City Officials Incensed Over “Attention Grabbing Scheme”
San Jose is again knee-deep in controversy, this time not because of a lapse of judgment at the highest levels of municipal government, but because of city officials, who made the bold accusation that San Diego is trying to grab headlines from San Jose by “perpetrating ethics violations that look a lot like ours.”
San Diego has been awash in trouble since the late 90’s as is reflected in their bond rating, which hovers somewhere just north of Orange County’s in 1994, and is being bundled and sold off with Enron stock. In a little over a year, San Diego has seen the resignation of their auditor, city manager, deputy city manager, treasurer, human resources director and a mayor, as well as the indictment of an interim-mayor and councilman. Now the FBI, the U.S. Attorney and the SEC are investigating.
“Bush league stuff,” commented Mayor Gonzales.
The National League of Cities (NLC) took the bold and unprecedented step of censuring San Diego for their “transparent infringement on another city’s bad press by overreaching in their scandalous behavior with the strict and clear goal of national attention.” The NLC referenced the Time Magazine article which called then-San Diego Mayor Dick Murphy “one of the worst mayors in the U.S.”
Mayor Gonzales’s Budget and Policy director, Joe Guerra, said that the concern that San Diego could keep their negative momentum was a bit overblown. “So the pendulum has swung a bit their way recently,” said a reflective Guerra. “Believe me when I say we have a few things cookin’…we are in negotiations with Halliburton for some work in Coyote Valley.”
In related news, a recent poll commissioned by SanJoseInside.com shows that among registered voters, 85% say they prefer the “no-mayor” government of San Diego to San Jose’s Gonzales, and when asked to rank Gonzales among present mayoral candidates, he finished dead last, right behind the Pets.com sock puppet.
Gonzo has become the Nixon of San Jose. No matter what good he may have done, he will always be remembered as a lying, unethical public official who betrayed the public trust. The sooner he is gone the better.
Also we need a
Do not litter (the City) campaign.
It will be very helpful to ask our citizens to keep the trash off the streets.
If the city looks bad we look bad.
This is not a good “bad” but a bad “bad”.
So, don’t look bad “bad” … look cool! Keep the city clean.
Evaristo Guerrero II
Supporting Gonzales for future Governor
I take exception to the author’s insinuation that San Diego’s local government is somehow corrupt. I find it to be a well-greased, efficient system for getting big projects built with little interference from the uninformed “public”. These meddlers should find more do to with their lives then complain about money for schools, and firefighters and failing infrastructure. Potholes? Get a Hummer like me and you won’t notice them. People should just enjoy life a little more. The Padres are still in first place. Save up some money and go take in a game at the new ballpark. I find that very relaxing. I watch some of every home game on TV in my private skybox.
What seems to be missing is the fact that San Jose is not unique in its problems. Look at Sa Francisco, or even Santa Clara for that matter. At least in San Jose, some council man is not privately meeting with someone else dealing with auditinng to draw up lists of who can or canot serve on commissions. At least in Santa Clara, when the head of the freeze out party gets another one on his listed selected, the consolation prize to the loser is a free lawn mower.
Hi everyone!
This is I Evaristo Guerrero II.
Your future Governor after Gonzales
Greeting to all of my friends in California. This message is for every emigrant from Asia, Europe and Africa, to all of my friends that I know but mostly for Latinos who are the largest minority in USA.
I know that some of you don’t know me and some of you do know me.
Well, for those of you who know me, hi!
For those of you that don’t, hi! Anyway.
The reason that I am writing to you is because I need your support.
In a future, not far away, I will be running for Governor of California, (Califonia as Arnold says it) and your vote is very important to me. We are one of the largest minorities in California, and our vote is more powerful than ever. So, never underestimate the power of word of mouth recommendations. That is why I need one more favor from you. No! I am not asking you for money this time; I am richer than Arnold. I just want you to tell your friends and all of your relatives that Evaristo Guerrero II is the man of your choice.
Our currently politicians are too busy arguing about themselves that they forgot what make a city or a state. They forgot about You, the citizen.
Quien soy? (Who I am) Well, first of all
I have a Dream, a dream that I want to share with you.
Como decia Colocio en sus discursos! (This is what Colocio used to say on his speeches!).
Yo veo ….un mexicano con hambre! (I see … a hungry Mexican!)
Yo veo ….un mexicano con sed! (I see ….a thirsty Mexican!)
Yo veo un mexicano con hambre y sed de justicia.
