On May 12, 2008, the Santa Clara County District Attorney’s office dropped the charges against the last of the “Eastside Six”—a group that faced numerous misdemeanors and felonies from an incident on Cinco de Mayo, 2006. But don’t let the romantic lefty throwback name fool you; these were not a bunch of armed Black Panthers planning a City Hall takeover, but, rather, peaceful community activists who were only armed with cameras and bullhorns.
They went out that night to participate in an immigrants’ rights speak-out, and to “copwatch,” a strategy used for decades across the country to reduce police brutality by monitoring law enforcement and community interaction. And there seemed to be no better time and place to be copwatching than on that Cinco de Mayo (a holiday known for high arrest rates and complaints of police abuse), just days after the largest immigrants’ rights marches in US history, on the corner of Story and King in East San Jose. But in hindsight, the plan was lacking in one critical way: who would protect the copwatchers?
Brian Helmle, 29, was one of six people who were arrested that night. A cabinet apprentice by trade, Helmle was trained by civil rights attorneys in the appropriate and legal method of copwatching, and had “watched” numerous times before in San Jose. According to Helmle, that evening started as expected. As every Cinco de Mayo, a large celebratory crowd came out to the corner of Story and King. Helmle and the other Eastside Sixers had a small sound system and played music while local poets and hip hop artists gave performances. Neighboring businesses gave their support by passing out free drink samples.
Police then came in riot gear, giving orders to disperse, while almost instantaneously going after the crowd physically, with batons in hand. According to Helmle, the police went after those with cameras and bullhorns first, a claim substantiated by who got arrested that night—six copwatchers. Helmle was arrested, and originally charged with failure to disperse, resisting arrest, rioting, and lynching. The felony lynching charge came from when Helmle was accused of holding on to a friend who was scared of being hit by a baton. The rationale was that lynching referred to when mobs would remove someone from police custody, and “lynch” them in their own vigilantism. Helmle was actually just trying to make sure his friend didn’t get hurt.
Five others were also arrested that night. Four, for various reasons, plead out to misdemeanors, and another Eastside Sixer took the case to trial and lost, and is completing community service hours. Helmle was the last case, which resulted in a dismissal two years after the fact. While Helmle can finally let out a sigh of relief after two years of not knowing if he is going to jail or not, the case of the Eastside Six, although perhaps not a lighting rod like a police shooting, does expose several points of concern.
First off: the battle mentally. Beginning an interaction with riot control tactics of the San Jose police department on Cinco de Mayo only fuels fear and suspicion among those who have had negative experiences with police, and further builds the wall between community and law enforcement. The copwatch practice is actually used in cities as a way to diffuse tension and build trust in the same spirit as any effort to keep a spotlight on public agencies. If there is no police misconduct, why worry about being watched?
The other issue comes when arrests meet the DA’s office. There is a commonly used tactic of overcharging as a way to intimidate defendants into taking deals. Pleading no contest to a resisting arrest charge doesn’t seem so bad when you are facing a felony lynching charge for example. But, of course, no one is looking to the DA’s office to make things easy on defendants. Defendants look to their own attorneys, which will be a public defender by all statistical measure (95 percent of all cases are represented by public defenders statewide.) If public defenders are encouraging clients to plea in order to move on to the next folder on their mountain of cases, please believe that is exactly what is going to happen. Helmle was unusual in that he had a private attorney, one that worked with him, and was anxious to fight for his client. It is perhaps a coincidence that Helmle was the only one with a private attorney among the Eastside Six, and he was the only one whose charges were dropped, but not likely.
Helmle and the rest of the Eastside Six continue to be community activists and have refused to allow the charges stemming from Cinco de Mayo 2006 to put a damper on their political beliefs. Only time will tell whether they, or others similar activists, will be arrested again for having them in San Jose.
Coming a week after Jack’s thread about unnecessary and inappropriate CdeM roadblocks downtown, I’m inclined to believe that SJPD overreacted in this case.
Buy video cameras. Lots of them. Teach people how to use them. ‘Nuff said.
Raj,
Do you have any documentation, video tapes, photos of this we can view? Is the Mercury News going to write about this?
Pull the SJPD out of downtown for Cinco de Mayo. Put them back in the entire city and not concentrated downtown trying to sort out hundreds of thousands of individuals as to who intends to cause problems and who is being peaceful. It is impossible given the numbers. Let the downtown residents, business owners and patrons come and go if they can, and let them confront the troublemakers with whatever tactics are appropriate and legal. Let them place the trouble makers under citizens arrest and hold them for the police. With the police out of downtown, groups like Copwatch and the ACLU, as well as the residents and business owners should be happy. The rest of the city will be happy too if they get the police services they have paid taxes for rather than having downtown suck up these services.
Let’s everybody in the herd let out a big moo and follow Raj Jayadev’s trail of cow pies to the big fertile field on the Far Left, where we can all be safe from reason and reality. This enchanting field is where people remain innocent even after they plead guilty (as in this case and the recent Bernie Ward case), where the DA’s judgement has credibility only when dropping charges, and where everyone in law enforcement, even the minorities, hate all minorities.
SJI readers: if your sympathies lay with the Cinco crowd then I urge you to either join them next year or invite them to your neighborhood. But before you make your decision, I will remind you what happened a few years ago when the cops backed-off and allowed these “peaceful” celebrants to police themselves: they rioted along East Santa Clara Street and trashed dozens of businesses. (For some strange reason, no “copwatcher” videos surfaced after the riots.)
But now on to Raj’s new hero, this lame “Brain” Helmie (or is it Brian Helme?). Who would’ve ever thought that, when faced with an overwhelmingly large crowd celebrating an occasion that is typically marked with a riot, the police might engage in tactics or conduct that could, when recorded by a biased photographer, be politically useful to cop-haters? When will we ever get the absolute perfection we expect from our cops?
