The presence of police downtown is becoming more and more of an issue after the recent shootings. Most people who live or work in central San Jose consider the presence of police officers in their neighborhoods to be an unmitigated positive. They are disciplined, courteous, respectful, and a deterrent to unpleasant occurrences—all in all, something that law-abiding citizens desire.
While concerns over the recent nightclub shootings have produced a state of shock in many, there is another group—composed of five or six club owners, and their assorted mouthpieces and lobbyists—who maintain that there are too many police officers downtown. This is the parallel universe of our city, operating by its own crazy, illogical and dangerous rules. Sometimes, it is even supported by those who should know better in the Downtown Association.
There are some voices who maintain that the police department is now profiling certain ethnic groups in central San Jose, the most diverse area in our region. This argument and accusation falls of its own weight. All people are and should be welcomed downtown; it has always been that way. The only exceptions are troublemakers and those who want to commit violence—there is no room for them anywhere in our city.
The chief of police clearly knows the correct course to be taken; the city council and Cindy Chavez are crystal clear on the dangerous crises we are facing. Action appears to be imminent, and I hope that it is thoughtful and far reaching. The usual gnashing of teeth and wailing will occur, but do not be confused or concerned by such histrionics. There is only one color that is pertinent to these types and that is the color of money: green.
We are at a key moment for San Jose. Decades of efforts and dreams of thousands are now jeopardized by a few irresponsible nightclub owners and their apologists and paid hacks. We must not allow this to continue. At this crossroads in our city’s history we can not afford to choose the wrong road.
I the following statement laughable: “There are some voices who maintain that the police department is now profiling certain ethnic groups in central San Jose, the most diverse area in our region. This argument and accusation falls of its own weight. “
This is simply and unfounded and conclusory statement. How is it that you no profiling (racial or ethnic) is not occurring? Obviously, you have not been an young Latino or African-American in downtown.
Tom,
I think you and the Police are absolutely right on this issue and I’m glad that Cindy Chavez is taking a leadership position.
TravelinJ
To suggest that cops in any big city don’t profile is to dismiss what everyone who has been subjected to profiling knows all too well: what you look like can make you suspect. It happened to me several decades ago when my hair was a bit too long to suit the cops in Berkeley. It happened once when I was in the company of an African-American friend in Brentwood, which was then and remains a conspicuously affluent and extremely white section of the LA Basin. I’ve seen it happen to my Latino friends in places like Newport Beach. And yes, I’ve seen it happen to people of color in dear old San Jose. Where have you been, Tom? You need to venture out of the Rose Garden more often.
Hey Gus,
Do you really think the police would do profiling for the hell of it? If there’s any profiling being done, it’s because there’s a history of certain types that cause all the trouble. You all need to curb your urges to cry foul at the drop of a hat and focus on what is best for the downtown and the rest of the city. A thug is a thug, period. They come in all colors, Gus. They have no place in any part of this town and anyone who rushes to their defense doesn’t either.
For those of us who have somehow missed Cindy’s “leadership” on this issue, perhaps someone could fill us in on what she has done.
WHen I first read these blogs I thought how interesting, people actually taking a real interest in whats best for SJ. I can tell the different age groups who write thier opinion. What I see is a bunch of self righteous idiots.
Come on, things might be getting bad down town, but adding more police or changing the way club/business owners do business will not change anything.
I’ve been downtown at night and there are a lot of cops on the streets and it makes it looks like a hostile enviroment due to sirens or just the red and blue lights lighting up the street.
There are a bunch of unsavory people roaming the streets at night, but just because they look like trouble makers to you, may not be up to no good.
Ive seen the number of cops increase over the years…its not working, try something new. Set up cameras downtown, crack down on the real thugs and idiots causing the trouble. it worked in troubled areas in SF why not our downtown?
Gee, I wonder if 3 separate groups firing 50 shots with the police in clear view, injuring three citizens, qualifies as a crisis. There are only a few places, large nightclubs, making downtown a dangerous place – deal with those and people can go back to living their lives and working their businesses. It is a significant problem, but a correctable one. And to respond to a earlier post, I live and work in the Downtown,not the Rosegarden. I know the real world well. TMcE
Tom,
Are the current police tactics working? If not, why not?
I don’t think that anyone seriously disputes the need for a police presence downtown, nor the fact that there are troublemakers who make that presence necessary.
However the massive showing of force and profiling (yes, Tom it happens) by police seems to ultimately be as bad for downtown as the troublemakers. Who wants to go downtown in such an environment?
Those tactics need to be re-considered without clouding the issue by suggesting that those who question SJPD’s tactics are somehow anti-police. We all want a peaceful downtown. I just don’t want to be ordered off the streets when the only “crime” I’m committing is patronizing legitimate downtown businesses.
I think you have identified the other part of the problem. Some of the downtown clubs tend to attract troublemakers. There are administrative ways to control these problems through permits, licenses, etc. Fortunately if there is one area in which San Jose government excels it is creating red tape for business owners. It should be a slam dunk!
Arturo, as someone who grew up in the Rosegarden I can tell you it is much more integrated than you think. There are low riders and code violations right around the corner from University Avenue if you look closely enough. Willow Glen isn’t much different. Your comment is more appropriate for Almaden Valley.
Try this one on for size: When I lived in Santa Monica for a while, I usually took streets to get over to Hollywood and this involved cutting through Beverly Hills. Since I am caucasian, it wasn’t me that was profiled and stopped by cops, it was my 15 year old Ford Galaxie which was needing a new muffler.
Knowing I had done nothing wrong, I had no issue with the cop and I intended to get the exhaust work done anyway. The stop was brief and I was not cited.
