Well, the committee that has been debating the future of downtown’s nightclub culture and, in the truest sense, the future of downtown itself, seems to have figured it out. Unfortunately, I fear that they have it very, very wrong.
They are attempting to create a 24-hour downtown, which is some kind of a buzz phrase, but they have missed the point of what neighbors, small business people and some officials have been trying to create for the last 30 years. In their attempt to include all interested parties—even the rump of the Gonzales lobbying operation that the nightclub owners have hired—they have been too understanding and too complacent. A great mistake may be on the horizon.
Downtown is in crises. The editorial in Sunday’s Mercury News got it right about the so-called 24-hour quest saying, “We’d settle for a more modest goal: making downtown an area where people over 30 feel comfortable hanging out on weekend nights.” It is simple logic. If three dozen drive-in restaurants were proposed for any neighborhood, it would not be allowed; if three dozen liquor stores were present in any area of the city, it would be denounced and disallowed; yet, three dozen clubs and bars, catering to a young, boisterous and loud clientele, have been allowed to operate on South First, Market and Santa Clara Streets.
How, in the name of God, can this be the city of downtown residents and successful small businesses? Are the rights of such nightclubs and their patrons to come at the expense of those trying to run a business, visit the city center, or sleep through the night? This current situation is the realm of quick-buck shysters, a few slum landlords, and a compliant San Jose Downtown Association. That group’s Executive Director, Scott Knies, has said that he has proposed the most stringent methods to get control of this ruinous situation. He maintains he is not a pawn of the nightclub owners. I hope that is soon proven to be the case. I also hope that the concerned parties will come to their senses.
We need an immediate moratorium on new clubs and the reinstitution of San Jose police officers to monitor each club at the expense of the club owners, not the taxpayers. The simple fact is that if people are being shot and injured by unruly elements from all over the entire region, and it takes millions of dollars of police overtime to patrol the situation, then it must certainly stop. Clear, obvious and, so far, elusive.
Tom, oh my god, everyone is wrong except you. You are kidding I hope. The city cannot
“micro-manage” private business. Let the free market prevail. The bad clubs will be avoided and go out of business. Let the police do their job. They are the experts.
Tom,
the moniker “24 hour city” came from your administration.
So did forcing all nightlife into downtown. You started that as well, remember DB Coopers? Who owns that building?
How about you start getting rid of the alcohol uses in your buildings? Just pay your tenents to leave since it is so easy to go without the “quick bucks”!
San Jose is throwing up!
I agree with Tom McEnery…I propose that when a nightclub shuts down (as is the case with the recently closed Glo on So 1st and San Salvador) that the city not allow a conditional use permit for another nightclub at that location…I was in Original Joe’s last night (Fat Tuesday) and the restaurant was like a ghost town..Most of their regular clientele were avoiding downtown like the plague…40-60 nightclubs in the downtown core is ridiculous…Its time to stop this nonsense…
The “free market” has failed Downtown. Market forces left unchecked have left us with clubs, clubs, clubs, and nothing else. Retail will not follow clubs. Retail follows retail. Until Downtown is seeded with solid major retail anchors, the retail component of the Downtown mix will never happen. You’ll never get the proper mix of residential, retail, and entertainment elements that you desire if you let the “free market” run unchecked. Somewhere, someone has to have a general plan for Downtown. Obviously, we can’t rely on SJDA to create and enforce a general plan, and City Hall is no longer interested. Where do we go from here? The cycle perpetuates itself.
Knies needs to resign. He has said privately time and time again to those of us that the nightclubs will not tolerate a downtown association that tries to seek more city regulation.
Life was better with the old Pavilion.
Knies, do not let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.
If you are such a big advocate for more control, why were you partying so much last year???
Remember us at the next table??
Could part of the problem be that we are building high-rise housing right next to night clubs? I am sure that a few poorly run night clubs take a big toll on the downtown, but aren’t we adding to the problem when we unsensitively place new high-rise housing throughout the downtown. Would there be a problem if three dozen retail businesses wanted to locate in a retail district? I do’nt think so. The problem isn’t placing like businesses close to each other. The problem is placing uncompatable land uses close to eachother. Why restrict the number of night clubs in the downtown? Wouldn’t it be more effective to restrict where they are located in the downtown? Then we need to make sure they follow the law and pay their way. Couldn’t we more effectively control them if they were located in a small area of the downtown, like the Historic Business District? That way not all of the downtown would have to be 24 hours. I would think that it would also make it easier on the police. However this would require night clubs to have soft closings to avoid traffic problems. It would also require that they do not build high-rise housing in the historic business district. They need to get a plan on compatable business-housing placement in the downtown and stick to it. I know there is no one solution to this complex problem, but I’m sure with all the brain power in this city we can figure out a win-win solution. It will just take a little give and take.
