Once again the familiar refrain is being heard about the type of city and downtown that we wish to have in San Jose. There have been many opinions, studies and assumptions and all of them have eventually arrived at the conclusion that to have a community in the central city that is worthy of a real downtown, what is needed is a concentration of people, families and, ergo, a real set of neighborhoods. It is simple and, so far in our time, elusive.
We have built the downtown nucleus surrounded by very strong neighborhoods with vibrant families—Naglee Park, the Rose Garden, Shasta Hanchett, Vendome, Northside and many others. And, as only the economy can determine, high rises are now coming to our city’s downtown. Although untested as to their market, they seem to be sprouting like picket fences in many parts of our emerging skyline. We are witnessing the beginning of the creation of an environment where such an economy can give us the shoppers and, hopefully, retail to finally take its place as the last and most difficult part of the downtown puzzle that also includes financial, cultural, governmental and residential elements.
Yet, one thing is plainly true: we cannot have a twenty-four hour downtown of nightclubs and think that we can have neighborhoods of residents too. In the last eight years, the type and quality of these nightclubs has taken a savage and dangerous turn for the worse. The Downtown Association, once the advocate of a truly balanced downtown, has become the chief advocate for more and more late night venues, the most recent being for 18-year olds and up. When they have not been proponents, they have been enablers. They seem to miss the concept of the forest while they see each tree as vital; the disconnect is palpable.
Quite a state of affairs, where those charged with protecting and promoting our downtown do not understand that people will not live with screaming music and sirens until three in the morning inside their luxury condominiums. It is as obvious as the blare of music being succeeded by floodlights and bullhorns in the SOFA District. This is not the formula for anything but a twenty-four hour mess.
Where are these highrises of which you speak? It can’t be the stubby 12-18 story buildings in San Jose. Real highrises are at least 30 stories, the late-great World Trade Center was 110 [and, sadly won’t be rebuilt thanks to George Pataki] Nothing in Santa Clara County comes close.
As for Downtown, the first necessary change is the way the police conduct themselves downtown on busy nights. For example, on May 5 last year several downtown streets were closed by the police forcing residents wishing to walk home to detour blocks out of their way. This is hardly a way to attract people to live in or near downtown.
For #1 – sounds like you represent some of these nightclubs – try this: Only the ones where over 10 people have been shot or badly injured have to leave. They can have a short period to pack up. More reasonable for you now? TMcE
I think you just made T MACS point. their are to many nightclubs downtown that have drunken people wondering the streets after closing time, what do you want the police to do just let them act stupid? so if you close the bad ones and get real business in there that would solve alot of problems. as we all know the downtown needs alot of things but more night clubs, and restaurants are not on the top of the list .
Name them. I have lived downtown for about 9 years as a homeowner. Which places have so many problems? I haven’t noticed any problem places.
And no, I am not tied to any downtown business. Just a customer.
By the way, you sound like a misguided rep of the condo builders.
This gets right back to the disconnect between downtown boosters and most of the residents of San Jose.
For three decades now those with a financial interest in a vibrant downtown have made one attempt after another to create what was until Tom McE’s post today the desired end of a 24 hour downtown. Most people don’t go shopping after midnight, so the only way to create a 24 hour downtown is via clubs and restaurants. The downsides of that have been debated here before.
However, most residents of San Jose who don’t work downtown don’t even like to come downtown, let alone would they live there. They are suburbanites by choice. But the downtown boosters are undeterred. They mostly still don’t get it—except for those relatively few boosters, and the youngish crowd that inhabits the clubs, nobody cares.
Sure, there are exceptions like the Rep (oops, they were about to go under), the Opera ( a fine example of fiscal responsibility), and a few other venues the geezers like myself attend now and then.
It will be interesting to see who, if anyone, fills these mid-rises being built. I was thinking about the one by the Rep myself, but the night noise factor is a major consideration. If they don’t have double paned sound attenuating windows, Fuggedaboutit!
I just read that Barry Swenson and the PAC finally reached a truce on the block across from the St. James Park Drug Emporium For The Homeless, where the abandoned Christian Science Church and the Oasis are, for a 12 and an 18 stroy building of condos, with the long-abandoned church being saved (for what? Who’s going to put any $$ into it? The PAC?) I also noticed that the existing surface parking that occupies most of that block will apparently be gone. Great! Even less parking for the courts and the edge of downtown.
So how much will they cost? I can observe the homeless and the drug salesman in St. James Park from the comfort of my very own condo. I’ll be in earshot (of gunshots) of the hip hop club on San Pedro that changes names four times/year. Wow!
No large grocery store. Thankfully the E. Santa Clara Street Albertsons—clearly the worst supermarket in the Western Hemisphere—closed; but that leaves only the smallish Zanotto’s, which charges at least 25% more than any other local market. So, off to Midtown Safeway, or to the Whole Paycheck, when it opens on The Alameda, for groceries.
Personally, I’d like to see a vibrant downtown, with some mom and pop retail, like an expanded Lincoln Avenue with lots of thriving businesses, and a lot of pedestrians. National Big Box retailers seems a pipe dream to me. The lack of density and the parking “situation” spells doom for any large store downtown, and perhaps for small stores, as well, except for local customers who walk there.