I have also been stopped in Santa Clara while driving with a friend in my old pick-up. It turns out there had been a burglary in the area and so the cop asked a few questions and then we were on our way again.
The cops are just doing their job if you ask me, excepting those who are bad cops and are in the job only to push people around due to their own unresolved insecurities. Those are the ones EVERYBODY needs to worry about. I think shots being fired is a good reason for the cops to display a show of force. But Tom is right when he says get rid of the attractions and the losers will find somewhere else to cause trouble.
It seems to me that business owners and Downtown Association have a lot to say about how things are handled downtown.
Please suggest workable downtown solutions to what is a complex problem rather than more rants / tired generalizations ( even if there are somwhat true ) if you REALLY want to solve the problems OR maybe those that continously rant / vent are doing it since they lack real solutions or ideas
#6’s comment that we should consider downtown cameras in the problems areas is a good one. It may not prevent all the crimes but will make identifing the problem people easier and document the problems at relatively little cost and take some of the emotional generalizations / rants out of our conversation.
Help is on the way – We will soon have 2 new group of downtown neighborhood activists –
New high rise downtown residents who after paying high prices for their condos or apartments will want their neighborhood to be safe, clean and have retail, resturants etc and if not will quicly organize to demand the city coordinate it’s activities to solve the downtown problems caused by a few and improve their downtown neighborhood
Business / developer community will aslo demand solutions since they want to sell more downtown condos / apartments
When I heard of the plan to develop Coyote Valley my first reaction was…Why?
If there is this urgent need to build something, then erect a beautiful downtown “Eastside San Jose.” It could feature clubs, and a block or two to cruise around.
Problem solved.
Yeah, I agree with Phil #5—what positions has Coindy taken, let alone leadership positions?She’s MIA as far as I’m concerned, and I read the paper and listen to the local news on several radio stations every day.
So, Tom, you repeat that everyone knows just a few club owners are the center of all the bad stuff. So, for the clueless guys like me, name them, so I can avoid them. Indeed we all should avoid them. Don’t worry, truth is an absolute defense.
Nothing stops a trouble spot like a silent cash register.
And if us law-abiding folks don’t go there, the cops can profile the hell out of the troublemakers that do, and shut them down.
What ever happened to conditional use permits?
Taxi Lady: Don’t we already have that—The Mexican Heritage Plaza? But no-one goes there, and its losing money.
JM – the 3 shootings occurred outside the Ambassador/Beehive Club – a murder occurred there two yrs. ago. The Deep is another spot w. the same or similiar ownership. They change names like Bush changes Supreme Ct. nominees. We need, and expect, the Chief of Police to get the power to cut thru the aliases and get to the problem people. TMcE
Racial profling or whatever you want to call it is necessary. If you aren’t doing anything wrong, than you shouldn’t bothered that someone is stopping you. If they take it too far, that is another story entirely, but is that what is being suggested here?
I think those nightclubs are appaling because they don’t care about anyone or anything. We need a no cruising, no loud muisc out of cars and no nightclub setting. Help barts and restaurants, not clubs!
JMOConnor has good points p name names and take action
If the problem clubs and propety owners who have liquor licenses and rent to problem temporary clubs operators are known.
Then why has the Downtown Business Association and the Chamber not pushed San Jose’s police, fire and code enforcement department and California’s ABC to take action as happens in other cities?
Yes, we have heard many times they are understaffed and underfunded but these seem like serious public safety problems
Any insider know the answer to why no action?
#10 & #18
I guess the business situation in downtown is so dire such that they will take in any investor and any customer in whatever shape or form. City Hall, SJPD, Downtown Association, and the Chamber are just crossing their fingers now- hoping that the situation is kept under control until it eventually becomes a viable place.
I agree with Mike Jones comment about security cameras. I saw an interesting item on the news 2 nights ago. Oakland has installed security cameras at six high crime locations in downtown. They are attached to the sides of buildings and are in plain sight. Suddenly crime in those areas has dropped dramatically. When a crime does occur, the tape goes directly to the district attorney for prosecution. Sure, the crime will then move elsewhere, outside of the range of the cameras. But, the areas they want safer, are now safer. What everyone needs to remember is that whatever is done in downtown to make it safer, it will not reduce crime overall. It will only move it. Who knows, it may move into your neighborhood or mine.
Wow, how did SingleGal get her own tab? Anyways, I think she’s ingenious, what else is going to attract people to downtown but the opposite sex.
Thats what I been saying all along! ….Mike I agree with you on the camera deal. London is a perfect example. Nothing else has worked and its time to do something new.
Why does Scott Knies, executive director of the San Jose Downtown Association, feel the need to make snide remarks about San Jose residents:
“For suburbanites who never leave their cul-de-sacs, downtown is going to be very different for them…”
Yes, most San Jose residents are suburbanites but the loudest criticism of the nightclubs downtown is coming from Tom McEnery who LIVES AND WORKS downtown.
A few (?) words on racial profiling:
When the cops assemble in response to a specific event and then disproportionately stop people of one race who are dressed in a distinct fashion and whose vehicles are customized in a telltale style, is that racial profiling? What about when the police locate themselves at specific times and places for no other reason than to target a particular group of citizens they fear are going to cause destruction and injury?
To those of you who, when reading the preceding, envisioned carloads of lowriding Hispanics pulled-over along East Santa Clara, or clusters of penitentiary-posturing young blacks being searched for who-knows-what reason, I say this: congratulations, you’ve been taught to think like sheep and you’ve learned your lessons well.