Tom McE: There’s a change. Your administration was the first to use the phrase “24 hour downtown” ,as I recall. It has been touted by RDA and Con-Vis ever since as a goal. Everyone kept talking “critical mass” as a way to spend billions on “redevelopment” to lure people to a 24-hour downtown. Now that we are reaching it, out comes the revisionist history. So, other than clubs and 7-11’s, just what stays open late into, or the entire night? Small businesses selling jewelry and clothes, etc. aren’t open all night. Be carfeful what you wish for…
Gil#1—you hit the nail on the head.
Napper # 2 said:“The bad clubs will be avoided and go out of business.” Jeez, what planet do you live on? The “bad clubs” are thriving, filled with out-of-town and local hoodlums. But the cops are partly hamstrung out of fear of some groundless racial profiling charge.
#6: don’t even imagine Scott Kneis will resign that sinecure “job” he holds, at a significant salary.
JMOC and Give take are close to the moving targets that are the cause of the problems.
Bars and clubs have been encouraged to open downtown in our “24 hour” Entertainment zone.
This created a “urban” feel that has attracted the interest of condo developers; which will house 20 and 30 something tenents (who want to be around nightlife).
Suddenly the city decides that nightlife isn’t compatable with condos. so they enlist the police to drive the late night businesses and their customers out.
This police state leads to a lower quality clientele at the surviving businesses and or the businesses need to find clients from other nearby cities.
Which leads to the low quality low class mess we had last night and on most weekend nights.
And yes, JMOC is correct, the problem clubs make fortune off the dirt bag clientele and the good operators struggle to keep any customers.
The police are inlisted to clean up downtown; so they spread the pain to all operators; whether they are good or bad operators.
so in the end the police and thugs win. good operators and condo owners loose.
Downtown is a thug mess as a result!
Tom, it’s absolutely your fault for a 24hr downtown that’s rowdy! In 1982, you called for a 24hr downtown and were not specific about it. You’ve guys spent billions on downtown redevelopment on the name of a “24hr” downtown all along. You wanted or let us to believe that you wanted a 24hr downtown with absolutely no specification, and when we just recently received one, you’re crying foul and complaining about one! You’re absolutely a hyprocrite! Then, you’ve lied to the taxpayers on the pretense of a 24hr downtown. I guess you feel that downtow was so disgraceful at that time, so you felt that you had to deceive us to funnel 2 billion dollars into the downtown redevelopment area. Your true colors are showing now. We might have been taken for a ride. You’re stepping over the progress you made during your tenure. Since we have a 24hr downtown, which may not be to your taste, eat it and think about your goal in the next life. Remember, it stems from your administration, McEnery.
Dear San Jose:
What a concept! McEnery proposes that the club owners pay for their own security. Tom, we can’t have a society where people actually assume responsibility for their own actions. What are you thinking?
Pete Campbell
Neither City Hall, nor high rise residences, nor bars, either funky or fine make a downtown. Big Retail, lots of it, makes a downtown. No movement at all in that direction. Not even any serious discussion, nor is it a Reed Reform. And, the Convention Center is a flop not only because it’s so small but because what is there for the wives to do while the conventioneers are amazing each other with wisdom and knowledge and new stuff you have to have. Tiffanys. Pay them to take over the so-called Rotunda. Mow down some ofthe the historic structures and make a shopping center destination—art galleries, high end furniture stores. Just walk downtown in SF and make a list. Forget the baseball stadium—do a Six Flags on the site—instead of more housing. High rise residences are what you do AFTER you get a downtown, not before. Even the bars are here too soon. San Jose bars are famous in Stockton and points a bit east for mayhem opportunities. As noted, they don’t bother Campbell or SF or Santana Row (except once recently). The previous administration, focussed on the pre-vailing wages available in housing construction, could count on an endless stream of quick and easy projects. Rounding up Big Retail required unavailable thought and planning. The One Big Idea, The Shark Tank, seems to have been a One Off, and makes the No Downtown San Jose look even more remote. George Green
I suspect most of those who have responded spend virtually no time in the downtown late at night so their only knowledge is the reports they read. I can assure you that those reports are well overblown. I was amused to watch the “greatly feared” Mardi Gras events unfold on TV last evening with overhead helicopters filming it all live. There was nobody there. The police were driving on the sidewalks but the crowds were relatively minor. I can tell you first hand that Saturday and Sunday night had much bigger and noisier crowds.
