Could one of you experts explain your attacks on McEnery? Seems if he hadn’t brought in the “classy” tenants in the first place, downtown would be in even worse shape than it is. How did his bringing in solid businesses other than clubs cause the “fall of downtown?” It’s easy to sit on the sidelines as you do and snipe at those who try to improve the downtown. Do you have anything to even slightly back-up your attacks? Gimme something, here. If not, can you tell what (no matter how minuscule) you have done to improve downtown besides take shots at those who have tried?
Fact you should know…. TomMcE has been the most vocal voice to have the police chase clubs and their patrons away. This blog was his key sounding board; besides is illegal lobbying and such.
Unfortunately for him, he has chased his own patrons and businesses away as they have been grouped and scooped up in the same net as the so called bad clubs and patrons. Ooppps for him.
Such a beautiful space for a restaurant. But no worries…once it becomes official that the A’s our coming to SJ, prospective tenants will be fighting to get into that space.
High-speed rail and BART? Downtowns best days are ahead of us, and we’ll all be able to thank TMac.
#4, a number of people have tried to get the city to implement different solutions to the nightlife issues downtown. The police and city solutions that basically cast everyone who operates a bar or club and all patrons has criminals didn’t work.
The heavy handed police presense scared and detered normal good customers. Leaving downtown with a angry latino clientele base that is quit simply used to being pushed around by the police. And note, the very clubs that the city and police were trying to get rid of are the only ones left!
Very fitting that the police crackdown engineered by Tom McEnery cost him his classiest tenant.
The ill-conceived effort to drive clubs from the San Pedro area and gentrify the district just brought the city lawsuits and bad publicity. The bad police behavior warned educated suburbanites to stay away, and downtown was left with a clientele that couldn’t support upscale establishments.
It’ll be a long time before Farmers Union Corp. has a tenant as classy as the Paviciches.
A.P.,R.I.P.
I’m sure Vic Ajluny’s client will earn his 120k salary advising Chuck and Rob on how to create a customer-friendly downtown. But by then, downtown will be down to Ross Dress for Less and Popeye’s Chicken.
I suspect at least 95% of clubbing patrons have never been to AP Stumps. The clubbing crowd is what keeps many folks who’d otherwise eat at AP Stumps away from downtown SJ. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that the ‘anti-clubbing’ issue probably isn’t what killed the restaurant.
Now that yet another large tenant of the McEs is leaving, will Tom decide to return the $6mil? Who would loan $$ to expand an area that’s failing already?
I fail to see how the strict club regulations has anything to do with the closing of A.P. Stumps. How many gangbangers do you see going to A.P. Stumps. The real reason A.P. Stumps closed is everybody who has this image of Downtown San Jose in the 1970’s will never go downtown and that is the reason why Downtown has never flurished. If we are ever to persuade the hardheaded folks in Almaden, and Willow Glen to come downtown, we have to get rid of the Nightclubs on Santa Clara Street and replace them with upscale hip restaurants and Clothing stores. There still is a place for Nightclubs, just not on Santa Clara Street.
Greg Howe,
You’re right! It is good stuff! It’s called being optimistic and confident in our city’s future. You are sorely in need of a good puff of it, and please inhale!
By the way, read the SJ/SV Biz Journal article about AP Stumps closing. They “live and died” by events happening at HP Pavilion and conventions. Again, the critical mass of a Major League ballpark and European-style train station. The future of downtown San Jose is bright, naysayers be damned!
Oh yeah, optimism/confidence “good stuff” free of charge.
#13 opined:“The real reason A.P. Stumps closed is everybody who has this image of Downtown San Jose in the 1970’s will never go downtown and that is the reason why Downtown has never flurished.”
No, #13, there are 2 reasons (at least) why AP Stumps closed. One: Their pricing attracted an expense account crowd. Between the Dot-Bust and the latest economic collapse, people no longer could charge their meals to an expense account. The woners never picked up on that.
The second reason is, at least Thursday-Sunday, the folks who would pay the price to eat @ Stumps didn’t want to put up with the thugs who patrol Santa Clara Street, in and out of autos, on those evenings. Why leave your safe nest in Almaden or Willow Glen when you could eat nearer to home and not have to put up with the bullshit DT?
Well, maybe there’s a third reason—the owners didn’t listen to regulars who gave suggestions, since they were way too arrogant to believe that regular customers know more than they do about what would sell. So, those regulars stopped coming.
“The clubbing crowd is what keeps many folks who’d otherwise eat at AP Stumps away from downtown SJ.”
So the valley is full of prudes? I’m not shocked. I guess that’s why they stick to the McMall at Stevens Creek and Winchester. The prices keep out those dangerous urban folk.
14 – You actually make Greg’s case for him. No “real” big city has to rely solely on what events are taking place at their arena or ball park. Those amenities should supplement a lively, vibrant, and active downtown, not be the only thing going on in a downtown.
As long as we look to concerts and ball games to “save” our downtown, it will never be saved.
17 Puff Puff,
Greg Howe didn’t have a point, he was just trying to be funny.
Second, are you not aware of what AT&T Park did for South Beach in SF? Petco Park for The Gaslamp in San Diego? Coors Field for LoDo/downtown Denver? Camden Yards for the Inner Harbor/Downtown Baltimore?
I could go on and on. Bottom line: the evidence wholeheartedly supports my view. Our future is bright!
So Sad, Where will the McHenry’s get thier upscale free meals? They are losing all of thier tenants in thier failed attempt to rid downtown of those pesky mexicans. Gone are Tide House, Blakes, Emmas, and now AP stumps.
They will be left chomping on peggy sue burgers and wagon wheel burgers (as long as that place lasts!).
Great Jobber Tommy Mac, you shot both of your feet off!
But no one should worry. Sammy and Harry will hand him a few more million to survive!