I don’t want to see a lot of RDA money being poured into that black hole for money any longer. I do want to see the City of San Jose get out of the way of small business owners willing to take a chance on downtown. And dump “labor peace” at government buildings. If people want to join a labor union, fine. But don’t make it a condition precedent for tenancy at The Taj Gonzal or any other government edifice.
Whew! Peace…OUT.
I always thought that it was DB Coopers’s that began the massive nightclub permit maddness. Seemed that once that club proved successful, others jumped in for the action and the city kept issuing permits. At that time, it also appeared that there was a finite number of club hoppers, and usually they’d support a club until the next one with a new environment opened. This may have changed to some degree, I don’t know, I won’t venture driving outside of Naglee Park.
Downtown is finally becoming well built-out like it was in the fall of 1973 before the demolition machine came out in force to destroy the bulk of historical structures. In 1973, downtown was finally looking good, in terms of development, and all they had to do is renovate those old buildings and keep the decent of job of building up the Park Center Financial Plaza as well as several buildings going up on as follows: 13 story buildings Santa Clara and 2nd St.(2), Crocker Bank building on Santa Clara and Market, right where Harts used to be, labor union- retirement building on Market, and lastly, the P.G.E building on Almaden Ave. They could have added several more office towers and condo towers to fill out the rest of downtown. The taxpayers would’ve saved a bundle, not paying the 3 billion dollars to revitalize it. You see, those old buildings could have been converted to hotels, housing and entertainment complex at a cost of 5 hundred million dollars. Right now, it’s almost the exact same predicatement, minus the retail. We’re at the point of near fully developed downtown. We must not tear down buildings. It’s a 3 decade nightmare we dare not repeat. People are asking for more parking, and that’s dangerous because the city would be pressured to raze the buildings to make way for surface parking lots. The city is being tempted by some crooney developers to tear down existing buildings to make way for future projects that would never materialize. Let’s not screw up again because downtown is still not as big as it was in the fall of ‘73. We should be much bigger than we were in that period, but we’re not because of the enormous devastation of older buildings, including the seven story building where the Faimont Plaza sits. The demolition machine must never return. We were looking like European cities with healthy number of towers in the fall of 1973. We must do it right and recover from the fiasco of city planning and be better than ever before. Let’s do it right this time! People, during that time, were retarded in light of urban-renewal garbage. Now, I hope people today have brains to get it right this time and make downtown great.
In case I wasn’t clear above, let me reiteriate that last May, the cops were closing streets way before closing time. There were no riots that justified such heavy-handed. Just some folks who wanted to walk home who were sent out of their way for no reason. Hopefully, our new mayor can get with the police chief and improve the tactics for the future..
This is all so “chicken-and-egg”. In order to attract business, you have to have residents. But residents won’t buy domiciles unless there’s sufficient infrastructure for the necessities of life. Businesses won’t locate downtown unless there are shoppers, but shoppers won’t go downtown unless there are places to shop. Business owners are reluctant to be the first to go into a new retail area for fear of being hung out to dry. That’s why a big-box anchor has always been a target of Downtown developers.
I learned this the hard way managing a business in the Pavilion. Merely opening a shopping center (and giving them a light rail system to get there) doesn’t guarantee sufficient reasoning to get people to shop.
Gary, are you sure you’re talking about the same downtown? My recollection of 1973 was that it had pretty much had hit bottom where it stayed for more than a decade, a ghost town with spooky record stores run by surly lesbians amid desolately vacant blocks of empty storefronts.
You need to go back at least another ten years, to when the urban renewal craze—there has never been a more crazed movement before or since—blew up block after block of SJ’s downtown. Some of the precious parking lots in that area today are the result of urban renewal’s ruthless destruction and here we are 40+ years later and nothing’s been renewed but the blacktop and striping on land that once likely provided a home to a historic or architecturally significant building that would have provided a unique home for some kind of equally unique retailer.
Even under Tom’s watch we lost buildings like the Wells Fargo (Garden City) Bank where the first commercial radio broadcast happened, an early midrise building much more attractive than the Knight Ridder/Fairmont Plaza building that replaced it. There has simply never been any emphasis on history in this town and as a result we get no respect a city of this size should (witness the Giants & 49er flaps past and present) and have a downtown that is sterile, artificial and contrived. How is that EVER supposed to be a draw???
One thing people can’t do is compare the club scene at Santana Row with the one downtown. The respective clientele couldn’t be more polarized and the need for cops at SR is pretty much non-existent. I’m not saying we need the police behavior that’s currently in place downtown but don’t question that there is a need for some kind of presence. If you’ve got thugs circulating there, then you’re going to need cops, that’s all there is to that. Eliminate the clubs like the one on N. San Pedro that JMO so aptly described and you’ll eliminate the thugs and the overbearing behavior of the police.
Cripes, I get so damn tired of hearing what Downtown should be and what we, the taxpayers, should be perfectly willing to foot the bill for, no matter the cost. Personally, I don’t give a flying #$%* about artificially supporting new Downtown infrastructure just because our politicians, the RDA and some insecure City residents (read inferiority complex) feel the need to do so.
If anyone wants to change the nature of the downtown nightclub scene then start advocating the enforcement of existing laws.