I am not a club owner or a visitor to them. I have no financial investment in these establishments. I am, however, in that neighborhood all the time and often until the wee hours. This is a vastly overstated problem. If one wishes a dynamic urban downtown, it is going to have a seedy element, but that element is not overpowering our poor helpless police force. It is not a threatening and difficult crowd. From my observation, and this spans many years in the heart of “club alley” these crowds are as rowdy as any other young group out for a drink and a dance. Not the pristine Donna Reed show crowd, but certainly no more hostile than most any group of 20-somethings with perhaps one drink more than they needed.
I support the police in most things but do feel they have made their need to shut the department down at night (their words not mine) creates an overly aggressive stand to forcibly move crowds that would dissipate on their own with a little more space – the soft close idea might help.
Downtowns do attract hormonal crowds of men and women. In the midst of a cold spell many a young woman is walking waist bare and micro mini skirted while the men are laughing it up to their hearts delight. Don’t try to eliminate the hormonal tendencies from downtown. This is not the crisis that is being reported.
And these are our citizens we’re talking about. I am amused that everyone has to have come from somewhere else if you don’t approve of them. Some of them might be your own kids. I thought we were building a downtown for everyone, not just those who wish to be in bed at 10.
If you want to know about what is happening downtown, experience it some night. The press reports are vastly exaggerated.
I agree that there are way too many clubs that cater to an obnoxious rowdy element but there is no getting around the fact that current police tactics make the situation much worse. There’s no reason that streets must be closed to law-abiding pedestrians, for example. The cops’ attitude is that any citizen downtown after 9PM is up to no good. This then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The new city council must deal with this, ASAP.
12—Too bad you’ve mixed some nonsense in with a few decent ideas. I assume you are kidding when you say “mow down some of the historic structures” to put in retail. In most cities, they incorporate their historic structures as part of their retail zone and that is what draws people to a downtown. Too many folks in San Jose look at what is left of our historic structures as a nuisance rather than the asset they are. If we don’t use our history as a marketing tool then we deserve the fate we currently have.
Until we learn to appreciate our rich history and the mindset is to demolish historic buildings, we will never achieve a real, live, and vibrant downtown.
“…what is there for the wives to do while the conventioneers are amazing each other…”
Certainly, we can move beyond the Ward and June Cleaver image of americana with wives shopping while their husbands do the work in the big conventions. That old thinking also leads to a suggestion of Tiffany’s. Wrong! If retail is going to work, there does need to be a couple of mid-range anchors with shops to complement. i.e. The Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic along with a Pottery Barn or Bed, Bath & Beyond. Those types of anchors would likely work well with all of the housing, including the new high rises, coming into downtown. It sounds like most of the people posting here do not frequent the many restaurants, bars and clubs downtown. If you have, you would be impressed with what the downtown has become. The reality is that the restaurants and clubs bring in a lot of revenue and are responsible businesses. We can say that and still respect the need for the police to keep the streets safe. They seem to be able to do it in San Diego’s Gaslamp, DC’s Adams Morgan and SF’s North Beach.
Rather than being negative, I think it is most constructive to discuss how additional elements, like retail, can be incorporated. I do agree that I have not heard that discussion from City Hall, yet. I do not find it constructive to make suggestions that are laced with racist undertones regarding what type of music or what type of clothing people should be allowed to wear. Whether we like it or not, what is described as “hip-hop” music is the number one form of music in the country and the 30-somethings and younger want to go where they hear the songs on the radio and on their i-pods. Most of those who are unfamiliar may lump all individuals who may “fit the profile” based on music or based on fashion.
Why don’t all these folks that think a multitude of nightclubs in the downtown area is a such great thing talk to the local San Jose police officers! I’m sure they’d get a different take.
I was totally embarrassed to have the antics of SJ residents (young & old) celebrating Fat Tuesday in downtown SJ hit the national news on TV this a.m.
Shame on you San Jose! Pay attention to the people that have lived here for most of their lives!!
Carol Butler, Native SJosean
C
I would love a 24 hour downtown where I could feel safe in however, the 24 hour downtown only applies to hoodlums and troublemakers.
Notice how all the other cities are shutting down their bad clubs which allows all the punks that went there to come to San Jose. How convenient. I think that if it needs to be a police state to cure the problem, then fine. There needs to be zero tolerance for troublemakers before you can build business again for the people who want to spend their money downtown and not need police intervention.
Any “normal” people avoid downtown like the plague on nights like Fat Tuesday or Cinco de Mayo which leaves me to believe that the ones who do go downtown to clubs or to cruise are just looking for trouble.
