There is new evidence suggesting that George W. Bush is a movie fan, especially of animated features. It’s obvious that he has seen “A Bug’s Life” and was taken with the scene where a mile-long single-file column of ants finds its way suddenly blocked by a fallen leaf and stops dead in its tracks, unable to move forward, unaware that it could just go around or over the barrier. I am sure Bush had this scene in mind when he signed a bill approving the construction of a 700-mile fence along portions of the 2,000-mile Mexican-U.S. border. That ought to stop those columns of pesky illegal immigrants from crossing over. Thank God, we can all breathe a sigh of relief now.
Never mind that walls have been historically ineffective at stopping humans who want to cross them in the past 100 years. The wall between the two Germanys and the one between partitioned Ireland come to mind. Even when you combine the Bush Great Wall with the ragtag platoon of Joe Six-Pack xenophobes who patrol 0.0001 percent of the border from Wal-Mart outdoor lounge chairs equipped with ice chests, drinks holders, 20-guage shells, binoculars and single-frequency AM radios tuned to Druggie Limbaugh, there isn’t a chance in hell it’s going to work. So who is it that Bush, Hastert, Frist and their band of Congressional Republican rubber stampers are appeasing with this ridiculous waste of billions of dollars?
The truth is that Bush and the Republican Party elite do not want to stop illegal immigration from Mexico. If they did, they would address the nature of the problem rather than relying on superficial cosmetic surgery. Immigrants from south of the border risk their lives to cross hundreds of miles of desert to flock here in droves because there are jobs waiting for them when they get here, thanks largely to the Republicans’ corporate and agribusiness bankrollers. If the Bush Administration really wanted to stop immigration, they would block their cronies from hiring illegals. What about arresting the CEOs and directors of some Big Board corporations for participating in human trafficking and conspiracy to subvert immigration laws? Then, how about moving on to arrest wealthy supporters who hide their illegal gardeners and maids behind gated community walls from San Clemente to Seattle. Can you see that happening? No? Well, that’s what it would take to do what this ultra-expensive Republican wall of future scrap metal won’t do.
There are few aspects of modern American life that aren’t touched by this issue. Many corporations rely on the exploitation of the steady stream of cheap labor to produce and sell their products, and we Americans are willing participants. The list is long: the beef and tomato on the $2.99 fast food burger, the 99 cent supermarket melon, the $3.99 T-shirt from a discount giant, and on and on. Many defend the exploitation of illegal immigrants by declaring that no American would take these jobs. But the truth is that no corporation or agribusiness employing illegals wants to hire Americans instead and pay minimum wage along with Social Security, health insurance and other costs required for citizens and legal workers.
This is a deep and complicated issue requiring the efforts of our best and most open minds. The Bush Wall—like torture, the Iraq War and warrantless wiretapping—is the shameful product of the cynical closed mind of single party rule under the Republicans. If we don’t change things in our country on Nov. 7, we are in for a lot more walls—the kind that keep us in.
It may not make sense for stopping illegal immigration, but it’s a great red-meat issue to motivate the Republican party’s base. Just like Iraq and gay marriage, it’s useful for creating and manipulating fear, especially fear of others who are different.
It’s consistent with their Southern Strategy that’s given them a lock on national political power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
See Thomas Frank’s “What’s the Matter with Kansas? How Conservatives Won the Heart of America “
http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-Heart-America/dp/0805073396
I speak from the perspective of a “moderate Republican”, that nearly extinct animal.
John B.
Jack,
Reading your piece I found myself agreeing and disagreeing:
1.It ain’t Bush’s wall – he wants a comprehensive plan that includes guest workers. The wall is born of people who have their property trampled by illegal aliens. Yes you’re correct that President Bush doesn’t want to stop illegal aliens from taking jobs away from Americans so businesses can profit. Neither did President Clinton.
