Along with the growth of San Jose, a new change is coming that we haven’t seen before: high-rise luxury housing in our city’s core. As I drive through downtown and see the cranes in the sky around these towering developments, I can’t help but wonder how it will work. This is such a drastic change from the way people live here—sprawling suburbs with ample parking, mini-malls within a 5-minute drive, and cul-de-sacs with kids riding skateboards and shooting hoops. However, I do believe there is a market for this kind of housing. It just remains to be seen how big that market actually is.
With tech workers making so much money, I don’t think the affordability of these high-rise units will be the issue, but, rather, the permanence of owning and the practicality. Do the workers on H-1B visas want to own in Silicon Valley, or would they rather rent an apartment in Sunnyvale that is a 5-minute Caltrain ride from their job? Perhaps for those that have the money to spend, and including maybe couples without kids (DINKS) and fresh retirees that want to get rid of the hassles of owning a home, there are a few other important questions. Will there be enough for them to do if they do decide to purchase and will they feel safe downtown? Parking could also be an issue, considering that we don’t have the public transportation to get them to and from their residences and there isn’t an easy way for guests to visit them. Will they want to look out and see the city rather than a tree-lined street?
Not that this way of living doesn’t seem attractive. Some of the housing boasts gorgeous views and unbelievably beautiful layouts. Check out Axis Housing (now being built behind the De Anza Hotel). It looks like a vacation resort and I would live there in a heartbeat. Also, have a look at 360 Residences on South First Street, across from the California Theatre.
The success of these projects, given the mass of people they will bring in, could help create the downtown we all want and need. Cross your fingers that it works. Or, better yet, you can have a hand in their success for just a small down payment.
SG: The sprouting of high-end downtown condos is following a trend toward same that has already gone through various phases in other established metro areas. San Diego has had a boom, then a bust, and now a mini-boom with this type of housing. Portland, Seattle, experiencing strong growth. Downtown L.A. , like SJ, is just getting on the bandwagon. with lots of cranes there, too.
For real estate developers it’s relatively cheap land for this kind of housing but also a bigger risk as dtsj and dtla are not ‘established’ downtowns in the sense of having a recent history of affluent residents.
My biggest concern for the developers downtown is how the proximity to the airport flightpath may compromise the attractiveness of these condos. FAA already restricts how high these condos can go, and my bet is that they’ll run the risk of being noisy and people will be unable to use balconies or open windows.
A downtown airport has some advantages for business travelers but its sorely limits downtown growth for residents.
Downtown LA does have established downtown highrises, and more in mini-cities like Century City. Sunset Blvd. has miles of high rise condos worth millions each. But LA has serious shopping everywhere. And NO rapid transit worth mentioning. What will make gorgeous high rise condos not work in SJ is total lack of retail, and no plan for it. San Diego did Horton Plaza 20 years ago and it was, and is, a great draw. The Pavilion was just way too small and focussed. It needs to be many blocks—but the historical preservation folks will get in the way of that. George Green
The new highrises being built in downtown are opulent, plush, luxurious, lavish, sumptuous and extravagant. This is why I cannot live in them. I will continue to embrace my spartan, austere, frugal, simple and thrift lifestyle.
I’ve wondered the same things, too. But if other cities can do it, we can too. And you’re right, hopefully it will pull in more retail businesses and restaurants.
You wonder if the city with the highest median (or was it mean?) income will be open to the idea of expensive luxury lifestyle? Why is it even a question? The reason downtown didn’t work before was because few people lived there. Now people are wondering if the opposite is true. Well damn, it has to start with the chicken or the egg, right? One of them must be the correct answer. Once people move in, then so will even more shops and restaurants and so on (downtown actually has quite a bit now). That’s the pattern everywhere. You put facilities where people live, not the living where the facilities are.
Also, I agree on the dreamed San Carlos light rail. That would be a great way of expanding the city’s core. It wouldn’t just link the two sites via rail, but spur growth in connecting the two areas as one large downtown corridor.
#2
My biggest concern for the developers downtown is how the proximity to the airport flightpath may compromise the attractiveness of these condos. FAA already restricts how high these condos can go, and my bet is that they’ll run the risk of being noisy and people will be unable to use balconies or open windows.
