned up. Unfortunately many nightclubs are not part of the evolving destiny. That’s not to say that some clubs can’t coexist. When I think of downtown Campbell, small as it may be, it seems to be successful with a reasonable mix of restaurants and bars.
If I reluctantly patronize Santana Row, it’s on a Sunday afternoon. I suspect after an early dinner, there can be more reveling than I care to be part of. A few weeks ago, I ate at Sino’s; to get to the dining room, you have to pass where the money is being made, the bar. When the Santana Row restaurants first opened, this did not seem to be the case. So,let the younger drinking crowd discover that spot, in the meantime, let’s work on cleaning up our immediate downtown area. The premise that a city needs a viable downtown has not changed. I’ve always felt that was the main premise to plunge RDA $ there.
For those of you not here or born prior to the early 1980’s, you can’t imagine what it was two decades before, the ghosts were getting ready to settle in.
As the editor of San Jose Inside I would like to thank everyone who has joined this discussion in the past week. It has been one of the most vigorous and illuminating public forums that we have had in several months. I would really like to thank Isaac and Ray for their participation, especially given the fact that this site was founded by Tom McEnery as a public service and, until recently, completely financed by him. It was because of Tom McEnery that you all had the opportunity to come on this site and voice your opinion, and I hope that you appreciate it.
I would also like to point out that, as San Jose Inside’s editor, nothing is posted on the site without my approval. Although I have engaged in the discussions here as a citizen blogger and my opinion is quite clear on the matter, I want to assure everyone that we have posted absolutely every comment we have received, no matter how critical of my view or Mr. McEnery as a landlord, in the interest of facilitating a real community debate on this issue. We have allowed comments that were in violation of our comment policy, and we have allowed Ray and Isaac to present a legal argument for their positions, even though this is not the place for it. However, I think that any objective reader will now have a clear picture of the various facets of the issue.
As a citizen blogger myself, I gave my opinion on the matter and then sat back and read everything you have all had to say, hoping that I would hear some things that would make me change my mind or modify my opinion. Unfortunately, I have not heard anything that would make it possible for me to do that. However, I will continue to listen. I hope that anyone who hasn’t been heard on this matter will take the opportunity to make their opinion known. More importantly, I really hope that we can reach some kind of compromise on the bigger issue.
There is only one specific aspect of this discussion that I would like to comment on further. The charges of racism, and the chain of logic used by those making the charge, are completely ridiculous and have no place here. The logic that many of you have used goes something like this: “Taste was a cool place, I liked going to Taste, Taste had to close because their lease was not renewed, I am a latino/latina, therefore the landlord is a racist.” I have read this exact conclusionary process here several times and it’s completely bogus. It shows that those making the charge have no idea what they are talking about. Anyone who knows Tom McEnery knows that he is not a racist. Don’t take my word for it, walk around San Pedro Square and look for yourself. The residential and business tenants of McEnery’s block are of every possible race, color, age and religion. Have a look at the customers in the businesses on the block, and you will find people of every race on earth on any given day.
No matter what is said here, this particular incidence is history. Isaac and Ray seem like nice people and I wish them the best of luck, but Taste and the old Cuccini nightclub are not coming back to San Pedro Square. I am hoping we can now aim this discussion in a direction where we can actually affect the future. We must all be able to coexist in this downtown. I believe young people need places to go to have fun and residents need to be able to live in peace. These are not mutually exclusive and the only way to get to where we need to be is to act reasonably, take responsibility for our actions and conscientiously avoid disturbing the peace of others, either directly or indirectly. To do this, we need to discuss every aspect of this issue openly with each other and find ways to satisfy all the different needs. To this end, we are happy to continue to provide this forum, so I hope all of you will take the opportunity to make a positive contribution to finding a way forward from where we are now.
Bottom line. There has to be a way to co-exist. Downtown IS the place for venues such as night clubs. Period. I’m not saying you have to move all the people out of downtown, but c’mon… let’s get real here.. you live downtown, what do you expect?? Peace and quiet? You have to tolerate it. Just like people have been tolerating the airport and the flights that come in and out all day over everyones houses. And for the record, yes… I USED to live downtown myself and my parents used to live downtown when we were kids. Look, I’m not saying the public urinations and other issues that are happening are ok. I understand that it is an issue. But you cannot honestly blame those things on the venues. How can you for sure say what vomit and what urinations came from what club. C’mon. So why the blame on a nice club like Taste and Sabor??? Besides, what people do once they leave the premises is not totally be blamed on the clubs. When all is said and done, those things are moral issues that lie within each individual person. How do you fix the problem?? That’s a good question… do I have the answer?? No.. does that make me part of the problem?? No. All I know is that I do not contribute to it, nor do the people I surround myself with. Do you have the answer Christian? Kathleen? No. Christian, I read you pointing out that everyone doesn’t have the solutions or even the thought of a solution… so then, tell us all..we are dying to know.. what is Christian’s theory of the solution? I don’t think I’ve read YOUR solution….