(I see a Mexican hungry and thirsty of justice)
Latinos and new emigrants deserve better pay and better opportunities. We are the ones who put California together, and built it from the ground up. Our grandparents and our parents gave their lives in the fields, working from sunrise to sunset for very little pay. So, we deserve more because we are the ones that clean the streets, and put the food on everybody’s table. We are the ones that cook and prepare the food for every American, we are the ones that move cargo, and deliver goods to peoples’ homes, and we are the ones that bring the vegetables to the supermarkets, and the boxes to the warehouses. We are the ones who build houses and roads, we are the mechanics that repair cars, and computers and put lasers together, we are the ones who change the oil on millions of cars, and we are the ones that do so many things that nobody wants to hear. This is who we are, and more.
We deserve a little piece of the pie. Not all, just a piece, a decent one.
In California where the Latinos and other emigrant minorities are over 50% of the population, Arnold came to be the governor (not only that, the Terminator wants to get rid of us), so I don’t see why I can’t be the Governor of California, too.
Let me be your voice, to speck up for you
Let me be your arms, to move things around for you
Let me be your Governor to stop the discrimination once and for all.
Yo veo minorias libres (I see the freedom for minorities)
Yo veo un emigrante orguyoso de ser quien es (I see an emigrant proud
Of his roots)
Evaristo Guerrero II
For Governor
The first California-born governor, Romualdo Pacheco was born in 1831 in Santa Barbara – long before California was to become a state. Not a USA California governor yet!
It’s about time that the man pretending to be City Manager packs his bags along with the lying Mayor. The Mayor could not have pulled off this years long deception without the willingness of his yes-man manager and his lapdog Ms. Chavez. Between them they gift wrapped this package of public funds and bestowed them upon their labor pals. This would stink even if it didn’t involve garbage.
Maybe James and Evaristo could get together and talk. They would probably understand each other.
With the acknowledgement of Ron and Joe can we now move on. . .
The correct initial response from Ron and Joe should have been—we did it, we are glad we did it, it saved San Jose taxpayers money and if we get a chance we will do it again.
But by being too clever by half and by trying to stall, delay and obfuscate the obvious—they make their actions seem reprehensible.
For those who wish to tie Ms. Chavez and the rest of the Council to this debacle, this was a two-man show. The Mayor’s office does not seek nor accept counsel, even from those who wish them well.
Chavez and the rest of the City Council made the right decision, even if they were not told the truth about the deal.
Whether the number is $28 million or $50 million—saving the most money for San Jose ratepayers, even with a “flawed” process, makes sense.
The Council need not apologize for that decision.
Great –
Everyone talks now but more than half of the people taking shots probably voted for Ron Gonzalez and have kissed Joe Guerra’s butt more than once!
Don’t act all surprised, Ron & Joe represent all of you. If you don’t like that start taking you job as a voter more seriously!
Rich, your response is unbelievable. Your attempt to trivialize this as the end justify the means is the basic problem with government today. This has nothing to do with saving anybody any money. This was a gift of public funds! We, the taxpayers, will now be paying for this with continually higher rates. This “great deal” would never have occured if there were non-union businesses involved. Your attempt to distance Cindy from mess wouldn’t have anything to do with you being an “advisor” for her would it? To somehow excuse Cindy and the other Councilmembers who voted for this as making the right decision is spun with the expertise of a Vossbrink. How stupid do you think the people of SJ are (granted they were stupid enough to reelect RG when many of his misdeeds were known to those of us who have been watching closely.) Do you really think we will now elect Cindy for making the “right” decision? Is this just a preview of what we would have to look forward to in a Chavez administration? We can’t afford many more of her “right” decisions. Maybe you can fool the electorate but you can’t fool most of the people on this board.
Move on to what?
While this may have been a bad two man show, Ms. Chavez seemed a bit too eager to attack the grand jury report.
From the Jun. 15, 2005 Mercury News: Vice Mayor Cindy Chavez echoed Gonzales’ criticism of the report saying it read like a “British tabloid,’’ and had drawn unfair conclusions about her own testimony.
I do give Ms. Chavez credit for later supporting the investigation but I have lingering doubts about her ability to lead San Jose as mayor. I would have been more impressed if she were calling for the independent investigation on the 15th. Even Forrest Williams was asking for an investigation back then.
Rich makes two good points, let’s focus on the entire council, and let’s move on.
As usual, Rich also makes a critical comment and shows his courage when doing so by identifying himself.
Mr. Common Man
I bet you that you are sitting in front of your computer trying to change the world using your TV remote control.
Don worry, most people do.
I don’t see anybody doing anything to make history, except you.
Nice remote control Mr. Common man.
Evaristo Guerrero II
Let me be your voice.
Evaristo Guerrero II
Let me be your voice.
Anybody can e-mail me at
Ev**********@ne*****.com
The man of my choice
Mr. Rowen,
when did they let you out!?