2.Please study your history a little deeper – walls do help. At least as part of a larger defense. Ask the people of San Diego. Yeah, I know, the aliens just go where there is no fence or will dig under it. However, it increases the impedance and therefore lowers the rate in invasion. It wouldn’t be necessary if next item occurred.
3.I would love to see some CEO’s doing the ‘perp’ walk for hiring aliens. Did you know the Clinton administration tried that and got too many phone calls from factory owners so he stopped? It’s a national, bipartisan issue.
4.Remember when Senator Boxer hired an alien and didn’t pay the poor alien’s social security taxes? Hmmm, isn’t Boxer a Dem?
5.Yes, the aliens are welcome because most of us are greedy and want the $3.99 T-shirt. Until your job is replaced by an alien…
When you bring up illegal aliens inundating our country please try to keep your facts straight. When everything is Bush’s fault you lose credibility. My Grandparents came here across a wall called the Atlantic Ocean and came legally through Ellis Island. They didn’t get public funding and didn’t have ballots written in German. They didn’t have to dial 2 to get German spoken on the phone and they took English lessons at night school and thanked God they were allowed to come here. Oh yeah, they never drove around displaying the German flag on the fifth of May…
If we need cheap labor so be it. But let’s do it legally, under control and require no pubic assistance and no automatic citizenship for ‘anchor babies’.
Will you blame the elite President Hillary Rodham as vehemently when it becomes her problem?
“Then, how about moving on to arrest wealthy supporters who hide their illegal gardeners and maids behind gated community walls from San Clemente to Seattle.”
Jack, if you’re suggesting that Barbara Streisand and the rest of the leftist moonbat hypocrite ilk should be put behind bars for exploiting illegal labor, then I’m all for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_barrier
You need lead the charge to enlighten all these other misguided and underinformed countries that walls don’t work!!
PS. Anyone know if there any plans to build a wall between San Jose and Milpitas?
Maybe we can build a wall around downtown San Ohaze to keep out the gangbangers and vatos locos who stream in on the weekends.
Anybody check to see what fence company gave a zillion bucks to the RNC?
Good points, Dexter #2
“… the ragtag platoon of Joe Six-Pack xenophobes who patrol 0.0001 percent of the border from Wal-Mart outdoor lounge chairs equipped with ice chests, drinks holders, 20-guage shells, binoculars and single-frequency AM radios tuned to Druggie Limbaugh, there isn’t a chance in hell it’s going to work.”
– – – –
Question: What does a politically-correct liberal do to vent his personal frustration and political anger?
Answer: Attack the Minutemen, Rednecks, or any available white target.
My, how safe and sophisticated? For the second time, as I recall, this blog has disparaged the Minutemen in a manner demonstrating not only a disrespect for the movement, but a disrespect for the truth.
Mr. VanZandt demeans them as beer-guzzlers, but where is the evidence for that? This state has plenty of groups with documented substance-abuse problems, but liberals seem as suspiciously blind to them as they are to our most violent elements. Do you have an acceptable name for such color-coded criticism?
Xenophobes? Is there some evidence that the Minutemen are afraid of Mexicans? If so, what are they doing sitting defenseless at the border? If being in favor of secure borders makes one a xenophobe, then being in the business of secure borders makes the Border Patrol a xenophobic organization. How absolutely ridiculous!
I suppose the Wal-Mart reference was an economic dig, given that the majority of those in the movement are of modest means. I guess they should be ashamed of that. Now, certainly, no one wants to imply that liberals hate people of modest means, just that, when politically necessary, it’s okay for them to hate the white ones.
And, of course, he had to insert the 20 gauge comment, in an attempt to further bolster the indefensible assertion that the Minutemen are armed vigilantes, looking for a chance to gun down a Mexican. I guess we can chalk up the lack of bodies (or even one) to their poor marksmanship.