21 Puff,
More important to be realistic than optimistic? You would need the ability to see into the future (crystal ball?) for that statement to be accurate. Puff all you want, I don’t think you have that ability.
Rather than go in circles debating with you Puff, let me end this with a simple question: Then what should we do for downtown San Jose?
Just sit on our hands and do nothing? Allow more restaurants/businesses to close and do nothing? Not try and build up critical mass of residents, visitors, employees?
Being “realistic” in your world suggests giving up and doing nothing…I’m not giving up on our downtown!
18 – Now you’ve made my point. Thanks. The cities you mention were hardly the struggling downtowns that SJ is. The stadiums certainly helped but they were doing fine without them. SJ is not doing fine and it is foolish to stake the future of downtown SJ on a stadium. It will probably help but if there is nothing to draw people when there is no game or concert then our downtown is still in trouble. It’s one thing to be optimistic but it is more important to be realistic. Try it.
If the city had any brains it would offer the Paviciches a million or two to keep one of the best restaurants downtown. Lord knows the city subsidized the Sainte Claire, home of Il Fornaio, the parking garage where Scott’s Seafood located, the Grill in the Fairmont, Paolo’s at Lincoln Properties, PF Chang’s in the Swenson Building, E&O in the Century Building, La Pastaia at De Anza, Morton’s in Park Center Plaza, stc. etc. The corporate restaurants get the subsidies while independent businesses like Stumps, Emile’s, Eulipia and others are allowed to die on the vine. When is SJ going to wake up and realize that Ross Dress for Less and Starbucks are not the way to build a downtown.
Nobody comes downtown anymore! They only come downtown during events, and that’s it. This downturn, which is the worst since 1929, is downtown’s final exam. So far, it’s failing miserably. It got 3 years to go in this downturn. Downtown SJ will definitely not make it at all. The city screwed up so much with Satana Row + Valley Fair, which suck the life out of downtown. Downtown SJ is most likely $3 billion failure which will, for sure, drain the city’s coffer for many years to come. Boy, Frank Taylor, “you’ll be cursed” by the people of San Jose, and it’ll come back to haunt you for wasting redevelopment funds on downtown that doesn’t work, which will leave the citizen of San Jose bleeding dry for years to come. There will be potholes, very limited fire, police and city’s services for a very long term period. all of this is because of the city’s gamble on rebuilding downtown, which has turn around and bit the city in the rear-end. It’s a very sad conclusion and reality. Tom McEnery/Frank Taylor Team failed miserably as time stated. That also go for Susan Hammer and Ron Gonzales who stayed on failing track of downtown progress and development. These people have no experience developing cities once so ever! Therefore, the city and its people are going to suffer the consequences for some time to come. P.S.: Very sorry, sorry predicatement.
“The cities you mention were hardly the struggling downtowns that SJ is. The stadiums certainly helped but they were doing fine without them. SJ is not doing fine and it is foolish to stake the future of downtown SJ on a stadium. It will probably help but if there is nothing to draw people when there is no game or concert then our downtown is still in trouble.”
Look at the big picture. You’re saying no one thing can “save” downtown which just lost one of a thousand restaurants. How about a stadium plus a transit center plus new condos plus new office space plus a public market plus Little Italy…suddenly it doesn’t sound so one-dimensional. Stop skewing reality, chicken little.
No one is guessing who’s next to close their business in DT! Any upscale places left beside the two hotels?
Face it, SJ is strictly middle (and lower)class. Saratoga, Monte Sereno, Los Gatos, Los Altos Hills, Atherton, Hillsboro, Portola Valley, Woodside those are truly upscale. All the new money is going into Downtown Sunnyvale redevelopment.
On Tuesday made trip from Santa Cruz to SF by public transport. With senior discount roundtrip cost $12.50. Beats paying $3/hour SF parking meters and traffic jams.
Caltrain was quite full. Sat on the top deck looking for good place to open a Silicon Valley non-profit “youth hostel”. Mountain View seemed the best location with a vibrant business street close by the station (and Light Rail end stop). Sunnyvale also good, Santa Clara less OK. But Diridon not so good, nothing nearby except HP Pavillion and mostly empty parking lots. Very little SJ tourist info when arriving by train.
It’s a shame cause there are plenty of interesting places for tourists to visit in San Jose area.
If you’re waiting for High Speed Rail to save DT, then immense patience would be a virtue. JMO: An open mind and some vision couldn’t hurt.
#20 pgp3: “Any upscale places left beside the two hotels? Face it, SJ is strictly middle (and lower)class…”
Well let’s see: Scott’s Seafood, Grill on the Alley, Pagoda, McCormick and Schmicks, the Paragon, Emile’s, 7Restaurant and Lounge, Mosaic, Eulipia, PF Chang’s….etc.
Maybe you should get out of Santa Cruz a little more often. Then when you post something about San Jose you will actually know what you are talking about!
#20: The Ardizzone family solf La Pastaia a while back and Spiedo, never that good on food or service, has switched to Mexican food. Maybe the vatos locos will eat there.
#24—the death rattle for DT will be heard when they build up the “second DT” in North SJ.
#25—the new condo buildings are all practically empty. They have lowered their prices 10%. It needs to be at least a 30% reduction. Several, which used some city $$, have been given permission to switch to rentals.
This constant dialogue about how to make downtown into a place where people actually want to go, and to live, is hilarious. Everyone keeps throwing out things like stadiums, condos, restaurants, etc., as if those things will magically transform downtown. Well, I am sorry, but they will not. Downtown SJ is dead, and will only come back to life when a major surgery has been performed on the cancer that is destroying downtown from the inside.