How astute of Helmie, this would-be arbiter of right and wrong, to figure out exactly where he needed to get his camera if he was going to catch the cops being brutal. A less astute observer of human nature might have wasted his time watching a SJ Giants crowd disperse, or awaiting trouble at the Arena after a Bocelli concert. But not “Brain” Helmie. He knew that crowds and cops were not enough. He knew he needed more. He needed a crowd with a proven track record of violence and destruction. In other words, he needed Mexicans. Lots of ‘em. And not just any Mexicans. He couldn’t waste his time with the law-abiding majority, like the thousands who are peaceably dispersed from the Flea Market every week. No, what he needed were the bottom-feeders; the punks who don’t care about a criminal record; the gangbangers and losers who can’t hold jobs or get dates; the troublemakers who don’t have to go to work or church in the morning.
“Brain” Helmie must’ve been champing at the bit as Cinco de Mayo approached. He’d done his homework, his racial profiling. He knew to wait until dark, after all the good celebrants had gone home. And there he was, surrounded by San Jose’s worst and hoping to get something to discredit San Jose’s finest. And for all the hoopla, it seems he got nothing. No cops, no headlines, no martyrdom.
But Raj Jayadev, at least he got you. And now you can be lame together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjs2SPmz7MY
This is the arrest of Jake Gelender of Berkeley Copwatch who had come down to San Jose to help train the copwatchers who were going to go record police behavior on Cinco de Mayo. He was able to get away from the initial police attack at Story and King and was arrested at Story and Bell Harbor as you can hear the on the tape.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e781eCGtYvc&feature=related
This is footage from Story and King where the other five of us were arrested. It was shot by another copwatcher who managed to avoid arrest.
While I believe that reasonable minds can disagree about how much to curtail civil liberties in the name of safety, the right of community members to observe and report on the conduct of the police and other government employees is indispensable in a democracy. Also, I would question whose safety and interests are being protected by behavior such as what you see in the clips listed above. Do you feel safer? Should young people feel safer? Should people of color feel safer?
I am encouraged when I talk to people about the Eastside 6 case and how excited they are once they learn that there is an onlookers policy that allows the public to observe and record the police if they are concerned about police behavior.
San Jose POLICE CHIEF HAS GOT TO GOOOO! We need change in this city! People open your eyes! Enough is enough! All you hear coming out of his mouth is excuses.
HOW ABOUT THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX for once!!! Take a look and really see how “your” streets are being managed. People are making legit complaints and they are being overlooked! Its time, the problems are not just in Downtown, but all over our City, even in affluent neighborhoods!
We do not need “SHOCK & AWE” tactics in our City. We need people with common sense!
Yes, use force when needed, I believe that there many good cops out there! And I also believe that leadership starts at the top!
OYE – open your eyes
Thank you, Brian, for providing the evidence to put frustrated finfan and the other Bill O’Reilly wannabes in their place. A man was forced to the ground and arrested for videotaping. That’s the 21st century we all saw coming, right? With this embarrassing police force, maybe we really do deserve the moniker of “Little L.A.”
#6,
Reasonable minds can disagree about a lot of things, but when it comes to your “right” to ignore dispersal orders or interfere with the police as they carry out their duties, then we’ve exited the realm of disagreement and entered into the jurisdiction of the law. You don’t get to declare yourself off-limits to dispersal orders. You don’t have the right to confront or challenge officers because you disagree with their tactics. There are forums for such objections, but neither you nor the Berkeley creeps who trained you are at all interested in due process because due process doesn’t serve your political purposes.
You claim to question the validity of the police tactics but you offer no evidence of your qualifications or expertise in such matters. And since being a jerk in public will not quality you as a crowd control expert in court, you shouldn’t try to pass yourself off as one here on SJI.
You ask: “Should young people of color feel safer?” I ask you, do young people of color feel safe when they attend the Flea Market, or the Cinco de Mayo parade, or their local high school? There are cops overseeing every one of those gatherings, yet neither the color of the youngsters’ skin nor the behavior of the police seems to be in question.
I’m old enough to remember the Community Alert Patrol from my younger days out in the Eastside. What I remember is that they did nothing to address the problems of decent people, but instead did everything they could to frame the police while defending the very people—the Cholo punks and all-night party crowd —who were bringing misery every weekend to the good people of Eastside San Jose.
You want to help people of color? Start photographing the gangbangers who are KILLING young people of color and help the police get them off the street. Otherwise, please head up to Berkeley and join the people who know everything (except how to avoid being jacked during dinner by robbers of color).
Everybody needs to go back and read this post:
http://www.sanjoseinside.com/sji/blog/entries/sjpd_roadblocks_responsible_for_cinco_de_mayo_chaos/
Maybe those “copwatch” folks had it coming because they ignored the dispersal order, or maybe the cops were being overzealous, I don’t know because I wasn’t there.
But I HAVE witnessed the police overkill downtown on CdeM, where law abiding pedestrians trying to walk home are herded like cattle blocks out of their way while law abiding drivers are forbidden to enter downtown at all. The cops do this despite the city’s push to bring residents into those expensive new condos downtown.
So, when I read Raj Jayadev’s post about police excess, I overlook his obvious left-wing bias because I’ve seen how SJPD treats innocent bystanders downtown. In this argument, where I might normally agree with the pro-police/finfan position, SJPD has no credibility. Something needs to change at SJPD.
Consider
See the following:
http://www.siliconvalleydebug.com/story/060107/images/pyleactionweb/pyleaction3.jpg
http://www.siliconvalleydebug.com/story/060107/stories/pyleaction.html
Anyone picking up a Jerry Springer vibe here?
A gang fashion show? Vintage Springer.
Uneducated bigmouths with microphones? Springer.
And Springer-esque humor. “we then gave a gift to Nancy Pyle —a white-tee”
A “white-tee”. Get it? “whitey”. Oh man.
Luckily San Jose city hall had the good sense not to have folding chairs on the premises!
Might as well arrest residents in San José who participate in a neighborhood watch program!
