So Fly was browsing YouTube.com, looking for more videos of Keyboard Cat, when up popped an interesting little video posted by the San Jose Police Officers Association. On it, Raj Jayadev, founder of Silicon Valley De-Bug (and a regular SJI contributor), is seen addressing a San Jose City Council meeting, talking about the distrust brewing between some city residents and the police department. While he is talking, words appear on the screen next to him to accentuate/mock what he is saying. At one point, after the young activist says “There has not been a street response to all the news about racial profiling and the alarming arrest rates in San Jose,” the screen goes black, and these words appear: “Is that a threat?” Apparently that’s meant to be a show-stopper, but Fly could detect no malice in his voice whatsoever (although, at 44 seconds in, he does seem to have that anti-establishment spark in his eye, and he is shaved bald, which might be scary to the POA). Tacked onto the end of the video Pete Constant is shown saying that “at least 999,000 residents” (out of the city’s population of 1,006,892) “love” the police department. Really? Love? That’s is a pretty strong word to associate with civil servants.
Jayadev addressed the issue during the Tuesday City Council meeting, charging that the video challenges the principle of free speech at City Hall: “People speak out at City Council meetings because they think they’re going to be heard, the messages are going to be received.” Constant, a former policeman, dismisses Jayadev’s arguments as representing a tiny but disproportionately vocal sector of the community: “All too often when you see activism, it’s the local voice of a small minority of people, and I think that’s what the POA is really trying to show.”
Some years back, Jesse Jackson came to our fair City and publicly lambasted one of our very successful CEOs, T.J. Rodgers of Cypress Corp.
It’s been said that, following Jackson’s departure, T.J. likened him to a seagull – “he flies in, sh*ts all over everything and then flies away.”
Raj, you’ve been busted; few think you’re anything but a pain in the arse.
Raj wants to “conversate”? What is conversating?
So, Fly, it’s OK for you to have free speech rights, but it ain’t OK for the POA to have the same right, the right to spin things as they want them to spin. You guys are the kings of spin in S-Jay. You seem to believe in the right to free speech only as long as the speech echoes your point of view.
Oh, and wasn’t Raj one of the guys who pulled a “LeBron” and walked out on the task force?
One good thing about the YouTube clip—now I know what Raj looks like.
Come on please. Just browsing Youtube.com.
This was on the news and I even posted that he was on cbs5. (See posting #34 on Raj’s last article) You know you’re friends with Raj and he told you all about it.
So Raj is upset because the POA publicly disagrees with him, and he frames his angst as a free speech issue.
I guess in RajWorld free speech is a one-way street! (I get to speak, you get to listen.)
Raj has chosen to put himself into the political spotlight with his constant criticism of the police. As such he is also fair game for criticism.
Yet when the police respond in kind, look who get into a big snit, goes down to City Hall and claims that the POA’s exercise of free speech is somehow a violation of free speech. That’s some interesting intellectual juggling, Raj.
A couple of other quick points:
While Constant is obviously exaggerating when he says 999,000 residents support the police it’s fair to say the overwhelming majority of San Joseans support the police and don’t want a bunch of drunks ruining our downtown.
The POA video is kind of juvenile. Raj would be better off just ignoring it. Instead he’s made it into an issue. Now people who never knew about the video will be clicking on it. How smart is that?
If Raj should choose to respond, rare but it happens, my question is: Raj, are your free speech rights superior to those of police officers?
While Raj may think the POA is wrong to single him out and is getting too personal, he posts a video rebuttal that is full of really cheap shots, including slams at Constant and Kalra.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Cp-ILLDWQ
What gives, Raj?
Right or wrong the SJPOA is sticking up for its officers. I think they are doing the right thing. The city administrators and city council has made the officers scapegoats trying to pacify these vocal splinter groups, all with an axe to grind. Allegations against the police are published as the absolute truth in the media with no rebuttal showing the officers side. The media has no accountability and has ceased to present objective news articles. Almost all rip on the police officers. I am glad the SJPOA is taking a proactive stance in sticking up for its officers. It is amazing the outcry by these “activist” groups when the SJPOA used one of their own tactics against them. I am only sorry that Raj is getting publicity as he has done nothing in his life to actual deserve this attention.
I think Raj has some good points but his arrogance wrapped in smugness covered with superiority really muddles the message. I strongly suggest De-Bug get a better leader. I’ve always been impressed with Skylar. Please make a change.
Raj is one of those guys that wants to make a career of being in the public eye. What does this guy do for an actual paycheck?
His smugness, and attitude reek right through the video, and in the back of his mind he knows it’s a show.
This is the type of guy that is going to get in peoples faces time and time again and then when someone shoves him down he will scream “Racist!”, and then sue the city.. maybe that’s the master plan?
So “conversate” is a melding of “converse” and “communicate”? In what language—ebonics?
Raj in his juvenile response asserts that he speaks for “the public”. What public? All three hundred of his “followers”? Sorry, Raj, but if you took a poll, firstly, most of “the public” has never heard of you. And if they were told what your shtick is, “the public” would tell you to sit down, shut up, and eat your broccoli.
And the criticism of Ash Kalra’s first name. Beneath petty. That’s the spoiled brat who pulled the LeBron on the task force.
I saw the video and they are attacking Raj personally. Over this past year I have talked and have gotten to know Raj and he is not the monster that the POA is conjuring him up to be. He is genuine and he sticks to his guns. And I highly respect him for stepping up to the “real” monsters that I have seen on these streets. As a “downtowner” I had to watch a 5’0 girl get tased for “talking back” to an officer. She did not put this officer in any danger what so ever. He just needed to assert his power and show her who was boss. That is not a cop to me. I have met some really cool cops. Im not against public safety, but some of these a’holes think they own you. And I for one am tired of seeing it.
The angle that the POA took was childish and borderline stupid. Did their strategic think tank consist of Kindergardeners or what??? At least the videos that these activists post have some sort of substance in them. You cannot lie to a video camera nor can you fabricate what is seen in these videos. Its the pure footage of injustice. And what I believe to be a hatred for certain minorities. Its been going on for years and now with technological advances we are able to capture things that would’ve usually gone unseen. The cops cant cover it up like they use to be able to.
Its time for the POA to realize that there is a huge problem with police brutality in this city. And people are not just gonna stand around and take it anymore. No one should die at the hand’s of a police officer unless they are truly putting them in harm’s way. And Im tired of hearing the false justification’s as to why innocent people die. It’s a serious issue that should be dealt with in a diplomatic manner. It must be conducted in a non violent and non threatening manner. As an artist my self I am speaking on it. I want to expose as much as I can to as many people as possible. That’s what we “activists” do.
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
For me, posting sophomoric youtube videos at each other is a lot like commenting on forums like SJI. Both are pretty healthy ways of exercising free speech and exploring ideas.
My concern here is with the power that the two people/groups bring to the contest:
1) a police accountability activist who is exec. director of a nonprofit that teaches media literacy and who is suggesting police need to be kept in tighter check
2) a police union with 1400 armed members that is seeking to defend the value of the “SJPD” brand and image by threatening a police accountability activist
Having the SJPOA singling out an activist for ridicule and threat is cowardly for two reasons:
1) Raj is speaking as part of a broad movement for police accountability and government transparency, and while he may be the first “articulate” young man of color that some police or politicians have come across who they could not threaten into submission, he is vulnerable to the arbitrary arrest and abuse that he speaks out against.
2) when done via an organizational website, the individual who is doing the posting and editing of the video is anonymous and appears to speak for the entire POA, and there is no way that every single one of the 1400+ cops in the SJPD would agree with threatening someone for trying to hold them to the oaths they have sworn to uphold justice and equality before the law.
Also, if the SJPOA makes a habit of identifying their political oponents and claiming that there is a “threat” to the POA, then some deranged wingnut in or outside the SJPD might “defending the SJPOA” against that “threat”. This would be disturbingly similar to the behavior of the anti-abortion fanatics who host websites like Operation Rescue and the others that provide “Wanted” lists of doctors who perform abortions and then put an X through the pictures as the doctors are killed as George Tiller was last Sunday.