I applaud the police for not letting last night get out of hand AGAIN. I mean, what else do you want them to do? They are handed a potentially horrible situation with the crowds and are trying to keep the peace. Glad that everyone is so concerned with the nightclub operators rather than all the other small business owners.
For the yuppie that lives downtown and guzzles beer while he watches roving gangs of kids, and I have seen them from 10pm to 2am, you are a yuppie and could care less about “the overblown” press. I bet you walk around with your IPOD in one ear and your bluetooth in the other.
Try to shave once in a while, ok, HP does enforce a clean look.
No wonder he is calling in sick three days a week.
Those people causing the problems on the street were not customers of the bars or clubs. just a bunch of underage under-raised trash from outside san jose.
San Jose’s nightlife is not what this blog and the police make it to be. we are the safest city in the US and still have a cool urban downtown with a number of great restuarants, bars, clubs, an arena, museums and more.
Get over your attack on nightlife. People of all ages deserve to enjoy downtown.
Many years ago Sandra Escobar took us at Kiwanis on a tour of the night clubs that the redevelopment agency was so proud of allowing on First st. That attracted many folks from around the bay area. Does any one go to Gilroy for the night life? How about Hollister? Try Morgan Hill. Of course not.
I seem to recall that the clubs in Gilroy were shut down.
I thought it was not in our best interest to allow so many clubs in the down town core. So where is the responsibility for this fiasco?
It’s not the Cops, or the patrons that are responsible. It’s the group of people that allowed this situation to mature into a unsavory place to take anyone that visits. We go to San Francisco or Jack London Square or Santana Row.
This situation has touched me in the most horrible way, as my nephew was assulted by one of our trusted protectors. He had go be taken to Emergency. He has filed a complaint, and tragicly has no where to go. He was not killed or maimed for life. What attorney would take this case.
Simply I will leave you with this thought Mr Mayor,. When I have ants in my kitchen,
#1 don’t kill as many as I can
#2 I don’t poison them ,
#3 I don’t call the exterminator.
I simply remove what it is that brings then in. The next morning they are gone. Where they go, perhaps next door er town. Who knows!
The Village Black Smith
On a couple occasions, I’ve asked a few police who patrol DT what they fear most would change DT for the worse in terms of crime, gangs, etc. and they have said, believe it or not …… BART!
Several have told me this. I asked “Why”. They already see dealers and bangers coming from outside the area into DT plying their trade, and changing the dynamics. The police see that a direct connection to the other cites will bring their crime right into DT.
Interesting take from the men on the streets huh?
WOW! Is it too late to sell my house in DT/SJ?
This sort of mindset, no retail in downtown to speak of, nightclubs intended for drunk dumb people from god knows where and a police department that doesn’t racial profile but really REALLY should.
Could you have a place that is more messed up, okay Sunnyvale doesn’t count….
This is Downtown San Jose, why don’t we have basic retail, probably because the owners of the downtown empty buildings are so greedy only profanity would describe their greed and it’s only now that we are bringing more residential into the core, all we can hope for is free market to take hold to build basic retail in the core, RDA get out of the way please….
Why don’t we have managed nightclubs, probably because San Jose is known for welcoming the crowds that don’t spend money but throw rocks and slash cars.
Let’s face it- if you live in Gilroy and you’re going out to the City, that’s SJ….. why would people from LG or Campbell come to SJ, the two don’t mix, if you want LG and Campbell money in SJ then the city needs to act like they want their money!
And the police need to go to Michael Scott’s sensitivity training, it would be a start….Is it just in SJ that all the cops act like a part of the human anatomy that disposes of byproducts? You can have a police presence and not act like that body part….
Thank you to SJI for the opportunity to vent!
#12 George Green
“Tear down our historic buildings so we can replace them with retail.” You sound like the director of our Urban Renewal Dept. in the 60’s and 70’s. We demolished our historic buildings so retail could return from the suburbs. We sat with vacant city blocks for over 25 years. The downtown looked like post war Europe, only they rebuilt their historic structures and got on their feet much faster.
We have so few visitors and so little retail in our downtown because some idiots half a century ago shared your vision. If we don’t learn from the past mistakes we are destined to repeat them.
Asian Voter #25 is correct that BART-to-SJ is a bad, over designed and misrouted project. Bay Rail Alliance’s proposal
http://www.bayrailalliance.org/caltrain_metro_east
is a much better alternative.
It’s too bad that the real advocates of public transit are completely ignored by the officials.
If you like downtown’s club scene then support
Bring Angry Rowdy Thugs ( BART) to Downtown San Jose
Any truth to the rumor that Larry Stone was in Vegas lobbying to bring next year’s NBA All-Star weekend to San Jose?
