The San Jose Mercury News editorial and article on Sunday about the state of our downtown brought up more issues that will inspire further debate about what kind of downtown we all want.
The main issue of the article was the policing of downtown—something we have discussed at great length on San Jose Inside—which doesn’t have a simple solution. But, the money the city is spending on police being downtown is not just the city’s responsibility. Those that cause the conditions that warrant extra policemen should definitely bear some of the financial responsibility for it. Fly-by-night promoters and nightclub owners would think twice about opening a sleazy club for a quick buck if they knew they had to shell out some money from their own pockets for police protection of those exposed to their clubs and patrons. It is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed.
Then there is the matter of the closing of the streets and some nightclubs complaining that it’s hurting their business. I call foul! Studio 8 actually filed a complaint, but in the few times I have been in that nightclub, the people were packed in like sardines, the drinks were weak and small, the cover charges outrageous, and they had the money to pay their cage dancers, so things couldn’t be that bad.
Also, the idea of soft closings brings up an interesting debate because we do have a culture in San Jose of rushing people out of the clubs and onto the streets. Generally, it’s not the people occupied in the clubs that cause many of the problems; it’s the drunken people in the streets. Those that are in favor of soft closings say that it gives people time to sober up before they hit their cars. In principle it’s a nice idea, but have you ever seen anyone sober up between 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. in your life? I am sure that the 13 shots will just run right out of their systems while they spend that hour chatting about world peace and drinking green tea. That’s wishful thinking, people.
Then there is the issue of the downtown residents who will have to deal with noisy people out on the streets until 3 a.m. We can’t lose sight of our ultimate goal to make our downtown a place where people work AND live. So, soft closings might just add another hurdle to the living part of that equation.
At the least, I commend people for recognizing that there is a problem in our downtown and brainstorming creative solutions. I think that there are people who care about creating a downtown for everyone and ending this reputation of San Jose as a place for troublemakers. At least now I can say that I have faith in City Hall to make some changes that might actually work.
Single Gal,
Since your the single scene expert. Which places are sleazy and which are worth keeping in downtown?
The mecury says there are over 40 nightclubs and bars. Which of those are not a problem and can exist with the new condos?
My solution for San Jose downtown after dark (the EZ) is not to go there. I wonder how many real San Joseans go clubbing in the EZ after dark. I don’t want hassels with drunks, I don’t want hassels with the police so when I am home, those hassels don’t happen. If I want to take in a concert or a sporting event that occurs in the EZ I go. But I don’t go clubbing. I wonder how many out-of-towners are clubbing in the San Jose EZ on weekends and Mardi Gras. They are probably the majority.
I support the “soft closing” concept because it’s got to be better than forcing thousands on the streets at 1:45AM with the riot cops closing off half of the street grid.
As a downtown resident, I resent and oppose street closings. Cops should be there to enforce the peace. How do street closings accomplish this? Last year on 5 May, the cops closed 2nd street by 2300, forcing me blocks out of the way trying to return to my home.
Saw a report on KTVU this morning about police response to tonight’s expected debauchery, and was encouraged to hear that the SJPD actually sought and used input from SJDA in creating its strategy for policing this evening.
Would it be possible for the city to collect an extra tax on any alcohol sold in SJ? This would be like the gas tax, those who consume pay. The revenue would go towards police. I know there already is a lot of tax on booze but I don’t think a little more would hurt. Perhaps it might encourage a few to drink a little less.
Could they start staggered closings at 12am? They could have a revolving schedule to make it fair to all clubs. We need to make the downtown liveable but part of the urban experience is the noise, otherwise they should move to the Burbs.
Wow you guys are out of it you have to start fining club owners and let’s say after three fines, then it’s a close down for 30 days.
it’s not that hard hit these people where their money is and the problems will stop.