SJPD officers are held to a higher standard of responsibility for their actions, including speech, than the rest of us because they are sworn officers of the law and have the power of life and death over our community. Do not let political activism become part of the “collateral damage” of SJPD or SJPOA efforts to shut up their critics.
1.) Where is proof that the SJPOA paid for and put this video up? Has the Metro asked the POA if they did it, or did they just assume they did?
2.) Raj, by mere virtue of his actions brought this on himself. You can’t be a bully and expect your victim to keep taking it.
I don’t think that a video pointing out Raj’s speech shortcomings is the right way to strike back, IF the POA did do this. Pointing out Raj’s threats to Council Members, his inconsistencies and exaggerated comments in articles, and the fear citizens have of speaking up for the Police in Council Meetings, when he and DeBugged members are in the Council Meetings yelling and making false accusations, is the way you deal with someone like Raj. Personal attacks are childish, and so was Raj’s response video.
What I find truly sad about this whole thing is:
1.) News medias are not addressing what brought this on in the first place. Raj has been bringing this on himself. In reporting this video incident, the media is leaving out threats that Raj and his cohorts made in Council Meetings.
2.) On KGO today, they played only a PORTION of the video. (They left out the veiled threat Raj made in his statement.) How is that giving all the information to the public so that they can make an informed decision? Titles like the one on this very article on SJI is a case in point.
3.) Raj claims that he fears for his and DeBugged members safety? What? Where in the video is there any threat made on him or De Bugged?
4.) The Council is partly to blame because they have sat passively by while Raj and his merry followers have attacked the Police at every turn.
5.) Raj claims that he now feels his First Amendment Rights, and his freedom of expression in Council Meetings are now threatened? Not once did it occur to him that his behavior and the behaviors of his cronies are intimidating to other members in the audience.
Oh that’s right, victim’s rights aren’t important.
At least we can conversate over this matter, whatever that means.
I’ve often wondered just what the hell Raj does for a living. Writing drivel here on SJI doesn’t pay the bills.
Downtownster noted that Raj is the Executive Director of a non-profit organization; I can only assume that it is the De-Bug referenced many times here on SJI.
So, Raj justifies his De-Bug salary by stirring up the sh*t. Gosh, I guess we have our own local version of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, both of whom are now irrelevant. As the old saw goes, “Love me or hate me but don’t ignore me.”
Moving past these silly videos, where is Raj’s response to chief Davis’ article in the Mercury News explaining why releasing the 911 tapes now would be harmful to the investigation of the Pham shooting?
I am a very strong police supporter and I do believe in police accountability.
I have also read alot of police reports from high profile cases while working in SJPD records that the average person has no idea about.
I have read the truth first hand and have heard the lies of these so called police watch groups. They have no credibility what so ever. They go around following the police trying to instigate trouble for them in hopes of catching them do something wrong.
I would have more respect for Raj and what he was doing if he was more honest and less deceitful.
Eliza in San Jose,
What makes you think Raj didn’t? And what makes you think the POA posted the video about Raj? Raj jumped to that conclusion without any proof that they did, and he made a real fool out of himself at yesterday’s Council Meeting by demanding an apology from the POA. Freedom of speech is not a one-way street.
“SJPOA needs to be at a higher level of standard because they are leadership in the community.”
Raj is seen as a community leader by some and should be held to a just as high a standard as the POA if not higher. If he wants respect he needs to give it.
“If folks really wanted a better San Jose, they’d listen to the message Raj and the families who organized the rally that day—.”
When did Raj become the new messenger for God and the helpless? You seem intelligent enough to think for yourself. You don’t need an orator like Raj to do your talking for you. Be your own voice.
I think this is much ado about nothing. The less attention Raj gets from now on the more we can concentrate on what really matters.
Christian,
Bobby Lopez said so himself that they paid a PR firm to put up the video.
In terms of Raj putting up the video “Response”, that was an honest question that deserves an answer from #5. Go ask #5 where he got the info that Raj put up the video.
Raj didn’t make this about him. The SJPOA did.
Eliza
Okay,
You say, “This business of attacking messengers in San Jose has got to stop.” That statement to me says, we are right, you are wrong, so keep your mouth shut if you disagree with us. And that Okay is exactly the problem here. This unrealistic view that you guys have that only you get t o walk around the world unchallenged is rather disturbing because, that is exactly why zero progress is ever made on these issues. My way or the highway might work in a dictatorship but it does not work here.
I think Raj has a right to say whatever he wants to, but so do I, and so does everyone else on this blog. Challenging Raj on his comments does not equate to hating him, or wishing him ill will. It is simply the right of freedom of expression, and is healthy. No one should blindly follow anyone, or else you’ll have another Jim Jones, or Hitler to contend with and I don’t think anyone wants a repeat of that.
Rather than following Raj, spend your time walking and speaking your own truth. Create your own path and follow your own dreams. That is the beauty of freedom, and maturity.
One of the biggest flaws that Raj has is that he makes everything about him, and not about the people or issues he professes to care about. If he were a true leader, he would not be focused on this video, nor would he have run to the press or the Council demanding justice the way he did. He also would not have responded with his own video. He would have called the POA himself, and asked them if they put up the video. By doing so, he would have given them the respect he demands of others, and in the process, earned that respect for himself.
All great community leaders who are remembered for their accomplishments understood the true meaning of collaboration, something that Raj has yet to learn. That means if you have a problem with someone, you go to that person or group to work it out.
Something you don’t see – while Raj speaks, his followers sit in the audience, saying inappropriate things, heckling those who disagree, and intimidating people who don’t agree with their point of view. You don’t see that in the video, because the camera is pointed at only the speaker.
Finally, this has been bugging me, and I need to say it. Raj made a public comment at a public forum, in a city where ‘SUNSHINE’ is the buzzword, and everything is open to public scrutiny. If Raj, his followers, the media, and everyone in San Jose can have an opinion on the police, the Council Members, lobbyists, and community leaders and what they do and say in council meetings, then the public can have an opinion about him, what he says and does at the City Council. Raj Jayadev is now a public figure, whether he likes it or not. RAJ – WELCOME TO PUBLIC LIFE.
Eliza,
You are misleading folks in saying,” Bobby Lopez said so himself that they paid a PR firm to put up the video.” I spoke to Sgt. Lopez yesterday about this. Lopez did no such thing. The POA pays a consultant a regular monthly fee. The CONSULTANT hired a new, young inexperienced man who put the video HE made up, as an example to Police Officers of how to use Youtube. (Like MOST young folks he didn’t think the through the consequences of putting up this kind of video, he was just joking around.)
The video was not meant to stay up. It was just to be viewed for a short time by a select few. The POA themselves DID NOT put that video together, so please don’t contribute to the media’s campaign to spread misinformation on this.
Raj and his cronies search and use Youtube all the time, and happened upon the video, posted their opinion on the video, and blew it out of proportion. End of story.
I find it interesting how Raj’s defenders here side-step the basic question: Is Raj’s free speech rights superior to those of the POA?
girlfromthenet,
You stated that you’ve read through lots of Police reports…and heard the truth first hand? You do realize that’s a contradiction in terms right?
And what “lies of police watch groups” are you referring to? Having all this experience, shed some light on what you’re talking about so we have something tangible to discuss. I know lots of people who have been beaten and injured by police. We have medical records, photos, and witnesses.
I’d really like to compare notes, because you have implied that we make these things up. I’ve got lots of artwork and youth workshop planning to do, so if this is all a hoax and these people that come to us day in and day out are making all this stuff up, we’ll just tell them to stop lying so we can go back to being an organization that is all about a better quality of life for EVERYONE.
Bobby thanks for the video and turning the cameras on de-bug and the copwatchers. About time.
But how about this next time. These guys really step up to the plate for their boss, themselves and our country.
Raj play ball with these guys. They’ll make you famous.
http://www.firecoalition.com/article/index.asp?type=announce&id=111
(on youtube also)
This business of attacking messengers in San Jose has got to stop. Pack mentality of unions is like playground pecking order. Let’s let the activists speak, the bloggers blog, the journalists write. Let’s debate the issues and build a more prosperous, tolerant and livable big city without attacking each other! Raj has earned his seat at the table and has provided intelligent commentary to community debates. He has as much right to a microphone as Constant, Oliverio, Bobby Lopez, Fly, Metro and others. The Attack Machine is hurting our civic culture and quality of discourse. Thanks SJI for providing a forum for diverse opinions and keeping the debate going.