I don’t see why police should have any objection to being photographed while going about their duties. If they are doing their job properly, then being photographed will only serve as vindication.
I would go as far as to say that perhaps our local government should pass legislation affirming the right of citizens to photograph uniformed police at any time or place (not undercover officers). Then we might have fewer Rodney King-like incidents.
I have had occasion to deal with the SJPD a few times, and I found them responsive and professional. However, I have some friends with darker skin than mine who have had some less fortunate experiences.
A few years ago I attempted to photograph some policemen in another nearby town who were operating an illegal scam, and while they didn’t actually use force (I don’t know how much my skin color had to do with that), they certainly pushed threats as close as they could to reality to prevent me from taking photos—until they had hastily removed the evidence. At that point they announced I was free to take as many photos as I wanted.
#6-Brian Helmle,
I watched the videos you posted with an open mind, including the one you shot cruising. I think your video says it all for me. I want to point out some things I saw in your videos that lead me to believe that the Police had a good reason to take an aggressive position with you and others because the behaviors I saw in your own videos show reckless behaviors. They are as follows:
A motorcycle driving down a sidewalk meant for pedestrians.
Large flags that blew into the vision of both on coming traffic and people behind them which in my opinion are very dangerous.
People blocking traffic by jumping put of their cars dancing, walking into the middle of the street with large flags blocking drivers view.
People driving down the streets with their doors open and people hanging out of them, some were sitting on top of the cars while driving.
Cars parked in people’s yards on the grass.
People sitting on the curb in the middle of parked cars so no one could see them.
These things definitely create a public safety hazard and are irresponsible and reckless.
As to the arrest video, the Police continually asked you to back up and leave. They did not threaten to beat you, smash your camera, or arrest you until you continually ignored their orders. They did not beat you, threaten to kill you, or threaten to smash your camera either.
When there are large crowds of people the Police must put the safety of citizens before even their own. You guy’s continually refused to comply, and even tried to argue with the Officers. I’m not surprised you got arrested. If the Police were as brutal or corrupt as you claim, your videotape of the event would not exist. Secondly, you were not standing a safe distance a way during your videotaping and neither was this so called “Cop Watcher.” If you want to document something you must do so without endangering the Police, or others.
Did it ever occur to you that while you guys were arguing and interfering with the Police that someone needing help might have been hurt, or killed because you were pulling this stuff and the Police had to focus their attention on you instead of the crowd? Did it ever occur to you that someone could have come up behind an Officer and hurt him/her?
I am a strong advocate for animal rights and I’ve protested many public events. I have never placed anyone, including the very people I am protesting against in a dangerous situation. If an Officer tells me to move, I do it without any lip. Prior to the protest we meet with the Police and they have done an EXCELLENT job in assisting us in a good place to stand and record things we want to tape. I even had several Police Officers at the flea market escort me around to video tape violations of the law and animal abuse. So, sorry I think you need to rethink your behaviors, and look at your own videos. I’m pretty sure if your sister or your beautiful girl were run down by a motorist because his/her view was blocked by someone’s big illegal flag flapping in the wind, or some idiot driving by with people hanging out an open car door, your perspective would be vastly different.
#15 Kathleen,
Very well said. I watched the video supplied by Brian Helmle and came to the same conclusions as you and Finfan. The DA may not have had the stomach to file charges and that is a shame because charges should have been filed. These rebels without a cause were shown preferential treatment because our DA didn’t have the spine to do the right thing.
“Four, for various reasons, plead out to misdemeanors, and another Eastside Sixer took the case to trial and lost…”
Mr. Jayadev,
The last time you wrote an article about poor victim of the police, you forgot to tell us one of the suspects had previously shot and killed a person. Please provide us details about guilty charges of the other Sixers so we can have a complete picture of the situation.
Viewing the videos, it appears there is a complete disrespect for the orders given by the San Jose Police Officers. In the second video, the camera operator is lucky she did not get pepper-sprayed or hit with a baton.
I would like some one to explain to me WHY 4th of July celebrations don’t result in violence, but Cinco de Mayo does?
Secondly, East Side Dre, “Yes some windows were broken and bottles were thrown at police officers, BUT it was a situation that was caused by in my opinion piss poor crowd control by SJPD. I think 2 or 3 businesses had windows broken, which is horrible, but considering the situation, it could have been much worse and the crowd showed restraint.”
Your vision must have being greatly impaired then. I saw the News that night and the next day. What I saw was just horrible. 5-6 small business owners were in tears, angry, and fearful. One car lot owner took the media on a tour of ALL the slashed tires, and broken windows on his property. I don’t give a dam if these willful idiots felt pushed around by the Police; it in no way justified damaging innocent people’s property. These small business owners work very hard for every cent they make, and have families to feed, clothe, and house. They also have employees that depend on them for a paycheck to feed, clothe, and house their families.
If you saw people hanging out of their cars while driving down the street and that didn’t disturb you, and if that was something your innocent 9-year-old daughter saw and you didn’t explain the dangers of doing that, then shame on you. If one of these “fun loving,” pinheads falls out of the car and under your car tires, you will be sued for everything you own. If they die after being run over, you will have to live with that too. And if your daughter is in the car when it happens, she will be scared for life. Now how “fun” would that be?
I find the caviler and dismissive manner in which some of you justify the illegal acts, reckless behavior, violence, vandalism, and rioting very disturbing. I try to read your thoughts and feelings with an open mind, but this is just too unbelievable.
Wait until you work hard for a life time setting up a business and let’s see how you feel when some self entitled idiot destroys your lively hood without a second thought about you or your family. Or see how you feel when you get a call from the Police that your kid died under the tires of some innocent driver who couldn’t break fast enough because your kid was hanging out of the car door, “having fun.”
Grow up why don’t you? Take some responsibility for your community’s, your neighbor’s, and local businesses well being. Stop being so self involved that you forget that you revolve around the world with the rest of us, not the other way around. It is not just about YOU! We need to take care of one another, be respectful of one another, and be considerate of one another while having “fun”. Why don’t you guys be a part of the solution and not the problem!