You have been informed of this time and time again, yet you continue to ignore the obvious. Until San Jose International is moved to Hollister, downtown San Jose is dead. The airport itself is wasting 1000 acres that could be put too much better use. Additionally, the FAA restrictions on building in downtown have crippled the city, and as long as the airport is in place nothing will improve. Add to that the fact most people do not want to be anywhere near a noisy, polluting airport while they are at home, and/or trying to have some fun, and you have the recipe for a failed downtown.
So, keep on trying to build stadiums, condos, and restaurants to resurrect downtown. Or, continue to blame the gangsters for the lack of life in downtown. Until you accept the fact the airport is the biggest reason for the lack of life in downtown, and move it, there will never be any improvement to downtown. No matter how much money is thrown at it.
I actually agree with part of your post. I’m a huge proponent of relocating SJC operations out of its current “downtown” site to either Gilroy/Hollister or Moffett Field. It sucks to be eating outside at Sonoma Chicken and hearing loud jetliners buzz overhead, or having a stumpy skyline of 15-20 story “skyscrapers.”
However, I stand by what I said earlier: we can’t simply sit on our hands and do nothing. Downtown is still workable even with the airport at its current spot. Just check out San Diego to the south to see a downtown flurishing with an airport close by.
Let’s build the best downtown we can for now, and later we’ll fight to move SJC operations to a more appropriate site.
Amazing how one restaurant closing evolves quicky into a diatribe by the varied City “engineers”. Focus on the facts first, thats enough to keep busy. My bias is that across America Cities are increasingly redeveloped on the premise that only upscale clientele matter. Only the RDA and co. could come up with something so absurd as the failed “Saigon Sushi”. Discussing with June of the belated JJ’s Blues downtown, I admonished her not to close but wait for Paseo Plaza to load up with her new customers. She told me it would have no impact. She was right, I was wrong.
SF’s most successful upscale makeover was North Beach. It evolved without subsidy. There is no better example of Client loyalty rules over wealth than Original Joe’s. Still full up even Sundays. Now engineer that!
“#25—the new condo buildings are all practically empty. They have lowered their prices 10%. It needs to be at least a 30% reduction. Several, which used some city $$, have been given permission to switch to rentals.”
Wow, are you saying there’s a housing slump amidst this economic recession? Amazing!
#26 Maybe you should do a little research yourself…Paragon no longer exists, being replaced by Mosaic…7 is very for sale…PF Chang’s is the worst performing restaurant of their chain…Eulipia is virtually deserted…Is Emile’s still open? Billy Berk’s closed for the entire 4th weekend…The downtown restaurant scene is in dire Straits (pun intended)…
#28—Lingburgh Field in DT San Diego hasn’t hurt The Gaslamp District or the rest of DT. The landing pattern is right over DT SD. Other than you, I have never heard a singlr person contend that they don’t come DT SJ because of airport noise. And the houses under the landing & takeoff patterns continue to sell. Get another rap, #28—join the other one trick pony on this site—pgp3—and push for a hostel…maybe right next to SJC.
OOOPS. I just read #29. There are now TWO people who complain about airport noise DT. But he comes, anyway, #28.
#30—where was Siagon Sushi? I guess I’m one of thousands that never heard of it. Thus, it’s demise.
#31: I was seriously considering moving from Willow Glen, where I have lived since 1980, into one of the DT medium-rises. The 88 was my favorite—good floor plans, and only 2 blocks from my office and three blocks from SJ Athletic Club. I could have turned my car in at the end of the lease, and bought a smart car for daily use, and rented a regular car when I travel. But Axis, The 88 (which share the same marketing company) and 360 residences have steadfastly refused to lower their prices to current market reality. That dominoes into lenders not lending, since they won’t appraise at the prices they were penciled out at prior to construction. The owners/marketers must have the same virus Jogn Sobrato has—keeping the building empty until a single user takes it over. But Mr. Sobrato built that building with his own $$. The condo builders have loans to repay.
#26, Reader, I stand corrected. Sorry, I must spend more time in San Jose, haven’t been back since SJSU graduation 25 years ago.
You might guess that I graduated in logic, but it was actually just Business Management. The logic comes naturally to us Hungarians, seems to be more difficult for some Irish like JMO. >
You listed 11 upscale restaurants! Pretty good for a city of a million plus; that’s one pricey restaurant/100,000. How many will still be open a year from now? I hope you’ll let me know on 7/4/10.
We do a lot better here in DT Santa Cruz and on the Wharf. As many of you found out last weekend, restaurants here may not be too good, but all (save Taco Bell) are pricey.
Yes, San Jose could use a bunch of 50-story skyscrapers. Why not 100-story? Never mind you’re close to the Hayward Fault and fire ladders can’t reach above the 10th story. Everybody above that gets a parachute.
What’s wrong with Palo Alto? They’re far from SJC and Moffett, why aren’t they building 50-story skyscrapers? What’s wrong with those people?
Check out today’s Merc Business page 3e! Silicon Valley has 54 Million square feet commercial properties up for lease (out of 300 Million total). San Jose itself has about 17,000,000 square feet of properties for lease (and still increasing vs. 1yr.ago).
All we need to open a large 250 bed Silicon Valley urban non-profit “youth” hostel is about 25,000 square feet. That’s roughly 100/bed including dorms, family rooms, kitchen, bath rooms, reception, offices, some staff quarters, dining, meeting, laundry, bicycle storage, etc.
This would be the cheapest, most cost effective way to bring “normal” people who have some $$ in their pockets to DT every night. Why not to San Jose instead of SClara, MV, SunnyV or PA??
pgp3
#35 is correct about airport noise not being a factor. There are lots of reasons to come or stay away from DT, but airport noise is not one of them. BTW, I live near 2nd/Hensley and hear airplane noise all day. It doesn’t bother me a bit, and I love being close to the airport when I go on a flight, unless the stupid airline makes me go to SFO because of a significantly cheaper fare [pay attention, Hawaiian].