#25
Unless someone can pull up some proof of De-Bug being a group of violent agitators, then this is not an issue of free speech.
To the best of my knowledge, slander is indeed a violation of public law and is thereby open to due criticism. In fact, I’m pretty sure that it is, in fact, grounds for a lawsuit.
If I were to make unsubstantiated claims that police officers beat their wives, I would be in the wrong. If I did this under the cloak of a government agency, I could go on record as saying it, harass them at their homes workplaces or any other place i saw fit, and I could make moves to make life really hard for them.
We know that is not how it works, and the scales of justice need to be calibrated and tared. The POA is free to say what they like, even if they are speculating. To put forth untruths as facts, under the guise of an agency sworn to serve and protect the ENTIRE community, is a separate matter entirely.
It is a misconception that De-Bug is an anti-police and anti-government agency. We honor the work of anyone who wants to make the world a better place. This is our mission. If this means shedding light on shameful activities that go largely unnoticed, and that brings us some heat, so be it. We are used to being triumphant in the face of adversity. In fact we thrive in it.
We are a peaceful group of young people who are taking on the task of doing what is not being done for us. We are educated and creative individuals from all walks of life who have joined forces to make things better for the community in which we live. By attempting to hurt us, you are also hurting students fighting to keep after school programs, elderly people who can not get quality care, and countless other groups that are grossly underrepresented, and in many cases misrepresented.
You can talk about us all you want, as long as it is true. When you bend the truth or do not acknowledge fact, you only perpetuate ignorance.
I wish you all the best. Feel free to stop by De-Bug any time. We can have a nice chat and maybe even get something positive accomplished.
24 – Talk about a tortured response. You took more twists with that excuse than I do in my workouts. Can’t Bobby speak for himself and address this here? Does he really want you to make him look foolish with that response? If the POA had anything to with that video they have too much time and money on their hands. Raj’s response was just as childish. Both videos should never have occurred and should now be ignored, but wanna bet that probably won’t happen with either side?
#28-Contortionist, (Cool name!)
I never claimed to be a spokes person for any one but myself, so don’t twist what I said.
If the Metro invites Sgt. Lopez to give his side of things, then I am all for it. I won’t hold my breath that they will ever present both sides of the story on anything, but there’s always a first time for everything.
Secondly, instead of believing what I read, I go to the source whenever possible. I told you guys the truth, and you can take it or leave it.
Having said that, I agree with you, Raj as usual has over reacted, and so have his pals. I too think it is time to move on from this topic. It is over blown from start to finish. The media should have ignored Raj’s calls and covered more important things like our jobless rate, foreclosure rates, etc.
Chips,
Your group makes blanket statements that are slanderous all the time! You say, “The Police brutalize and beat citizens of color. They terrorize citizens of color. They Taser and kill people of color.” The Police? Or one certain Police Officer? Two Police Officers? Who are you talking about? You lump ALL Police Officers into ONE statement Chips and THAT is libelous and slander. It also makes you look like paranoid anti-Police terrorists. The perception we have of you is brought on by YOUR behavior and your own words Chips. You do it to yourself.
If you came to the Mayor and Council with proof of the Officer or Officers who are supposedly terrorizing, beating, and intentionally and without cause Tasing people, the Mayor and Council would do something to investigate THAT Officer or those Officers. But you guys are saying EVERY Police Officer is racist and profiling and harming citizens, and that my friend is just plain BS. We have the most diverse Police Department around. I rarely ever see a white Police Officer. So, who is supposedly out to get people of color? Officers of color? Who are these Police Officers you are talking about Chips?
The word “conversate” is an example of a word in transition. I have heard or read it at least a dozen times in the past 10-12 months and it obviously means something close to “conversation” changed into a different but equally understandable form. I think it comes from the world of youth, texting, email, and online gaming.
I suspect the last laugh will be on the people who mock “conversate” and, in the same posting, make grammatical or spelling errors themselves.
“Conversate” is with us to stay, so get used to it.
Raj and his band of malcontents have been doing this exact same thing to the police officers. Taking a piece of video out of context and plastering it on the internet always portraying officers in a negative light. Tuff sh*t if Raj can’t take the heat now that the tables have been turned. I think it is funny that Raj and his supporters are crying that the POA should be held to some higher standard than they themselves are willing to follow.
Kathleen,
Then explain to everyone why the Vice President of the POA would make the same, if not worse, line of accusatory statements against Raj. It’s on the SJPOA website.
Dale I think you missed the point. No one cares about his speech. I know Raj is educated so why does he talk like he isn’t? I think he does it to fit in with groups who are not just so he can get them to follow him.
Eliza,
I cannot speak for ANYONE but myself. You’ll have to ask the VP why he wrote what he wrote yourself. Try it, you just might be surprised by what a great guy George really is.
Having said that, the POA website is for their members. Just like your DeBugged site is for yours. The POA can say ANYTHING they want just like you can. If you don’t like what you are reading on their site, don’t read it.
I watched the Council Meeting, and I don’t see one single inaccuracy of what Raj said or did, I don’t see any threats against Raj in either the video, or in the VP of the POA’s comment on their POA site. You can’t have it both ways Eliza. Free Speech is free speech.
On a side note: I have read your website. I love some of the art and poems, and yes even some of the stories. I think it is great that you guys are working to help people. To be a compassionate society it is a must to help others, but please don’t lose sight of the real issue here. Collaboration, tolerance, and peace comes from a willingness to have an open mind AND open heart. It doesn’t come from public attacks on Police, or in articles that lack facts and truth, or from running when challenged on your facts. So I honestly wish you the very best, but it is time to move passed this.
Take care and have a great day~
#25 reader
“Is Raj’s free speech rights superior to those of the POA?”
YES! The SJPOA is the union of the SJPD who are sworn officers of the law with greater responsibilities than individuals in San Jose and because they hold the power of life and death over us all. They are allowed to advocate for the interests of their membership in terms of endorsing council and mayoral candidates, however speech that threatens individuals in the community for extra scrutiny by police and police supporters is an abuse of the SJPD’s power.
#31 kathleen
The SJPD as an organization arrests Latinos and Blacks at rates double and higher than their proportion of the population. That is the definition of racially disproportionate policing. Stating that is not libelous. And it certainly is not indicative that a person or group are “paranoid anti-Police terrorists”.
You normally spend so much time trying to appear moderate and considerate of everyone, except when they suggest civilian oversight of the police. Then they become “paranoid anti-Police terrorists”. Very sad. Almost as sad as defending the minutemen as you did at: http://www.sanjoseinside.com/sji/blog/entries/tea_party_draws_red_baiters/ comment #52
People are trying to draw the attention to the fact that people of color are indeed suffering under disproportionate rates of arrest and use of force by SJPD. Denying racism on the part of the police in the face of the reports in the media and the experiences of those who attend city council or other forums to testify about their experiences suggests that you and a lot of others on SJI are just plain in denial.
Dale #32: The fact that a dozen ignorant people may have spoken a new “word” does not make it a proper or correct word. So, should we all go around saying “We be this”, or “We be that” or “What it is?”?
There’s a lot of ignorant sh*t that’s here to stay, Dale; but that doesn’t mean it’s correct. Your sort of logic is one of the reasons this country is getting dumbed down. Yo, let’s all be talkin’ like we wuz from da hood. That’s just friggin’ great, Dale!
Downtownster—thanks for breaking it down and bringing it back to the real issues.
#5: What makes you think Raj posted the video response?
What is most alarming about SJPOA’s video is the framing of Raj’s comments as a “threat”, after just coming from a rally organized by mostly Latino families calling for accountability on the part of the police for the high arrest rates. This was a rally organized by community members who have already been brutalized and mistreated by SJPD officers. The SJPOA’s creation of their video clearly targeting Raj sends a message to Everyone and Anyone who speaks out against police brutality that you will be targeted, your face will be blasted out there so that all the cops know who you are. It is a clear intimidation tactic.