Rather than complain about legally operated businesses let’s go after the patrons who break the law arriving and departing these establishments. Additionally, applying existing laws to any individual on a San Jose street will make both downtown, and the rest of the city, a better place.
So, just what is this magic law that will make San Jose better? It is the law that makes it illegal to operate a loud car stereo. Let’s read what the CHP has to say about this issue.
“Loud car stereo. Illegal if heard more than 50 feet from the vehicle (27007 VC). ”
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/streetlegal.html
If the police would use this tool then San Jose would be a much better place to live, work, and play.
JMO’C
For once I agree with you. Your #6 hits the nail on the head.
San Jose and downtown businesses made many decisions that discourage thousands of potential customers from spending our money downtown
We have many other attractive places that compete for our money – Campbell, Santana Row, Los Gatos, Willow Glen, The Alameda, Naglee Park, Mountain View, Palo Alto etc with business associations making areas attractive, free parking, keep problem people out, many events and are happy to see us
Downtown Business Association’s ” nothing is wrong ” attitude and permitting ” Thug Clubs ” next to San Pedro Square and other popular places means potential paying customers go elsewhere to spend our money
Yes, excessive weekend riot police make downtown unattractive but even if San Jose took excessive police out of downtown today, downtown is still unattractive because of “Thug Club ” customers, lack of free parking and poor customer service attitudes
Downtown business and property owners need to decide if you want “Thug Club“ customers or thousands of customers now going to other places
Stop blaming – city, police, redevelopment, your potential customers for not spending money downtown, even many downtown residents go elsewhere to spend their money – right Single Gal
Nothing is wrong with your potential customers and if most San Jose residents never went downtown they would miss little except problems
Downtown businesses are responsible for FIXING downtown’s “Thug Club ” and many problems Making downtown attractive to potential customers – No one else will
Don’t expect San Jose to spend much more money downtown – San Jose doesn’t money to waste on downtown and many other neglected neighborhoods deserve it before downtown, so better get used to spending your money and doing things on your own to attract ciustomers
Wake up downtown businesses need us, We don’t need downtown businesses
Absolutely right – really tired of all downtown whiners expecting taxpayers to spent more taxes for downtown to benefit them – most of public never goes downtown
What a waste of taxpayers millions and still is not fixed while we hear more excuses and whining about what went on 20-30 years ago, after billions spent
When are downtown business tax subsidies going to stop? How about January 2007?
Hey #15,
I own downtown businesses; and I have no say in policies of parking, parking enforcement, and policing. What makes you think that small business owners have a say in these policies? City staff and elected officials make the decisions
We don’t have an interest in parking fees, and we don’t recieve any value in the current parking fee structure. Your correct, charging for parking does not benifit anybody but the city employees and politicians who like padding the general fund with the fees.
As for the police / thug factor. Why would a normal non thug person come downtown if they are just going to be treated like a criminal at night.
we need to change the structure of how downtown is policed. then the businesses can market and sell to more high end patrons.
If one get’s so damn tired of hearing how downtown San Jose should be, DON’T READ THIS SITE! It’s that simple. #6, those of us who are avid watchers of Home and Garden Television (HGTV) can tell you that there’s a nationwide movement of residences returning from the suburbs to live in the city; the urban living experience of downtown condos and lofts (see Denvers LoDo or San Diego’s Gaslamp District for examples). The segment of the population that’s returning to the urban core are mostly empty-nesters (who are down-sizing from their suburban castles) and single professionals. It is these people that will occupy the future high-rises of our downtown. Add to this housing ground floor retail, and I truly feel that the environment will be created for true urban living and downtown shopping. As for the nightclub scene, I believe in a more sophisticated sound that caters to a more sophisticated crowd; ie Jazz, Blues, downtempo house music, smooth R&B. You bring in nightclubs that blast “Gangsta” Rap and woman-demeaning Hip-Hop, and you’re going to have problems, plain and simple. Imagine these places closing at 4am! And no, I’m not a racist, as such venues attract “thugery” from all ethnic backgrounds.
Like it or not, San Jose will never be considered a great city unless it has a great downtown. There is no law that says San Jose has to become a great city or that we have to spend public money to make it great, but I for one would like to see it be all that it can be. We can learn a lot from our past failures in the downtown. It definatly will take some public funding but it must be done wisely. All projects must have a return on investment. It is also clear that we must build upon all that is uniquely San Jose, and that starts with utilizing all of our historic resources. The several highrise projects that are started or about to start (like the one at Pellier Park or on St. James Square or next to the Peralta Adobe, or the one that is going in at the site of the old Palamar Ballroom) will all bring people downtown. Those projects should bring desirable types to the area. The undesirables will still be there but will make up a much smaller percentage of the population. Hopefully there will be stregnth in numbers and they will be able to take back areas like St. James Park. To solve our problem will young nightclub goers, all we have to do is learn from places like New York and Las Vegas. How do they do it, with way more people?
1) Many tell me downtown business association is not working with neighborhood leaders to improve downtown
Chamber promotes Silicon Valley but not their hometown
Have downtown small business owners asked 2 business groups why they are not effectively working with downtown neighborhoods and community groups to help solve downtown problems?