#22 You’re right on the mark with your comments about BART and documented increases in crime!!!
The Murky News and Chronicle both ran stories last week about the Bay Area Air Quality Management District (BAAQMD), the Metropolitan Transportation Commission (MTC) and BART not paying for unlimited free fares for the upcoming Spare the Area Days this year because of the terrible experience from last year. Ridership was up but not amongst the expected regular workforce commuters. Both papers documented that there was a spike in the number of crimes committed by youths that were reported on BART and the vicinity area of the BART stations last year during the all day free fare Spare the Air days. The Murky News even highlighted the case of one So. SF teen who took BART to the East Bay because he was bored, ditched school and thought it would be fun to committ a couple of felonies along the way. The story noted that MTC and BART ,as a result of this experience, will only do free fares only during the peak commute hours for this year’s Spare the Air Days to discourage kids from using BART.
I really believe that BART will only exacerbate the problems of the thug parades on Fat Tuesday, Cinco de Mayo, and Devil’s Night/Halloween.
To begin with, BART to SJ is fatally flawed! The official BART alignment is in the wrong place because of Gonzo’s inferiority complex and hardon to be just like SF. Rather than go downtown from the Fremont-Milpitas and Eastside, the more logical route would be to follow employment and commute patterns and go down Montague Express to the North San Jose, Santa Clara, and Sunnyvale employment centers. Ask the throngs of east bay commuters in the gridlocked 880/101 commute where they’re going and they’ll tell you its North SJ, Santa Clara, and Sunnyvale—NOT the frigging Downtown. All BART will do is allow the Richmond, Oakland, San Leandro, and Union City G’s and their wannabee half-pint juvees easier access to the suburban streets of San Jose. Don’t believe me, ask the Anti-graffitti and Anti-gang police units in those cities. They’ll tell you the real story about the migrating graffiti taggers and their experiences arresting the wide ranging thugs.
Mayor Reed and Dave Coretese please wake up and put an end to the BART to Downtown SJ boondoggle before its too late. The money were pouring down that rat hole could be better spent on more important community priorities like parks, swim centers, staffing community centers, libraries, street maintenance, and increased community policing & code enforcement.
This argument has beaten to death. The problem is not the number of clubs. The problem is the clientele that the clubs go after. There are cities all over America with the same amount of clubs in one neighborhood. Go to Nashville or Austin, where everything’s is based on live music, instead of ghetto clubs. Do you see 300 cops driving around? No.
Go back to 1992 when the SoFA district was a rocking place. You had Ajax, Marsugi’s, Cactus, and F/X. Every night there was live music. There was no violence, no stabbings, no shootings, no need for 300 cops and helicopters with floodlights, etc.
Then the property owners decided to open ghetto nightclubs instead. The result: stabbings, shootings, 300 cops and helicopters with floodlights. When it was all rock ‘n’ roll, heavy metal, punk, weird jazz and alternative music, it was great. What happened to Mardi Gras is the same thing that happened to the SoFA Street Fair. A bunch of gangbanger dumbshits from the east side came in and ruined it for every else.
Fed Up—
So the McEnery term, which ended 17 years ago is to blame for downtown now? Wow, that is a stretch…..
Gee, a lot of misinformation on my time as mayor and my view of downtown. It was always oriented to the neighborhoods and small businesses there – that is where I live & sm. bus. are the backbone of DT – then and now, and were too often forgotten. San Pedro Sq. is made up of busineses who have put in major investment and their blood and sweat to make DT a wonderful place. They are not the quick buck artists and flim flammers. Quite the contrary. Restaurants are not nighclubs. All these are the backbone of DT, from O’Flaherty’s to APStumps to Peggy Sue’s. TMcE
#30 “You know Who” hit downtowns current problems right on the nail! We need more piano bars, lounges and clubs that cater to jazz, alternative rock, electronica, true soul and R&B AND LESS dance clubs offering Hip Hop and Gangzta rap (far less)! I remember the original SoFA Street Fair…IT WAS AWESOME! Then the idiots and the radio stations came…
What is wrong with SJ, why can’t you people handle Mardi Gras? I was in Downtown San Diego tuesday night for their Mardi Gras celebration which attracts over 30,000 people (3X SJ’s) and they allow you to drink alcohol in the streets and there are never problems down here. They have a parade and throw beads at you and it’s awesome and so much fun. They close off the Gaslmap Quarter, charge people $20 to get in, and you have to be 21 to get in too. So maybe they should charge money for the event then that would weed out all the hooligans that ruin it for everyone else. The $$ they make at Mardi Gras in San Diego goes to charities and good causes, San Jose should look to do the same.