This was never just about Raj. This was about the SJPOA sending a message to community members who have been brutalized by the police and courageously come out to tell THEIR own experience of false arrests. This was about the SJPOA backing City Council members into a corner and forcing City Council to take sides. Debates around accountability have never been about sides—if done according to principle, then they are about upholding the community’s greater good. I have listened to Raj’s words, seen him in action, seen his work. I listened to community members who despite their anger around their personal harrowing experiences with police, STILL call for greater accountability. It has never been about singling one cop out but a larger overhaul of the attitudes and actions of rogue cops that need to be held accountable to what they were sworn to do—serve and protect EVERYONE.
SJPOA needs to be at a higher level of standard because they are leadership in the community. Them posting their video should let us ALL down. I don’t feel any more safe during the day knowing that the very leadership of SJPOA is engaged in lies and manipulation—calling De-Bug members “thugs” who engage in “criminal behavior” and calling for physical violence. I sure hope their leadership is not in charge of training SJPD to write police reports. It is irresponsible of them to put SJPD on unnecessary alert for a “threat” that doesn’t exist.
If folks really wanted a better San Jose, they’d listen to the message Raj and the families who organized the rally that day—rather than rest on their automatic primate levels of defending cops actions regardless of what cops do or say. I have never heard Raj personally bash anyone for who they are, and he doesn’t deserve any kind of bashing here especially by people who don’t even know his work on the daily or tried to CONVERSATE with him on a personal basis.
Justice demands us to call on our higher level of thought and decision-making. I hope this moment allows us to respond to that call.
#26 First of all, if you read it correctly you would know that I wrote “read the truth first hand” not “heard the truth first hand”.
Secondly, I believe police bruitality exists and I also believe there should be police accountability.
Thirdly, I can’t talk about police matters and what’s written in police reports. I could be fired for that and I value my job. Sorry.
Downtownster,
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. We can agree to disagree. I personally look forward to the day the Consortium is done studying this matter. They have no vested interest in the outcome and will examine our population ratios, and many other contributing factors that the Mercury News ignored in compiling their BS stats.
It will be interesting to see the data by these neutrals, and what kinds of methods they use to arrive at their conclusions. Until that study is done I will with hold my judgment.
And Downtownster, it is not what you say so much as it is “how” you say it. None of us can escape our tendencies toward stereotypical views on things, nor can we change the color of our skin, but we certainly can change our minds, open our eyes, ears, and heart in an effort to at least look at the other side.
I have already conceded that there probably are a few Police Officers out there that need their butts kicked off the force, but I will not agree that everyone of our Officers, or even a majority are doing what you claim they are. I work in Social Justice with youth offenders, victims of crimes, both legal and illegal immigrants and I know better than that.
Having said that, I stand firm in my belief that if you behave in a law-abiding manner, you have absolutely nothing to fear.
Downtownster says—-People are trying to draw the attention to the fact that people of color are indeed suffering under disproportionate rates of arrest and use of force by SJPD.
In my opinion the only thing you are drawing attention to is the fact that you see people in colors, while I and many others see people as people. Yet, when I read a blog such as this I do tend to start thinking. Then I start noticing people in color and race. I notice that 90% of the people on the eastside are brown Latin people. Not the thirty something percent from some dated census.
So I believe your comments and thoughts are counter productive towards your cause. That is my opinion.
Fly:
Telling headline. Raj ridiculed? Actually NO. Accountable YES! Please FLY, try to distance yourself from your friend next time for the sake of journalistic integrity.
As much as he embraces “accountability” for SJPD I would think he would welcome this. As well, it is refreshing to see SJPD engage him. They have a right, and in my view, at this point, a responsibility to do so.
#32 Downtownster: I don’t recall anything in the Bill of Rights that says “…except for police officers.” Can you cite any legal authority to support your claim that police officers have limits on their right of free speech?
I am also interested in your thoughts about this fact: 25% of the SJPD’s officers are Latino. Why would Latino officers target Latinos for arrest, or tolerate such racism from the rest of the department?
Finally, I encourage everyone on BOTH sides of this debate to take the time to TALK to officers about these very issues. I think you will find the slanted viewpoint presented by the pitiful Mercury News, and newspaper wannabe Metro, are a grossly distorted picture of the men and women who dedicate their lives to keeping us all safe.
It’s really time for the Merc & Metro to stop bashing our local police and dedicate their considerable resources toward building a more positive community.
Who knows, honest reporting might even sell a few papers!
#36 whined:“People are trying to draw the attention to the fact that people of color are indeed suffering under disproportionate rates of arrest and use of force by SJPD.”
Well, Downtownster, unless they were acquitted, I guess they did the crime, didn’t they, and desrved to be arrested. The proportional arrest thing is pure B.S. I guees it wouldn’t be P.C. to suggest that perhaps they commit crimes in higher proprotion than us other folks.
#42 Reader,
You make good points. The SJPD is made up of every race and ethnicity and even sexual preference. To think there is some conspiracy to target a particular race, I mean, “person of color”, is beyond ridiculous.
It is even more amazing that critics of the police department believe that officers are not protected under the Bill of Rights and entitled to free speech. It is incredible that these critics have such low standards that they don’t believe they need to be held up to the same standards as the officers they bash. How cowardly and weak is that? If they actually have a valid complaint they should be open to the criticism, just as they demand the officers do. That these groups react as they do speaks volumes of how baseless their complaints, and exposes them as the uneducated malcontents they really are.
It is really a shame these groups representing a fraction of a fraction of society have been given any legitimacy by our city leaders, but in todays politically correct and feel good society it is totally expected.
Raj is akin to a Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton who have made a living creating a victim underclass.
Chip,
You know what? When people say they were beaten by the police I could believe it, but when they say they’re innocent and did nothing to provoke it. I know they are lieing and it’s hard to feel sorry for them because they are part of the problem.
If any of you were actually at the council meeting you would know what happened after Raj’s comments.
After saying there would be a ‘street response’ Raj walk out, gathered a crowd, and they came up to the 2nd floor entrance. Tey were shouting, banging on the window with their hands, fists, and the sticks from their signs.
I was worried there was going to be a mini-riot! Security mut have thought so too, a they all went up there, accompanied by several plain clothes officers, icluding the assistant chief.
Now, if I remember correctly from my college AJ classes, that’s either inciting a riot or making a terrorist threat (422 PC: making a threat against the safety of another, with the present ability o follow through with it.
On the news tonight, the POA announced their new website and blog. Raj was interviewed by phone and he isn’t very happy about it. He feels the POA’s website is dangerous and will further alienate citizens from the Police. I’m not sure how he comes to that conclusion when it can only serve to do two very positive things:
Allow citizens the opportunity to have DIRECT contact with the Police, and get the other side of the story. If SJI will allow it, I have posted their link below. Protectsanjose.com.
http://protectsanjose.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-protectsanjose.html
What’s with these people and the San Jose Mercury News having a constant problem with the San Jose Police. What names do you read in paper being arrested for violent crimes? 95% are minorities. Is the problem that to many are getting caught. Let these people get drunk and drive, stab, shoot,rape and rob.
Get a life Raj, it’s getting old.
#47 Kathleen
I don’t think you understand the concerns that are being expressed by the police accountability activists and people of color in San Jose:
Youth of color get TOO MUCH “direct contact” with the police and it can ruin their lives. That is the point.
A public relations website for the SJPD does not address the racial profiling, arbitrary arrests (attitude arrests), and use of force in San Jose. It just broadcasts the SJPD line of “everything is fine, you have nothing to fear if you follow the law, we are color blind, ignore our critics because they are biased/stupid/Raj, and give us more funding”.
Downtownster,
Question for you. Why does Raj make fun of councilman Ash Kalra’s name in Raj’s rebuttal to the POA film? Raj refers to Ash Kalra as someone who was named after a cigarette butt. Don’t you think this is racist and making fun of a “person of color”? Wouldn’t this be your same response if the SJPOA had done the same? Personally, I find Raj refering to Ash as a cigarette butt very offensive. I also think it shows that if Raj has to resort to name calling he is extremely immature and taints everything else that he says. How can you support Raj refering to a person of Indian descent a cigarette butt?
#50 Kathleen
I have no doubt that you have a wealth of experience in the legal system and many insights into racism, however, this is not about you or your virtues, nor is it about individual police or their individual virtues.