Kathleen,
Don’t be so hard on East Side Dre. If you go back and read his post dispassionately you will recognize that he is the victim of a faulty cognitive process and, no doubt, a public schooling far too compromised to have ever brought it to his attention. Exhibit A:
– “… since I witnessed what happened first hand I think I’m a bit credible on this event.”
Based on his own post, Dre was aware that hundreds of thousands of people attended the festival, yet he believes that he can explain away all the violence and destruction because he “witnessed what happened first hand”—a claim that not even a helicopter-based observer would dare make. In Dre’s world there is no causation, only observed effect. He is convinced that the crowd control tactics he reported can be properly analyzed based on one observation made from a single location, a ridiculous conviction.
Exhibit B:
– “on Sunday I came into town from visiting some friends with my 9 year old daughter. I decided to take a cruise down Santa Clara Street to see if after all these years what Cinco De Mayo looked like.”
After informing us that he was a witness to mindless destruction and felonious assault against police officers, not to mention police brutality, in the aftermath of a previous festival, Dre thought it a sound idea to take his daughter on a cruise through the crowd, so she could enjoy watching morons and GANGBANGERS engage in traffic illegalities and reckless conduct. Irresponsible parenting in most people’s book, but Dre went on to assure readers with Exhibit C:
– “Not for one second was I fearful of my safety and more importantly the safety of my 9 year old daughter.”
After discrediting the police and blaming them for causing a peaceful crowd to become violent at a previous festival, Dre nonetheless thought it safe to expose his daughter to a large crowd under the control of the very same police department. A blatant seal of approval for SJPD, and a just as blatant contradiction to his entire post.
#19-Frustrated Finfan-“After discrediting the police and blaming them for causing a peaceful crowd to become violent at a previous festival, Dre nonetheless thought it safe to expose his daughter to a large crowd under the control of the very same police department. A blatant seal of approval for SJPD, and a just as blatant contradiction to his entire post.”
Amen to that.
YO!!
First off, Let me say that i do not CONDONE destruction of anyones property or anything of that nature. I was simply stating my OBSERVATION. Now maybe you can easily dismiss what i OBSERVED, but I know what I saw. I invite both Kathleen and Fishfan to hang out with me next first weekend of May and we can observe the things i saw together. And Kathleen you say that 7 or 8 businesses got vandalized. Okay i will take that as fact, but that is not close to “DOZENS” as fishfan claims.
Really did either of you go downtown during the first weekend of May?
Yes I am a HORRIBLE PERSON AND A HORRIBLE PARENT because i took my daughter driving down Santa Clara Street and King Rd.
I grew up attending the Cinco de Mayo festival every year. As a kid I helped my parents sell meat stick and corn on the cobs to raise money for local sports teams. Wow, my parents actually took me to the Cinco de Mayo festival too… they must be HORRIBLE parents as well. And using Kathleens logic. I will NEVER EVERRRRR take my daughter to see a parade. You know there are people standing in the back of flat bed trucks, whats going to happen if one of them falls off and dies… OHHH THE HORROR!!!!!!
Really I mean yes I know it is dumb for people to hang out their cars. Yes I am no longer a teenager and you will not see me doing this, but really the cars are going 2 or 3 miles per hour. Lets not over state the danger here. I am aware it is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY STUPID.
Both of you are quick to dismiss my observations, but since both of you have homies who are cops.. how many people got shot during this Cinco de Mayo weekend? How many got stabbed? Really I want some numbers.. was it one? two? a million? i’m guessing it was closer to zero. So lets stop all the fear mongering.
What i really want to see is real a real solution. a real compromise to handle Cinco de Mayo. Yes people want to come to San Jose, Yes it is clear the City does not want them to come. Is there any middle ground that could be found to make Cinco de Mayo an event that the city can be proud of and put the City of San Jose on the map as a destination for EVERYONE to come and enjoy the holiday?
Can anyone answer that question for me?
Thanks
YO!!
I saw I was quoted in this weeks Metro, so I now falsely feel I have tons of credibility now. But anyway I see lots of Cinco de Mayo talk on here lately and you know I have to chime in. I like to see the discussion, and its good to see that people see that something needs to change.
Lets talk about Cinco de Mayo past… I see my homie Fishfan brought up the “riots” that occurred a few years ago. Unfortunately I was right in the middle of those riots where Fishfan says “dozens” of businesses where “trashed”. Well since I witnessed what happened first hand I think I’m a bit credible on this event. After the Cinco de Mayo festival, SJPD thought it was a good idea to make a line of dozens of officers on horseback, bicycle and foot equipped in riot gear and make everyone walk away from downtown down Santa Clara Street. I believe the phrase they preferred to tell the crowd was “Get the fuck out of here”. It made no difference to officers that me and my group of friends’ car was in the opposite direction they were pushing us, they just told us to keep moving and “go home”. Speaking from first hand observation they turned an otherwise peaceful crowd into an angry mob. Yes some windows were broken and bottles were thrown at police officers, BUT it was a situation that was caused by in my opinion piss poor crowd control by SJPD. I think 2 or 3 businesses had windows broken, which is horrible, but considering the situation, it could have been much worse and the crowd showed restraint. But you know, what do I know.
This single event was the straw that broke the camels back. By this time the Cinco de Mayo festival was drawing close to half a million people downtown and it was obvious that this was going to be the last time something that big would be held downtown and the “riot” was the excuse the city was looking for.
Let us move on, This year, on Sunday I came into town from visiting some friends with my 9 year old daughter. I decided to take a cruise down Santa Clara Street to see if after all these years what Cinco De Mayo looked like. Here is what I saw.
I saw lots and lots of flags, Mexican, American, Puerto Rican, Dominican, there seemed to be a lot of proud people driving around.
I saw a lot of nice looking lowriders, my daughter especially liked the ones that hopped.