2) How much money does city make from downtown parking etc and is it more or less than the millions spend every year by city on downtown events, promotions etc?
Do downtown business owners have any say in where city spends money downtown for all the public events and do you make money from the events and if not why are they being done?
3) Took out of town friends downtown to San Pedro Square and after seeing riot police said they would not go downtown again, so will in future will take friends elsewhere – more lost customers
Have you asked Mayor Reed to reduce excessive weekend riot police which discourages downtown customers?
4) If downtown does not improve soon move to better location as hundreds of others have
Tom,
The nightclubs, bars and restaurants were approved via expensive and lengthy public process. Now you say they need to leave. Who compensates them?
Who will compensate your bar / restaurant tenents? areyou going to pay them to close?
What about tenents of condos that want to live in a restaurant / nightclub district?
Santana Row has move residents living in thier restaurant / bar / nighclub district. They have had no problem getting tenents. Why would downtown have a problem?
By the way, the sirens and police action are based on policy not environmental need. The police create more of the mess then you will ever admit.
We need to all work together to improve all of San Jose not just downtown and apply common sense standards to measure the best use of our tax dollars that gets the best return on our tax investment in increased tax revenues and decent paying long term jobs
If future downtown tax investments do not provide a good return then stop spending tax money on downtown and spend it on neighborhood business districts that are underfunded and where we can increase jobs and tax revenues for smaller investment
Downtown?, Questions to Small Business Owner and Small Business Owner – all have made good comments. If we all work together we can solve our jobs and tax revenue challenges and improving all of San Jose
The growth of San José’s downtown should be anchored just like the suburbs i.e. Oakridge, Eastridge and all the other shopping centers and strip malls outside of downtown. Build a strip mall 12-15 stories vertical with Bloomingdales’ on the top 4 or 5 floors. Does San José have enough people moving into downtown along with enough suburb folks coming downtown to shop and more importantly not shop at the mall down the street? Is the demographic make-up (approx. 30% each Caucasian, Asian & Hispanic) enough to support high-end downtown shops? Does San José want to buy underwear at high department stores and shops? And two largest employers are:
· County of Santa Clara – 14,800
· Cisco Systems – 13,400
Fugal shoppers can go to San José Marketplace on Coleman – http://www.cousinsproperties.com/retail/index/sjmc.cfm. When is San José going to live up to its name – Capital of Silicon Valley?
First, JMO’C comes real close to the real problem for anyone living downtown – the “homeless”. How many people go into Willow Glen or Los Gatos and worry about a bum or mentally ill person bothering them? None!
Downtown has become and remains the dumping ground of our societie’s problem people. Mayor Tom, just in your neighborhood alone you have at least 6 half-way houses. Just look at a map of Megan’s Law folks and it’s easy to see where they live. It doesn’t give a home owner a warm feeling looking at these folks and wondering if they’re going to be a problem. JMO’C talks about Saint James park. What a wonderful sight – a children’s play ground on one side and the bum and drug emporium on the other.
Cities that want to have the look and feel of Willow Glen and Los Gatos need to make themselves safe and not worry about strange people bothering them.
In the face of the ACLU, I have no idea how to remove the troubled folks but without doing so downtown will never thrive for residents.
Second, lose the parking meters and charging for parking lots. Please name one mall that charges for regular parking? The gain in sales tax will more than make up for lost meter revenue. Duh!
And for the folks that want to blame the police for DT problems – get real – how many cops hang around Santana Row or Los Gatos. Why? Please don’t claim the cops came first. Like Mayor Tom says, “the ones where over 10 people have been shot or badly injured have to leave.”
“Like Mayor Tom says, “the ones where over 10 people have been shot or badly injured have to leave.”
Can tom or someone please tell me which places those are? I’d like to know so I don’t go to them.
By the way, regarding the police; I can’t get my 30 something friends to come down town. They are intimidated by the police presence. They only will go to santana row, los gatos or campbell.
So how do you explain the relationship of police to who is willing to come downtown?
Condo owner
Look # 29 is right. but that is the trick we cannot get on the same page here,I hope Mr Reed will help?
I look @ downtown and think who put the carny rides in by the fairmont hotel what a smart thing to do, DUH! & the race sorry I just can’t get over that whole thing but I digress.
you can’t tell me that these things help any small business. It just gives them another reason to leave, Xmas in the park is fine but that mess around the hotel is a joke and whoever gave the ok for that should be made to eat from the food stands once a day and then be fired. where’s CINDY?
AD#18 said:” It is these people that will occupy the future high-rises of our downtown. Add to this housing ground floor retail, and I truly feel that the environment will be created for true urban living and downtown shopping.”
I agree with you on those points. But my point was that these folks make up a miniscule percentage of S Jay population, and they will for at least a generation or two. The VAST MAJORITY of folks who live in S Jay want the suburban experience and absolutely could not care less about downtown revival, or downtown at all, for that matter.
“1) Many tell me downtown business association is not working with neighborhood leaders to improve downtown
Chamber promotes Silicon Valley but not their hometown
Have downtown small business owners asked 2 business groups why they are not effectively working with downtown neighborhoods and community groups to help solve downtown problems? “
Answer
The Chamber of Commerce and the downtown association are heavily funded by the RDA and city of San Jose. So Pat Dando and Scott Kinesse answer to the RDA and City instead of the businesses that pay fees to be members. We don’t have a voice; but both orgs pretend to be our voice.