This is about systemic racism in the way police target, arrest, and use violence on people in San Jose as well as about how the SJPD, SJPOA speak about their critics. When a person with a gun (like the 1400 cops in SJPD/SJPOA) asks an unarmed person “are you threatening me?” it is an escalation of the conflict and a rhetorical threat, much like refering to people of color in the U.S. as “paranoid anti-Police terrorists” (Kathleen #31 on this page).
I will certainly agree that the DA, court system, public defenders and many other factors play an important role in determining how the lives of youth of color are valued in San Jose. However that does not get police off the hook for targeting people of color disproportionately to their part of the populations for arrest and use of force.
More “direct contact” with police is the last thing that most people in this community want because it can be very expensive, humiliating, legally damaging and dangerous.
I think Raj should run for Mayor.
I’ve seen his brand of activism and the self-confidence that goes with speaking for the oppressed and silent majority. Even when surrounded by a small core of like minded “professional activists” who spend their time advocating for issues and manufacturing new ones to keep the cause alive, they constantly present themselves as speaking for a large (but absent) constituency.
I’ve also seen journalists behave this way believing they represent the public and not the elected leaders.
So lets put it to a vote and see. There’s probably 5 council seats and the Mayor up in 2010. Let’s see a slate of activist candidates running for each seat and Raj running for Mayor. Then we’ll see who’s sitting where in the council chambers afterwards. If not elected, Raj should accept that he’s just one person speaking for himself (2 minute time limit) and not some super-delegate self-appointed to speak for a vague but large electorate.
Downtownster:
It would seem that you, and your friends, will NEVER be satisfied with the manner in which SJPD police our city. Not until they refer to a real-time city demographics guide before making an arrest. Who knows, maybe if that did exist we could make things right and arrest more whites and fewer people of color. Isn’t that really the result you are asking for?
You describe the issues as systemic. That alone shows how little you know about SJPD and how they compare to other large cities. Many, many factors effect stats that are used by your lobby and typically they are taken out of context.
That said, perhaps you might learn how to adapt and accept this “racist” police department we have because the change you want will not come. Not in a city that does not need it.
This has been said, but apparently some people don’t want to hear it. I understand, all we can do is make the offering. No one at De-Bug made or posted the rebuttal video, nor has anyone told us they made it—good or bad we own our all of actions. It also doesn’t make sense that me, being Indian-American, would make fun of an Indian-American’s name. Furthermore, it seems unlikely that anyone who respects diversity would do that. Come to your conclusions then as to who then would make the video.
We tried posting this on the protectsanjose blog, but it didn’t post. Below is a letter I sent to the President of the SJPOA earlier this week. – raj
To: Bobby Lopez, President of the San Jose Police Officers Association
From: Raj Jayadev, Executive Director of Silicon Valley De-Bug
Hello Mr. Lopez,
I have received calls regarding a “rebuttal video” made and posted on youtube that is described as a response to the SJPOA video that your organization made on on me. I am writing you to let you know that I did not make that video, no one at De-Bug made that video, nor do we know who made that video. No one has approached us either and claimed responsibility for the video. I have also been told there is some belief that the SJPOA actually made the rebuttal video as well. I will let you decide if you wish to respond to that or not.
I watched the rebuttal video yesterday ( I am in Atlanta for a conference) and I can say that that type of video just is not our style.
I have much more to say regarding the original video you hired a firm to produce, as well as some writings you have posted regarding my community—San Jose residents—but can address those at another time.
This letter also serves as an open invitation for a dialogue between the SJPOA and the community group I am with, De-Bug. We can conversate.
Sincerely,
Raj Jayadev
Downtownster,
Congrats! You are very well versed in the art of verbal Judo! Taking my comments and twisting them to your version may work in your world of activism, but not in mine. Instead of trying to intimidate me by twisting what I said to your meaning, and putting the number of my post by it, as though you are serving a jury evidence that what you proclaim is the truth, just listen, and aedeses soldier. My comment simply meant that by behaving the way you guys do, you are making the public see you in a light that clearly you don’t want to be seen in. Twist it how you want, but it is what it is and nothing more.
Since you seem to be a person who likes to provide things that are visual to prove your assertions, let me reciprocate in a way you can understand better. Here is what we see you doing to Council Members and Police Officers who don’t agree with you. It is most certainly a form of intimidation, and harassment to get your way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMA1Goxghu8
http://www.siliconvalleydebug.com/story/060107/stories/pyleaction.html
http://www.metroactive.com/metro/07.18.07/nancy-pyle-0729.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Cp-ILLDWQ
“George Beattie of the San Jose POA, was asked about the controversial video on June 5 by a corporate media (KTVU-TV) reporter. The reporter questioned the need to ridicule people offering testimony at City Council. Beattie said, “it just presents another side to the story”. When asked by the reporter if the video wasn’t, in fact, condescending, Beattie dodged the question commenting, “People can draw their own conclusion.” Read the whole story:http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/06/05/18600692.php
Now, I think this is pretty self explanatory Downtownster, but if you need more assistance, I’d just direct you back to your own website, Youtube, My Space, and to every website you’ve spread your message to. I do this in the hopes that you might look at it in an object manner. You know the kind you are claiming I/we don’t have.
.
“Every man must decide whether he will walk in the light of creative altruism or in the darkness of destructive selfishness.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Downtownster:
You cannot be an activist; you must be an attorney, or a political consultant. Activists practice the art of collaboration. We involve ourselves in the exchange of ideas, and solutions. You act like an attorney, or a political consultant, always trying to win an argument and never conceding when you are wrong. You can learn a lot from the way AACI, the 100 Black Men representative, and others on the Drunken Task Force behaved. They stuck it out, collaborated, and are creating change. They accomplished everything you and Raj failed to do. A true activist puts the good of everyone above self. They do not seek to harm or humiliate people who disagree with them, like Silicon Valley De Bug does.
What your group did to Nancy Pyle, by storming into City Hall like you did, is a perfect example of what not to do when presented with an alternative viewpoint. Publicly humiliating her only served to alienate her and others in positions of power from your cause. By doing what you are doing to the POA, and what you did to Nancy Pyle shows a pattern of disrespect and intimidation. The message you are sending though these actions is that you will hold them up to public ridicule when they don’t agree with you, or give you what you want. You have a double standard for how you treat people, as opposed to how you expect to be treated.
#49-Downtownster,
You are very wrong about my lack of understanding regarding racism, profiling, etc. I was raised with two half black sisters during the end of integration. Believe me when I say I get it. That was a time when some Police Officers would take a club to you just because. My eldest sister came home crying everyday because harassed, humiliated, and was made to sit or stand in the back of the bus, so please don’t preach to me about racism, or profiling.
I have also worked in Juvenile Justice for over 10 years. I was on the NAB Board for 2 years. Also, Blanca Alvarado, and Jim McEntee started a Juvenile Justice Committee and I sat on it. I fought hard to help get Juvenile Probation under the wing and protection of the Board of Supervisors. I gave testimony on the number of youth of color that the JUSTICE System, not the Police, sent to Juvenile Hall. Most, not all, white youth were given fines, while youth of color served time for the exact same crime.
You can fool yourself into thinking that because I’m white and educated that I am blind and dumb, but I can tell you that just isn’t true.
I’ve worked in Victim Offender Mediation for 5-6 years, and every youth offender of color I’ve worked with, had the integrity and maturity to own up to the crimes they committed. It was their parents and folks like Raj who makes excuses for them. How are these kids ever going to learn accountability, and respect for themselves as long as you guys convince them their race, not the crimes they commit are responsible for their arrest?
As to the POA website, you are seeing only that which you chose to see. The POA website has allowed you and your anonymous buddies to speak your truth, without censorship. Can you say the same about the DE Bug website? I think not.
If you continue to throw a tantrum about the POA’s right to have their own voice, following, and opinion on things, then it is you, and your followers who are guilty of lacking integrity, acceptance, and tolerance.
“If you don’t like something change it; if you can’t change it, change the way you think about it.”