Bingo!! You hit the nail on the head.
As long as the airport is there, downtown will never thrive, and these condos will turn into rental dumps.
It is time our politicians started acting as leaders, not as special interest group lackeys, and begin the process to close the airport and move it to Hollister. Just imagine how much better this entire area will be once the 1000 acres of airport land is used in an intelligent manner than enhances society, rather than in a manner that degrades society.
George, I agree with the Turk. They tried putting retail downtown first. It was a very stupid try that was doomed to fail but they did try it. They’ve handed out subsidies for retail endeavors since the Pavilion failed and still not much has changed downtown. Now they are trying the other approach, putting people there first. I think this makes more sense. Business people will see the opportunity with this customer base and hopefully retail will begin to take off.
I don’t think the preservationists will be a problem. So much of downtown has been leveled already, there’s enough raw real estate to build something Horton-esque on without creating an uproar.
Another advantage to rebuilding the San Carlos light rail (I say “rebuilding” because old-timers know that there used to be one) would be parking for free at Valley Fair or Santana Row and taking the light rail to downtown.
An advantage to shoppers, anyway.
But as #6 says, in the long term the two areas could grow together. A lot of high-density housing is being built on or near San Carlos right now, while the retail possibilities are less developed. Just please don’t force out the existing businesses and replace them with chain stores.
#1, the “ticket” for the future residence of downtown San Jose (and residence of SJ in general) is future BART and High-Speed rail through Diridon Station. Imagine travel between SJ and SF in 44 minutes via HSR! Or using BART for travel up the East Bay instead of driving 880. The residence of future downtown high-rises will have the convenience of superior transit to venture affar, with retail, restaurants, and bars at their doorsteps. Hey Mark T., how about something “Horton-esque” across the street from HP Pavilion? While I would have personally preferred a Major League Ballpark, it isn’t happening. But the location as a major transit hub makes Diridon-Arena a prime spot for massive retail/residential development. Now, if we could just convince Arnold to leave the HSR bond initiative on the 08 ballot…
I stand corrected on my HSR travel times: 39 minutes between SJ Diridon and SF! 15 minutes between SJ Diridon and Gilroy, 44 minutes between SF/Gilroy.
Let’s do the math again, Anthony #11: If it’s 39 minutes SF to Diridon and 15 minutes Diridon to Gilroy, it’s 54 minutes SF to Gilroy, not 44…all of which assumes no stops SF to Gilroy.
Re housing dowtown being opulent or luxurious, I’m not so sure. Barry’s City Heights is his typical product—not luxurious by any stretch. And, he has a sign advertising a $50k incentive. Doesn’t say much for the market.
360 residences looks great on paper, but has problems. They advertise “Euro” cabinets, whatever that is, but designed for us to go ooh/ahh. I’ve taken the tour. The cabinets are cheap particle board with veneer, but nice hinges. One parking space per unit, including 2 & 3 bedroom units. NO GUEST PARKING. No overhead electrical CAPABILITY. No hardwood floor option. Poor floor plan design. They spent all their $$ on designing a cool exterior.
Haven’t seen Axis floorplans or sales office; same for 88, which would be my first choice location. Axis & 360 are too close to airport flight path for all glass exteriors; but I look forward to seeing models when they open and would like to move downtown from Willow Glen.
#10 Anthony. We need a successful downtown that generates a lot of income for the city, while at the same time attracting people to live downtown and supporting it. The last thing San Jose needs now is a failure downtown. The researgance of downtown is paramont to our cities future.
Chicago, its downtown has department stores in high rise buildings. The first ten floors of the John Hancock building houses a Macy`s and a shopping center, condos are on the buildings top floors, all is not lost downtown. Our creative people need to get busy in downtown S J.
We need a more extensive transportation system within our city. We just can`t just keep on building high density residential along our freeways without a good infrastructure plan.
Interstate 280 going up the pennisula and the 101 north are already a serious problem. BART, we have a hard time funding BART from Fremont to San Jose without thinking about another BART project to be funded.