All I know is that getting rid of the nightlife downtown isn’t going to fix the problem. Especially places like Taste/Sabor. They are the few places with upscale service and the least amount of problems. These are the types of venues we should want to have downtown. Why not complain about the homeless problem downtown, or other nightlife venues where the low lives actually go, why not try to control the issues with the clubs who cater to those who actually cause all the drama like stabbings/riots and fights? How can those places remain open still??? As for shutting down nice places like Sabor/Taste…..I’ll tell you why they are trying to get rid of them…. all these talks of public urination and vandalism aren’t the true underlying issues of why these PARTICULAR venues are having issues with trying to keep their businesses open. Fact is… McEnery doesn’t want “our people” in the building. Yes..our people, I’m a Latina and proud of it. Say what you want about my bringing this up… say “race card”, say it’s not true, blah blah…if you honestly believe that this still can’t happen and is not happening in this day and age then pull the wool back over your eyes..but the truth speaks for itself… facts are facts. I agree with Ray’s (Cuccini Owner) posting #47 and Isaac’s (Taste Owner)posting #22. In my opinion I think McEnery’s using his influences, his pull, his money, whatever he’s got in order to rid these bldgs where our people of color frequent for nightlife. I bet he’d “rather have the building empty than have our people in it”. I bet I can quote him on that.
Anyway… it’s been fun. I’ve said my piece. Goodnight!
Isaac, and Ray, I too want to thank you for participating in this conversation. I’ve learned a lot from you both. Ray, I hope your health continues to improve, and that you are around for many decades to come! I wish you both much luck in your future endeavors.
To All: My hope is that in future, we can all work together so that DT becomes a fun, livable, respectable, SAFE place for people of all ages, races, and genders to enjoy. I support bringing back the Pay Cop Program the IPA took a way, I support soft closings, so if you do too and you want to make a positive difference, please send an email to the Mayor and your Council Person telling them you do too!
#86- Jack,
I want to thank you for acknowledging that you have allowed some serious violations of your comment policy because the constant racist, rude comments directed not only at others, but towards me have brought this conversation to an end for me. My hope is that you stop allowing it hence forth as it is counter productive and discourages honest open exchanges of ideas, and thoughts.
While I can understand the frustration and anger of the younger crowd, taking their anger out on me or others, or using race or personal attacks to defend their position on this issue only makes an intelligent, productive dialog on this topic impossible. Hence I will not be adding any more comments to this discussion after this post. I hope to see others continue on in a respectful, positive manner because a side from the racist, personal remarks I’ve learned quite a bit from this thread.
#86 – Jack –
I would like to follow my own question, and list out what I CURRENTLY DO to try to address this, and other questions that involve our city. First, I would like to thank you for this discussion. I would prefer to see more comments on how to solve the problem and achieve win-win solutions. I would also like to see comments that are derogatory and name calling to be screened out, as they serve no purpose other than to put someone else down. You have publicly said on this blog that you would screen them out; I am hoping you hold to your word. j
As to the actions I have taken to get involved in my community, and be heard on this issue:
– I have attended committee meetings on this subject.
– I have written the Mayor and Council on this issue.
– I have written my preference here on this and other public blogs.
I am in favor of a ‘pay-cop’ system, similar to the one San Jose had before the Police Auditor got it thrown out. I am also in favor of soft curfews, and a curfew for minors, to prevent them from drinking in these clubs.
The suits only care about one color: GREEN. All this back and forth over violations codes, and race, and the price of rice in China is moot. Bottom line is the clubs are going to go, PERIOD. Money is already in motion and Tom McEnery has WAY too much pull with the city. I mean if they were really going after “trouble nightclubs” then they’d close the caravan down the street; but they don’t cuz the caravan is not going eff up their plan. it’s not about “hoodlums and fights.” a “nightclub” is simply not part of their plans for that square block. it wouldn’t matter if it was a country western club or an old school 50’s music club. they don’t want “nightclubs” in or around that block. that’s it. plain and simple. and please, you guys are all talking like that ONE square block makes up ALL of downtown SJ. DT SJ stretches all over and there’s PLENTY of other places that make up “Downtown San Jose.”
Correction in my last post, #88:
– instead of “I am also in favor of soft curfews,…” I wanted to say, “I am also in favor of soft closings for nightclubs…”
#67 Christian
You said “Santana Row attracts more higher restaurants than downtown San Jose”, who are they????
“Who’s writing “FLY” these days? She/he called Cuccini an Italian restaurant and said it was “across the street” from Taste. Has FLY ever left the Metro building?”