—Mary Engelbreit
Interesting blog. Never heard of Raj but I have seen what he has been referring to first hand. Nothing like a beating under the color of authority or a police report that bears no resemblence to reality to color your opinion. SJ has a problem, a big problem, one that seems to be finally be coming out into the light. Most are skeptical as expected and I might not believe it if I hadn’t seen it either. I think that there is enough evidence to believe that something is happening; you don’t see this much controversy over absolutely groundless claims. I keep reading these same stories over and over again. When are we going to do something about it? This didn’t start yesterday and to my recollection, its been going on since the late 70s. BTW, whose paying for all these brutality lawsuits?
#55 Raj,
To say making such a video is not your group’s style is laughable. U-Tube is full of them.
BTW, I also tried posting something on the new POA sight which has not posted yet.
It was very complimentary of the police department so it was not that they were trying to keep your comment off. I’m sure it was they had no moderator check it this weekend; if you really did post something there I am sure it will soon be up. Raj, unforturnately while you may have some good points, your group has turned most everyone off by crying racism each time a police officer even sneezes wrong.
#55-Raj,
I do not believe De Bug made the rebuttal video, any more than I believe the POA did. I think you have a third party instigator throwing gasoline on the fire. I’ve been a mediator and an activist for more than 25 years, and I can tell you this kind of action is not uncommon at all. Please be mindful of this warning, ask the POA before running to the press making accusations about them when it comes to things like this hence forth.
And Raj, I am greatly disappointed in you for running to the press, and for posting all kinds of accusations all over the Internet about the Police. You really need to stop and review your motivation, and behaviors. Immigrants who come to this country already fear the Police because in their country they’d shot you before talk to you. I have immigrant crime victims that are too terrified to come forward and report rapes, assaults, and robberies. Your Police bashing is not helping these silent victims of crime. Won’t you PLEASE reconsider your methods for the sake of these folks? Practice what you preach. Sit down with the POA in PRIVATE and work this out.
The Mayor and Council CAN NOT punish the POA so give it up. The POA is not under the control of ANY group except their members. While you are wasting time at council Meetings trying to come across as the innocent, injured party, people are suffering daily. People you could be helping, not harming.
#56 Kathleen
I still think that we are talking about two separate things:
1) You are critiquing those who criticize the SJPD/SJPOA’s behavior. Everyone hears you. You reject arguments that the SJPD need to be held accountable by the public: whether it is testimony at public meetings about abuse at the hands of SJPD, the release of arrest records for drunk in public, or advocacy of civilian oversight, you reject it all.
2) I am criticizing the SJPD/SJPOA’s behavior toward people of color in San Jose regarding racially disproportionate rates of arrest and use of force and I am also speaking on behalf of the rights of other people who criticize those behaviors. I do not think it is appropriate to have sworn, uniformed, and armed cops making public statements against critics of the SJPD like Raj Jayadev since the police have the power of life and death over us all and their assertion that someone is a “threat” puts that person’s voice and life at risk from police and/or wingnut vigilantes.
Also, the links you post are mostly calling out Councilmember Pyle for using the power of her office to make racist statements against youth of color and blame them for the profiling and arbitrary arrests many of them suffer. I think that the people in those videos who are doing the criticism of Pyle would not be ashamed to do the same thing again.
Regarding the “rebuttal to the SJPOA” video, Raj has posted above (Raj Jayadev #55) that neither he nor anyone from his organization posted it. Your post in #56 came out only 9 minutes after Raj’s, so I will assume you just had not read it. Do you assert that Raj or someone from DeBug is actually “SanJoseCommunity” as listed on the youtube page? If so, do you have any information that you can post to back that up?
#57 Christian
I can understand why people as far to the pro-cop side of the spectrum as you and Kathleen would associate me with Raj (we are both critical of SJPD behavior and are advocating changes in how the public can oversee the SJPD), however is there anything other than my viewpoint that you can cite that makes you think that I am part of DeBug or any other group?
Furthermore, nothing in any of the videos of the protest against Nancy Pyle’s racist comments about how youth need to not look like gangmembers if they don’t want to be arrested looks like a threat. Nobody was armed and nobody was threatening her or anyone else. There was a lot of public humiliation for Pyle, but that was a result of her racist comments at a city council meeting.
So here we have two examples of political speech:
1) a bunch of community activists holding a “faux-fashion show” to draw attention to the racism of a council member and then carrying the loud protest into her office building
and
2) a somewhat cleverly edited video (produced by a PR firm hired by the SJPOA) of a police accountability activist accusing him of threatening the SJPD/city during his 2 minute public comment at a City Council meeting
What’s the difference?
The first one is private individuals gathering publicly to address their grievances to their elected official in a loud and humiliating protest.
The second one is a professionally contracted PR piece paid for by an organization representing the police which accuses a police accountability activist of making a “threat” against the city and the police, who are armed and carry the power of life and death over the activist and the rest of us.
The only threat in either case is made by the PR firm hired by the SJPOA, painting Jayadev as making a “threat” against a 1400 person strong armed agency of the government.
Please.
#59-“I keep reading these same stories over and over again.” True and that is only because that is ALL the press will print. It sells papers, so what else is new.
#6-Steve,
You are correct. The POA does not have a weekend monitor as of yet. As you can see, Raj is already making the accusation that the POA purposely didn’t post his comment, without even taking this fact into account. He is hopeless. I give up!
#61-Downtownster,
We are going to have to agree to disagree.
Let me also say that you are committing the very same crime you accuse others of by making stereotypical statements like, “I can understand why people as far to the pro-cop side of the spectrum as you and Kathleen..” We support the Police yes, but we are in no way deaf, dumb and blind to the fact that there may be a “few” Officers out there who are conducting themselves badly.
Having said that, I have come to realize that you are so positional that your ears and eyes are closed too tightly to hear a thing that is being said to you, therefore I won’t be discussing this with you any more. There is absolutely no give and take on your part. How sad for you that being right is more important to you than having a real healthy exchange of viewpoints.
64 – Kind of like when Kathleen accuses SJI of censoring her?
#66-Al Newman,
They have and the Editor admitted it on several occassions. Unless they removed it, go back and read Rants and Raves when the Metro first took over. The Editor claimed I was slandering the Metro because I said the Metro allow ads for”message” in their magazine~
Downtownster,
You missed the point. The way that the “faux-fashion show’ was done frightened City Hall staff, and citizens in the building. Council Member Pyle felt intimidated and threatened by it as well.
When you answer my questions instead of playing dodge ball we’ll talk.
#66-She has been censored a few times, so have I.
Thanks for the links @ 56, Kathleeen, but the audio quality was so low, I could barely understand what the various folks were saying.
The first 2 videos started out with script about what Nancy Pyle allegedly said @ a June 21 council meeting. Since today is only June 9, what year did she say it, Raj?
Reality #58—don’t forget Santa Cruz. They might buy Raj’s rap there.
59—all WHAT brutality lawsuits? Few get filed, since most have no merit, as even “activist” lawyers understand.
The conventional wisdom is that if a guy on the street sticks a gun or a knife in your belly and demands your money, you don’t fight. You give it to him. That wisdom holds for most folks (us law abiding ones) when a cop gives a command to raise your hands, get down on your hands and knees, whatever…
Street conventional wisdom is to confront the cop, to refuse to obey the command of the officer. Stupid move. Don’t try to get a victory on the street. Don’t try to show the cop how “bad” you are. You can’t win. If the cop is wrong, take it to court.
If not, just do what he/she says, and take it like a man. And if you wanna be a gangsta, expect trouble from the boys in blue, and expect no sympathy from anyone but Raj and his ragged band of “activists”.
Kathleen #62 makes a good point. But it assumes Raj really wants to change anything. His activities seem to be self-aggrandizing, designed to pump up his claimed importance in the community. If the problem is solved, he becomes irrelevant; like the human appendix—no-one knows what it’s for or what it does.
The following is San Jose POA President Bobby Lopez’s response to an email he received from Raj Jayadev last week that has been posted in comment #55:
From: Bobby Lopez, President of the San Jose Police Officers Association
To: Raj Jayadev, Executive Director of Silicon Valley De-Bug
Raj,
You can call me anytime or meet with me. I’ll even provide the coffee. I have an open door policy. I meet with everyone whether I agree with them or not.