“2) How much money does city make from downtown parking etc and is it more or less than the millions spend every year by city on downtown events, promotions etc?
Do downtown business owners have any say in where city spends money downtown for all the public events and do you make money from the events and if not why are they being done? “
Answer:
both parking and the events are a joke and of no real value to any businesses. The parking fees have been collected for many years. All of the money has gone to outside downtown city projects. Parking fees to downtown are a scam!!!!
the events don’t do much either. They bring thugs and free loaders that don’t spend a cent anywhere else in downtown.
“3) Took out of town friends downtown to San Pedro Square and after seeing riot police said they would not go downtown again, so will in future will take friends elsewhere – more lost customers
Have you asked Mayor Reed to reduce excessive weekend riot police which discourages downtown customers? “
the police are killing downtown. They intimidate families and nice people. Thugs and such enjoy the nightly confrontation with police.
Chuck read has admitted he has never been downtown after dark. so I’m not sure what he is supposed to do. :-(
Here is proof, but a good ending to the anti business culture of the police in san jose:
The is an update message from Scott of the downtown association. Imagine, the police are even afraid of burritos and tacos late night in downtown! This is an example of what you go through to do business in downtown.
From Scott:
The San Jose Planning Commission last night voted unanimously to reject a Planning Dept. staff recommendation to deny Special Use Permits to La Victoria Taqueria for both their downtown restaurants to stay open until 3 a.m. The owner, Nicandro Barrita, requested Downtown Association support at the Planning Director hearing in October. At that hearing, the police dept. requested denial, and the planning staff obliged. I encouraged Nick to appeal to the Planning Commission (along with Dennis King of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce).
The Commissioners last night were articulate, direct and correct in their support of the business. Commissioner James Zito made the motions (there were separate Special Use Permits required for both the San Carlos St. and Santa Clara St. restaurants) saying he wants to encourage different late night uses downtown, especially ones like La Victoria that do not serve alcohol. Commissioner Ash Kalra tactfully questioned generic police dept. statistics that represented the planning dept. rationale for denying the permits in the first place, pointing out that police used stats during a 24 hour period including hours when La Victoria was not open (but Jack in the Box, right next door, was); for vague purposes (“suspicious vehicles,” “disturbances”) that were not necessarily associated with La Victoria; and the fact the police dept. counted calls for service stats against La Victoria if they were “in the general vicinity.” Several commissioners said it made sense to them to give downtown nightclub patrons a place to have a meal and sober up a bit before driving home. After the police lieutenant rebutted the commissioners by saying they do not understand the effects of alcohol since most La Victoria late night/early morning customers will have had 8-10 drinks and will still be “twice the legal limit at 3 a.m. just with a full belly,” Commissioner Bob Dhillon had the best line of the night when he drolly suggested “a friendly amendment” to the motion so the restaurant could be open until 4 a.m. in order to help the police.
In my testimony last night, I said the Downtown Association will include our restaurant-only members now open to 3 a.m. — Pita Pit, Iguanas, La Victoria, Emmas (?), Muchos (?)—in our Night Culture committee and better coordinate their security issues with the police entertainment zone officers along with our bars and clubs.
Special acknowledgement to board member Don Gagliardi, who just happened to be at the Planning Commission on another matter, for throwing down a card and speaking spontaneously in favor of late night burritos smothered in spicy, garlicly orange sauce. Don, bring some mints to the meeting tomorrow morning!
WOW, does it sound like we have a problem with the police? I think so. I live downtown, work downtown and have a downtown business(NOT a nightclub)…..which means I have invested money downtown. The police are intent on driving people out of town at night with their RIOT squads.
We will never have people buying condo’s downtown when they have to pass over homeless in the streets to get to the sales office, smell urine at their doorsteps and fight off drug dealers infesting our lightrail system. Yes everyone, this is happening in broad daylight, not at night time when the police are everywhere. Broad daylight when the police are nowhere to be found.
How many of the Globe condo’s have been sold? I would be surprised if any have with their mobile showroom in the middle of Fountain Alley. Lets make the mobile home a police department office and make them work days, take nights off.
There are tons of homeless and mentally ill people up in Union Square (and SF in general); but it WORKS in terms of high-end shopping and as a destination for tourists/Bay Area residents alike. I always find it humerous as mental cases yell out fake prophecies walking up Powell Street, all while regular folk shop and mingle in droves. My point is that we should stop using the “homeless” as an excuse of why downtown SJ can’t be great. Give us a vibrant destination place, and I assure you that us regular folk will re-take downtown San Jose in droves.
Has anyone ever wondered what would happen with downtown if we quit meddling with it and just let it find its own way as determined by market forces and citizen demand? Every time we try to ‘force’ or ‘jumpstart’ something it just fails and waste a lot of money then fingerpoint afterwards. The hamletesque questioning of the identity of downtown also smacks of hidden bigotry because the disparagement of ‘thugs’ and ‘clubs’ sounds like code for racist and agist sensibilities.