I saw people, old, young, familes, kids in carseats people hanging out of cars, gang bangers, car clubs and college fraternities. Lots of smiling faces and people having a good time.
Here is what I DIDN’T see.. violence, public drinking, weapons or anyone not having a good time.
Not for one second was I fearful of my safety and more importantly the safety of my 9 year old daughter.
Anyhow, now what upsets me the most about Cinco de Mayo in San Jose is this. At one moment in time the city was attracting500,000 people to our city. Has there EVER been a single event that has brought in more people to our city. I feel that the leaders of our city had a GREAT OPPURTUNITY to create a really special event for our city. If it was done right, It could have been a NATIONAL and even INTERNATIONAL event that filled hotel rooms and put San Jose on the map on a national level. With the right leadership and vision there could have been concerts featuring the best international performers. Museums could host international artists. Cinco de Mayo could have been the catalyst to book the Mexican Heritage Plaza for a month long series of events
Instead, San Jose decided to pull the plug on the festival. Make out of town visitors and even the city’s own residents know they are unwanted and created a police state for the first weekend in May. How does this benefit the city in anyway.. let me answer it for you, it doesn’t. The crowds are still coming, now they just don’t have anything worthwhile to do. Good job city leaders.
Kathleen,
PUT A SOCK IN IT!
I’m speaking for the we that simply get caught up in the herding of the aftermath of a Village celebration. The stream of BS that you and Fin Fan dish out daily is all part of SJI. I accept that.
Try seeing the good in our Village rather than the reflection that comes from your out of focused reflections that have you all twisted up inside.
It’s only happening between your ears yet you seemed determined to make it real by using the worst in every situation.
These event have been going on for years, too many years!
Find some good thing to focus on. Positive imaging may help you see what I see.
Of course we have challenges, but I like to see them as opportunities.
Strong leadership is essential, not heavy handed leadership. Try it you’ll like it.
The Village Black Smith
Kathleen.. How many business were vandalized? Was it “dozens” that means 24 or more. or less than that. My point is that people tend to exaggerate a bit to make their points sometimes. Thats all.
Anyhow this statement, “I have nothing positive to say about the behaviors of people drinking on the streets, driving under the influence, fighting, cussing at whites, hanging out of their cars while driving, blocking traffic,” WOW! REALLY? How many fights did you see Kathleen? How many people were drunk? ALL of them? I am not here to defend the actions of all people. But there is more to Cinco de Mayo than public drunkenness and violence. But if you want to only focus on one aspect of a small percentage of the people that is your choice.
And it is an “us vs. them” mentality. It has been that way for as long as I can remember, and I think that is the biggest downfall of this entire event. There is no cooperation between the city and the community. The current attitude of all parties involved is not a benefit of the City or its residents.
I believe that if there were some real discussion and dialog, this could be a GREAT event for our city. So far from the reaction I see on here. No one is willing to take those steps.
East Side Dre,
Your patience is very touching. You are not the only one that has commented about the proding and herding of fesitival goers. Elena Robles commented to me years ago about this police tactic. She just happened to be in that croud. Families and friends were forced to move eastward even though they had parked on the west side of the event.
I have never gone down town on Cinco de Mayo except to take my Gallery and be an intrigal part of the show and tell. The GI Forum have never been my favorite people. Alcario Castellano vediographed all of my exibits. Yet before he hit the big one the Gi Forum did away with this wonderful man.
Fernando Zuasueta was GI Forum until the heat came on.
This event is about children, or so I thought. That is why I participated, by bringing my Gallery to these events.
I stopped participating, when the GI Forum, begin to dictate. We had many good years with the children, walking thru our beautiful bronzes, and paintings. They would look at my face and realize that I looked very much ,like them. Thus the seed was planted.
So, Why do we get the Bums rush? We all know the answer to that question.
Picture a vast field of Ostriges, with their heads in the sand. Now we are centered!
It is OK to be afraid, It is not OK to Live In Fear!
My children will not help me participate with the GI Forum at any out door events. I can not blame them.
Now with the Cops forcing them selves upon us, why would I want to make the effort.
In short, the City is driving much of what is in our village away from the down town. That is a plus! Lake Cunningham would be a great place to hold this event.
I photographed the Vietnamese protests at City Hall. Hundreds of photos later. There we no Cops proding or pushing on Horse back.
I photographerd the Hunger Stricker at the moment he declared he had won his position. He looked better than most people around him. Cameo shot are available of this guy.
So what is the reality of our Village?
Who’s on first, What’s on second.
The world is watching our Abbot & Costello way of goverment.
Lou Hernandez where are you when we need you?
The Village Black Smith
#24, Gil:
Put a sock in it? Please….
“Try seeing the good in our Village rather than the reflection that comes from your out of focused reflections that have you all twisted up inside.”
Kathleen is not the one who brought this subject up. Kathleen is not the one who started to talk about Copwatch. Kathleen is not the one who first mentioned that businesses were damaged during/after Cinco de Mayo (CdeM). She just stated her thoughts and viewpoints on them. And she is right. I never saw Kathleen once degrade or trash the festival Cinco de Mayo itself; only the actions of some of it’s patrons, and the dangerous situation they create. Look, the situation created by these individuals is a safety situation for all involved. Driving with the car door open and hanging out? Is that really safe? Stopping traffic to wave a flag? Driving a MOTORCYCLE down a sidewalk? These incidents can, and have caused safety issues, that police are obligated to address. Then, there are the deliquents who cause the damage to businesses and property downtown, and, unfairly, give the rest of the festival a bad name. It seems to me that a few bad apples are spoiling the bunch. It is not festival organizer’s fault that patrons of this festival have gotten out of control, broke windows of buinesses, and rioted. But it is their obligation, and the obligation of the police, to protect against it. The Police Department’s job is to protect the rest of the festival-goers and the city from such actions and destruction. If you are angry at the actions of the police, take a good look, and get angry at those individuals who engage in drunken behavior and cause that destruction that warrants the police action. I am sure the Police would much rather be somewhere else, patroling their beats, than at Cinco de Mayo doing crowd control.