On another note, add me to the list of people who have never heard of Siagon Sushi. Of course, I’ve only lived in SJ since 2005.
regarding condo pricing, I guess it makes more sense to hold out for better times. I heard some condos are now taking renters. How are the other new condos, like the finally-completed Plant 51 doing?
Idiot, Pick just about any of the above. The reason the good places close is because of these thugs and clubbers who were in town keeping out decent people that would go to these classy restaurants, not because Tom Mcenery tired to clean them out. If it had been done sooner these places would still be open.
#35 and #36 both live in a fantasy world. Keep on dreaming, and wasting money on a lost cause. As long as the airport is downtown, then that part of San Jose is DOA. Unfortunately for both of you, the majority of the population does not have your absurd ideas, and will never move DT until the airport is gone. If they did agree with you then we would not be having this discussion. The residents of Santa Clara County have spoken loud and clear.
Actually, I suspect that after the RDA runs out of money to throw at DT then DT will end up (again) like East San Jose has from Reid-Hillview. DT was already like that until the RDA started throwing billions into DT during the 80s, so that did slow its decline down some, but obviously did not stop it. Why didn’t all the RDA money fix DT? Because very few people want to live, or be near, an airport if they do not have to.
Okay, so back to APs…. I will miss AP Stumps, Jim Stump and the Pavicich’s commitment to the community. They have share venue with numerous charities throughout the years and thier kindness will not be forgotten.
Perhaps one reason why so many people who bash DT are not from DT is because they are sick and tired of all the RDA $$ going to DT, while the rest of the city sees service declines and while city worker retirement benefits threaten to bankrupt the city.
Aw come on now, the rest of San Jose is for “Losers and Lowlifes” why should we spend money there?
Regardless, the way our govt spends our money is a legitimate thing to bash but it is not what I am referring to. It is the characterization by many of the trolls on the board that downtown SJ is a thug filled wasteland that I object to.
Yes, SJC should move so that 150 story skyscrapers can be built DT San Jose.
Moffett is too close, Morgan Hill too far away.
The ideal site for the new airport is on top of Loma Prieta Mountain. The planes will be 2000 feet closer to their cruising altitude, thus saving much fuel costs, making new SJC the cheapest Bay area airport to fly out of.
Some people might prefer top of Mt. Hamilton but the telescope is in the way. Naturally I’d prefer Loma Prieta since it’s closer to my home in Surf City USA.
One minor problem is that on rare occasions it snows on the mountain, but with a few snowplows or a solar heating system this should be no big problem.
The only downside is that when this plan becomes successful then Oakland might move their airport to top of Mt. Diablo and SFO will end up atop Mt. Tomalpais.
Some of the stuff I’ve read on this blog is even further far out.
Why is it that the majority of people who bash DT don’t live here?
The bashers all seem so angry about it too.
“DT is for losers and lowlife’s” I remember reading that quote form some poster a while back. Why the hate?
I’ve lived here since 02’(Paseo Villas), I like it a lot and so do my neighbors (and if you polled the residents of The Colonnade/Paseo Plaza/Paseo Villas/New Century apartmemnts/101 San Fernando I bet you will find a lot of people who feel the same way).
Restaurants and retail stores are closing everywhere right now, not just in DT. It is just the times.
I fail understand how posting negative comments about DT really accomplishes anything.
Perhaps much of the criticism of DT that you label “bashing” is the legitimate objection by taxpayers that so many tax dollars are used downtown while the streets, sidewalks, sewers, trees, and parks out here in Undowntownland fall further into disrepair and neglect.
Seems to me that if any real, substantive bashing is being done, it’s the 90% of San Jose that ISN’T downtown that is the true “bashee”.
I think your idea has merit. Let’s put Rod Diridon to work on it.
The new airport could be financed by simply raising library overdue fines from the current .25/day per item to $25,000/day per item.
The land that SJC currently occupies could be converted into a vast, first of it’s kind Lead Hazard Awareness Museum. This would attract visitors from around the world, generating revenue. That revenue would be loaded into howitzers and shot in the general direction of downtown. Eventually, after being bombarded with enough money, San Jose’s downtown would achieve it’s true destiny as the most fabulous downtown in the entire universe.
#34: I take your point regarding Paragon. Too bad it closed. It was a good restaurant.
My point was to tell that Santa Cruz wanker (whose idea of a good restaurant are those tourist traps on the Santa Cruz warf) that despite his proclamations DTSJ does have any number of good restaurants.
By the way, I was in Eulipia about 5 weeks ago and it was quite busy, and as good as ever. Emile’s had a change of owners (Emile is no longer there, I’m told) but last time I was there the food and service were still excellent. Truth be told, I’m more of a La Victoria kind of guy but I make a point to go to nicer places too.
There is no question that, as you say, the downtown restaurant scene is struggling. But be fair, this is true of most restaurants everywhere in the current recession. Even in the best of times many new restaurants fail within a few years. It’s a tough business.
Ideally, DTSJ should have a variety of restaurants, from upscale to lovable dives. It would be great, but probably not legal, to keep fast food chains out.
But more important, when customers enter and exit the restaurant they should not be subjected to drunks, lines of cops, and an image that resembles more of a riot zone than a nice night out on the town.
Move the airport to Hollister? It would make more sense to move the nightclubs to Hollister!
Could one of you experts explain your attacks on McEnery? Seems if he hadn’t brought in the “classy” tenants in the first place, downtown would be in even worse shape than it is. How did his bringing in solid businesses other than clubs cause the “fall of downtown?” It’s easy to sit on the sidelines as you do and snipe at those who try to improve the downtown. Do you have anything to even slightly back-up your attacks? Gimme something, here. If not, can you tell what (no matter how minuscule) you have done to improve downtown besides take shots at those who have tried?