I shoud run for district 6 since I have the answers! and the 2 bozos have none…
Hey Old Guy –
How old are ya? Anyway, I like the Irish Pubs more than the clubs but sometimes you get in the mood to dance. When I go to the clubs, its sad to say, I bring a group of friends and we really go in and make our own good time because the element in these places leaves a little be desired. I have gone to Studio 8, The Voodoo Lounge, the Blue Monkey and the Vault to dance. Everyplace but the Vault felt safe to me. The Vault felt a little “sketchy”. Anyway I want a place where I can dance and not feel like I am in world where I don’t want to talk to anyone.
SG said :“Generally, it’s not the people occupied in the clubs that cause many of the problems; it’s the drunken people in the streets.”
And just where did they get drunk, SG, in the streets? Far too many people get served far too many drinks after they are already well beyond “under the influence”. If the ABC started fining owners and bartenders for continuing to serve obviously intoxicated people, as they are empowered to do by law, the situation would cool off in a NY minute. Second offense could be a license suspension, third offense a license revocation.
Yeah, yeah, the bars would make less money and sales tax would go down a bit; and they could drink some at home, too; but it’s a start. We have laws on the books to lessen this problem. They should be utilized.
Native #2: Enriwuq Garcia of SJPD opined this a.m. on TV that the majority of troublemakers during the last 2 Mardi Gras were from outside San Jose. I presume he checked ther arrest records before he made that statement. The same may be true of the regular troublemakers who find their way to our EZ.
The EZ demographic these days is younger than my son, so I just don’t go downtown in the evening any longer, except to an occasional play, or the Capital Club. Never clubbing. Single people my age (60)have very limited entertainment options in San Jose. Pete Escovedo’s venue failed because middle agred jaz fans with money were put off by the other denizens of SoFA. I once drove down to Pete’s place with my then-girfriend, and even she didn’t want to get out of the car when she saw the folks lined up across the street at the other old movie theatre converted to a club, and she was 37 at the time.
The folks with the most $$ to spend dowtntown just don’t want to go there.
I’m seriously reconsidering my plan to move downtown to one of the new medium rises (Pleeze don’t call them high rises) under construction now. If the situation stays the same, I’ll just continue to say no to downtown.
I have lived in San Jose since I was a small child. Downtown used to have very little. In fact, as recently as 10 years ago, I used to spend almost every weekend in SF. Now, as a 30-something, I enjoy spending time in downtown SJ on the weekends, or even weeknights. There are many great restaurants and there are bars, lounges, clubs,… whatever my friends and I are in the mood for. My friends and I are all professionals who make good money and spend it downtown. From time to time, I will also see a good show at the Rep, check out an exhibit at MACLA or catch an act at the Improv. All in all, downtown is headed in the right direction. A variety of options for those of us who don’t mind the crowds, enjoy spending our money locally and don’t fear the “younger” clientele, who are also (at least the FAR majority) just trying to enjoy themselves on the weekend. I look forward to more restaurant openings, soft closings, the various festivals and events as the Spring approaches and open communication between the owners, police and the community to smooth out some of the significant bumps in the road.
#9 JMO.
About your second paragraph, The ABC could
send a strongly worded letter of intent to enforce the law regarding intoxicated persons to all of the clubs. Then when a club got cited make sure there was plenty of publicity about it. The clubs should not complain about “heavy handed tactics” if this approach were taken.
This is a legitimate 24hr downtown we have. Like the Merc. said, “we need to balance things out and find the right groove.” Downtowns like Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, Kansas city, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Detroit and many other cities would kill to have what we have. I’ve recently been to those cities in the last 2 years, and nothing happening in the downtown cores of those cities. The so-called thugs are wrecking havocs in San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Montreal, Toronto, Minneapolis, and many other cities that have successful nightlife scenes. Don’t forget, downtown San Jose has a thriving art scene, including first Fridays’ art walk. The question is “do you a vibrant urban center or a sleepy burb?” Right now, we have a thriving downtown that’s trying to adjust the volume(coming up with the right nightlife mix and quantity).