It sounds like it’s not so much public funding that’s needed Downtown, but a change in public policy.
Remove the shackles from placing business Downtown, remove anti-business tax burdens, recall the riot squads.
Give people a reason to go Downtown more than once a year and they’ll go.
#29 If we want to give late night drunks time to sober up, perhaps we should keep the new main library open till 3 am instead. That way we would not only have fewer early morning drunk drivers on downtown streets, we would have more well read late night partiers. Don’t you think they would rather have a book checked out to them than have a judge throw the book at them? Better yet, in this high tech town, can’t we come up with a device that limits the number of drinks sold to them, or I guess expecting them to drink responsibly in the first place is out of the question?
Mark T., Yep, it’s the same downtown you’re talking about. I know the downtown of ‘73 was a ghost town and in despair, but they had not yet demolish those old buildings. They started doing that beginning in 1974 as evidence by those old buildings standing where Fairmont now stands. The city razed 3 old buildings, where the Federal buildings now stand, in 1975. Yeah, they razed the homes to the west in 1966, which was fine, because they were building Park Center Plaza beginning in 1968, and I think that is what you’re alluding to. After 1975, they went on destroying more old buildings on First and San Fernando St., also on Second and San Fernando. It happened around 1977. Therefore, in 1977 and 1978, downtown was left with alot of holes and empty lots especially from Market St. to 4th St. with more surface lots created over the years through 1990. Just because downtown was a ghost town, it did not give these goons an excuse to tear down the old buildings and go ahead with rediculous urban renewal b.s.. All they had to do was change zoning rules which would’ve force developers to focus on downtown and add few more towers to the west of Market and along Santa Clara St. They would have rehabilitated those old buildings and turn downtown into a thriving community. I hope I’m very clear now.
#24 Responses by Small Business Owner
I knew it was messed up, but not how badly
San Jose will never support local business or get downtown right if Downtown Association and Chamber work for and take directions from city government, redevelopment and Silicon Valley Leadership Group corporations who pay their bills and have different goals and interests than yours
Bluntly – Expecting others to do your work or get what you need is naive or for fool’s
San Jose’s small and neighborhood businesses should not expect anything positive to happen until they stop depending on others and get organized
#33 just the facts,
The issue related to operation of businesses till 3am or 24 hours for that matter is not related to intoxicated people. It’s related to allowing businesses to operate.
Many people who are not drunk eat at all hours of the day and night. Why shouldn’t a business be allowed to operate during a 24 hour time frame. If there is a demand; why should downtown businesses not be allowed to meet it while businesses in the rest of the city are allowed to service the demand?
As for alcohol service to patrons; I am all for responsible service and consumption. There is nothing to gain and everything to risk / lose when you over-serve an obviously intoxicated person.
There are plenty of laws that regulate consumption of alcohol and I don’t know of any really troublesome operators in downtown (related to over-serice). Any that are trouble spots; don’t seem to last very long.
Gary, re #34 we are on the same page. This town has been cursed with misguided leadership when it comes to preservation of downtown’s character. There is no more personality there anymore. It’s all contrived and that’s why it’s such a failure. There’s not even enough left to turn it into an “old town” scene and let the new downtown spring up on N. 1st now that the legal issues around that plan have been sorted out.
I’m afraid our downtown is a “lost” cause because almost the whole place has been lost due to bad planning and bad decisions by the various council bodies over the years, including Tom’s.
As has been stated above, I say give it up, get out of the dowtown revival business and let it develop on its own. The city is just bogging things down with all of its rules and regulations. Cripes, nobody can even put up a neon sign anymore. How is that supposed to spell lively? It’s really pathetic and there’s only one place to point the finger—city hall.
Tom,
I always shake my head at your pomposity in these blogs, and no more then when you start to speak of policing issues. I am curious: who do you think is going to move to these condos downtown??
Take a look at the size of the condos being offered, and their amenities. I don’t see any playgrounds in the public plans for the globe or nestled in next to Mesa’s swimming pools. That’s because….drum roll please….these condos are NOT for families! These one and two bedroom condos will serve as homes for young-ish professionals, singletons much like Single Gal, and people moving downtown after their children move out of the suburban family nest.
Once you get that critical mass of residents, the services, “other” night spots, and retail comes. People move to urban areas to be in the center of it all- to have access to restaurants, to be able to walk to the theatre, and yes, to be able to walk down and have a cocktail. They are not moving down here because they thought, for some reason, that it would be just as quiet as their home in Almaden Valley was. I would love to see some positivity and some SOLUTIONS in your blogs, instead of your windbag / death knell for downtown. Your song is old, Tom.
#36 Bar Owner
You say it is about allowing businesses to operate. Isn’t that the same argument the pimps made in the 70’s and early 80’s when Tom Mc Enery and Co. cleaned up the downtown? If it is not about making a buck by getting a bunch of young people drunk, then let’s make the downtown “dry” and keep all businesses open 24hours. Think of all the taxpayer dollars we would save on extra police.
Otis,
The business that was looking to sell products until 3am does not sell alcohol at all.
In reference to pimps and prostitution; I sell food and beverage products that are legal and perfectly legimate to offer via a business.
If you feel this city should put legitimate business out of business to satisfiy your personal needs; just let us know how much we are going to be paid to shut down.