Is it any surprise?
Mr Kite er TomMcE
Testy testy testy
Fact you should know…. TomMcE has been the most vocal voice to have the police chase clubs and their patrons away. This blog was his key sounding board; besides is illegal lobbying and such.
Unfortunately for him, he has chased his own patrons and businesses away as they have been grouped and scooped up in the same net as the so called bad clubs and patrons. Ooppps for him.
Such a beautiful space for a restaurant. But no worries…once it becomes official that the A’s our coming to SJ, prospective tenants will be fighting to get into that space.
High-speed rail and BART? Downtowns best days are ahead of us, and we’ll all be able to thank TMac.
#4, a number of people have tried to get the city to implement different solutions to the nightlife issues downtown. The police and city solutions that basically cast everyone who operates a bar or club and all patrons has criminals didn’t work.
The heavy handed police presense scared and detered normal good customers. Leaving downtown with a angry latino clientele base that is quit simply used to being pushed around by the police. And note, the very clubs that the city and police were trying to get rid of are the only ones left!
Police bullying just doens’t work!
Very fitting that the police crackdown engineered by Tom McEnery cost him his classiest tenant.
The ill-conceived effort to drive clubs from the San Pedro area and gentrify the district just brought the city lawsuits and bad publicity. The bad police behavior warned educated suburbanites to stay away, and downtown was left with a clientele that couldn’t support upscale establishments.
It’ll be a long time before Farmers Union Corp. has a tenant as classy as the Paviciches.
A.P.,R.I.P.
I’m sure Vic Ajluny’s client will earn his 120k salary advising Chuck and Rob on how to create a customer-friendly downtown. But by then, downtown will be down to Ross Dress for Less and Popeye’s Chicken.
Its amazing that some people here actually think that club-goers and AP Stumps clientele are the same people.
I suspect at least 95% of clubbing patrons have never been to AP Stumps. The clubbing crowd is what keeps many folks who’d otherwise eat at AP Stumps away from downtown SJ. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that the ‘anti-clubbing’ issue probably isn’t what killed the restaurant.
Now that yet another large tenant of the McEs is leaving, will Tom decide to return the $6mil? Who would loan $$ to expand an area that’s failing already?
10th Largest (#7),
OMG, that must be some goooooood stuff… where can I get some and is it expensive?
I fail to see how the strict club regulations has anything to do with the closing of A.P. Stumps. How many gangbangers do you see going to A.P. Stumps. The real reason A.P. Stumps closed is everybody who has this image of Downtown San Jose in the 1970’s will never go downtown and that is the reason why Downtown has never flurished. If we are ever to persuade the hardheaded folks in Almaden, and Willow Glen to come downtown, we have to get rid of the Nightclubs on Santa Clara Street and replace them with upscale hip restaurants and Clothing stores. There still is a place for Nightclubs, just not on Santa Clara Street.
Greg Howe,
You’re right! It is good stuff! It’s called being optimistic and confident in our city’s future. You are sorely in need of a good puff of it, and please inhale!
By the way, read the SJ/SV Biz Journal article about AP Stumps closing. They “live and died” by events happening at HP Pavilion and conventions. Again, the critical mass of a Major League ballpark and European-style train station. The future of downtown San Jose is bright, naysayers be damned!
Oh yeah, optimism/confidence “good stuff” free of charge.
#9—U right!
#13 opined:“The real reason A.P. Stumps closed is everybody who has this image of Downtown San Jose in the 1970’s will never go downtown and that is the reason why Downtown has never flurished.”
No, #13, there are 2 reasons (at least) why AP Stumps closed. One: Their pricing attracted an expense account crowd. Between the Dot-Bust and the latest economic collapse, people no longer could charge their meals to an expense account. The woners never picked up on that.
The second reason is, at least Thursday-Sunday, the folks who would pay the price to eat @ Stumps didn’t want to put up with the thugs who patrol Santa Clara Street, in and out of autos, on those evenings. Why leave your safe nest in Almaden or Willow Glen when you could eat nearer to home and not have to put up with the bullshit DT?
Well, maybe there’s a third reason—the owners didn’t listen to regulars who gave suggestions, since they were way too arrogant to believe that regular customers know more than they do about what would sell. So, those regulars stopped coming.
“The clubbing crowd is what keeps many folks who’d otherwise eat at AP Stumps away from downtown SJ.”
So the valley is full of prudes? I’m not shocked. I guess that’s why they stick to the McMall at Stevens Creek and Winchester. The prices keep out those dangerous urban folk.
14 – You actually make Greg’s case for him. No “real” big city has to rely solely on what events are taking place at their arena or ball park. Those amenities should supplement a lively, vibrant, and active downtown, not be the only thing going on in a downtown.
As long as we look to concerts and ball games to “save” our downtown, it will never be saved.
17 Puff Puff,
Greg Howe didn’t have a point, he was just trying to be funny.
Second, are you not aware of what AT&T Park did for South Beach in SF? Petco Park for The Gaslamp in San Diego? Coors Field for LoDo/downtown Denver? Camden Yards for the Inner Harbor/Downtown Baltimore?
I could go on and on. Bottom line: the evidence wholeheartedly supports my view. Our future is bright!
So Sad, Where will the McHenry’s get thier upscale free meals? They are losing all of thier tenants in thier failed attempt to rid downtown of those pesky mexicans. Gone are Tide House, Blakes, Emmas, and now AP stumps.
They will be left chomping on peggy sue burgers and wagon wheel burgers (as long as that place lasts!).
Great Jobber Tommy Mac, you shot both of your feet off!
But no one should worry. Sammy and Harry will hand him a few more million to survive!
Mac is the modern day DB Cooper!