Great article but once again San Jose has gone to number 1 with the revalations but Gonzo today. He is outta here. He should resign or be impeached.
“Chavez and the rest of the City Council made the right decision, even if they were not told the truth about the deal. “
Amazing bit of ethical juggling there, Rich. Who needs the truth when you are “right”?
Dear SJ Citizens:
I have a few questions:
1) How many more times does the mayor have to lie before the Mercury News Ed.Board calls for his resignation?
2) Didn’t the mayor just weeks ago say, “I have nothing to hide?”
3) Is Joe Guerra an elected official?
4) Does anyone out there know that the crystal cathedral (aka SJ’s new city hall) will take 35 years to pay off and costs over $960 million?!
pete campbell
I think we should thank Mr. Robinson for coming out and validating what is unarguably the state-of-the-art philosophy in government today: a misled public is a public that doesn’t get in the way. To satisfy union demands all Mayor Gonzales had to do was to conjure-up a little lie for the rate payers. He rationalized his behavior by convincing himself that it was the right thing to do. To satisfy his political supporters all Governor Davis had to do was turn the budget process into a shell game. He found his solace by basking in his approval rate at the polls, at least for awhile. To satisfy his paper-pushing commandos all GW had to do was sell a pack of lies about Iraq to an already frightened public. He comforts himself by being a practicing moron.
We think we are running this city, this state, this country, when in fact we are simply a deftly led herd. Count me in for a Moo of support, Mr. Robinson. I’m right on your hoof.
Still think Rich has some good points.
By the way, isn’t it ROSITA not Rosetta Avenue?
Ps, with the no name, don’t those new computers at CE have internet counters?
Ronny G should hire Evanisto as his defense….he rambled on and I forgot what we were even talking about here!
Whoever said that the Merc needs to call for his resignation is right, I say we would be better of with a “no mayor” govt like San Diego!
Doesn’t the fact that Gonzales and Guerra LIED matter? Of course they were acting in the “best interest” of the people but then why was it kept a big secret? If it really was so great you know that they would be yelling it from the rooftops on what a great thing they did. Instead it was on the hush hush.
I guess that people, elected officials, their advisors and constituents can justify anything even LYING! Just like all the democrats think that the democrats can’t do any wrong and likewise for the Repulicans. The lack of basic ethics here is astounding and that is something that in inherent – it can’t be taught in some employee ethics course!
Tom,
You have far too much time on your hands to focus in on “GuerraGate”.
Keep this up and I’ll rename the Convention Center! Or at a minimum, move the snake out in front.
RonG
Rich is correct that the Mayor does not accept counsel. Why would he? This Mayor thinks he is 100% correct all the time. Rich’s pathetic defense of the Mayor and his hack and the stooge councilmembers who voted for this “deal” is lightweight. There is NO excuse for an elected official to lie and deceive the public and their colleagues. It’s no surprise that some Councilmembers don’t understand the severity of what this lameduck has done (and this isn’t the first time.) The fact that a political consultant can justify this defiance of the public speaks volumes to the condition of politics today. Gonzo should just pack up and leave now—but that would require an act of character so we can’t expect that from this guy. Since he won’t leave, the Council should take action but that would require an act integrity, so we can’t expect much from them. The only thing left is for the public to speak out LOUDLY and demand action! Any chance of that?
!!!! JUST IN _ NEWS UPDATE !!!!
City Hall officials pinpoint the source of the leak that gave San Diego the edge in headline making. It appears that SJPD’s ex-chief of police, William Lansdowne, took with him the tools of blunderism that has long thought to be the patent protected intellectual property of San Jose City Hall.
Our confidential sources tell us that Landsdowne spent the last 18 months in a suburban neighborhood assimilating to the San Diego culture, blending in with the masses. “Bill is such a great neighbor. I never would has thought he was a San Jose City Hall rouge agent – for God’s sake, he dog sits for us!’ exclaimed neighbor Ima Naive.
News of the leak’s source have shocked and awed city hall insiders. Mayor Gonzales exclaimed in anguish, “He told me it was a career move. He said he had to leave since he was maxed out on his entitlement package – uh, I mean retirement benefit. I should have listened to Gray when he told me to sneak in that public safety 95% pension.” Don Demers, president of the San Jose Police Officers Association, commented, “Bill was a fine chief. although I know he’s capable of these rogue actions, I don’t beleive he did it. As far as the retirement benefits, I can’t comment at this time due to ongoing negotiations with the city.”