We need to find a way that we can get rid of the apples, so all can enjoy this festival in peace.
Gil, and East Side Dre,
I wanted to add to my point above that this festival should be about the moments each of you shared –
Gil – We had many good years with the children, walking thru our beautiful bronzes, and paintings. They would look at my face and realize that I looked very much ,like them. Thus the seed was planted.
East Side Dre – As a kid I helped my parents sell meat stick and corn on the cobs to raise money for local sports teams.
I submit that this is what this festival should be about – community and family. The out-of-control patrons and destruction should have no place here.
#24- Gil Hernandez,
“PUT A SOCK IN IT!
I’m speaking for the we that simply get caught up in the herding of the aftermath of a Village celebration. The stream of BS that you and Fin Fan dish out daily is all part of SJI. I accept that.”
You don’t get to misplace or take your anger out on me, or personally attack me and tell me that I don’t have a right to express my opinion on a topic, and the videos presented by the author and his buddy of this column. Your opinion is based solely on your own personal bias and I accept that, but you might try practicing what you preach. When you are able to look past your own prejudices, and when you start realizing that the “us verses them,” mentality is what causes the divide between success or failure of this issue being resolved on a City level, we’ll talk. Until then I suggest you go back to #6’s post and carefully view his videos, ALL of them, and look at them objectively. Then ask yourself why your own very wise children won’t go to this event? I don’t think it is just because of the Police.
#25-East Side Dre,
“I believe that if there were some real discussion and dialog, this could be a GREAT event for our city. So far from the reaction I see on here. No one is willing to take those steps.”
You are 100% correct about the fact that dialog needs to happen to resolve this issue, but as long as people are unwilling to admit a problem exists nothing will change, and as long as there is an “us verses them mentality,” no one will take the lead on the kinds of discussions that need to take place.
It doesn’t matter to me whether it was 12 businesses or 20 that were damaged, it is the acts of violence that disturbs me, and WHY this was done. And drinking has a lot to do with it.
Secondly, I want to make my position clear on what I personally saw youth on our streets doing at Cinco de Mayo and why I am so concerned about it. Recently Raj wrote a column on SJI about a young man who was facing LIFE for making, as his Mother put it, a bad decision. I work with and care very deeply about our youth. I can tell you that bad choices made by them WILL affect their lives in ways that will harm them in the long run. Example, I have kids on probation for drinking and driving. They lose their licenses then their jobs, and have a criminal record for DUI. Or they get arrested for fighting, vandalism, robbery, etc. Now that may not trouble you, but it does me because what you do when you are young will follow you for the rest of your life. You don’t realize it at the time, nor do you have the maturity to realize it when you are 16, 17, 18 years old, but a criminal record affects everything in your life. Not making good choices about the company you keep can hurt you forever too. Ask the mother of the young man who lucky didn’t get life.
The bottom line here is this, every time I have tried to go downtown to enjoy this festival I have been confronted with nothing but trouble there. I drive by youth drinking and driving, huge flags flapping in the wind blocking my view, young men arguing and fighting, and many other things. That in no way is enjoyable to me. I see nothing positive about this behavior at all, so I turn around and go home. So if my experiences and view point of my own personal experiences during the festival pisses you and Gil off and you want to ignore other’s opinions, so be it but it doesn’t change the fact that it is happening.
You can excuse bad behaviors of people at the festival, make it a brown thing, or an us verses them thing, minimize, deny, debate, personally attack me, try to water down the seriousness of the problem of these vandals, and you can ignore the videos presented in #6, but it will not change the fact that these behaviors are exactly why the Police are so heavily enforcing the festival. Period.
#21- East Side Dre,
Thank you for clarifying your position on reckless behaviors and the vandalism of an innocent person’s property. I’m relieved to hear you do not condone these things. I did not dismiss what you said you saw. I simply disagree with your perception of what you said happened. Frustrated Finfin is correct. More than the 5-6 businesses shown on the news were affected by these outraged vandals.
In answer to your question, YES I have been downtown during Cinco de Mayo. I have nothing positive to say about the behaviors of people drinking on the streets, driving under the influence, fighting, cussing at whites, hanging out of their cars while driving, blocking traffic, etc. that I saw with my own eyes.
I do not know you to characterize you as a good or bad parent. I was simply concerned that you took your innocent daughter downtown after the riots last year, and since your post made it sound like you approved of the reckless behaviors displayed on your outing, I was sickened by it. Now that you have clarified your disapproval of these actions, we’re golden.
East Side Dre, have you ever heard the saying, “We see things as we are, not as they are?” My belief is that given our many differences you and I could be standing together, see and hear the exact same thing, and come a way with a totally different version of what we both saw, heard, and perceived about the situation. That is the beauty of differences.
You and I seem to have a very different view of the way the Police need to do their job. Do I think there is over kill by the Police downtown, you bet I do. Do I think it is unwarranted, no I don’t. Do I think these Police actions are geared towards people of color only, nope! I think any one who is doing something reckless, illegal, or endangers the public’s safety, well being, or property is going to get busted for it. As well they should.
Let me tell you what really concerns me about some of the comments I read written by Raj, and others on here. I don’t think having an us against them mentality is the way to view the world. I am not some ignorant white chick who thinks racism, profiling, or discrimination doesn’t exist. I work in Social Justice, Criminal Justice, and am a mediator. I fight very hard for equal rights for all. Having said that, when you guys present the facts the way you do, it doesn’t win you any support from me because vital information is always lacking. Secondly, the blame game doesn’t work for me either. To say, the Police made us leave via one exit, and thus enraged people so much that they understandably destroyed innocent businesses property, is just plain ridiculous to any law-abiding citizen reading it. Can you understand that?
If you’re unhappy about the Police and their behaviors, file a complaint with the IPA. She’d LOVE to have something to bring to the Mayor and Council about the Police screwing up, but don’t tell me you saw acts of violence and it was understandable!