The good news is that by jumping to an emotional, everything-is-race conclusion you’ve met the first qualification for a job in journalism. The bad news is that until the day that young men get drunk and stupid in multicultural crowds, or thugs embrace diversity in their gangs, your cries of racism will do no good other than to insulate criminals, intimidate effective law enforcement, and doom the downtown and certain neighborhoods to general lawlessness and gang violence.
Returning to the opening paragraph, that first scenario occurs every year when the bikers roll into Hollister to pretend they’re rugged individualists. The cops rack-up truly impressive numbers of citations and arrests, but no one seems to think it significant that the majority of those caught are white, or dressed in biker garb, or riding tricked-out Harleys.
The second scenario occurs each morning and evening of the work week, and the citizens targeted are commuters—the most aggressively targeted group (class) of citizens in America. No, they are not targeted for their race or gender or national origin. They are targeted due to the misconduct of a few: driving dangerously fast, tailgating, running red lights, etc. Ever notice that on days when there is no commute that army of traffic cops evaporates? Isn’t that evidence of selective enforcement? Where’s the ACLU? This could be the ONE profiling case they’ve longed to make in the Bay Area.
If racial profiling isn’t assumable when the violators are disproportionately white, it isn’t assumable when those stopped are disproportionately brown or black. And if its police work as usual when the targets are driving a commute car, it’s police work as usual when the targets are driving lowriders.
Unsubstantiated claims of racial profiling have been granted an undeserved stature. Absent hard evidence the claims are meaningless; meaningless, that is, unless we are going to rush to support the kids in college towns who believe cops target them “because they are students,” or the speeders caught in rural towns who feel the cops are trapping “non-resident” motorists, or the Porsche dweebs who suspect the cops pick on them out of “envy.” Having had a bad experience(s) with the police does not, on its own, qualify anyone as a victim. Lots of people have bad experiences with the cops, which is no more surprising than the fact that lots of people have bad experiences with the IRS, collection agencies, and the DMV.
The “once I was stopped for no reason” whining works only when we listen. It proves nothing and we need to stop reacting to it and so does our government. Unless PROVEN otherwise—and there are lawyers aplenty for the truly wronged—the cop on the beat deserves to be assumed to be doing nothing more than just his very difficult job.
The Beehive and Deep just need to be moved off of San Pedro and down to another district in downtown if the San Pedro area and Barry Swenson’s new high rise condos on San Pedro are going to succeed. No one wants to go out to a nice dinner and then have to walk through our equivalent of Hunter’s Point.
The clubs mentioned are night clubs who have changed format, but attacking or shutting down these places dont solve anything. people will go into other places down town. I think we should focus on reducing crime not the night life.
want a list of scary night clubs on the weekend? here you go…
Agenda
toons
voodoo lounge
sj bar & grill
and what are all those people at the VTA station doing hanging out at all hours?
i too heard of the shooting over at ambassador. i have to agree with tom that this sh*t is a crisis, c’mon that can never be seen as normal in san jose. you older folks dont know, but one of the owners of that club is a big rap star who doesn’t even live in san jose and club deep is ran by a couple of amateurs promoters with no real nightclub experience. i have lived in san jose all my dam life and i have to say san jose is much better now than 10 to 15 years ago. long story short tho, be like london, put up indiscreet street/security cameras and lessen the Uniformed Police and increase undercover officers.
After reading all these posts I finally have to say something.
1. The downtown area is NOT safe. Without fail every time I have been downtown on a weekend night I have seen some gangster punk start a fight either with another gangster punk or with some SJSU student or bar patron. I have lived in a number of major cities and by far I feel more uncomfortable walking late at night in downtown San Jose than I ever did in Chicago, Boston or Washington, DC. I can only imagine what it must be like for a women to have to fear walking alone in this area.
2. Profiling is not an issue. The police are simply focusing on the groups causing the trouble. If the trouble makers were groups of whites starting fights and harassing people then they would be focused on. The groups causing the trouble are groups of young Black men (many coming from out of town) and Hispanic men (don’t be blind to the Norteno and Sureno issues facing this area).
3. Where does this leave the people who aren’t looking to fight or cause trouble? They flee the downtown area. I for one when I go out, go to Los Gatos, Palo Alto or SF, places that feel safer and places where as a professionals in my late 20’s can go and not get harassed.
4. Why are their no restaurants open late or even good outdoor places to hangout in downtown San Jose? Because the crowds from the downtown clubs for the owners or would be owners of any such places to shut their doors early. As for the weekend days try to walk downtown on the weekend it’s a ghost town, just homeless people and vagrants. This is sad as most downtown’s you can walk sit outside eat breakfast, get a coffee and enjoy a day off.
5. I feel bad for the Students at San Jose State, they miss out on having nice college bars to hang out in. Instead the college women have to fear crowds of disrespectful men and the college men have to watch their step and their tongues because of all the gangster life that has rolled into the bars. Instead these students retreat to bars in areas like Los Gatos, and instead of being in walking distance of their homes, must then be diligent about not drinking and driving.
Or they retreat to Fraternity houses around campus which from my understanding must hire SJSU cops to help keep out unwanted guests because more gangsters try to crash their parties and start fights. I know that at least two times in the last year that SJSU students were “jumped” and assaulted by non-students in and around campus and on another occasion members of a fraternity were stabbed by non-students who were lingering in the area trying to get into college parties.
6. won’t even start to complain about the half-way houses and all the rapists, and mentally deranged peoples wandering around the greater downtown area. We have the highest rate of sex offenders in and around SJSU and the downtown area this is not going to help create a friendly downtown vide. Many of them wander downtown panhandling and yelling at locals. Others roam the SJSU campus bothering students, asking for handouts and eroding at the safety the campus should provide to students. I had the unfortunate experience of trying to spend the day in the new MLK library at SJSU to do some reading and research and had to move twice due to the stench of the homeless person or vagrant who had decided to sit near me. I am sure that helps the SJSU students with their studies, I doubt they have to deal with this at Cal, Stanford or UC Davis.