City Attorney Rick Doyle today filed a lawsuit in Federal Court alledging patent infringement and theft of trade secrets by Landsdowne. When asked about today’s filing Doyle replied, “The city does not comment on pending litigation – – but no, there is no truth to the rumors that Lansdowne moonlights at NorCal Waste’s San Diego office!”
If there is ever going to be a chance for the roller skating bill chew; now is it!
At least he won’t need a car and gas card!
RR
Thankyou my favorite lobbyist! you now can move to the front of the line. Don’t worry about putting the money in the special box this time!
I guess we can’t move on. . .
But let me answer some of the questions raised by my critics—and thanks Jim for your support.
1) Lying to the public does matter. My point was that Ron and Joe did not have to lie. And while the lie is indefensible, nobody died over it—which is more than one can say for our federal officials. Where is the outrage?
If you are outraged by the “lie” of Gonzales, one should be consistent and call for the impeachment or resignation of GWB—for his lies did kill people—lots of them.
2) I am not defending Ron and Joe—evidenced by my statement above.
3) To complete the analogy, the Senate voted to go to war in Iraq based on intelligence from the Administration, their vote to authorize the use of military power was not wrong. However, now that they know the truth and the disaster it has caused it is important for them to speak out against the lie and reverse the policy.
The Council voted for NorCal based on the information given them. Like the Senate, they were lied to, however—unlike the Senate the policy is still advantagious to San Jose residents. They should speak out against the lie, but the policy should not be reversed.
For those who believe this was a gift of public funds, how happy would you be if a garbage strike had occurred and, for the sake of priniciple, your neighborhood started to stink.
How happy would you have been to select the second bidder and how high would your rates have gone if you had to pay $28 million more for garbage pick-up? The public process should be transparent, but good business sense says you make the best deal possible for the city.
4) To finfan—if Davis turned the budget into a shell game, how do you explain Arnold? He did the same thing, only he was able to convince Reeps to go along for a 2/3s majority to pass the budget. The chickens are coming home to roost as the Terminator’s numbers plummet.
Finally, I’d like to say something about lying that, though unpopular, is at least truthful.
Everybody lies. Some lies are “good” or “white” lies. When you say something nice about a person, whom you really don’t like, because you are being polite is a “nice” lie.
In the public arena at the extreme, if the Nazis come to your door and ask if you know where Anne Frank and her family are hiding and you lie, that is a tremendously positive lie.
Most people lie because they believe they have done something wrong and want to hide it from somebody else. Many in our society consider all lies equal or claim they do. If the Mayor lies he should resign, Clinton lies to his wife he should be impeached, Bush lies to the World—who cares?j
While I do not defend the actions of the first two, their lies do not rise to the level of moral outrage as the third—yet this board would have Gonzales and Guerra run out on a rail—while some wave the flag at GWB.
If we voters are ever to have integrity in our government, we have to become more sophisticated in how we morally judge our politicians. No person, in or out of public life is perfect.
When your lies and mistakes end up on the front page of the Mercury News, the voter needs to be have less than a knee-jerk reaction to “throw the bums out”.
The Mayor certainly owes the public an explanation and, possibly, an apology. But do we really want him out of office? The disruption is too great for the crime.
That doesn’t mean the voters should forget, it just means they need to be more circumspect in their future judgement.
Finally, I am a big believer in allowing most truth to prevail—even when it is not positive. It is a lesson all of us were taught as children, and our leaders should exhibit the trait more than others.
But once in a while, one must forgive a lie, especially when the motive is pure.
To that end, I want to compliment everyone on this board for their cogent, well-written, and thoughtful posts (a healthy sense of humor is also important—as John reminds us every week>)
As far back as I can remember, lying has never been necessary, acceptable or condoned by the San Jose City Council.
To say the ends justify the means is flat wrong.
Richard Robinson posts:
1) Lying to the public does matter. My point was that Ron and Joe did not have to lie. And while the lie is indefensible, nobody died over it—which is more than one can say for our federal officials. Where is the outrage?
—Reply: What is most troubling about the NorCal affair has nothing to do with the dollars and cents of the garbage contract and everything to do with the prevailing modus operandi of government. The mayor lied about the contract because that is the way he believes a mayor should operate. Secret deals, tit-for-tat arrangements, and duplicitous information management are the norm. The mayor’s anaphylactic response to the Grand Jury’s allegations provided us all with an intimate look at how his system responds when administered a healthy dose of the truth. It was a truly pathological performance.
Rule-breaking and lying are endemic in city government, typically rationalized as being expedient, moral, or in the public’s interest. Many of the city employees outraged by the Norcal contract have broken some rules that, though seemingly insignificant, have compromised themselves (and even entire departments) and done much to create an atmosphere hospitable to political animals of the worst stripe.
—end of reply.