21 Puff,
More important to be realistic than optimistic? You would need the ability to see into the future (crystal ball?) for that statement to be accurate. Puff all you want, I don’t think you have that ability.
Rather than go in circles debating with you Puff, let me end this with a simple question: Then what should we do for downtown San Jose?
Just sit on our hands and do nothing? Allow more restaurants/businesses to close and do nothing? Not try and build up critical mass of residents, visitors, employees?
Being “realistic” in your world suggests giving up and doing nothing…I’m not giving up on our downtown!
18 – Now you’ve made my point. Thanks. The cities you mention were hardly the struggling downtowns that SJ is. The stadiums certainly helped but they were doing fine without them. SJ is not doing fine and it is foolish to stake the future of downtown SJ on a stadium. It will probably help but if there is nothing to draw people when there is no game or concert then our downtown is still in trouble. It’s one thing to be optimistic but it is more important to be realistic. Try it.
If the city had any brains it would offer the Paviciches a million or two to keep one of the best restaurants downtown. Lord knows the city subsidized the Sainte Claire, home of Il Fornaio, the parking garage where Scott’s Seafood located, the Grill in the Fairmont, Paolo’s at Lincoln Properties, PF Chang’s in the Swenson Building, E&O in the Century Building, La Pastaia at De Anza, Morton’s in Park Center Plaza, stc. etc. The corporate restaurants get the subsidies while independent businesses like Stumps, Emile’s, Eulipia and others are allowed to die on the vine. When is SJ going to wake up and realize that Ross Dress for Less and Starbucks are not the way to build a downtown.
Nobody comes downtown anymore! They only come downtown during events, and that’s it. This downturn, which is the worst since 1929, is downtown’s final exam. So far, it’s failing miserably. It got 3 years to go in this downturn. Downtown SJ will definitely not make it at all. The city screwed up so much with Satana Row + Valley Fair, which suck the life out of downtown. Downtown SJ is most likely $3 billion failure which will, for sure, drain the city’s coffer for many years to come. Boy, Frank Taylor, “you’ll be cursed” by the people of San Jose, and it’ll come back to haunt you for wasting redevelopment funds on downtown that doesn’t work, which will leave the citizen of San Jose bleeding dry for years to come. There will be potholes, very limited fire, police and city’s services for a very long term period. all of this is because of the city’s gamble on rebuilding downtown, which has turn around and bit the city in the rear-end. It’s a very sad conclusion and reality. Tom McEnery/Frank Taylor Team failed miserably as time stated. That also go for Susan Hammer and Ron Gonzales who stayed on failing track of downtown progress and development. These people have no experience developing cities once so ever! Therefore, the city and its people are going to suffer the consequences for some time to come. P.S.: Very sorry, sorry predicatement.
“The cities you mention were hardly the struggling downtowns that SJ is. The stadiums certainly helped but they were doing fine without them. SJ is not doing fine and it is foolish to stake the future of downtown SJ on a stadium. It will probably help but if there is nothing to draw people when there is no game or concert then our downtown is still in trouble.”
Look at the big picture. You’re saying no one thing can “save” downtown which just lost one of a thousand restaurants. How about a stadium plus a transit center plus new condos plus new office space plus a public market plus Little Italy…suddenly it doesn’t sound so one-dimensional. Stop skewing reality, chicken little.
At first I was bummed, then I realize I haven’t eaten there now in about 3 years. Guess that covers a lot of us . . .
No one is guessing who’s next to close their business in DT! Any upscale places left beside the two hotels?
Face it, SJ is strictly middle (and lower)class. Saratoga, Monte Sereno, Los Gatos, Los Altos Hills, Atherton, Hillsboro, Portola Valley, Woodside those are truly upscale. All the new money is going into Downtown Sunnyvale redevelopment.
On Tuesday made trip from Santa Cruz to SF by public transport. With senior discount roundtrip cost $12.50. Beats paying $3/hour SF parking meters and traffic jams.
Caltrain was quite full. Sat on the top deck looking for good place to open a Silicon Valley non-profit “youth hostel”. Mountain View seemed the best location with a vibrant business street close by the station (and Light Rail end stop). Sunnyvale also good, Santa Clara less OK. But Diridon not so good, nothing nearby except HP Pavillion and mostly empty parking lots. Very little SJ tourist info when arriving by train.
It’s a shame cause there are plenty of interesting places for tourists to visit in San Jose area.
If you’re waiting for High Speed Rail to save DT, then immense patience would be a virtue. JMO: An open mind and some vision couldn’t hurt.
pgp3
#20 pgp3: “Any upscale places left beside the two hotels? Face it, SJ is strictly middle (and lower)class…”
Well let’s see: Scott’s Seafood, Grill on the Alley, Pagoda, McCormick and Schmicks, the Paragon, Emile’s, 7Restaurant and Lounge, Mosaic, Eulipia, PF Chang’s….etc.
Maybe you should get out of Santa Cruz a little more often. Then when you post something about San Jose you will actually know what you are talking about!
#20: The Ardizzone family solf La Pastaia a while back and Spiedo, never that good on food or service, has switched to Mexican food. Maybe the vatos locos will eat there.
#24—the death rattle for DT will be heard when they build up the “second DT” in North SJ.
#25—the new condo buildings are all practically empty. They have lowered their prices 10%. It needs to be at least a 30% reduction. Several, which used some city $$, have been given permission to switch to rentals.
PGP3 only knows about hostels.
This constant dialogue about how to make downtown into a place where people actually want to go, and to live, is hilarious. Everyone keeps throwing out things like stadiums, condos, restaurants, etc., as if those things will magically transform downtown. Well, I am sorry, but they will not. Downtown SJ is dead, and will only come back to life when a major surgery has been performed on the cancer that is destroying downtown from the inside.