#9 –
What SG was trying to say is that it’s the people who can’t get into the clubs who are causing the trouble: the 19 year-olds cruising around and looking for a fight, etc. That’s where all the trouble comes from, much, much more than the bars overserving people.
The pathetic article in the Merc yesterday pulled every punch and completely ignored the larger societal issue that other folks don’t understand: that what many 19 year-olds do these days is cruise around, show off their car stereos, look for chicks and look for a fight and break stuff. That’s what they do. You have to tackle the issue on that level. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many clubs are downtown. More and more of our younger folks simply grow up with a gang mentality.
Basically, people just can’t get laid. That’s the problem.
And the police, initially, thought that they could just swoop in and use overwhelming force to deal with it, and it only exacerbated the whole thing. Now more people come downtown to look for trouble. you have gang-bangers from East Palo Alto coming downtown and jumping the punk rock dudes coming out of the live music bars. Just because they feel like it. They think it’s THEIR neighborhood. None of this ever gets reported because the cops want to maintain the “safest big city” nonsense.
They are indeed starting to make changes and enforce curfews and stuff, but they’ve still got a long way to go. Hassling the clubs for every stupid little thing and making all the security guards wear name badges as if they were in kindergarten doesn’t accomplish anything. Nor does making surprise fire marshall inspections at the same bar every two days. In the day time. And you’ve got ABC sneaking minors in through the back door and when they get to the bar, the bartender assumes that the front door has already carded the person, so they don’t card him. And they get busted. And you have ABC sneaking in someone who’s a day younger than 21 and then deliberately hitting up the bartender right when she’s buried with twenty customers and she just doesn’t look closely enough at the license, and then they bust her. This is the kind of nonsense that goes on all the time and it’s getting ridiculous. Yes, the bars do overserve, but there’s got to be a way to compromise here.
And you are correct about Pete Escovedo’s place. The clientele he was trying to go after just won’t go to that block. He even tried pulling in folks from the California Theate, but they just wouldn’t go. People basically park across the street, go to that theater, and then leave downtown. They don’t spill over into anywhere else because the crowds just don’t mix.
The Improv is the same way. Hardly anybody from downtown actually goes there. They come in from somewhere else, see the show and then leave the area.
Again, things are getting better, but there’s a long way to go…
I am also happy to hear people are working together on a solution. Hopefully it won’t take years to implement.
I am in favor of soft closings. Crowds aren’t pushed out of bars and those drinking can cool off. It creates less drama on the streets If they are drinking too much they shouldn’t be driving anyway.
Underage kids who are drinking should be looked after by the police and if there is a curfew for under 18 it should be maintained.
Coordination between club owners and police would be ideal.
If I want to enjoy myself tonight, Poor House Bistro would be the best bet and the right place to go, because they are actually celebrating Mardi Gras!
#10 & #12 have outstanding viewpoints. But after 20-plus years of trying, our instant gratification society is right to be asking “why aren’t we there yet?”
Jon McO #9. Thank you. You are right on. If you look at the crowd on the street you’ll see that those of us older than 60 don’t really belong there. Stay out here with us in good old WG and enjoy Lincoln Ave after dark. I understand that Santana Row is starting to have EZ type problems. I’ll be interested in reading tomorrows headlines.
RIPavilion, the phrase of “why aren’t we there” can be subjective and applicable to any thriving cities as follows: Seattle, Portland, Toronto, Montreal, Denver and many others. In my opinion, it(downtown San Jose) has reached over the ” hump”.
If, as # 13 asserts, the bulk of the problem is underaged thugs harassing drinkers and non drinkers alike, that problem should be dealt with by passing and enforcing an anti-cruise ordinance. The third time any single car passes, they are cited. If they return, they are arrested and booked.
That does not handle roving bands afoot, however; and we cannot constitutionally prevent obnoxious people from wandering our streets.