2) I am not defending Ron and Joe—evidenced by my statement above.
—Reply: You seem to believe that we should feel comfort that there was no real dollar cost to the mayor’s little subterfuge, and I understand your point, but there is more here than the motives initially involved. Using the power and prestige of his office, the mayor, without a moment’s hesitation, impugned the integrity of that group of good citizens sitting as the Grand Jury, simply for the high crime of doing their duty. Do we need any more evidence of the mayor’s disrespect for the people and institutions of our government? In Ron Gonzales’ realm, truth and duty carry no currency. Would you like to serve him?
—end of reply.
3) To complete the analogy, the Senate voted to go to war in Iraq based on intelligence from the Administration, their vote to authorize the use of military power was not wrong. However, now that they know the truth and the disaster it has caused it is important for them to speak out against the lie and reverse the policy.
The Council voted for NorCal based on the information given them. Like the Senate, they were lied to, however—unlike the Senate the policy is still advantagious to San Jose residents. They should speak out against the lie, but the policy should not be reversed.
—Reply: Had the Senate been composed of working stiffs with little time to study the issues, then they might be deserving of the generous consideration you give them. But they had the time and assets to study the issue at length and, as anyone who doesn’t rely on the American press can attest, the president’s case for war was pathetic. Even if you discount the Blix reports, Saddam had demonstrated that he couldn’t even defend his air space. As for the scare tactics—hot air balloon bombs floating onto our shores—absurd and not even original. The Japanese tried it in WWII and for their efforts they killed only a few school kids (http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/mshwfugo.htm).
The invasion of Iraq could have been justified beyond question had Bush simply been able to prove that Saddam threatened America half as much as does Congress.
—end of reply.
4) To finfan—if Davis turned the budget into a shell game, how do you explain Arnold? He did the same thing, only he was able to convince Reeps to go along for a 2/3s majority to pass the budget. The chickens are coming home to roost as the Terminator’s numbers plummet.
—Reply: Your reaction to my criticism of Davis is to align me with Arnold. This marks you as something I am not, a person with a two-party mentality. I realized a long time ago not to put my foot in that snare—that Democrat/Republican, Liberal/Conservative nonsense that serves only those who package news or buy politicians for a living.
To derive any satisfaction from a downward trend in the “Terminator’s numbers” is to regale in a failure for which we will all suffer. No thank you. I get my satisfaction from seeing the Constitution honored, from knowing that the best interests of the people are being served, from living in a country where self-reliance and limited government provide true freedom.
So you can see why I’m “Frustrated.”
—end of reply.
Iraq, Bush, Senate, Clinton, Arnold, Nazis…
Lots of important issues but lets keep the focus on what we should do here in San Jose with our own big lie.
According to the document described by Ms. Chavez as reading like a British tabloid, the grand jury addressed the likelihood of a strike:
Page 13: There was little likelihood of a strike due to the nonpayment of Teamsters wages…Further, if Norcal or CWS went on strike or walked off the job, the DES (Director of Environmental Services) had previously assured the Council, during the RFP process, that another vendor was fully capable of taking over the entire operation within 24 hours.
Standing on principle would have been the thing to do since there was little risk of a major garbage disruption. A deal is a deal. Norcal should have not bid the amount they did if they could not afford to pay their workers.
Ron is a lame duck and will ride out his term accomplishing little. I am more concerned about who will be our next mayor, especially Ms. Chavez who seemed way too eager to discredit the grand jury report when it was released.
Boy whenever Rich doth protest too much you can be sure that the rats are close by.
How about some disclosure Rich?
Is our beloved Mayor one of your clients now? How about big Labor?
It’s pretty obvious the stuff you put up here is nothing more than pathetic attempts at disinformation and spin on behalf of your clients.
I guess that those guys at Enron shouldn’t have been punished either, I mean no one died or anything, right Rich? How blurred is the line between right and wrong, truth or a lie? Apparently is is pretty fuzzy in this town…Keep digging that hole deeper, Rich.
Novice: First, I always try to give full disclosure regarding my clients when posting.
Currently, I do not get paid from the Mayor, Cindy Chavez, or Labor. Though, I am proudly pro-labor, have given Cindy advice on occassion and have both critisized and praised the Mayor (I don’t think he remembers much of the praise).
In addition, my opinions are my own and should not be confused with my clients—as many would disagree with me.
Steve: Notwithstanding the GJ report, anyone who thinks the Teamsters would not strike if their wages aren’t paid in full—doesn’t have any experience with Teamsters.
SJ Downtowner: Enron? Get a grip. People lost money because of Enron. The San Jose deal saved taxpayer money.
Frustrated: Feeling you pain, but I disagree.