To the Sam Liccardo Staff and Chuck Reed Staff of this city, why don’t you turn this problem into a money making opportunity? Seriously where is your leadership? I am former resident of Downtown, and two years ago I was robbed during the Mardi Gras Celebration. I decided to stay home last year, and this year I live in San Francisco. But I wanted to visit San Jose for Mardi Gras, because this city where I spent 5 years of my life needs to have events that attracts some tourism, visitors, and events that place a star on its map. I understand that a few Adult trouble makers exist. This is the capital of Silicon Valley, use TECHNOLOGY IE why not keep a database of past years trouble makers and not allow them back in the future if they start trouble? Sell Tickets to entry into the downtown Area, Charge for every car driven, fill the HOTELS. City Staff show leadership and turn this problem into an attraction.
Anthony Dominguez, can you please state your definition of “Gangzta rap” please. Just curious.
Anthony, I don’t know when the last time you went out was, but “electronica” and “alternative rock”? Please. Those do not and would not work downtown. No one listens to that stuff any more, and certainly not to dance. The reason why those old venues went out of business is because they lost the ability to attract the number of crowds necessary to profit. As “you know who” says, you have to go back to 1992 to when SOFA was a rocking place. That is when rock music reigned. Times and musical/cultural interests have changed. If those clubs could have remained profitable in their original forms, they would have stayed open. I am not saying a glut of homogenous clubs playing hip-hop is ideal, but it makes sense given the current trends.
Here we go again, believing that a vibrant Downtown is a necessity. It must be an ego thing because I’m quite happy with Valley Fair, Santana Row and other businesses, both small and large, scattered throughout San Jose. What is it about Downtown that causes us to pour a couple of billion dollars into it?! After all, there are other Council Districts, let’s not forget about them.
It’s disturbing to know there are people like”You Know Who” in this community. Equally disturbing is the aftermath along Santa Clara St. after Fat Tuesday.
Blame, Blame, Blame!!!
Pete Campbell, give us the owners of the properties on which these myrid of night clubs reside. Secondly, the owners of the clubs themselves. That would be great reading, here! Perhaps then the Merc could publish for general public information. Let’s start from the top down.
Fridays, the farmers Market closes, and the drug dealers set up shop after dark. 24 hour shopping. Nice! RDA!
D.O.A.
# 35, Definition please:
If someone has to explain to you what “Gangzta rap” is, you are either looking to start trouble, or have been living under a rock for the last 25 years.
#35, Just in case you really don’t know what is referred to as “Gangzta rap”; think of it as the opposite of Gene Kelley’s “Singing in the Rain”; or Tiny Tim’s “Tip Toe Through the Tulips”. Or, how about Barney the dinosaur’s “The itsy bitsy Spider”
Hate to break it to you but the editorial in the Mercury news soundly endorses the policies that are proposed by the downtown association and the downtown working group – soft closings, hiring the responsible hospitality institute and incorporating the computerized ID scanner to keep troublemakers out- not to mention keeping restaurants open until 3 am to change the business mix and feed bar clientele.
You can complain all you want to about nightclubs and their patrons but I notice you are not offering any positive solutions to solve anything- just the same old tired pomposity.
Just Wondering, I don’t think you or Anthony Dominguez can give an accurate description of “Gangzta rap” (until reading Anthony’s post, I had never seen it spelled with a “z”… typically, it’s spelled “gangsta”). I am very well aware of what hip-hop music is about, and I can distinguish gangsta rap from it.
Sorry, Tom McE, but that dog won’t hunt. Your administration was indeed the frist to openly advocate a 24-hour downtown. Why else pour a couple of billion dollars into a moribund location? Remember the counterpoint 1976-2006 photos I e-mailed you?
And to say you live in a “neighborhood” is only technically correct, in that we all live in a neighborhood unles you have moved from your home a few short blocks from the family holdings @ San Pedro Square.
Is the rumor true that you or your your family corporation bought the building housing that new club, Taste, where the old Laundry Works was? That’s a club, isn’t it? It’s had numerous short-term operators since the Laundry Works went belly up after a very long run.
But when you say “They are attempting to create a 24-hour downtown, which is some kind of a buzz phrase,”, most of us remember that that “buz phrase” was coined while you were at the helm. Be careful what you wish for, law of unintended consequences, etc.
I do agree with you, however, that your San Pedro Square holdings are by good honest folks who are there for the long haul and cause few, if any, problems.
#41 definition, is that you, Downtown Brown?
In any case, I seem to remember something about a rose by any other name…
#36—
Completely dead wrong on all accounts. Since I can tell that you’re not even there, here we go:
>>>“electronica” and “alternative rock”? Please. Those do not and would not work downtown.