Prohibition didn’t work very well the first time around. In fact it made organized crime a pile of money. So good luck on your dream of helping organized crime! And it must be nice to live your life so high up on that horse!
Otis # 39 said: “Isn’t that the same argument the pimps made in the 70’s and early 80’s when Tom Mc Enery and Co. cleaned up the downtown? “
Wow, how did I miss the “cleanup” of downtown in the ‘70’s and early ‘80’s? So when did it GET dirty again, Otis?
Joe McNamara got rid of the hookers in what is now called SoFA. But they just moved over to The Alameda, into houses, nail salons, and massage parlors, as well as on the streets. But it ain’t nearly as bad as it was on South First Back in the Day.
Downtowns are by nature not clean. And to my recollection, there has never been a clean First and Santa Clara.
The police waste our city’s money and resources for thier own reasons. There is no reason to have over 50 riot police downtown from 11pm to 3am on weekends. They have made the policies related to this misguided waste.
The officers are recieving overtime pay to look at women and harass bar, restaurant and nightclub patrons.
Do you think the made of need for police is lining thier pockets?
Tom,
I am really tired of hearing people bash the Police for doing what they’re being directed to do on weekends downtown. Please, take a moment to inform these bloggers how this militia came to be, and let us know your thoughts on how to stop it. Please include your ideas on how these club owners can start being held accountable for the types of low life clientele, they are attracting too.
Secondly, JMO, I agree with everything you’ve said. I wouldn’t move downtown the way it is. I think that our city needs shops that I’d be interested in patronizing. I don’t see a good florist shop, or a nice hair and nail salon, or a nice clothes store. There are no restaurants that offer dinner and dancing for people over 40. I don’t see a nice Bistro, or coffee shop/bookstore where I’d go with a friend to relax. I don’t even see a Kragen’s store. And don’t get me started on parking downtown!
I recently had a very long conversation with a Police Officer who is just as frustrated with the night closure problems as the rest of us. All of this began because a well meaning/self serving Independent Police Auditor, created this problem because she was concerned about appearance. How the public would perceive business owners hiring Police Officers to stand outside their clubs to keep the peace. The outcome of this concerned, overpaid Independent Police Auditor, who by the way earns SIX figures, is what you are presently seeing in downtown on weekends.
My third thought is this, since when do parents allow kids out until 3-4 a.m.? I find it odd that people complain that Police are pulling over drunk, loud, underage kids out cruising, tying up traffic, and then screaming Police profiling. I guess if you have 90% of ONE race out at that time of night, then you’d never get that it ISN’T Police, racial profiling! My God, does anyone take responsibility for their part in things? I guess not.
Finally, let me say this, these Police Officers are being mandated to act like a small army downtown. Whomever is making this decision, is depriving the rest of our city vital Police services. I attended a recent forum wherein, over 200 people complained about lack of Police response, or unacceptable Police response times to their calls for assistance. I guess victims will always lack rights, and tax payers can jump off the nearest bridge, if they expect timely Police service in their time of need, after paying their taxes. It’s time for someone to get to the bottom of who exactly is making these Officers stand around like guards at the Royal Palace in England. (Their correct title escapes me at the moment.)
I’d also like to see someone audit the Police Department expenditures for communication systems costing millions, but fail to work. A million plus dollar helicopter that is being repaired more than flying above, and explain why Police Officers are made to drive prisoners to Valley Med all day, sit there for 6-10 hours, while people are robbed, raped, assaulted, and killed! Let’s not build a medical clinic in the jail, and save time and money!
And why are Police Officers being ripped off by the City’s General Fund, and event holders. If you really want to understand WHY there aren’t enough Police Officers, look at the budget! And then call the Mayor and Council and demand that Police budgets be made a priority.
Think about this, a Code Enforcement Officer, a Council assistant, Gonzales’s Budget Director make more than a Police Officer. No one shots at them, they get a personal life, and they don’t put their lives on the line on a daily basis, for a large group of uneducated ingrates ~
Old Sod – you say that the police are mandated to act like a small army downtown. Yes they are and they are mandated by the Police Chief, he is the one making that decision. I have gone to way too many community and city meetings where this topic is discussed, the only people I ever hear say we need the Riot squad out is the POLICE. Business owners, RDA, CIty Council, Arts Groups, Residents all say the police are ruining downtowns chances of ever becoming a destination for everyone. If they spent more time doing community policing during the day and less time scaring customers away and sending them to Santana Row we would have the downtown a lot of us envision.
As far as places for the over 40 crowd, Toons started as a Piano bar and did not make it, Pete’s Jazz club didn’t make it a year….there would be more places like this downtown if customers came to them.
Old Sod,
the police need to get to the table and work with businesses (including nightclubs and bars) and come up with a plan to make things work for everyone.
the current chief does not want to do this. He uses downtown and downtown nightlife as his reason for needing 600 more officers. Which is a joke! a lie! and a dam Shame!
#44. I agree with most of what you’ve said, but I still think business owners need to step up to the plate. They are allowing people to drink past the legal limit, just to make a buck! These drunks create serious problems, and that is part of why the Police are there. The Police are also controlling traffic, as these clubs draw a lot of young, party people who cruise, and cause traffic congestion.