Money is an issue. It is difficulut to negotiate good deals under a public microscope. The public always gets screwed when all the elements of a deal are made public. Some private discussions must take place. We are killing ourselves because we so totally distrust our public officials to make deals for us. They, in turn, never fail to let us down when they get caught misleading the public.
It is a vicious cycle that needs to end.
I’ll skip Iraq for now.
There is no “satisfaction” in Arnold’s failure. Like many, I was rooting for him to succeed.
He had an opportunity not to engage in partisan politics—but he took the advice of the Wilson crowd and he’s in deep weeds.
As for that Constitutional rhetoric, I beg to differ. The Constitution, because of the lack of checks and balance, is simply being ignored by this Administration. We currently live in a dictatorship that routinely violates international law, principles of human rights and our own stated values as a nation.
The best interests of the people are not being served, you are not free (see patriot act) and all the flag waving in the world will not make it so.
We don’t have limited government. The Bushies have the largest growth in government in our history with the war on drugs, crime and terrorism—and they refuse to pay for it.
Only thing worse than tax and spend is spend and spend.
What’s the matter with you, are you from Kansas? No wonder you are frustrated.
Mr. Robinson,
After reading your response to my post I better understand why it was so easy for you to list people who are not your clients. I wouldn’t hire you either. Your ability to misconstrue meaning is mind-boggling.
I posted (#29) the following:
[ I get my satisfaction from seeing the Constitution honored, from knowing that the best interests of the people are being served, from living in a country where self-reliance and limited government provide true freedom.
So you can see why I’m “Frustrated.” ]
The keyword in the above is “frustrated,” as in the Constitution is not being honored, the best interests of the people are not being served, and that this country has lost its respect for self-reliance and limited government.
Also, though I’m not from Kansas I continue to be amazed at how those who consider themselves Blue State intellectuals find it so easy to generalize about people from the midwest (or south). Do you, Mr. Robinson, believe that learning that someone is from Kansas tells you ANYTHING about him or her as an individual? If so, I would be interested to learn what you think it means when someone is from Oakland, or East LA, or The Castro. Let’s see if you have the nerve to risk making your snide insinuations about people from those areas.
Dear frustrated,
Sorry for the misinterpretation of you missive. I too am frustrated with our current government.
The “What’s the matter with you” comment was a take-off on the book “What’s the matter with Kansas”—which I highly recommend.
Am I prejudiced? Yes, I do not think highly of nazis, right-wing nuts, or conservative radio talk show hosts. I have a healthy dislike for a number of people in red states who have gun racks, fly confederate flags, wear bedsheets and burn crosses. But then again, I don’t like ‘em if they live in blue states either.
Grip? You mean like the stranglehold that Gonzales has held over this city’s prosperity? Maybe you can’t quantify the amount of money that Gonzo has cost in the city and the businesses that continue to try to operate and develop here despite the horrible environment. You compared Gonzo and garbage to Bush and Iraq – I think you are the one that needs to get a grip!
The big irony here is that the blue states are #1 on the target list – yet the blue state inhabitants are the very same morons complaining about the lack of fresh pita bread served at club Gitmo.
Dictatorship? You bet. Soviet style gulags? Absolutely.
Rich, thought you might find these interesting. Funny that they didn’t get much play in the press though.
You just can’t beat glass after glass of blue kool-aid – ‘specially when it’s hot outside!
UN Says Iraq Weapons Material ‘Missing’
A report to the Security Council lists 4,700 items that could be used in the production of chemical weapons, 300 that could be used for making biological weapons and 3,000 missile-related items.
http://www.politinfo.com/articles/article_2005_06_03_1954.html
Missing Iraqi nuke equipment worries IAEA
“In the wrong hands, it could be turned to use in a nuclear weapons program,” he said. “Until we establish that this material is in responsible hands, we have to treat it as a serious proliferation concern.”
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/12/iraq.nuclear/index.html
Nope – no WMD’s here.
Richard:
Who pays you to post here? Or, do you just have a lot of time on your hands?
Now wait a minute – you accused Bush of lying – now you’re saying that, well … well, look at the Soviet Union or … or, well look at the US Atomic Agency.
Like having a discussion with a 5 year old.
Bottom line – with all the (UN documented) dual-use gear Saddam had, he’d have reconstituted his WMD programs as soon as the inspectors were out.
Oil for Food was nothing but a gambit to rot away support for UN Sanctions and hasten the day the inspectors would have been pulled from Iraq.