Good catch about the location, johnmichael. The error (due to as much as anything to a deadline rush) did run in the newspaper, but we got it right in the SJI version (see above). And I’ll take your advice about getting out more.
Kathleen 69: The clubs on S. Second all have security @ night, and I believe the ones in SoFa do, as well. One night spot on S. Second escorts female workers to their cars @ closing. Security guy there tells me it’s a “nightmare” downtown on weekend nights @ closing.
#63 Johnmichael,
The operators that built and developed the Pavilion were from Chicago and didn`t have a clue.Good and smart business operators stayed away from the Pavilion after talking with these developers.They had nothing to sell but,they thought their project was in the middle of Union Square or on Nob Hill in San Francisco.The Pavilion was a very very risky concept.
Have you forgotten how difficult it was for the Fairmont to get up and profitable, how much money the RDA kept pumping into the hotel. The Hotel operators also took on new owners after a while and they purchased the Hotel property for a song.The new Downtown just couldn`t support the early pioneers.Many operators downtown still struggle to be profitable.
San Jose has successful neighborhoods and smaller towns surrounding it,it also has the problems of urbal sprawl. Why would someone want to leave home in Almaden Valley,Los Gatos and go backtown for dinner?
There has to be a draw that makes downtown a destination people want to return to in the evening.
Todays restaurants just can`t make it with just one good meal period like lunch.They need Lunch,Dinner and weekend business to survive.Most of, not all, leases in the newer buildings have triple net leases and cams, when property values go up downtown so do property taxes which are passed on to the business operators by the landlords.The landlords recieve the benefit of higher property values, but pass on the pain of the higher property taxes on to the lessor.This is one of the reasons the operators need to have both daytime, nite and weekend business to succeed, Santana Row for example gives that to the operators of businesses. Downtown has a way to go yet before it has the benefits of Santana Row/Westfield MAll.
Kathleen,
ALL of the clubs downtown employ huge amounts of security. If you don’t know that; you NEVER visit any clubs downtown.
If you never visit any clubs; HOW CAN YOU COMMENT ON THE CLUBS??????
All of your information seems to be what Jack and Mchenry post on SJI. If thats the case; I can tell you they are duped you and many others. It’s just not as bad as you think it is.
Regarding the difference in Santana Row to downtowns nightlife; the key difference is Santana Row clubs are allowed to hire off duty police; Downtowns clubs are not.
EVER SINCE THE CITY OUTLAWED PAY JOB OFFICERS FOR JUST DOWNTOWN, THE NIGHTLIFE HAS BECOME MORE AND MORE OF A PROBLEM!!!
Why not just bring back pay officers?
#68-TrishaC in 3rd Gen San Jose Native,
I guess having an intellectual, respectful conversation on this topic with folks like you who “love,” Taste and Sabor is impossible. Your comments and the way you’ve twisted things said exemplify the kind of entitlement attitude that is at the root of this problem. To people like you public urination, public vomiting, fighting, stabbings, shootings, public drunkenness is normal, and all just a part of the fun. It certainly proves my point, and speaks volumes about who frequents these clubs doesn’t it?
I don’t live in DT, nor do I live in Santana Row, and if you bothered to read my prior posts you would have known that, as well as, seen that I support nightlife in DT as long as there is no violence, etc.
You have a nice night yourself.
#92 – E,
You are not the only one who does not feel welcome in Downtown, or Santana Row. The oppression you feel as a Latino is the same oppression that African-Americans have experienced throughout history. It is the same oppression that the Little Saigon supporters felt, it is the same oppression people downtown feel when they are being chased out of their homes by violence in downtown. To say that you are being discriminated against because of your race might partially be true, but you are not a minority anymore. If you look at the population statistics, they bear this out. As a white male who has been downtown for events, and been harassed by hispanics for being white, is just as wrong as what you say is being done to you.
Santana Row caters to the affluent, something I can assure you I am not. When I have gone down there with my fiancee, it seems like a completely different world – Bentley’s parked on every corner for sale. You see exclusive shops and hotels, that we working stiffs can’t afford. The prices of their condo’s are well out of reach for the average working person, like you and I. I think race is being used too much to excuse bad behavior. I also think that it diminishes the chance to address the real problems our city is facing. We need to come together as a community to find a way to stop allowing people coming in from places like Oakland and Palo Alto from distroying our downtown. We can’t do that as long as racism is being used to deflect attention from the problem.
First of all, I will try not to respond to all the comments already posted. I would rather speak of my personal experiences. As a lifetime resident of San Jose I feel there needs to be room for both young people and families. San Jose wants to appear as a big city yet every other big city has clubs and bars. So what is the problem here?