Finally East Side Dre, I want to say that I may not always agree with what you or others say on here, but I do really try to keep an open mind. I’m not perfect, I don’t have all the answers, but I know right from wrong, and bashing in people’s windows, blatantly defining an Officers order to move on is just not a happening thing. The Police are human beings too. They have families, good days, bad days, and bosses to answer to. This all Cops are bad crap is really getting old. When you walk a mile in their shoes and see what they see, then I think your perception of the situation will be vastly different.
#22- Gil Hernandez,
My hope is that you too will some day realize that there is no “us against them,” there is just us all together in this.
#27- Christian,
Very well said. When Cinco de Mayo becomes about youth, and educates the rest of us on Hispanic pride, art, and their history and customs, I’ll be there enjoying it with the rest.
YO!!
The bad apples are the ones that get all the attention. By the police, by politicians, by the media, by peoples words on this and other fourms. I want people to look beyond the bad apples, and see the beauty and greatness Cinco de Mayc can bring to our city. If your attitude is that Cinco de Mayo is nothing but drunk and violent, well then you’ll agree to give SJPD a free pass to kick some ass on anyone during that weekend.
I saw first hand how SJPD INCITED a riot using their crowd control techniques. I hear people on here complaining how they have now created a police state downtown during Cinco de Mayo weekend. Who is going to have the courage to step up, put SJPD in their place and declare Cinco de Mayo good for our community and make it a world class event that it has the opportunity to become. The city leaders are spineless to speak up and demand some change. So now we will be stuck in this cycle of creating a police state, people still coming out on that weekend and no one is going to benefit from this whole fiasco. Well I guess the officers of SJPD benefit with their overtime pay.
Very well said. When Cinco de Mayo becomes about youth, and educates the rest of us on Hispanic pride, art, and their history and customs, I’ll be there enjoying it with the rest.
Kathleen… Open your eyes. When you go downtown and see the YOUTH, Waving thier flags with PRIDE. Driving their cars that are works of ART. Continuing the CUSTOMS started by their parents and Grandparents… THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SEEING!
Dismiss all you want, but that is EXACTLY what goes on in the streets during Cinco de Mayo.
Not all Culture is found in museums or presented in a classroom. Open your eyes it is all around you!
#31 – East Side Dre –
“Kathleen… Open your eyes. When you go downtown and see the YOUTH, Waving thier flags with PRIDE. Driving their cars that are works of ART. Continuing the CUSTOMS started by their parents and Grandparents… THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SEEING!”
I am willing to accept that waving flags is an expression of pride – I was young once too. Can we ensure it is done in a SAFE manner – for example, in a park, or at least not in the street where it is blocking traffic, or blocking the vision of drivers? Ok, Cars are an expression of art and culture – can we do it safely, with everyone in the car, doors closed? Or, arrainge for a section at the Festival to be cordoned off where festival participants can park their cars and show them off, like a car show? Talk to people who come by about how this relates to your culture, and what it means to you. Find a way to express your culture safely, so that it does not become an issue.
Finally, and just as important, this festival has to work with the police on a way to address the situation caused by those OUT OF CONTROL patrons, many of whom are drunk, who cause or contribute to the mob mentality, and cause violence and destruction. There should be no reason whatsoever this festival should lead to this type of behavior. It just ruins the festival for the rest of the community who wishes to enjoy Cinco de Mayo. If you leave it to the police to do alone, you won’t like the result. If you work with them, you might be able to come up with some creative solutions that will not only address the issue, but help everyone enjoy the festival, and let it end on a good note!
As long as you view the Police as the enemy, you are going to create a situation where you two are on opposite sides. If, however, you approach this as a series of issues you can address together for the good of the community and this festival, then there is nothing you can’t do together.
#31-East Side Dre,
Open your eyes and your ears. Waving flags in the middle of the street while blocking traffic, or putting over sized flags on their cars which impede other’s view of on coming traffic is reckless behavior not PRIDE. We US citizens, regardless of color, take great pride in our flag and on 4th of July we proudly display them too. But I have yet to hear of rioting on 4th of July in DT, even though the Police are out in full force downtown during the fire works displays. Why is that I wonder? It isn’t because it is a “white,” holiday. I see many beautiful Hispanic families at the parks, the Children’s Museum, and at the fireworks display.
I agree with you on the beauty of the cars, and it being ART. I grew up in a house hold full of mechanics and do very much enjoy the custom built fat cars, the low riders designs, the awesome flames and pictures painted on the hoods, and all of that. I go to car shows during the summer and love it. I have even suggested the City of San Jose close downtown and put on a classic car show like they do in Campbell. It brings in a lot of business, and people from all over. I think that San Jose should try it.
As to the rest of your posts, I’m afraid we’ll just have to agree to disagree on our perceptions. The “bad apples,” have made it impossible for me, and many others to even get to go to or enjoy this festival. I have many Hispanic friends who won’t set foot in downtown on Cinco de Mayo either because of BOTH the problems of the Police, and the violence.
My friends and I spend time together enjoying good Mexican food, we listen to the elders in their families tell me stories about Mexico, coming to the US etc., we play music, and just enjoy the feeling in the air. The fact that even many of your own people won’t go speaks volumes about the situation in DT. That should anger you because even when people try to see things from your point of view, these bad apples prove you wrong.
“Not all Culture is found in museums or presented in a classroom.”
And neither is it just found in the streets. Having come from both the streets and from an educational background, I know this first hand my friend.
When you have the opportunity East Side Dre, go check out the children’s book titled, “The Little Prince.” Focus your attention on the Astronomer in the book. It will enlighten you as to why nothing changes when you refuse to acknowledge difference, and how to make the changes you want to see happen in the world of political leaders. You see change begins with a willingness to see things from another point of view, and from within you~
“The fact that even many of your own people won’t go speaks volumes about the situation in DT”
Kathleen… who exactly are “your own people” that you speak of. I don’t think I’ve every discussed my race or national origin on this board. Be careful of drawing too many conclusions. But your point is noted.