I could continue to write, but it seems that anyone that speaks the truth is hunted by the Political Correct Police and labeled a racist, bigot, or closed minded. Instead I am just an honest citizen who is disappointed with the leadership in the city where I reside. I hope that eventually the city cleans up downtown, creating a place where I could actually take friends or business partners without having to worry about their safety.
ooops posted in the wrong area.
i was reading in the mercury today regarding our blog here about the nightclub scene, and a idea came up regarding extending the club hours beyond 2am. the alcohol will still not be served after 2am but let the clubs to stay open later to allow people to sober up. not a bad idea if you consider the situation right now. over 5000 people frequent the nightclubs every weekend, and to shut down at exactly at 2am and force that many people onto the street all at once is dam near insane and honestly as the population grows can you imagine the 2am exit situation with 10,000 people instead of 5,000.
Mike (#20),
I made that sujestion in the other post, but was ignored and maybe even cybered jumped by all the people who dont have or want to experience a night life close to home. Much easier for the SJPD to manage in my opinion, may even reduce the number of DUI’s allowing people sober up if they decide to have a drink. It will not be a mess on the way out of some of the bars. im glad someone was listening.
Downtown is not providing ““suburbanites” a reason to go downtown and buy
All the downtown groups should work together to improve downtown and are the best ones to solve downtowns problems and improve
the ” suburbanites” customer expereince if downtown is to be successful
Lately it seems that there are disageements about public safety, what businesses are appropritate, how customers behave or are treated along with the histroical lack of unique products, services or entertainment that cistomers expect in downtowns
Scott Kness comment is a potentially troubling downtown attitude
“For suburbanites who never leave their cul-de-sacs, downtown is going to be very different for them”
after thinking his comment it either shows
– a major misunderstand about who are downtown’s potential customers and what needs to be done to attract them to buy products, services and entertainment in a safe envirnonment and if so is part of the reason downtown is unsuccessful and you potential customers go to Los Gatos, Palo Alto, San Francisco or other large city downtowns
is a incomplete or not well thought out quote or
is both inappropriate and incorrect since many of the “suburbanites” have and will in the future enjoy living in large cities and frequently shop or visit large cities for unique products, services or entertainment that are not available in downtown San Jose
Ask many of the “suburbanites” when they were in San Francisco. Seattle, Portland, Austin or another large city’s downtown spend money and enjoyed the downtown experience.
It may surprize you
Downtown San Jose does not offer what we want or an envirnoment we will come to, so we go elsewhere Scott just look at Santana Row as what downtown could have been if the downtown was organized and focused on the ““suburbanites” who hve some of the highest incomes in the US which downtown is not attracting
#27 – Scott Knies’s comment was ridiculous & not exactly the kind of reinforcement that will bring more people downtown. His lack of leadership is part of the reason that downtown has gotten to this state that it in.
I feel sorry for the people who are truly victims of racial profiling because the people who are gang members & weapons carriers are using you as an excuse for their behavior.
I welcome more police protection downtown, they just need to be given the power to do their jobs properly and not tip toe around the troublemaking clubs for fear of “racial profiling” claims.
Unfortunately “angry citizen” is dead on with his complaints. It’s sad that youngish professionals who work in downtown feel like they have to go to San Francisco for a normal decent social scene.
The problem is not so much the unseemly clubs, but that they are so spread out around downtown, ruining all of downtown. Put all those clubs in one area for people who comfortable in that scene, and then have another area that is a bit more upscale. It seemed like that was what San Pedro Square was trying to start, and then they put Deep in on their own street and shot themselves in the foot.
There needs to be some separation is all. The people that hang out in Pacific Heights are not the same people who hang out in South SF, yet they both coexist in the same city. That’s what downtown San Jose needs, and until that happens, it’s Santana Row or LG or PA or SF that will be getting the free spending young professional $$$$
Tom #16:
Thanks for the 4-1-1. I happened to read about Ambassador—how many times has it changed hands in the last 10 years?—in the Murky News this a.m.
Anyway, I thought that Ambassador and The Deep drew two different crowds. Isn’t The Deep an Asian/primarily Vietnamese crowd? Isn’t Ambassador primarily a black hip hop crowd? No commonality there, except for thugism in a small group of patrons. I remain unconvinced that the vast majority of any group are the troublemakers; but instead we have a few bad apples in every crowd that screw it up for the rest of us.
Don’t both clubs draw a lot of folks from outside Santa Clara County? So how do we isolate the small group of bad apples and keep them out of town?
Whatever happened to conditional use permits with lots of restrictions? Can’t we stop this well short of police action by requiring real owners—not straw men—to put their names on the line and carry very hefty insurance to cover the inevitable disasters as one of the conditions in the permit? Can’t we place restritctions that will shut them down in a HEARTBEAT if they violate the conditions of the conditional use permit? Can’t we issue non-transferable (without full vetting) conditional use permits, so that straw-men owners can’t pull this crap any more?
Would someone explain to me how a city that has this many clubs in such a small area is not going to have to do something to manage the fallout that occurs at 2am when a bunch of drug and alcohol partiers are let loose on the streets. What is the police department not doing to respond to the problem. Drunk and disorderly at 2am used to be actionable by the police. Whats wrong with stopping groups of young males who are acting unruly and making sure they are sober. I don’t call that profiling I call it keeping the peace.