Instead of removing trees for the race car tract downtown, we should have moved the ones on San Carlos, maybe we still should. We should connect BART and the Lightrail in Fremont/Milpitas area now, while we figure out how to finance BART to downtown. The Raiders coming to Automall Parkway in Fremont is going to create another traffic problem, no rapid transit is planed from S J to Automall Parkway for football fans, and the Raiders are planning on San Jose football fans to be part of their success in the new stadium.
Lots of problems and no money.
Tom,
Downtown is looking great. Being a native San Josean like you and remembering what downtown used to look like, the change is great. So many things to do downtown and I`m sure there is more good things to come.
There is a little of the sugurb left downtown, we still have to get in our cars to go shoping at Westfield Mall or Santana Row. I wish those Palm trees wer not down the middle of San Carlos street, instead we had a light rail connecting downtown with the Valley Fair/Santana Row areas. What a missed opportunity.
The views of the valley will be great, but I wouldn`t want a view looking down at the Northbound Interstate 280 in the mornings. Northbound 101 is just as bad with bumper to bumper traffic.
We still need our cars to get around the south bay Santa Clara County and San Mateo county cities. The Cal Train is good when we are going from a point to a point, but otherwise we are stuck in a traffic nightmare.
We desperatly need to work on a better VTA program or find a solution to the traffic problem. With all the construction along the I-280 coridor, the interstate will become worse than the Santa Monica Freeway or the 101 going in and out of San Francisco. Look at the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle last week, read the traffic nightmare S Franciscans are having on the !01 in and out.
Tom, do you have any solutions for the traffic problems we are headed for on I-280 or the 101 north?
JMOC,
I stand corrected once again on HSR travel times: 29 minutes between SJ Diridon and SF! I sometimes type to fast for my own good. As for the incentives at City Heights, you’ll find incentives everywhere due to the housing slump. I do think CH’s looks to much like an old Chicago housing project; thus in my eye the least attractive of the current developments.
Once again finfan has nailed it. I don’t hold out a lot of hope that downtown retail will ever amount to much before I transition into fixed income living.
Anthony, it seems HSR will shave a bit of time compared to the baby bullets, but for me HSR is all about getting to LA without the airport hassles. I would never fly into LA—not even my beloved Burbank airport—again! HSR absolutely must go through SJ and it seems the HSR decision makers agree.
Wow! Another great fin fan piece. So well said. Eloquent. Downtown can be downtown again—BUT the scale has to be bigger than the piddly RD Pavilion. First, Chuck needs to hire a BIGTIME architect/planner. Frank Gehry? I’ll bet he’d take that big old art deco highrise across from Shitty Hall and get rid of what’s there, fill it with high end jewelry brokers—like the Jewelry Mart in SF. Blocks near downtown would go down to make shopping areas, like La Brea in LA. But everyone is terrified of pissing off the Historical Houses Hobbyists—who once again successfully sued the city over the IBM Bldg. 25, and will shortly be bragging about it, tho neither they nor the judge have a clue about how and why IBM 25 could accomodate Lowes, tho somehow the city planners couldn’t crack the nut in 40 pages of analysis—40 pages more than the HHH folks offered. High density residential downtown, again, is poor planning. Get the zip back in downtown, then build the condos. George Green
FinFan #15 is probably right.
As I have repeatedly said herein, the vast majority of San Joseans, Silicon Valleyites for that matter, simply could not care less about the success of downtown. Most residents here are suburbanites.
Downtowns in large cities have not typically ever been places where people reside, but where they go for shopping and entertainment. For a century or so, the denizens of the downtowns of large citites have been as FinFan harshly but accurately describes:“downtown residents contributed little more than transients, losers.”
Downtown has an allure for me for one main reason—convenience to work and my athletic club, which I work out in every day that I go to the office. If I could do it all afoot or on a little Vespa to grocery shop, and on weekends walk back from dinner and wine, I’d like that. But I’m thinking that rather than sell my Willow Glen abode and move to a downtown that may prove too noisy and troublesome, perhaps I should keep it, lease an apt. downtown for 6 months to see how I like the ambience. If I do like it, sell WG and buy a downtown condo. If not, all I’ve lost is 6 month’s rent, but have avoided a huge and costly mistake.