RE: culture
“And neither is it just found in the streets”
I am aware, thank you very much.
Christian and Kathleen, thank you both for your honest discussion. Both of you had an idea of a car show, which would be aweseme. It is very much appreciated. Like I said previous. I am not here to defend the actions of all people who attend Cinco de Mayo events. But I know that it is not all about thuggery and drunkenness. I am aware that many people of all colors and age groups see this holiday as such, and hopefully there can be a bit more enlightenment by all sides. The original point I made in joining this discussion is that I feel that this holiday can really be a holiday of civic pride that we invite people from all over San Jose and surrounding areas to our city and our leaders and police treat all with the respect and gratitude they deserve. On the flip side of that the revelers should also treat the city and police with respect.
Unfortunately, history surrounding this event tends to repeat it’s self year after year. So for 2009 I’m sure will be the same as 2008 and each year previous. Us vs. Them. Get out of our city, you are unwelcome. Which is sad. But atleast SJPD officers will have their OT, which I amsure they will use to take a well deserved vacation down to Mexico to drink away their problems (I’m joking… kinda).
Thank you East Side Dre for sticking this out, for being open to the differences of perception, and for reminding me that I too need to be careful of stereotyping others just because of your usage of slang, and your handle of East Side Dre.
I too agree that we all care very much about what is best for San Jose and our youth, and as difficult as this discussion may be and has been, it shows that caring people can and must talk about this and be respectful to one another.
East Side Dre, I would like to leave you with an invitation straight from the heart, if next year say around January, you and a group of others would like to ask the Mayor for a meeting to discuss how to reduce the “bad apple’s” affect on this event so we can enjoy this awesome day as one community, I’m there. I will speak to the supervisors of many non-profits I know and work with to see if they’ll come. If that sounds like a good idea let me know, and after Christmas we can set up a meeting to decide how to go about it.
#36- Gil,
Have you noticed that since Raj’s column has been on SJI, very few of the regulars on here have participated in the discussions? Have you ever asked yourself why that is?
Secondly, I have no clue what in the world you are talking about, or the point you are trying to make in your post. I think East Side Dre and I have come to a place of mutual respect, even though we don’t see eye to eye on everything. He has show integrity and worked very hard with me to have a very respectful and honest exchange of ideas.
Given that, I want you to know that as long as you persist in making comments and judgments about me, when as you so aptly pointed out, you don’t know me, rather than making this an intellectual discussion about the real issue and topic above, then you will have to continue this conversation by yourself. If however you decide to make an effort to discuss this in a respectful way without your personal editorial comments about me and others, then I’d be happy to continue exchanging opinions with you. Have a great weekend Gil.
#35 Kathleen,May 16 5:57.
Interesting how you go from paitent to Doctor over the course of 35 postings.
This one, I have printed out. I will mail this out to the city council and others prior to the permits process for next year’s Cinco de Mayo devestations. Er Ahh celebration!
This obsession with flags, good cops bad cops, they did it , no you did it, BS, is the real problem.
I went back to watch the videos. I got the best kick from the De Bug Gang Banger fashion show. Great job Homies. That is one the Latino Peace officers should be sponsoring. That has great potential as a way to unify the layers of suspicion encountered by folks like Pyle and others. I coined Wet Back Wear, when wittnessing the 300 thousand Immigration marchers in San Jose, for very much the same reason. Hey, there was no herding by the police that day! GO FIGURE?
What does that tell you?
When we cannot dialoge eye ball to eye ball, we slip into ruts that makes us Serial Bloggers. We hide behind that safety wall, and soon even before we know it we metamophize into our own world of fears and denials. Pushing everything away that frightens us. It all happens between our ears, does’nt it?
I had great expectations for our Village after the last 8 years. Now I have fears that a heavy hand has taken control of our Fair Village.
I’m not feeling the love! Why the recent show of force by the police? Is there a connection between this and the Reed / Compos spat? Who’s on First? No, Who’s on second!
I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the Conservation Corp, Friends of the Guadalupe, and the office of Sam Licardo, for the terrific clean up job that has been done on the Guadalupe Trail between the Julian St entrance and the airport. Next month we will be celebrating our 1000th mile walking the trail from the San Jose Athletic Club to the Airport. The trail has never looked better.
Cleaning up our planet starts at home doesn’t it?
The Village Black Smith
Kathleen,
I too have noticed the drop off of regulars with “Raj”. He has the typical left of left attitude where the troublemakers are never at fault, but the city council and police are responsible for everything bad. This is the same mantra the Mercury has drummed for years and why I cancelled my subscription long ago, and in large part why it is a dying paper. Also, I read Gil’s comments towards you in his post #36 and had no idea what the point of his post was.
#38- Dave,
Thank you for your honesty about why you think people on SJI doesn’t take part in the discussions on Raj’s columns. I think it is important that we call out the elephant standing in the room, so that perhaps people will start participating more. I would add that when people do try to take part in the discussions on here, they are either called racists, or personally attacked for pointing out what we see as our “own” truth. By having the old “us verses them” mentality going out the gate, it in no way encourages open discussion or creates a safe environment to exchange ideas.
I can understand the frustrations held by Raj and his cronies. Change does need to happen in San Jose. But that change needs to happen across the board, not with just the Mayor, Council, and the Police. They are sworn to protect the public’s safety and that is just what they are doing. The lawlessness of the crowds is a vital issue that needs to be addressed.
Mayor Newsom in SF, got really fed up with the violence on Halloween and after many years of telling the public to stop behaving badly, he canceled the celebration in the interest of public safety. I didn’t hear any one scream that he hates gays, or that the Police in SF are gay haters, that they hated Halloween, or were racist. As a matter of fact, every public celebration I’ve gone to in SF has heavy Police presence. No one accuses them of being brutal or of being oppressive. I wonder why that is given that they are not doing anything different than SJPD?