There have been many statements here that, if they reflect the opinions of the majority of citizens, which they probably do, would indicate that everybody is sick and tired of the race issue being a third rail item that will never be brought to the table in discussions involving ridding the downtown or any other part of town of thugs who have nothing but contempt for laws that maintain civility and and a safe environment for the enlightened and law-abiding citizens of SJ.
It’s time for some backbone among this town’s, indeed this entire country’s leaders to reel in this out of control race issue that is allowing minority habitual criminals to cry foul when appropriately charged with having commited yet another crime. Currently these thugs are laughing all the way home from Bad Boys Bail Bonds and advertising to their fellow thugs/gang members that sport crime definitely does pay, maybe not in hard dollars but more likely in elevated stature in their misguided hierarchy.
Enough is enough. When are we going to stop tip-toeing around this issue? Is it going to take a revolt? Is the dreaded “N” word going to re-surface in order to get something done? No, not that “N” word, but the one everybody associates with that goose-stepping German guy with the funny little moustache. Freedom carries a ton of responsibility along with it. The irresponsible types are making a mockery of everything this country stands for and if we law abiding types don’t do something about it we’re all going down with them when the system implodes.
The always helpful Rick Callendar spoke out about this in the Mercury News for November 3. His total analysis?
<< “Clearly there are some racial overtones,’’ said Rick Callendar, president of the NAACP in San Jose. “Whenever you have a gathering of large number of African-Americans or a large number of Latinos, the reality is people get nervous. We continue to live under old stereotypes that people need to get past.” >>
What about getting past shootings & mayhem? The always helpful Rick Callendar has nothing to say.
Anyone been by Deep this morning? Looks like they’re prepping security for another war weekend. There were about 20 to 30 security bouncer types already there.
Follow-up to Club Owner (#37):
Monday’s Merc carried a small item reporting a melee involving fights and gunshots at the Rosewater Hall out on Murphy last Saturday night. What happened there was nothing new: a promoter had scammed the banquet hall manager into booking a “black fraternity” event when in reality the plan was to hold a handbill-promoted hip-hop party for fans throughout the Bay Area too young or poor or uncivilized for the club scene. Such promotions are certain to attract some of the worst elements the Bay Area has to offer (many show-up just to hang and bang in the parking lot), but for the hit and run entrepreneur, if he can escape with the gate before the shooting starts, whatever happens to the innocent is not his concern.
The fraternity ruse has been in use for at least a decade, a desperation tactic made necessary by the hip-hop sub-culture’s dreaded reputation—one that, even in the incredibly tolerant and forgiving Bay Area, has exhausted every ounce of goodwill. “Just say no” has become the first line of defense for venue managers terrified of the same young, black gunmen now causing problems downtown.
Absent a huge venue (like the Arena) and the army of cops needed to make it safe for those out to enjoy themselves, hip-hop has very few places to go. Small wonder that San Jose clubs—with security forces who work hard to provide a safe environment—have no trouble attracting their target market from all over the Bay Area. Thus, it is no surprise that when the thug element is looking to settle a score or make a move, San Jose’s club scene is often on their itinerary.
The downtown is experiencing a confluence no planner intended. Neither the club owners nor the overwhelming majority of their customers want this violence. But “want” has to go out the window when twenty-five to forty shots are fired. There weren’t that many gunshots fired at the OK Corral. If twenty-five to forty gunshots isn’t enough to set the police chief’s hair on fire then what is? If twenty-five to forty gunshots aren’t enough to shake Rick Callendar out of his racism-racism-racism trance, then the black community needs to recognize that his message is going to get some of their kids killed.
If twenty-five to forty shots isn’t enough, then I guess we’ll just have to wait for the thug’s aim to improve and for them to shoot dead enough people to grab the nation’s headlines, send our government leaders scurrying, and drive every last decent person out of the downtown.
RGCLF?
what help does your #40 comment to the problem?
#39, why do you tie in the comment about African americans and latinos to shooting and mayhem? dont be an idiot, It sounds to me that you are proving Rick Callendars point.
It’s simple George, it means the scene is staying on San Pedro Street. Or as quoted in the Merc:
“Several employees of businesses at adjacent San Pedro Square said they didn’t know what happened until they heard it on the news. But they weren’t surprised, given the throngs of people who go to the Ambassador’s Lounge and Deep, a club right across the street.
“It was bound to happen,’’ said Marcello America, a part owner of Peggy Sue’s restaurant.”
When owners aren’t surprised about gunshots and the guy who actually got shot wasn’t surprised and considered it merely a “nuisance” that he had been shot in the abdomen, then changes to the street need to happen. And a few security guards aren’t going to do the trick.
Yeah, I drove by about 8:45 a.m., and I saw a whole bunch of thugs with Security jackets on.
Santana Row and PA are insignificant rut. They’re so tiny and not real urban. Downtown SJ is a ghetto of all race of people, including white. Don’t get it wrong! I embrace all different race of people, and I’m not a racist at all. I’m referring to the criminal elements of people in downtown SJ. They flash colors and threaten everyone, and that’s a fact! It’s not the matter of race. It’s the matter of roving thugs of different race terrorizing people, including white thugs beating people up in downtown SJ. Downtown SJ is plague with troublemakers. I’m moving to San Diego where downtown is so nice and urbanized with all the big city trappings. San Jose has no big city future! San Jose is a cowtown loser! By the way, I great friends of all different races. We all share the same economic opportunities. The people in downtown SJ are lazy and have nothing to do but harrass people. See ya!
Bye, smurf. Can’t wait any sooner for you to leave.