Excuse me? Have you ever even been downtown? What do you think is going on in the few venues that actually have live music currently? I don’t know what you mean when you say “alternative rock” because that term was dead twenty years ago. And when I say “live music” I don’t mean a bunch of idiots doing classic rock covers in a British pub. I’m talking about original bands, not cover bands.
Back in the original SoFA days, it was a rocking scene and San Jose was a destination place for national touring bands. Now it is not and probably never will be ever again. They all go to SF and Santa Cruz, not here.
>>>No one listens to that stuff any more, and certainly not to dance
??? I don’t know what part of the social spectrum you’re from, but there exist many people who desire to experience local rock bands in a bar and have some drinks with no intention of “dancing.” Except for slam “dancing” at punk shows when I kid, i’ve never had any inclination to “dance” to any kind of music.
>>>Times and musical/cultural interests have changed. If those clubs could have remained profitable in their original forms, they would have stayed open.
That is not at all what happened, and I can tell that you weren’t even there. It was the property owners who ruined that scene, basically, whether it was jacking the rents up or some other nonsense. They knew they could make a lot more money with ghetto clubs instead, so that’s what they did.
#37—-
>>>It’s disturbing to know there are people like”You Know Who” in this community.
What was disturbing about that post? Please tell me, because you’ve got me completely confused.
#39—-
>>>Just in case you really don’t know what is referred to as “Gangzta rap”; think of it as the opposite of Gene Kelley’s “Singing in the Rain”; or Tiny Tim’s “Tip Toe Through the Tulips”
If the bars downtown would just play Tiny TIm LPs all night, then there would be no violence whatsoever.
You know who—-
If Tiny Tim LP’s were strictly played, there would be no one downtown. So, I guess you’re right. No one there= no violence.
I enjoy live music and I enjoy bands. But, I was referring to the terms used by Anthony Dominguez… i.e. “electronica” and “alternative rock”. That made no sense to me. I agree that increased live music would be aboon to downtown. Particularly jazz and blues, as well as good rockin’ bands. Even good funk/r&b bands that mix in hip-hop style would appeal to a broad range of people, but would not attract the violent crowd.
And, we can’t go back to the original SoFa days. (I always thought calling it the SoFa district was a further sign of SJ’s inferiority complex to SF, playing off Soma)
A bar with a band with people hanging out and having a few beers will not justify the current rents that are there now, unfortunately. That’s why JJ’s, out away from dt, is one of the places to survive. However, places like Smoke, Fahrenheit, Poor House Bistro, Sofa Lounge, and others have creatively used live music in conjunction with their other functions. I think this is positive and I hope for more live music permits downtown in the future so that every place doesn’t have to rely on only dj dancing. Otherwise, a live music district could work out well, if the city and neighbors were on board.
Just wondering II, I am not downtown brown, James Rowen, reality check or any other nemesis of yours you like to label people by when you choose to ignore a question posed to you and brush it off. I simply asked you what your definition of gangsta rap is? You can answer it or you can say that you really don’t know? But, don’t just claim that I am someone I’m not and ignore the question after belittling it.
#45 “I always thought calling it the SoFA district was a further sign of SJ’s inferiority complex to SF, playing off Soma.”
I guess Denver, with LoDo, and NYC, with SoHo, also feel inferior to SF…give us a break Mr. 80’s!! Also, “Electronica” is alive and well in the form of House music, Down Tempo, Chill, and New Jazz (all you Directv subscribers, check out channel 857 XM Chill for details). All Electronic genre’s would make excellent sounds for a downtown bar or lounge (see Cardiff Lounge in Campbell). “Alternative Rock”?…rest in peace.
Taking it back to the 80’s said: “I always thought calling it the SoFa district was a further sign of SJ’s inferiority complex to SF, playing off Soma.”
Actually, “Soma” is a sign of SF’s inferiority complex to NY, playing off “SoHo.” So SoFa is double desperation.
Acutally Hugh and others,
The inferiority complex are those of you of live your life’s snipping on what you don’t understand.
SF and SJ and NY are all distinct places with there own identities. SoMA, SoHo and SoFA were just marketing ideas of the time. hopefully timeless marketing ideas. having identifiable nieghborhoods would be a lot more fun than the boring endless sprawl we live in now.
Problem with san jose in general we are a working class bedroom community of engineers and cheap labor. both don’t have much style, grace or ideas. People in the true urban city centers have that; with some issues of course.
But my advice is stop measuring your privates with others. I’m sure it’s big enough and your not inferior.