As for your suggestion that we made the rebuttal video, it’s not true and a really silly accusation or a clever tactic to deflect blame.
As for the original video, we made it and stand by it. It reflects how we, officers and neighborhood leaders, feel about your testimony that day in the council chambers and the tactics you’ve been using to demean our officers. We did not hire a PR firm to do it. We have no problem expressing ourselves when we are under attack, or even engaging in a collaborative effort with community leaders.
However, we do have a firm working a blog that will debut tomorrow. It’s called ProtectSanJose.com. Check it out. You’ll read and see more about public safety and neighborhood concerns than you are probably aware of. We think this site will provide a view that’s way more accurate than the narrow, biased, anti-police opinions we see and hear too much of these days. Of course, if you disagree you’re always welcome to comment. Or should I say conversate? Or maybe blogosate?
Bobby
Bobby Lopez did post Raj’s comment AND gave Raj an email response that I guess Raj forgot to mention in his #55 post. A notation on his response to Raj says,”(Note: This email exchange took place late last week.)”
http://protectsanjose.com/Blog.html
Well Raj, now may be now you can stop bringing this private issue to the press, on the Internet, on blogs, before the Council, and walk your own talk. It’s time to try and work it out yourself, or drop it once and for all. It is your personal problem with the POA; it is not up to the court of public opinion, or the media, or the Council to resolve. Best wishes to you both.
Raj:
Will the hilarity from YOU and BUGs-US-ALL never stop!? First you CLAIM you did not produce the video. Then you insinuate that the SJPOA made it!!? WOW!!! LOL.
Your reference to a conference you are at in Atlanta (like anyone cares) sounds like an ALIBI! LOL,…you my man, are funny. You really should have been a comedian because this act of yours is at best funny. You remind me a soccer player who goes down and writhes on the ground as IF he were injured, the whole time looking out of the corner of his eye to see if the referee is buying it. Raj, we are not buying this crap. In fact, your game is over.
This pathetic attempt to start some political career here in SJ is, shall we say, FINITO. Before this last attack at the SJPOA, and by default the SJPD and CSJ, I would have said your chances were slim and none. Well,…I think I just saw slim leave the building. Raj, the fat lady is singing. You have become, well, a BUG on the political landscape. You benefit no one, not even the ACTUAL victims you believe you represent. Why? Because your credibility is shot. You ability to collaborate, gone. Political capital, spent. You are politically BANKRUPT. You did this to yourself so we feel no sympathy for you. Good luck in Berkeley or SF.
Tomorrow’s Mercury News editorial is online bashing the POA for creating a blog and attacking Raj. The editorial board claims Raj did not make any threat regarding the “street response”:
“The police accuse him of making threats. Jayadev did not; it’s the officers’ commentary that is intimidating. “
The editorial can be found at http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_12549229
#68 informed us:“The way that the “faux-fashion show’ was done frightened City Hall staff, and citizens in the building. Council Member Pyle felt intimidated and threatened by it as well.”
Really? Frightened? They all need to get into a bunker somewhere if they are frightened by people of color with megaphones in a public place demonstrating peacefully.
It seems that the Murky News (not surprisingly) has a double standard when it comes to free speech. Only those with whom the editorial board agrees have free speech rights, according to their editorial.
All felons and their families, and many misdemeanants and their families have no respect for the law or for those who enforce it to protect the rest of us. When confronted, the least they do is verbally abuse the officers doing their duty, they get very confrontational, and many times attack the officers. Raj, Weeby, and and the Murky News editorial board seem to condone that behavior as “speech”.
When we mouthed off to the nuns or our parents, we got a smack in the mouth for our lack of respect. Too bad cops aren’t allowed to do that. The criminals of this world have no respect for the law, other people, and especially cops. If they get an attitude adjustment, that’s fine by me. They should have developed the right attitude growing up; but their parents were unable or unwilling to teach it to them.
Raj must be right about this whole
SJPOA issue. After all, the “Party for Socialism and Liberation” just gave him their backing. This has to be a proud moment for Raj and his group of malcontents.
http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=12275&news_iv_ctrl=1261
Yeah, I know it’s because the Council meets on Tuesdays, but scheduling a rally on an NBA finals night? Cops aren’t the sports fans they used to be, I guess.
RE #74, which stated in part:“Community expresses solidarity with activist targeted by San José police
More than 30 members of the community spoke out during a San José City Council meeting June 2 in response to the targeting by the San José Police Officers Association of Raj Jayadev, director of Silicon Valley De-Bug, a youth and student activist group.
So now 30 people is “The Commununity”?
#71 Kathleen
“Well Raj, now may be now you can stop bringing this private issue to the press, on the Internet, on blogs, before the Council, and walk your own talk. It’s time to try and work it out yourself, or drop it once and for all. It is your personal problem with the POA; it is not up to the court of public opinion, or the media, or the Council to resolve.”
Kathleen, I think it was the SJPOA that brought this fiasco on themselves and made it so very public by posting their attack video on youtube, not Raj.
The police accountability activists will continue “walking their talk” by drawing attention to the racially disproportionate rates of arrest and use of force by the SJPD and then advocating civilian oversight of the police as they were doing before the SJPOA’s disastrous foray into filmmaking.
And as far as this being Raj’s problem with the SJPOA, it looks like the SJPOA and their PR consultants have made it the Mercury news’s problem as well as the other police accountability folks’ problem.
You are right that there is a need to work this all out between the police accountability folks and the SJPD and the City and that it can’t be legislated or blogged into being. In the past you and Raj both talked about building bridges between the community and the police. I hope that the police accountability folks will develop a relationship with the SJPOA/SJPD/City Council in order to improve the community’s relationship with the police, however it will be in spite of the “us vs. them” dynamic the SJPOA is fostering with their new PR plan as described in Liccardo and Kalra’s letter in the Mercury News today.
What IS up to the court of public opinion and the City Council is how much to cut out of the police budget during these tough economic times since they have so much spare time and money to be hiring PR companies to make stunningly unhelpful publicity stunts like their youtube video.
I hope that the vigil you are organizing for this evening to support the victims of violent crime goes well and that their stories receive the attention that they deserve and are not lost in the trumpeting of the virtues of the SJPD, the need to silence critics of the SJPD, and the need to support the SJPD and their budget requests at City Council meetings. That would be cheap, manipulative, and disappointing. The dignity of the victims of all violent crime, whether at the hands of gangsters or cops need to be recognized and the families must be supported, so if it is tasteful and thoughtful and focused on the their stories, I will applaud your efforts at supporting the families which is important work. Just keep it classy Kathleen.
Steve and JMO,
Have you read the article and the Editorial in the Jerky News?
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_12549229?nclick_check=1
http://www.mercurynews.com/valley/ci_12547890
I think this “Father Knows Best” routine by Smiling Liccardo, and Kalra reflects just how out of touch these two are with reality. The Council sits on their rear, hoping this will all go a way, while Raj and his merry followers loudly, and disrespectfully invade Council Chambers calling the SJPD terrorists, accusing them of my murder, racial profiling, and brutality. And then they are surprised when the POA has had enough of it and swipes back at them. Amazing.
These two don’t realize that when these groups bang on the windows, storm through City Hall and frighten city staff, and innocent citizens OUR rights are being violated. I’ve watched citizens get up and leave, or decide not to speak because they hear comments made in the audience about citizens or Council Members who voice their support for the Police. So here we are again, the rights of the “activists” over those of law-abiding citizens.
Gee, I have to wonder if Kalra, and Liccardo will expect money, and endorsements from Raj and his buddies come election time, or will they crawl back to the POA to get it?
I also find it sad that the Murkey News put this on the FRONT page of the local paper, and a rally to honor the victims of violent crime on the third page. Hum. Sure shows you the mentality of the Murkey News staff~
As a follow up to my prior comment stating that Kathleen was the organizer of the vigil for victims of violent crime today, here is the link to the event announcement which lists Kathleen Flynn as the organizer.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/event.php?eid=116636380419
Just didn’t want to sound like I was making an unsubstantiated claim that Kathleen was the organizer. I think it is relevant to this thread because Kathleen has accused me of not employing “give and take” on issues of police accountability, while it turns out that she is much more heavily invested in defending the police than I had thought.