!7 – Just in case you’d like to base your opinion on facts instead of the fantasy you use now—this was not another suit against the city but the same one that has been pending for quite some time. The city had been warned they were proceeding with an illegal action and the court has upheld that position THREE times. Nothing to brag about, just the facts. In fact, if the city would follow the law and look at the value of adaptive reuse, they would have saved much time and money and they would now have a Lowe’s store on that. The city and Lowe’s seem to prefer litigation to compromise.
Also, preservationist have offered much that has not been made public in terms of alternatives. You may think you know everything about preservation and specifically about this case, but you do not.
As long as you insist on spouting your opinion that is based on inaccurate info it is difficult to give your comments much credibility.
Bringing retail to the downtown is easy to want, difficult to do. The idea that filling-up a handful of new residential high-rises will accomplish what a billion redevelopment dollars failed to do is just more of the same, that same being wishful thinking.
The downtown was once the retail center of the county, a status to which downtown residents contributed little more than transients, losers, and a handful of tottering blue hairs pulling their personal shopping carts. The people who spent money and crowded the downtown forty plus years ago came downtown—they didn’t live there. They came because downtown was where the big stores were, where the five-and-dimes were, where the movie houses were, where the specialty shops and the favorite restaurants were. None of this is true anymore: there are big stores everywhere; a Walgreen’s in every neighborhood; theatres scattered all about; specialty shops just keystrokes away; favorite restaurants in Los Gatos, Saratoga, and at Santana Row.
Downtown equals parking problems, bums on the corner, deafening planes overhead, unchecked troublemakers, and traffic danger to pedestrians. Santana Row equals none of that. Neither does Valley Fair. In both centers, patrons are treated to convenient parking, bum-free window shopping, a seasonal atmosphere, and uniformed security—all without the annoyance of honking horns, thumping sound systems, or close calls with the VTA. Los Gatos and Saratoga, on the other hand, offer shoppers a village atmosphere, the illusion of exclusivity, a better class of diversity, and a strong sense of safety.
From my seat, the challenge to recapture what once was downtown seems all but insurmountable. I hope I’m wrong, because I too appreciate the vibrancy and feel of a real downtown. But I fear I’m not wrong; I fear that you really can’t go downtown again.
Native, can we hear about the alternatives and adaptive re-use suggestions PACSJ has offered up for Bldg 25?
I’m not too concerned over what ultimately happens to Bldg 25, but I am very concerned that Lowe’s refuses to even negotiate. Their way or the highway. Seems they can’t think outside their own big box. That is no way to operate and while I can’t stand Home Depot, this is souring my opinion of Lowe’s. As for my feelings about Bldg. 25, please don’t lump me in the same category as George “Wrecking Ball” Green. I support historic preservation of architecturally significant buildings. I’m not so sure Bldg 25 qualifies though.
#7, what is it with targeting Hollister for an international airport? I’d get to SF or Oakland faster. Hwy 25 would have to become a 6-lane freeway. Moffet is the logical choice. Putting the airport way out in bum-f*ck Egypt doesn’t make any more sense than having it virtually downtown like it is now.
#17 must be Rip Van Winkle in disguise. The “piddly RD Pavilion” was originally scheduled to be a much larger development. The Pavilion you know was only Phase 1 of 4. It was only 25% of what it was supposed to be. But when the people of San Jose rejected the first 25% (with their wallets), the developers (and RDA) decided not to chance the other 75%.
And that “big old art deco highrise”? Wasn’t that originally redeveloped into luxury city apartments? I could swear that a former boss of mine “invested” in a penthouse in that “big old art deco highrise”. What happened? It failed miserably as luxury city apartments and was converted to “affordable housing”. The people of the city voted with their wallets. It had nothing to do with Historic Buildings, it was the free market at work.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with jmo’c. This city is too fragmented to rally around downtown redevelopment. You can’t convince any neighborhood resident that redevelopment works for them because it’s not spent directly on them. You can’t convince anyone of the tax and revenue benefits that could come their way because it’s not spent directly on them. There’s no such thing as deferred gratification here. Spend it on me, don’t spend it on “them”.