If our “news” media had expended 1 per cent of the energy devoted to Abu Gharib, we would know more about:
• Documents showing Saddam funded Palestinian terrorist group
• Saddam paying 25,000 dollars to mothers of Palestinian suicide bombers
• Syrian business front funded terrorists through UN oil-for-food programme
• Taped conversations from 1991 saying Saddam wanted to deploy biological warfare on “the Israeli cities – all of them”.
http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1199662004
But alas – such facts don’t square with our “journalists” world views – so we rarely hear anything but a Abu Gharib/Gitmo drumbeat from our mainstream “news” outlets.
It’s ok – Saddam was just killing 10’s of thousands of his own people and funding the killing of Israeli’s. Not big deal.
Nope – I think it’s safe to say that Saddam was definitely not a threat and absolutely had no connections whatsoever to terrorists.
You’re a walking cartoon caricature Rich.
You seem to be a smart guy – but when it comes to politics just the slightest poke and you come unhinged.
My guess is that you’re getting the really good blue kool-aid, probably imported from the continent.
PS. I think Joe Trippi is da bomb!
Richard Robinson is at worst a treasonist and at best an ill-informed idiot.
To call the president of the United States a war criminal is evidence that he is not a rational person.
To say that there is no checks and balances in our government shows that he is simply uneducated. Even elementary school students know that the checks and balances of the US government is handled by the three branches of our government: executive, legislative, and judicial.
As far as the republican’s ruling this country, perhaps it is because the people of our country were sick of the poor way that our democrat president, Clinton, ran this country. Remember, George W. Bush received more popular votes than any other president in the history of the United States.
The problem with people like Richard is that they are soooo far left that they can’t see reason. Anything that doesn’t represent their viewpoint is wrong. All I can say is his online ranting will be a boon to future moderate and republican candidates. Any liberal candidate he supports, or consults to, will be branded with his crazed viewpoints – any that will surely lead to their defeat!
PS Richard: grow up… your party lost in 2004, get over it. Don’t be a sore looser – just be a looser.
Thanks Novice,
My doctor recommends I vent every so often simply to avoid high blood pressure and ulcers.
Give my best to Joe T.
As for anti-Richard, denial is not a river in Egypt. Seek help.
Anti-Richard-
What’s a looser?
So far Richard Robinson has made intelligent, articulate, cogent posts. I have yet to see a critic post anything factual. Rather, they resort to ad hominem remarks, or opinion. While opinions are nice it helps if the opinion has some basis in reality, not fantasy.
Novice,
Bush is a liar and your cited articles only verify that fact. There are no WMDs in Iraq.
The Powell presentation at the U.N. was a farce and destroyed our nation’s credibility.
Was Sadaam a bad guy? Yes. But does that justify the U.S. commiting atrocities, violating international law and engaging in an illegal war?
There may have been plenty of reasons to go to war against Sadaam—we didn’t use those—we simply lied to the world. The majority of whom believe, with some justification, that we are only after Iraqi oil.
This President is a war criminal. Just because he has not been forced into hiding and is protected by the greatest military machine in the history of the world does not mean his crimes have gone unnoticed by the rest of humanity.
As for killing your own countrymen. Does the over 2000 service men and women who went to war based on our President’s lie count? How about the over 100,000 Iraqi civilians? Even Sadaam didn’t kill that many.
I guess we can justify the concentration camps in Cuba and the systematic torture of prisoners in Abu Gharib and Gitmo—regardless of any U.S. or World Court decision. We are Americans, doesn’t the world just get that we are right?
Are we to go into Iran next? They sponsor terrorism far greater than Iraq ever did. Why did we stop the pursuit of Osama at the Afghanistan border? Could it be we don’t want to destabilize Pakistan, which has nuclear weapons?
Oh, let’s throw in the other evil axis, North Korea—all the saber rattling in the world hasn’t got them to remove their nuclear weapons.
So let’s recap. Bush is a liar and an unindicted war criminal. The world is less safe than when he took office.
Osama moved into Pakistan where he lives with impunity. North Korea and Iran have accelerated their nuclear program.
The U.S. is mired in Iraq, (we broke it, we are responsible to fix it—the pottery barn rule).
The U.S. has a defacto dictatorship with no checks or balance on the current Administration as all government is in the hands of a single party. There is no institutional check of this Administration as “the republican party” has become the dominant ruling body in our country.
International norms are dismissed, we refuse to submit to the same international justice we insist our enemies obey.
But Sadaam is a bad guy, the end justifies the means and it’s the media’s fault we haven’t bought the Bush propaganda?
FOX News is just not doing its job.
Even a 5 year-old understands lying will get you in trouble, criminals should go to jail, and the mass killing of innocent people is wrong.
End of story.
Gus,
No I don’t get paid, but I’m open. . . It doesn’t take as long as you think—obviously not long at all.