Bye, smurf. Keep in touch. But what an illiterate final post.
I own a nightclub. We rarely book hip hop shows anymore. When compared to other types of entertainment, on average, they resulted in more violence and destruction/defacement of club property. The personal risk to our patrons and the financial burden just were not worth it. Sad but true. Talk to almost any club owner or cop and you’ll hear the same.
I don’t think anyone wants to reduce the number of officers on the street at closing time: what does need to be reduced is the military state-esque tactics that are used between 1-2. There are more effective ways for the police to be dispersed without seeming so hostile and menacing- officers on foot patrolling, even the mounted police -used extensively in Austin, where the police and city officials recognize that nightclubs are good for the economy.
I’d love to:
A)see a nightclub owner held accountable if they are a trouble spot
B) see the city realize that nightclubs contribute to the tax base downtown, and that nightlife is what makes a city urban, hip- and combined with more traditional cultural/arts groups is what drives tourism and ultimately brings the buyers of the new downtown condo wave. If they wanted Almaden Valley, they’d move there. They want coffee shops, and farmers markets, and liveliness and that particular feeling of being in the city.
C) see the cruisers actually get ticketed
d) see rational, reasonable police tactics at closing time that engender respect and a feeling of safety instead of fear, coersion, and distrust.
JohnMichael, I hope you’re learning alot from your mentor, Evaristo, whatever his name is. Remember, you should never begin a sentence with “And” or “But”. You know what? We all make mistakes, unfortunately. Apparently, Evaristo is your excellent grammer teacher. Now, It’s time to say “bye”! I can’t hardly wait to get out of this suburban town with its evil and isolated suburban culture. Bye from this arm pit of the U.S.!
There has been much mention on this blog of the unpleasant tactics used by the police at bar closing time. Although I haven’t witnessed this myself, there is no disputing the fact that most of the complaints alleging this have been thoughtful and, thus, have a ring of credibility about them.
I recall, a few years ago, that substantial changes were made in the way the clubs were policed following a recommendation by the city’s police auditor. The change, as reported in the newspaper, ended the decades-old practice of each club hiring its own off-duty cops and replaced it with the impersonal, downtown-wide tactical approach (by on-duty officers) that are now generating complaints. It was reported back then that the change was very much opposed by the cops and the club owners, both of whom contended that the old system made for a relaxed and often mutually respectful relationship between the cops, the club staff, and the clientele (I do remember one club on W. Santa Clara that appeared to have an all-black contingent of cops to handle its black clientele).
At the time of the change I remember thinking that the auditor had made a very poor case for her plan—I don’t recall that graft was suspected (in any case, there certainly were no prosecutions publicized). When the change was made I wondered why the city would listen to someone who had no experience policing a downtown instead of those who were experts (we pay the chief and his top guys a lot of money for their know-how). The “new and improved” system did involve some type of fee paid to the city, so maybe that was motive enough for the council. Who knows?
Anyway, it seems to me that the martial law approach that everyone is complaining about is the legacy of the police auditor’s desperate attempt to justify her position (and maybe get the publicity she needed for the judgeship she coveted—and got).
“Club Owner,” if you’re still out there, any comment?
I happen to work for the San Jose Police Department as a Police Data Specialist in the records unit. I read all the reports that come in from down town. I KNOW the good the bad and the ugly, and it aint pretty. I’m telling you, the police DO have to be down there. And you know what? I’m glad they are because I feel just a little bit safer.
Girl from the Net:
No one is saying that the police shouldn’t be downtown. Where did you see that? The point is that police presence should work with customers (and yes, that is what people getting out of a nightclub at 2 am are) instead of intimidating them. I think that all would agree that lawlessness and mayhem are not the objective of a productive, healthy downtown.
You sound more than a bit fearful, and while you may work for SJPD and thus be a bit more biased on that side, let me give you some advice on how a woman does NOT get messed with when she walks around downtown, at any hour of the day or night:
Don’t. React. At. All.
walk tall and proudly, and not fearfully. Despite what you would like to believe, there are not gunmen around every corner. Again, like a chorus, this is the safest big city in San Jose. Safer than SF, safer than Oakland, safer than NYC….get it? If you act like a victim, then to a potential predator you are easy prey.
Remember that there are dozens if not hundreds of people in the vincinity. Yell, scream, make a scene. You’ll be heard.
I seem to recall that you posted that you don’t come out late at night downtown. so I’m not sure what kind of qualified input you have, except that you review paperwork and data for the PD. Good job, thumbs up, thank you, but please get some hands on experience before you generalize based on your imagination and the musings of a few bloggers, myself included.
48 & 50. It is reasonable to question the “massive show of force” tactics SJPD uses to clear the streets when the clubs close. Clearly this tactic is part of the problem downtown if for no other reason it contributes to a hostile environment that keeps non-troublemakers (otherwise known as paying customers) away.
Unfortunately, as we have seen here, any time someone questions police tactics they are labeled as anti-police, and we end up reading a lot of off-the-mark commentary such as “…the police DO need to be down there…” etc.
Why are people so afraid to analyze this problem in an honest manner?
Does anyone know how things went downtown Saturday night? With all the publicity this past week I’ll bet the clubs went all-out to keep a lid on things.
Check out these selected quotes from San Jose Magazine’s November issue about downtown San Jose:
“The people working in San Jose’s hospitality and entertainment industries hear it all the time: ‘I wish this could be my downtown.’”
REALLY!? What people are they? And are the guests from South Central L.A., compared to which our downtown may be peaceful?