Until we come to a city wide consensus of where we want this city to go, we’ll never have a successful redevelopment—anywhere in the city. Unfortunately, we’re so focused on our own little fiefdoms that we’ll never be the city we could be. That’s why I favor cecession of all neighborhoods into their own happy little townships and break up the 10th largest city that can’t be a big city.
Check out downtown Denver! If you want a real downtown, go to Denver. They have it all! Everything San Jose wants is there. It’s the solving the equation today. Stop wishing for a real downtown and head to Denver, and it’s cheap! $450 for studio there. Have a good life!
My concern is this. Are the people buying these condos buying because they like the current state of Downtown SJ or are they buying because they have a vision or better yet illusion of what Downtown San Jose is going to become?
Are the Downtown luxury condo owners going to become yet another interest that the city is going to have to cater to when developing policy. And is this a good thing for the overall vision of the future Downtown SJ?
#17—I saw a picture of IBM #25 for the first time today. What an ugly building. To anyone who wants to save it:shut up, buy it, move it, and move along!
The PreservationNazis won again on another techincal/procedural misstep by the city, but to what end? The Murky News once again reported incorrectly that the flying disk drive was invented there. A fine example of poor architecture with no true historical significance.
To #22:” a guy who went to Denver in Campbell”: Where is “Denver in Campbell”? Is it near downtown? Or, did you mean A guy in Campbell who went to Denver? And people wonder why test scores are so low.
Uh, 17 # 21, what is the RD Pavilion? I feel so stupid.
It gets tiresome repeating the same thing on various threads here, but comparing SJ to Denver is apples & organges. Denver was an important city long before SJ started to morph into a giant suburb. Denver had a big time downtown while SJ’s was a cozy little down-home commercial hub for the rest of the county’s agriculturally-oriented clientele. Denver had already developed culturally before SJ was even developed period. SJ’s downtown was tiny before it was killed off in the early 60’s. We are trying to create something here that never existed. Largely without blueprints. Does that sound like a recipe for success to anyone?
As for the 1/4 Pavilion, I don’t think the people of SJ rejected it with their wallets. If Valley Fair and Santana Row are any indication, people around here are quite willing to open their wallets to an extreme degree. The Pavilion had no draw. No excitement associated with it. It was a morgue from day one and doomed to fail. It was delusional to think people would flock to a 25% finished retail center when there was no tennant placed there that would pull people in from the malls. I tried to shop there and support it, but found very little of interest. The Pavilion was 100% joke and 0% destination.
That “big old art deco highrise” was developed as dentists’ and doctors’ offices. That’s why it’s called the Medico-Dental Building. It was built in 1925.
Green: If you hate the development business so much, maybe you should get out of it.
O’Connor: Put on your thinking cap. We’re going to dissect this.
“Posted by a guy who went to Denver in Campbell”
“Posted by” is placed before the signature of every comment.
“a guy who went to Denver” is what the guy wrote in the “Name:” box.
“in” is automatically placed between the name given and the location given by the program that posts the comments.
“Campbell” is what the guy wrote into the box marked “Location:”
It’s really very simple.
20 – There are a number of alternatives floating around, including a smaller store footprint, using 25 as a garden center incorporated into the warehouse store, using it for other retail (coffee, food, etc.) I believe there have been other proposals made as well but your characterization of Lowe’s as being inflexible seems accurate. Compromise takes both sides for it to work.
24 – Your ignorance is showing (again). It doesn’t matter if you or anyone else thinks Building 25 is ugly. It doesn’t matter if anyone thinks it is beautiful. What does matter is the building scored very high by independent evaluators based on its mid-century architecture and on the history of what occurred there. Your insulting and childish slur calling people more educated than you on this subject “PerservationNazis” deserves no further comment other than it speaks volumes about the poster.
Since you have determined it has “no historical significance” I’m sure you’d like to share with us your preservation credentials that provide you with the knowledge to make this pronouncement. We’ll be waiting.
Why not make building 25 a nightclub!
JMO, I had to laugh when I read your remarks about #22.