To place the blame solely on the Police is not correct. It all started with an Independent Auditor who went too far to keep a huge pay check, and ended in the lap of the Police Chief. I agree, he went too far on Police presence in downtown.
I personally think downtown is ugly, and has no place I want to go. Santana Row is an overpriced, badly planned yuppie mall. The parking is a joke, and the one or two decent restaurants I’d eat at, are always too packed to get in to.
The bottom line is that the City really needs to attract the right kind of businesses, and as Tom said, become more business friendly, and dump labor peace. The Union is a joke anyway. People at Safeway get joke wages. Employees pay $400.00, up front, to get in the Union, and pay monthly dues. Most can’t even pay the rent on their wages. I’d like to know what Safeway employees are getting for all this money the Union is robbing them of!
DG#44 said:“there would be more places like this downtown if customers came to them.”
Unfortunately, that begs the question. Why don’t they come? The thugs, particularly @ the ever-changing-its name club @ San Pedro & St. James, and along Santa Clara Street. That club should be shut down permanantly, and its owner barred from club ownership in the entire county, since he clearly is irresponsible.
Everyone walks on eggshells about racial profiling. Well, if 75%+ of people attending hip hop clubs are of one race, I’d suggest to all, especially Mr. Callender, that it ain’t profiling to single them out for questioning.
Since we’ve gotten to the point with this PC crap that everyone’s afraid to say anything, we have TSA workers frisking 85 year old grandmothers using walkers @ airports; and we have to compile some stupid statistics to prove the police are equal opportunity traffic stoppers.
The thugs now have far more rights than the victims, the cops are handcuffed by PC bullsh*t, the courts grant defendants all sorts of rights, while victims and their families take it in the shorts.
I’d imagine the same small percentage of troublemakers cause the vast majority of the problems. Concentrate on them The cops downtown know who they are. Let them do their work.
It certainly isn’t the final solution, but if you harass these losers enough, they go elsewhere and become someone else’s problem until someone can figure out how to eliminate it entirely. But don’t hold your breath on that ever happening.
Old Sod #45 said: “The parking is a joke, and the one or two decent restaurants I’d eat at, are always too packed to get in to. “
Reminds me of the old Yogi Bera line—“It’s too crowded, so nobody goes there any more.”
JMO, re: #47 I couldn’t have said it better but suspect finfan might be able to put a good spin on your statements.
When is PC going to go out of style and kicking appropriate ass come back in? If they can tear down a crack house in order to eradicate the problem (I’ve seen where this has been done, even if not in SJ), why can’t they tear down that motley little box of a thug club on N. San Pedro? I know there is some Boccardo ownership associated with that block. Maybe somebody needs to put the pressure on them if they’re the owners of that place?
Mr. Tom McEnery (post #3):
An unfortunate exception to this is the upcoming closing of the SoFA lounge, a great club and one that seems to invite the broad clientele that downtown should be looking for after hours. I have heard the city is shutting them down after December 31 for some kind of building code thing from 30 years ago. This is puzzling to me and really very sad. I have had many great evenings at the various bar venues that have been up there since the late 70’s/early 80’s– except for the Behive. I can remember seeing John Fahey and Dana Carvey up there years ago in it’s early days as one of the only comedy/jazz venues in the area. If I remember right, both the San Jose Rep and San Jose Stage had productions up there. SoFA has been a great venue and the place feels really comfortable. I think it is (or soon to be was) the best bar space in downtown. This is not a hopeful sign for downtown.
Regarding the police in downtown after hours – they are over-reacting in their heavy gear with the lights flashing and blocked off streets. The heavy-handed presence is likely inviting the trouble makers. The sight of all this as you approach the area late at night is much more likely to be intimidating the kind of visitors that downtown should have.
Disappointed #56: More detail please re potential closing of SoFa Lounge.
Some RDA or other bureaucratic nonsense, for sure. If we’re talking about the same place, it’s the space above Eulipia that has operated as a mostly great venue for a couple of decades.
I don’t know of any specific problems there. If there have been, they need to be addressed, but they nowhere near create the problems of the hip hop and salsa clubs downtown.
But I do know of multiple problems for a couple of decades at what is now called Club Miami Beach. If there is some city crackdown on troublemsome places, they need to start @ Club Miami Beach (which may haved changed its name YET AGAIN)since I last looked. That venue, and its ownerm,needto be banned from The entire county for life.
Tom McE 3
you sound like you represent some of the condo
developers. Are you selling your property at San
Pedro Sqaure and lining your pockets at the expense of
small businesses??
Some of you sound ridiculous. Your friends are scared to go downtown? A guy I know is too much of a prude to shop at Eastridge and even goes downtown practically every weekend. I’ve never heard a bad thing about it from him. Those of you complaining about the “thugs” definitely belong on at Santana Row, on the other side of town. You can safely associate with all the midwest transplants, new age parents that go home at 10PM and various other white-bread dullards. The downtown police presence itself is telling you all that it’s unsafe down there. Statistics about the safety of our city have been overblown, but I still feel much safer on the east side than I do walking through most of San Francisco, and yet look how that place thrives on the yuppie dollar all through the night.