You have been informed of this time and time again, yet you continue to ignore the obvious. Until San Jose International is moved to Hollister, downtown San Jose is dead. The airport itself is wasting 1000 acres that could be put too much better use. Additionally, the FAA restrictions on building in downtown have crippled the city, and as long as the airport is in place nothing will improve. Add to that the fact most people do not want to be anywhere near a noisy, polluting airport while they are at home, and/or trying to have some fun, and you have the recipe for a failed downtown.
So, keep on trying to build stadiums, condos, and restaurants to resurrect downtown. Or, continue to blame the gangsters for the lack of life in downtown. Until you accept the fact the airport is the biggest reason for the lack of life in downtown, and move it, there will never be any improvement to downtown. No matter how much money is thrown at it.
#28 Move it now,
I actually agree with part of your post. I’m a huge proponent of relocating SJC operations out of its current “downtown” site to either Gilroy/Hollister or Moffett Field. It sucks to be eating outside at Sonoma Chicken and hearing loud jetliners buzz overhead, or having a stumpy skyline of 15-20 story “skyscrapers.”
However, I stand by what I said earlier: we can’t simply sit on our hands and do nothing. Downtown is still workable even with the airport at its current spot. Just check out San Diego to the south to see a downtown flurishing with an airport close by.
Let’s build the best downtown we can for now, and later we’ll fight to move SJC operations to a more appropriate site.
Here’s to our first 50-story skyscraper!
Amazing how one restaurant closing evolves quicky into a diatribe by the varied City “engineers”. Focus on the facts first, thats enough to keep busy. My bias is that across America Cities are increasingly redeveloped on the premise that only upscale clientele matter. Only the RDA and co. could come up with something so absurd as the failed “Saigon Sushi”. Discussing with June of the belated JJ’s Blues downtown, I admonished her not to close but wait for Paseo Plaza to load up with her new customers. She told me it would have no impact. She was right, I was wrong.
SF’s most successful upscale makeover was North Beach. It evolved without subsidy. There is no better example of Client loyalty rules over wealth than Original Joe’s. Still full up even Sundays. Now engineer that!
“#25—the new condo buildings are all practically empty. They have lowered their prices 10%. It needs to be at least a 30% reduction. Several, which used some city $$, have been given permission to switch to rentals.”
Wow, are you saying there’s a housing slump amidst this economic recession? Amazing!
#26 Maybe you should do a little research yourself…Paragon no longer exists, being replaced by Mosaic…7 is very for sale…PF Chang’s is the worst performing restaurant of their chain…Eulipia is virtually deserted…Is Emile’s still open? Billy Berk’s closed for the entire 4th weekend…The downtown restaurant scene is in dire Straits (pun intended)…
#28—Lingburgh Field in DT San Diego hasn’t hurt The Gaslamp District or the rest of DT. The landing pattern is right over DT SD. Other than you, I have never heard a singlr person contend that they don’t come DT SJ because of airport noise. And the houses under the landing & takeoff patterns continue to sell. Get another rap, #28—join the other one trick pony on this site—pgp3—and push for a hostel…maybe right next to SJC.
OOOPS. I just read #29. There are now TWO people who complain about airport noise DT. But he comes, anyway, #28.
#30—where was Siagon Sushi? I guess I’m one of thousands that never heard of it. Thus, it’s demise.
#31: I was seriously considering moving from Willow Glen, where I have lived since 1980, into one of the DT medium-rises. The 88 was my favorite—good floor plans, and only 2 blocks from my office and three blocks from SJ Athletic Club. I could have turned my car in at the end of the lease, and bought a smart car for daily use, and rented a regular car when I travel. But Axis, The 88 (which share the same marketing company) and 360 residences have steadfastly refused to lower their prices to current market reality. That dominoes into lenders not lending, since they won’t appraise at the prices they were penciled out at prior to construction. The owners/marketers must have the same virus Jogn Sobrato has—keeping the building empty until a single user takes it over. But Mr. Sobrato built that building with his own $$. The condo builders have loans to repay.
#26, Reader, I stand corrected. Sorry, I must spend more time in San Jose, haven’t been back since SJSU graduation 25 years ago.
>
You might guess that I graduated in logic, but it was actually just Business Management. The logic comes naturally to us Hungarians, seems to be more difficult for some Irish like JMO.
You listed 11 upscale restaurants! Pretty good for a city of a million plus; that’s one pricey restaurant/100,000. How many will still be open a year from now? I hope you’ll let me know on 7/4/10.
We do a lot better here in DT Santa Cruz and on the Wharf. As many of you found out last weekend, restaurants here may not be too good, but all (save Taco Bell) are pricey.
Yes, San Jose could use a bunch of 50-story skyscrapers. Why not 100-story? Never mind you’re close to the Hayward Fault and fire ladders can’t reach above the 10th story. Everybody above that gets a parachute.
What’s wrong with Palo Alto? They’re far from SJC and Moffett, why aren’t they building 50-story skyscrapers? What’s wrong with those people?
Check out today’s Merc Business page 3e! Silicon Valley has 54 Million square feet commercial properties up for lease (out of 300 Million total). San Jose itself has about 17,000,000 square feet of properties for lease (and still increasing vs. 1yr.ago).
All we need to open a large 250 bed Silicon Valley urban non-profit “youth” hostel is about 25,000 square feet. That’s roughly 100/bed including dorms, family rooms, kitchen, bath rooms, reception, offices, some staff quarters, dining, meeting, laundry, bicycle storage, etc.
This would be the cheapest, most cost effective way to bring “normal” people who have some $$ in their pockets to DT every night. Why not to San Jose instead of SClara, MV, SunnyV or PA??
pgp3
#35 is correct about airport noise not being a factor. There are lots of reasons to come or stay away from DT, but airport noise is not one of them. BTW, I live near 2nd/Hensley and hear airplane noise all day. It doesn’t bother me a bit, and I love being close to the airport when I go on a flight, unless the stupid airline makes me go to SFO because of a significantly cheaper fare [pay attention, Hawaiian].