Night before last I opened a box of an Indian side dish from Trader Joe’s. I read the blurb on the back and it advised that “Bhaji (guessing on that spelling) means vegetables in India.” I couldn’t help but envision artichokes on vacation.
Frankly, #27, I have as little regard for the panel of experts who designate this drivel as historically significant as I do for the arts juried panels who brought us Quetzalcoatl at half a mil$. Both groups are insiders with a personal mission with which most folks disagree. They have enough political clout to self-stamp themselves as experts to which we are all supposed to give way.
If you like it so much, raise money & buy it. Don’t make taxpayers pay for it when we don’t have enough cops, firefighters or decent roads. Use The Sempervirens Fund as a good example. Don’t make US pay for YOUR vision—it’s just another form of tyranny; thus, my name for you folks.
#17 and JMO
Did you guys read Scott Herhold’s article in the Merc today?
Is the Gloria Sciara noted the same one who was the chair of San Jose’s Historic Preservation Commission in 2003, a State “Certified Local Government” official for Historical Preservation evaluations, a member of PACSJ, and a member of the American Institute of Certified Planners?
Has anyone pressed the City to file a police report for damaging public property?
AV #31, I wonder if we can pursuade Ms Sciara to send her workers over to scoop up the turd once and for all. It’s only plastic and should be a quick and dirty job.
30 – Ah, JMO, you are so predictable. I know your mind is made up without getting bogged down by facts, but what do you make of the editorial in the Mercury today? They are now supporting saving Building 25 and calling for Lowe’s to compromise. I look forward to your blasting the “mediaNazis” about this. They clearly are not as knowledgeable as yourself on this topic so I look forward to you setting them straight.
Have yourself a ball.
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_7414041?nclick_check=1
Native, I hardly think the Merc’s call for compromise is going to sway JMO. But it has bothered me that through this whole process, Lowe’s has flatly refused to consider a compromise. Not exactly a friendly approach by a newcomer to SJ. Seems Lowe’s has made their mind up without getting bogged down by facts.
I’ve stated before that I can take or leave Bldg 25, but the more I think about Lowe’s approach to this issue, the more I find myself rooting for PACSJ. Hey, if a small band of activists can derail beautification and get a pile of crap that everybody hates plopped down instead, more power to PACSJ to humble Lowe’s arrogant attitude and advance their cause in the process. At this point, it has become a matter of principle for me, and Lowe’s needs to show more respect for this town in general, and the little historical inventory it still has in place. Maybe after this latest court decision, they will, but I won’t hold my breath. I’m sure this is still long from over.
Meanwhile, the city and Lowe’s are both out four years’ worth of revenues. But I suspect the people at OSH aren’t complaining.
#34 – Good for OSH. They’re a local store – I’d much rather support them than any national big box chain.
And regarding building 25 – I personally happen to be a fan of mid-century architecture. While I could take or leave that particular building, I do think it’s important to preserve buildings from that era. Earlier last century victorians, italianates, and art deco buildings were being pulled down left and right because the architecture was considered dated and ugly. Downtown lost huge swaths of interesting buildings in the name of ‘modernizing’ in the 60’s and 70’s – and what we have now can be called boring and uninspired, if you’re speaking gently. If those buildings had remained in place, or untampered with (the Crescent building had a much different facade initially, for example – much more ornate) our downtown would have a much different feel and many more charming buildings and far more character. I urge folks to pick up the historic look at downtown san jose that can be found at any barnes and nobles.
How about using the B of A building downtown San Jose on First and Santa Clara Street for Bart ?
Is that smart?
Herd the City is backing the location for the new downtown BART station to be the Bank of America Building.
Anonymous Blogger 35 are you a retard? OSH is far from a local store. It is owned by a small startup!!! Sears.
And F barnes and noble as well.
Loser
OSH was indeed a local chain up until about 20 or30 years ago. It’s currently owned by Sears but I read recently that they are looking to unload it.
The “S” in OSH stands for Sellout!
#7 The proximity to SJC should not be a problem for the success of high-rise condo development in the city. San Diego’s airport is even closer to their downtown than SJC’s is to our’s.