#76 wrote:“The police accountability activists will continue “walking their talk” by drawing attention to the racially disproportionate rates of arrest …”
Just when did this notion creep into being that you can only arrest people in their proportion to the total community, versus arresting everyone who committed a crime?
And the “universe” is not what percentage of a given racial background live in the city of SJ. It is, what percentage of them make up the DT criminals.
The LAST thing I want is for SJPD (or any police agency)to be “accountable” to a rag tag bunch of apologists for lawbreakers.
Downtownster:
Kathleen is fairly transparent about her position and she did not hide that she was invested in this cause. How invested are you in your position?
80 – You are correct that Kathleen is “fairly transparent” but in the interest of full disclosure she should have stated what her role is in this event. She would certainly make an issue if it were Raj or some of the others she identifies as enemies of the police.
#78-80,
You two are making some pretty heavy and false accusations here! Twisting the facts again I see! Please see:
http://www.sanjoseinside.com/sji/blog/entries/rants_and_raves29/
http://protectsanjose.com/Blog.html
I posted this, and my name is down as the MC. I have also blogged on here, and other places numerous times that my friend, Vahid Hosseini was murdered, and that June 3rd, was the 1-year anniversary of his death. I have written an article on this rally and it has been posted in the Rose Garden News paper. My name is all over the place as the organizer! I also wrote an article on it on Protectsanjose.com. Where have YOU been?
I also organized the Peace March in March of this year for the Hosseini family, and other MURDER VICTIMS and their families. So, if you have a problem with my organizing a rally and vigil for families of violent crime, and you want to degrade this effort by making your usual accusations, go right ahead, I could care less. It just verifies how blind and selfish you truly are to the pain of others in this community.
If honoring the memory of victims of violent crime, and supporting their families through this horrific time, and THANKING the Police Officers who have spent countless hours, weeks, months and years on finding murderers garnered the kind of press De Bug gets, I’m sure more families would feel the kind of support, and get the kind of justice they deserve. We’d have more Officers on the streets to keep us safe from harm, and they’d be staffed well enough to conduct more investigations to catch these criminals.
Downtownster,
“I hope that the vigil you are organizing for this evening to support the victims of violent crime goes well and that their stories receive the attention that they deserve and are not lost in the trumpeting of the virtues of the SJPD, the need to silence critics of the SJPD, and the need to support the SJPD and their budget requests at City Council meetings.”
“The dignity of the victims of all violent crime, whether at the hands of gangsters or cops need to be recognized and the families must be supported, so if it is tasteful and thoughtful and focused on the their stories, I will applaud your efforts at supporting the families which is important work. Just keep it classy Kathleen.”
You need to show some respect toward Kathleen. Kathleen is my fiancée. I take umbrage to your comments to her. She knew Vahid for 23 years. She went to college with his wife, watched his daughters grow up, and has suffered the pain of seeing his family grieve an inexplicable loss. You need to shut your mouth about this Downtownster before you look even more ignorant and classless than you already do.
82 – 83—Wow, talk about missing the point. Do you have to have pictures to go along with this?
You both get so defensive if anybody dares disagree. It had gotten beyond tiresome to the point of ridiculous.
Now, you’re calling people out because you disagree. You guys need a timeout—or maybe we need one from you.
There was nothing wrong with the statement about the rally. The PD and their supporters have long used the budget as hammer and they never hesitate to use it to get their way. That’s not anti-police or insensitivity towards crime victims—it is just stating that the PD is not above using politics to get what they think is best for their officers. The fact that it may come at the expense of other city workers or services doesn’t matter to them or to you, apparently. There should be some common ground rather than “all for me.”
Save us your tired arguments, please. We can disagree and still be good citizens and still generally support the police.
I’ll prepare for some tirade from one or both of you but it will be misguided and misdirected. But go ahead.
I have been reading this debate for several days. It has been vigorous and in a free society, this is very positive. Perhaps we can help the debate by looking at some historical perspective.
Police departments, as agents of the citizens of a community (not a independent branch associated with a particular power group or ideology), have a responsibility to all members of the public. We have had to learn this lesson over and over in the USA. All too often police agencies are the tools of the local power structure. If the power structure is racist, police agencies enforce racist policies. If the power structure is sexist, police agencies enforce sexist policies.
For example, during the 1960’s police were called on to keep people of color out of restaurants, out of voting booths and out of certain neighborhoods. In another example, during the 1980’s, battered women and rape victims wasted their time calling police to file complaints. They were following the laws of the era. But the laws were racist and sexist. To make matters worse, the police looked like the power structure: white and male, so they could not see how their actions supported the power structures. Infusions of people of color and women on police forces have helped to mitigate those problems. Lawsuits challenging these policies have had a positive impact. Finally, legislative action has eliminated the worst of these policies, even though attitudes lag far behind. All of these changes came about because of protest, dissent and community organizing. None of it came about because police, politicians or random voters wishing for change.
Now, a large part of the San Jose community and many people of color, have stated that the arrest rate for their particular communites are too high given their numbers in the population. This fact has been demonstrated repeatedly in newspaper articles, testimony and research. And it is not just high arrest rates—it is way out of line.
Reasonable people, in the interest of fairness, want to know why. An obvious, and historical fact is racism. One effective way to reduce racist behavior is to analyze statistics. The activists have repeadtely asserted that these statistics refer to racist policies. There are other indicators of policy problems. For example, in other communities, the police refer drunks to sobering stations—here they were closed for lack of use. Why? What policy or practice drove this decision?
The list goes on, we need to fearlessly look at the information, statistics. We need to listen to the people who are so stirred up about the arrest rates that they have organized local resistance to these policies and practices.
Obie,
You’re a ghoul. Climb back under the rock you slid out from and take yourself aggrandizing buds with you. We’re tired of all your hype and BS. Run Forest run.
De-Bug people a threat? Agitators? Ahahaha. I’ve stopped in a few times and it’s a bunch of young people letting their creative juices flow. De-Bug provides a space for people to write, paint, draw, discuss, edit, film, create and photograph. I dare anyone to stop in and if you leave still thinking they’re a threat I’ll buy you a beer on a Friday night in Downtwn San Jose so you can feel they kind of safety our officers create.
Getting back to whether “conversate” be a propah American word or not, this just in via email from Detroit:
>How would
> you pronounce this child’s
> name: “Le-a”
> Leah??
> NO
> Lee – A??
> NOPE
> Lay -> a??
NO
> Lei??
> Guess Again
> This child attends a school in Detroit, MI.. Her mother is irate because everyone is prounounciatin’ her name wrong.
It’s pronounced
“LedashA”, When the Mother was
asked about the pronunciation of the name, she said, “the dash don’t be silent.”
SO, if you see something come across your desk like this please remember to pronounce the dash.
If dey axe you why, you be tellin’ dem “the dash don’t be silent”.
So, who be wantin’ to conversate fuhtha ‘bout dat?
Most of the Merc’s readers that support the SJPOA are the folks who made these cops so arrogant in the 1st place. But then again, why would someone chastize people who show you preferential treatment? Asking “San Jose’s Finest, er… Whitest” to be held accountable for their constant prejudicial treatment of minorties is laughable. Accountable to who? Surely oversight by civilians is inefficient because it’s far too fair and would ruin SJPD’s long reputation of tyranny. No the only solution is to switch the Oakland & San Jose Police Departments’ officers. Oakland PD Officers would welcome the dip in crime after being stationed in SJ, and use the downtime to enrich themselves rather than look for trouble (Mexicans/Blacks) And San Jose PD would have no time to profile and harrass citizens because they’d have their hands full with real crimes in Oakland, rather than the POTENTIAL crimes they’re SOOO bent on proactively preventing here in SJ. Heck keep em over there long enough, it might even help downsize the department in this tough economy. Lastly, how can California hand out IOUs and still manage to pay for excessively unnecessary and costly paychecks and equipment costs of pointless futile groups like Santa Clara Special Expensive Marijuana Eradication Task Force. aka A vast waste of resources to prevent crimes that no one cares about while civilians die and are raped nearby. I love this planet.
Put Raj on the police force for the next 25 years. Let him walk the talk.