This is my city too, and I enjoyed going to Taste. It was the one club where the crowd was upscale, dressed to impress, and there was a diverse crowd. When a city grows inevitably you will get more problems. Why is the answer to shut down night life? The people who start trouble are determining what happens, and it is not fair to people like me who just want to have a fun time. I do not feel like I should have to drive anywhere but my own city to go to a club. I am sorry but I do not feel welcome at Santana Row. I am starting to not feel welcome Downtown. I too have experienced the racial profiling. I have been pepper sprayed by cops for no reason. No, I have never been arrested and yes I am a college graduate. Young people simply want choices, and want to support downtown nightlife. And for the record the majority of the crowd was minorities such as Latinos. Forgive us if we feel targeted. It is really easy to say we are playing the race card when you have no idea what it feels like to be a minority.
I agree with your comments about people comming in from Oakland, I`d add San Leandro and Hatward. So are you for or against bringing BART into our downtown from the East Bay Cities I just mentioned???
There are people that want to see our downtown rid of the undersirables from the East Bay Cities but, some of those same people would like to see BART downtown at any cost,“both for lack of social value” but as long as their downtown property values go up, these same people that oppose the roudy crowd would allow them to ride in and out on BART.Just think, they could come down, get drunk, cause a ruckess, destroy property, fight with our police and get back on BART and return home in Oakland,San Leandro,Hayward etc.
In otherwords they oppose violance and drunken disorderly people, but if their property values go up because of BART, well then that is a good trade off to them.
#94
Jack, my question on #94 is for Christian. You seemed to have missed my address to Christian.thanks Jack!
#94 – Richard –
Bart – although this is not the forum for this debate, I will answer your question, with the understanding that we stay on topic. I don’t have a hard opinion either way. I can see positives (a few listed) – It could help (in a small way) lessen traffic on 101 and bring workers to Silicon Valley, and get traffic off the road (in this era of high gas prices). A few cons – the cost, the cost, the cost, that they want to put it up San Fernando and tear up the street so they can end at the college and City Hall(I understand PG&E’s lines go under that street – good luck navigating that!), among others. I am sure you are better educated on this issue, and at some later date, I would welcome your insight.
Richard – I do admire you for one thing – when you believe in something, you do get involved, something I have been trying to impress upon some of the posters here on this issue. I would just like to see them try to solve the problems that city hall and the police bring up – the violence, public urination, etc.
#84—so they all bought their hoochy mama dresses @ Hammer & Lewis? $$ to a downtown biz. owner of long standing.
Remember, class is a noun, not an adjective.
#85: I got here in ‘73. Downtown was a bombed out looking dead zone. Run down buildings and empty weed-filled lots. A year or so ago someone sent me a series of photos of DT taken in the ‘70s, then photos of the same places currently. What a makeover! I think I mistakenly deleted the series, but I did send them along to Tom McE.
I thought it was Ms. Atard’s predecessor that ended the pay cop program—Ms. Guerrero-Daly, now a judge.
#88- I think the minors drinking (vomiting, urinating) OUTSIDE the clubs also needs to be addressed seriously. Zero tolerance. Card all these yahoos, and bust ‘em if they are underage with booze.
92 wrote:“San Jose wants to appear as a big city yet every other big city has clubs and bars.” Most people in SJ do NOT want big city status and big city problems. They are suburbanites, not city folk. A relatively small number of SJ residents—mostly those with an economic stake, like The McEnerys—want SJ to become a city, with a DT like other big cities. SNI is a clear example of most people caring far more about their little part of SJ than about SJ itself. I know tons of folks who rarely, if ever, come DT, and when they do, it’s out of absolute necessity. If you had a referendum to put $$ DT vs. in the neighborhoods, I’d be stunned if 20% voted for more $$ DT.
That said, I’d personally like a vibrant DT with more high density housing, and more restaurant and club options. But the vast majority of San Joseans could not care less.
From a person living in the east bay, all my life i’ve commuted 40 minutes every other weekend to san jose for the beautiful diverse culture of arts and entertainment. Taste Ultra Lounge brought that back, and i was proud to tell friends from the east coast, las vegas or wherever, that we have a wonderful place of art, culture and music .. In any downtown area across the United States there will always be issues with crowds associated with nightlife, but to put blame on just 1 or 2 nightclubs is extremely ignorant. I’ve witnessed many drunk patrons from various bars across downtown that have created issues. I’ve been to Sabor, and its the classiest, upscale club in the downtown region. At least give it a chance. Whats a city without culture ?
I went to Taste many times. The club had a very high class atmosphere with a New York City club feel. As many club goers know, New York clubs know how to throw a good party. Whenever I had guests from out of town who were interested in a good party, I would always take them to Taste since it was a nice club with a mixed crowd of people from all backgrounds. I think the point of going downtown at night in any city is to experience the culture, restaurants and nightlife. Without these things to draw the young crowd, downtown San Jose will be a bore. I think Taste and Sabor should have a chance since that’s what the american dream is all about.