In the old days, the cops, unfettered by the ACLU, handled the problem well. People knew when they weren’t wanted, and left…or else. I kinda liked those old days, but alas, they are gone forever. It’s called profiling now, but it really is knowing who belongs and fits in (like, merely obeying the rules of polite society)as opposed to who doesn’t, and getting rid of the who doesn’t crowd.
Native # 16: actually it’s worse than 60-types—downtown is pretty much contgrolled by the under-30 set, so even 40 year olds seem out of place except for The Rep, Opera, SJ Stage, and Agenda DOWNSTAIRS BEFORE 9:00 p.m.
Geezers like me have few places to play in S-Jay any more.
I heard Gov. Bill Richardson has bought out Capers Loft tonight for a private function beginning @ 4:00 p.m.
Maybe the extra security he brings can help out our boys in blue with the annual Mardi Gras riot downtown.
Film @ 11:00??!!
What would the City State of Singapore do if they encountered the problems DSJ is experiencing? Here’s my tidbit on what should be done downtown:
1) As many have posted already, continue to hit the cruisers hard and go after the juvenile delinquents violating curfew.
2) Hit the drunken thugs looking for trouble even harder! With heavy fines, jail time, and restraining orders (“I’m banned from going downtown for the next 90 days because I’m a complete idiot who likes to get drunk”).
3) Have the clubs enforce a dress code; no more football jerseys, XXX t-shirts that extend past the knees, clothes (or lack of) that reveal to much skin, or baggy pants that “sag” way past the waistline.
4) Lastly, more venues in the likes of the defunct P. Escevedo Latin Jazz club and less catering to “gangzta” rap and Hip Hop.
I’m sorry but I’ve got to say that last night’s uberpolicing was necessary. Not in the sense that we want to give the impression “don’t come to San Jose because we’re no fun.” But we’ve got to get over the impression that San Jose is the place to come to get rowdy and cause havoc for Mardi Gras. This all started when a wonderful event, Post Street Mardi Gras, started getting too big for its confines and overrun by thug nation. Once thug nation ruled the day it would take a long time to convince those that would spoil the “good clean fun” of Mardi Gras that San Jose is closed to the likes of you.
I would venture to guess that it will take another couple of years of Mardi Gras crackdowns like last night to convince thug nation that the free ride to San Jose is over and they’ll have to look for trouble elsewhere. Then we can all get back to the Mardi Gras celebration we deserve.
#20 not a chance. Armando, the manager, was standing outside the door turning myself away saying they are closed. It was 8pm. Unbelievable since this would be a big money night.
I then went to the Ultra Lounge down the street it was slow but had 7 bartenders and gearing up for a big night. I finally left at 9:15pm. The police presense was every where. Second street was closed between Santa Clara and San Fernando.
With all the police presense something is going to happen. I think to this point it is brought on by so many police but I understand order needs to be maintaned.
RIPavilion,
the mardi gras on post was a mistake and a joke from day one. they used the wrong radio station (wild 94.9) which brought the exact crowd that is ruining downtown on a regular basis.
That crowd of low lifes on the streets last night and most weekend nights is the demo of 94.9.
The nightclubs in the pavilion back in the day were ruined by that worthless station. And all the present day problem clubs are related to the 94.9 station.
OH! So now we know that all the evil in the world can be pinned on one SAN FRANCISCO radio station!
Just got an email from a local freind called “Bay Area Barbies”. Here’s what they say about San Jose. I guess the word is out. “” San Jose Barbie”
This recently paroled Barbie comes with a 9mm handgun, a Ray Lewis knife, a Chevy with dark tinted windows, and a Meth Lab Kit. This model is only available after dark and must be paid for in cash (preferably small, untraceable bills) …unless you are a cop, then we don’t know what you are talking about. ”
I agree that 94.9 could be the end of the world as we know it….it does not bring a good crowd that is for sure