“They can also enjoy the sidewalks void of litter…”
“and while other big cities talk tough, San Jose walks the talk [huh? walks the talk?], providing safety and a feeling of security to everyone traversing its well-planned [yup, the author really said that] and extremely walkable dowtown streets.”
On it gushes: “Guests crave a downtwon such as San Jose’s…They get excited about the mix of old and new buildings [the empty ones or the full ones?]…”
“Retailers are already seeing a transformation…creating a buzz from people all over the region who are eager [get that, “eager”] to come to downtown to make purchases.” What invisible people is the writer talking about?
There was no byline on the article. A wise choice, since the writer would have been deluged with commentary asking what he/she is smoking.
Why even bother referencing SJ mag. It’s just a puff piece lacking in any journalistic integrity. It’s a fantasy publication for people who wished they lived somewhere else and like to pretend that San Jose is something it is not.
You might as read stuff from the ConVis Bureau—it’s just as lacking in journalistic integrity but at least it doesn’t pretend to be a legitimate publication.
Pov,
Quite a few people have mentioned in past blogs that they thought there were just way to much cops downtown and there really was no reason for it. My post simply was to say that the cops are needed down there and alot of people think it is safe down there because they don’t know the half of everything that goes on down there. Believe or not, I to was once 25, and I did hang out in downtown till 3am in the morning all the time. I never once was accosted or bothered. I always felt safe. But maybe others haven’t been so lucky. Your right, perhaps I am a little biased now that I work for the SJPD. Least now I don’t have the vail over my eyes.
Ernesto,
I’m sorry that I gave the impression that I think those who question police tactics are anti cop. That wasn’t my intention. I myself have never been coraled by police to leave the area at 2 a.m. in the morning. With that being said, I would have to say that I am probably not the most qualified person to comment on the situation.
By the way, what did go down in downtown over the weekend..?
Please tell me how many women per week are accosted on the streets of downtown San Jose- not on 17th and Santa
Clara, not by the Salvation Army, not up by 2nd and Keyes. I mean the real number of incidents that happen downtown ; is it on a weekly basis? that would be a crime epidemic worthy of Oakland. Is it monthly? That would make me think San Francisco. We are unfairly pegged as a scary, unsafe downtown, and I didn’t mean to get snarky with you, but the attitude that you have about downtown perpetuates that myth.
” I always felt safe. But maybe others haven’t been so lucky.”
You felt safe because you were safe.
The incident rate in San Jose is less than any other city. I’d be extremely interested in finding out how many incidents happen downtown and contrasting those with the urban, central districts of any other similarly sized city. Maybe that would lift the veil…
I’d also be interested in what it took to make people feel safe dowtown, since obviously low crime rates and military state police aren’t enough. Personal escorts from the clubs to the parking lots? Do the streets need to be better lit? What does it take?
#52, Thanks.
What’s the point of having a down town with large amounts of people till 2 am, if they MUST get out of the down town when the police say they have to clear out. Sounds to me like our city is in a crisis about what it wants. If on the one hand every body must vacate promptly after the night clubs & bars close, which might be 2:00 am. Close up down town at 1 am. End of problem. Better yet put up signs all over down town “no one allowed in town after 2:00 am. In any event it is a bad situation that our city “leadership” must tackle. Not the Police!
Was it not the City and Redevelopment Agency that wanted a vibrant down town, after dark?
In previous blogs I’ve mentioned that the Mexican Festivals be moved to the Fair Grounds or Lake Cunnigham or Prush Park. My reasons for this is simular to what is happening down town presently.
After Cinco de Mayo or 16 of Sept. Every freeway exit to the East of San Jose were barrier blocked. This disturbed me to no end. Who makes these decisions to have Festivals down town when all freeway exits to the East Side of San Jose are blocked. I don’t go down town after dark, and I don’t support the GI Forum’s funtions anymore. I used to display my gallery annually for many years at these festival events and finally stopped because of the lack of suppot shown by these GI Forum “leaders” are any of these guys and girls veterans, and then having to drive to Milpitas to back track to my home. The plastic Snake was the last straw! The coiled ready to strike snake reminds me of that group.
I do a lot down town, I work, workout, eat, visit meuseums, Jazz Festival, Music in the Parks, library, galleries, lunch at Henry’ Hi Life, Fairmont Hotel funtions. I love down town.
I delivered Mercury News papers to down town Hotels when Tony Ridder was a copyboy.
It saddens me to hear and read about shootings and stabbing in our down town.
The San Jose Police Dept. need more help then they are getting from our elected officials. The police did not create the atmosphere that exists presently.
I don’t have the answers for others, I however do have the answers for myself. I stay out of down after hours and if I want to see a formula car race, I’ll go to Laguna Seca.
Sharing My thoughts on a Sunday afternoon! Take a Veteran to Henry’s Hi Life for lunch this week! Tell Jimmy I sent you! If he threatens to throw you out, it’s because he likes you! Enjoy!
The Village Black Smith
POV,
Okay, so I’m a little paranoid after reading all those police reports. Despite all that, I still love going downtown. I’d rather be there then Los Gatos, Dowtown Campbell, or even Palo Alto. And don’t worry, I promise, I won’t take your snarkyness personally.
#54- John,
Come on, you talk a lot of trash about downtown…when was the last time you went down town after dark? I was there again this past weekend and had a great time. my walk to and from Loft Bar & Grill (great food and dance enviroment) and Fahrenheit (good lounge b4 11pm) was just fine, my girlfriend and I did not even for one second feel threatened or unsafe. Maybe you should check it out and see for yourself instead of reading it from someone elses perspective. What are you afraid of…a good time?
#52 “walk tall and proudly, and not fearfully.”
You’re joking right?