Novice,
If you are worried about missing nukes, read about the former Soviet Union or the U.S. Atomic Agency—both of whom can’t account for more material than Iraq ever had or could ever hope to procure.
But, of course, all the terrorists live in Bagdad or London. No worries here.
Bud wize EERRRRRR
ad hominem bellermine drinker
Novice,
You may be beyond help—but we will try anyway.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050728/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_suffocation_case
Just one of many—
You may choose to follow the partyline, but you are standing on the wrong side of history.
You may try to feel better about yourself by delusionally believing our government is not capable of such atrocities, but you would be wrong again.
Just to recap Bud – are these the cogent facts that you were referring to?
– “The U.S. has a defacto dictatorship”
– “U.S. commiting atrocities, violating international law and engaging in an illegal war”
– “we can justify the concentration camps in Cuba and the systematic torture of prisoners in Abu Gharib and Gitmo”
– “Bush is a liar and an unindicted war criminal”
If so, how can you concur with such rantings?
Was it the drugs in the 60’s?
Was it part of some super secret ACLU mindcontrol project?
It’s quite apparent that the left is so completely consumed with power at any cost and are now so utterly, totally traumatized about losing power (media, gov’t, judiciary) that are losing touch with reality too.
Truly amazing (and scary) to think that there are otherwise sane people walking around with “Rich’s talking points” kind of soundtrack in their head.
Oh c’mon Rich.
The entire news media has the whole Iraq war under a microscope, they want another Abu Gharib so bad they’re beside themselves.
The Pentagon and the Military understand this and don’t even try to cover anything up. In fact I have more faith in the credibility of the Pentagon than our own media.
Quran’s being flushed down toilets?
Faked Air National Guard memos?
Let’s talk about our news media’s atrocities.
Let’s talk about the total 1 sided coverage of Iraq.
The very fact that that the atrocity you mention is being reported and that a trial will commence gives me even more faith that the US is trying to do the right thing.
You mentioned history.
In 20 years GWB will be revered as a great President. Revered for taking a tough stand in Iraq, seeing it through, and laying the foundation for peace and freedom in the middle east.
Revered just as Reagan was for hastening the demise of the Soviet Union and bringing freedom to eastern Europe.
I think that’s what has the blue people all atwitter – deep down they know that Bush – the man they hate with every fiber, every molecule of their being – is on the right course.
It’s your worst nightmare Rich, and you know it’ll come to pass.
If we’re still on this board in 20 years – I’ll remind you.
Intelligence and GWB is an oxymoron.
As Cheney was demanding only the “right” intelligence from CIA, your argument is specious at best.
The entire administration is corrupt. It is time the self-rightious reeps put their own house in order.
And don’t give us that—you are not loyal to the troops crap. We want to save their lives, not waste them. We don’t cut their VA benefits when they come back. And we don’t dishonor them by saying “bring it on” from the most protected spot on the face of the earth. Finally, their commander and chief is a coward—and everybody knows it.
Honorable National Guard duty my ass. Fake document or not—the substance was truthful. George Jr. is a liar, war criminal and a coward.
As one person recently pointed out, when you are in a hole—stop digging.
Novice –
Too much KoolAid is bad for you. It’s dangerous when you get your news from only one biased source. Your rantings do not serve your cause well. This is not a partisan issue. Lying is lying—it’s bad which ever side does it. The President lied to the American people and many have died because of his lies. If you want to justify those deaths and want to believe that lying is OK, then there’s not much any of us can say that will change your mind. Too bad for you and the country.
“Fake but accurate” – the rallying cry for our ‘news’ media.
Better watch that blood pressure Rich.
Halliburton!! Halliburton!! Halliburton!!!
Boy is there like a form letter that the blue people all pass amongst themselves?
The lie we’re talking about is that Bush said there were WMDs?
If so GWB was told it was a “slam dunk” that Saddam had WMDs by whom? I’m pretty sure that ‘whom’ was George Tenet wasn’t it?
I’m pretty sure GWB didn’t do any in-country intelligence gathering on his own prior to the war.
I’m also pretty sure I read where every western intelligence agency reached the same conclusion.
And if I had a nickel for every time I heard Madeline Albright and company say weapons of mass destruction I’d be posting this missive from Tahiti.
And one more thing…
It’s easy to sit here in the bay area in our comfy chairs and pass judgements on our guys who are over there fighting absolutely pure evil.
If our guys can extract information from these murderers that will save the lives of our troops and innocent Iraqi’s then so be it.
It would be a truly sad day when our military is required to conduct a war to ‘standards’ that satisfy the ACLU.
Novice’s rallying cry seems to be, “Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.”