On another note, add me to the list of people who have never heard of Siagon Sushi. Of course, I’ve only lived in SJ since 2005.
regarding condo pricing, I guess it makes more sense to hold out for better times. I heard some condos are now taking renters. How are the other new condos, like the finally-completed Plant 51 doing?
Idiot, Pick just about any of the above. The reason the good places close is because of these thugs and clubbers who were in town keeping out decent people that would go to these classy restaurants, not because Tom Mcenery tired to clean them out. If it had been done sooner these places would still be open.
#35 and #36 both live in a fantasy world. Keep on dreaming, and wasting money on a lost cause. As long as the airport is downtown, then that part of San Jose is DOA. Unfortunately for both of you, the majority of the population does not have your absurd ideas, and will never move DT until the airport is gone. If they did agree with you then we would not be having this discussion. The residents of Santa Clara County have spoken loud and clear.
Actually, I suspect that after the RDA runs out of money to throw at DT then DT will end up (again) like East San Jose has from Reid-Hillview. DT was already like that until the RDA started throwing billions into DT during the 80s, so that did slow its decline down some, but obviously did not stop it. Why didn’t all the RDA money fix DT? Because very few people want to live, or be near, an airport if they do not have to.
Okay, so back to APs…. I will miss AP Stumps, Jim Stump and the Pavicich’s commitment to the community. They have share venue with numerous charities throughout the years and thier kindness will not be forgotten.
oh yeah, sorry Darlene, I will miss AP Stumps too….
-DKH
Perhaps one reason why so many people who bash DT are not from DT is because they are sick and tired of all the RDA $$ going to DT, while the rest of the city sees service declines and while city worker retirement benefits threaten to bankrupt the city.
JMO/JG-
Aw come on now, the rest of San Jose is for “Losers and Lowlifes” why should we spend money there?
Regardless, the way our govt spends our money is a legitimate thing to bash but it is not what I am referring to. It is the characterization by many of the trolls on the board that downtown SJ is a thug filled wasteland that I object to.
-DKH
Yes, SJC should move so that 150 story skyscrapers can be built DT San Jose.
Moffett is too close, Morgan Hill too far away.
The ideal site for the new airport is on top of Loma Prieta Mountain. The planes will be 2000 feet closer to their cruising altitude, thus saving much fuel costs, making new SJC the cheapest Bay area airport to fly out of.
Some people might prefer top of Mt. Hamilton but the telescope is in the way. Naturally I’d prefer Loma Prieta since it’s closer to my home in Surf City USA.
One minor problem is that on rare occasions it snows on the mountain, but with a few snowplows or a solar heating system this should be no big problem.
The only downside is that when this plan becomes successful then Oakland might move their airport to top of Mt. Diablo and SFO will end up atop Mt. Tomalpais.
Some of the stuff I’ve read on this blog is even further far out.
Why is it that the majority of people who bash DT don’t live here?
The bashers all seem so angry about it too.
“DT is for losers and lowlife’s” I remember reading that quote form some poster a while back. Why the hate?
I’ve lived here since 02’(Paseo Villas), I like it a lot and so do my neighbors (and if you polled the residents of The Colonnade/Paseo Plaza/Paseo Villas/New Century apartmemnts/101 San Fernando I bet you will find a lot of people who feel the same way).
Restaurants and retail stores are closing everywhere right now, not just in DT. It is just the times.
I fail understand how posting negative comments about DT really accomplishes anything.
-DKH
Perhaps much of the criticism of DT that you label “bashing” is the legitimate objection by taxpayers that so many tax dollars are used downtown while the streets, sidewalks, sewers, trees, and parks out here in Undowntownland fall further into disrepair and neglect.
Seems to me that if any real, substantive bashing is being done, it’s the 90% of San Jose that ISN’T downtown that is the true “bashee”.
I don’t know pgp3, OAK on Mt. Diablo makes about as much sense as SJC in Hollister.
pgp3,
I think your idea has merit. Let’s put Rod Diridon to work on it.
The new airport could be financed by simply raising library overdue fines from the current .25/day per item to $25,000/day per item.
The land that SJC currently occupies could be converted into a vast, first of it’s kind Lead Hazard Awareness Museum. This would attract visitors from around the world, generating revenue. That revenue would be loaded into howitzers and shot in the general direction of downtown. Eventually, after being bombarded with enough money, San Jose’s downtown would achieve it’s true destiny as the most fabulous downtown in the entire universe.
#34: I take your point regarding Paragon. Too bad it closed. It was a good restaurant.
My point was to tell that Santa Cruz wanker (whose idea of a good restaurant are those tourist traps on the Santa Cruz warf) that despite his proclamations DTSJ does have any number of good restaurants.
By the way, I was in Eulipia about 5 weeks ago and it was quite busy, and as good as ever. Emile’s had a change of owners (Emile is no longer there, I’m told) but last time I was there the food and service were still excellent. Truth be told, I’m more of a La Victoria kind of guy but I make a point to go to nicer places too.
There is no question that, as you say, the downtown restaurant scene is struggling. But be fair, this is true of most restaurants everywhere in the current recession. Even in the best of times many new restaurants fail within a few years. It’s a tough business.
Ideally, DTSJ should have a variety of restaurants, from upscale to lovable dives. It would be great, but probably not legal, to keep fast food chains out.
But more important, when customers enter and exit the restaurant they should not be subjected to drunks, lines of cops, and an image that resembles more of a riot zone than a nice night out on the town.
Move the airport to Hollister? It would make more sense to move the nightclubs to Hollister!