Take a spin on http://www.meganslaw.ca.gov
There’s a pretty high density of sex offenders downtown if you ask me. And quite a few adjacent to SJSU’s campus.
…and 1 more thing – has anyone seen this?
http://www.chicagocrime.org/
Seems like the Capital of Silicon Valley should have something like this.
Girl from the Net – do you know if there are there any plans for something like this for SJ?
Novice,
SJPD has something similar but it is very crude, especially if you are using Mozilla Firefox (lots of errors). See:
http://www.sjpd.org/MyNeighborhoodMap.cfm
Pretty sad for the so-called “Capital of Silicon Valley.”
Downtown hurts in more than one way. Friends wanted to go out to dinner tonight. All but one live in Berryessa, and it became rapidly apparent that we had to go to downtown or to Milpitas for dinner.
Not one person in the group wanted to go to downtown. We finally went to a nice Malaysian restaurant in Milpitas. City hall has banned restaurants in northern San Jose, and the residents of Alviso, the flea market neighborhoods, Berryessa, and the East Foothills are almost funneled north out of San Jose to Milpitas for major purchases, dining, and entertainment. All the roadways and light rail facilities tell us to go north.
That’s a big loss of purchasing power in downtown and of sales tax revenues to city coffers, but City Hall makes no effort to invite us downtown. Story & King and Eastridge Mall are more welcoming and more friendly than downtown, believe it or not.
I live near old oakland, behind the San Jose golf course. I’d rather go to downtown then king and story and even eastridge. It’s just way to crowded.
Novice,
We have that, but I don’t think it’s available to the public. You have to contact crime analasys unit for the stats I think..and I think they charge you for it.
Oh No #55: Yes, I know SJ Magazine is just a puff piece chick magazine with lots of ads and is virtually devoid on content. My use of it as an illustration was just to show the divorced-from-reality nonsense that many purvey about the downtown. As long as there’s anyone out there that believes that crap, we’ll have a tough time turning it into what they say it is.
George #61:
If you’re talkin’ to me, the last time I went downtown was last Saturday to the Sharks game. The last time before that was the Saturday before.
Capers LOft & Farenheit are worlds away from Santa Clara Street in crowd, mood, attitude, and safety.
I have been a dowtown patron since 1975 when SoFA didn’t have its name yet, and Eulipia was just changing from a sprouts and sandwiches joint with live music on weekends to a white tablecloth place with live music on weekends. But it was tough to get a date to go, since those blocks were hookertown—hookers of almost as many persuasions as in The City. The hookers were eventually sent packing…for the most part.
There has been an ebb and flow in greater dowtown over the last three decades. I have been a downtown regular (well sometimes irregular) for that entire time. So, George, I think I have a prety good handle on it.
Have I been fearful dowtown? Rarely? Have I been observant and wary? You bet. Do I see escalating problems when compared to my thirty year history of patronizing downtown? Damn right. Am I glad you and your girfriend had a good time and felt safe? Absolutely. Do I believe you have an understanding of what downtown is and has been for three decades? Nope.
George, I’d bet I’ve been having a good time since before you were born. But I don’t wear blinders.
Dave,
San Jose, by the nature of how restaurants are dealt with during the permit process, has basically banned them everywhere. Especially in Downtown San Jose.
It takes over two years to get through the buildout of any restaurant in San Jose. Unless your tied in with City money or it’s in Santana Row (which seems to have its own permit process).
John,
Touche.
New blog from Tom McE on the subject. Great! We’re gonna have another task force or something. Cindy and friends will get all balled up in “process”, with any decision/change a LONG way off.
I never like to point out race as the supreme factor in any problem but it’s hard to dismiss it in this particular instance. I find out amusing when people like you tom that come from wealth and privilege look outside your window and see a crumbling downtown. When in fact the only thing crumbling is the state between the police and the residents that they are suppose to protect not frighten with its threatening tactics. I have traveled to many different cities and I have never seen the amount of police presence that is displayed on a weekly basis in downtown. I don’t feel safe seeing them there, I feel harassed. Maybe the property owners and the rest of the city council will begin to understand our frustration when they see the one thing that we all can relate to begin to disappear – Money. The people that line your pockets are those of hardworking minorities that don’t want to be hassled on a weekend night. All they want to do is enjoy a few hours on the town that they love and support. Maybe it’s time to boycott the downtown we love until it shows us some love.
Hello y’all..
Did you guys know that this :little issue” has national implications? meaning that the Hip hop community, for what it’s worth has taken umbrage to this event.
I came across this interview by chance,…very interesting comments by a noted Hip Hop artist concerning this very situation.
enjoy.
http://www.allhiphop.com/features/?ID=1262
” B-Legit: San Jose is a city that wants to be known as one of the safest city’s in the Bay. In order for them to do that, they have to keep the “hoodlums, thugs, prostitutes” knowing that, “We’re gonna be on your back”. They want to make it like “I don’t wanna be there [in San Jose] because they sweat me too hard”.
So, by the club being there and by 40 being who he was- it attracted a lot of young Latinos and Blacks. Like any other gathering, sometimes thing happen, people fight, there was a shooting. They did not want that in their city. So they allowed the same club to be open called, The Bee Hive. But they did not want 40’s name on it [the club]. When the major concerts come, they come to San Jose. They don’t go to Oakland or San Francisco. They go to San Jose and Sacramento. This is a city that’s ran by the police. A long time ago they used to have lowriders cruising. They [SJPD] shut that down. They harassed anybody they thought was even trying to have a good time. They did the same thing to the club. But they allowed the club to open back up as long as 40’s name was not on it. But I think they are violating a lot of peoples’ rights. ”