San Jose, inferior? Everyone in the world wants to be here, to drink at the fountain of entrepreneurship, to dream of building a better life – inferior? This is certainly a laughable concept – and delutional. We are unique. TMcE
#50
Tom,
I wish it were true, but my feeling is that we are not there yet. Last Sunday, 2/18/07, the Chronicle had an article on Frisco (had to say it) being at the center of a new tech boom. The gist of it is that companies are moving to SF since that is where the high-tech employees live, and they do not want to commute to Palo Alto, let alone San Jose.
Personally, I think they are nuts for wanting to work/live in a city, but to each their own. However, I am a little irritated, and disappointed, that San Jose is not attracting these companies and employees.
“For technology companies, San Francisco is—once again—the place to be. Proximity to top workers, competitive lease prices and an eclectic lifestyle has made the city’s downtown an irresistible draw for many Internet and software companies.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/18/BUGQ8O5OE31.DTL&hw=software+san+francisco&sn=014&sc=465
#51 BlueFox,
I agree. It is nuts that San Jose is not trying to attract these companies. We have the housing, entertainment, and transportation systems that internet workers are looking for.
A few weeks ago Steve Tedesco started laying out a vision for the Diridon area, bringing software start-ups to the train station “like SoMa in San Francisco”.
Perhaps we can change the trend on March 6.
Tom,
I agree that San Jose is certainly not inferior. That is why I love it here. But, there is a complex among some that feel we live in SF’s shadow. I, for one, do not desire to be SF or NY or any other city. But, can undertsand the big city appeal of living in SF and NY. Although SF is smaller than SJ, it has a bigger feel. But, some of those same qualities that are appealing are dampered when you quickly realize that SF also has big city drawbacks. I enjoy visiting SF, but I enjoy it mostly because I live in SJ and can always come home. I actually enjoy listening to their snobbery. It gives me a good laugh when I drive back home.
#51 Blue Fox,
Nice post. However, because the SF Chronicle claims that Frisco is “the center of a new tech boom” doesn’t make it necessarily so (talk about tooting your own horn!). Have the Merc make the same claim about San Jose and let’s call it a day! By the way, Downtown San Jose has two tech giants in Adobe, BEA systems (coming soon) and, according to todays Mercury Opinion, and number of smaller software company’s and start ups. Just off the top of my head, I can’t name any tech giants or software company’s in Frisco (love using the “F” word!).
#46, Definition. I did answer your question “Think of it as the opposite” When Gene Kelley was singing in the rain, he didn’t have to use terms like “Bitches and Holes” to describe his happiness. You know what I’m saying? Can you imaging how Dorothy would sound if she sang “Somewhere over the Rainbow” and she said “Birds can fly then why in the F… can’t I”?
Do you see how fast the negative connotation takes over? That’s all I’m saying…
#55 Just Wondering—
Well, that definition does not point out modern day reality. If you look at the Top 20 Billboard songs right now, at least 14 of them include artists who qualify as gangsta rap under your definition. That would apply to the artist individually or who they choose to collaborate with to make a hot song. I’m sure you would call Ludacris and Snoop Dogg gangsta rappers. But they are pretty mainstream now, selling numerous products. They are pop artists. So are a number of other artists who would make Gene Kelly cringe. And, as a 35 year old professional, I enjoy many artists you would find abhorrent. I also agree that a lot of the art in music has been obliterated by current pop music standards. However, overall, the difference in what is acceptable demonstrates a change in times and a change in tastes. Trust me, I have heard it all from my own father.
The challenge is to create an environment that allows for places that appeal to the masses without creating an unsafe environment for everyone else. Being critical of 21st Century music will not get us there.
I am surprised no one on this thread has recognized the fact that a large percentage of patrons to these bars and clubs are students from SJSU. Of course they will be aiming at a younger audience; that’s a lot of who lives right there and wants to get drunk. However, the students are diverse and many are bored with going out because its all the same. What DTSJ needs is variety, not every bar catering to the stupid “hyphy” movement. Theres nothing wrong with having a great nightlife scene in your downtown, but you can’t disenfranchise people who want something a little different every now and then. Also, the idea about putting in retail is GREAT. If some of the popular chain stores who rather chose to set up in Santana Row (Barnes & Noble, Urban Outfitters, etc) would have instead decided on DTSJ, it would have a completely different feel.
#13 “I can assure you that those reports are well overblown.” Tell that to the business owners who suffered a combined $100,000 in damage two miles from downtown, caused by factions of crowds that originated in the downtown. By the way, check the arrests from that night—lots of out-of-towners, from of all places—that sleepy little town of Gilroy. They had a real good time smashing windows and slashing tires along E. Santa Clara St. near Hwy 101.