Whether one agrees with it or not, what the Minutemen movement is doing, demonstrating to effect political change, is as American as apple pie. They are what they say they are: common citizens fed-up with their government’s refusal to protect the nation’s borders. Their intention was to make a statement, exert pressure, and force their elected leaders to take action. They are not profiteers, political insiders, or law-breakers. In other words, they are not like the people who work the hallways in Washington and Sacramento.
Nevertheless, you liberals hate them. What disease causes that?
Jobs that Americans wont do?
I’m so tired of hearing that illegal immigrants “take jobs that Americans will not do”? Missing in this argument is what is crucial in any economic argument, price. Americans will not take many jobs at their current pay levels, and those pay levels will not rise so long as poverty-stricken immigrants are willing to take those jobs.
If Mexican journalists were flooding into the United States and taking jobs as reporters and editors at half the pay being earned by American reporters and editors, maybe people in the media would understand why the argument about “taking jobs that Americans don’t want” is ridiculous.
Just what are these “jobs that Americans won’t do” anyway?
Even in occupations where illegals are concentrated, such as agriculture, cleaning and construction, the great majority of the work is still being done by people who are not illegal aliens.
The highest concentration of illegals is in agriculture, where they are 24 percent of the people employed. That means three-quarters of the people are not illegal aliens. But when will rhetoric slick politicians and news anchors stop telling us that the illegals are simply taking “jobs that Americans won’t do”?
Utter nonsense. Let’s have the real discussion that Dexter almost got to…the welfare state creating these problems.
Hey Finfan, wish you would be more clear in who you are calling liberals, conservatives, Demos., and Republicans. I consider myself to be a very liberal Republican and it is insulting when all Republicans are classified as conservatives. I happen to think the fence idea is a lot of crap and thought we’d seen the last of that kind of thinking in Berlin and Russia. Unfortunately, the Republican party has been all screwed up since the far right members hijacked the party for ideas, that I believe, are not true Republican values. The Demo’s on the other hand seem only interested in providing new jobs for cronies. Wouldn’t be surprised to see a new government group set up to regulate the “wall”.
Don’t understand why we fail to recognize good ideas from other parts of the world. At the urging of the US goverment the EU was formed and eventually all borders were open for travel within the EU. I believe that freedom of movement between Canada, Mexico, and the US should happen and people within those borders should be able to work in any of these countries without restrictions. Realize that this would require some people to open thier minds and require them to think outside the box. Trying to keep your citizens behind fences and restrict movement was proven to be ineffective by the Russians. Why repeat this failure.
Dexter, Novice and Frustrated:
I think you all help me prove my point that this issue is much deeper than a tin-can fence. None of us can touch every angle.
Dexter:
It is Bush’s wall. It was Bush and the Republican Congress that planned, wrote and passed the legislation that authorized building this fence, not Clinton and the Democrats. But, they didn’t even appropriate the money to build it. Is that cynicism, pandering or what? The system isn’t Bush’s fault, but he continues to perpetuate it on behalf of those who bankroll him and his party while paying lip service to those who don’t agree with this policy.
You bring up some good issues, although you don’t see them the way I do. The current situation of widespread employment of illegal immigrants from south of the border has been going on since Harry Truman was president and is nothing new. This country’s economic engine was partly built (shamefully) on slavery and the exploitation of cheap immigrant labor, mostly from Europe up until WWII. I don’t have a problem with immigrants coming here to work and contribute to our economy and society if there is a place for them. I have a problem with the system of exploitation that takes advantage of them at the expense of American citizens. If the illegal workers were legal and above board, and their employers forced to treat them fairly and within the law, the immigrants would be paying their share for services such as health and education. We taxpayers are not subsidizing the immigrants through the so-called “welfare state”—we are subsidizing the employers.
I am not sure what you mean by “anchor babies” but the Constitution guarantees citizenship to anyone born here. You know as well as I do that there won’t be an Amendment to change that.
Novice:
You won’t find any sympathy for Barbara Streisand here. I would be willing to give her a free pass, however, if she agreed to stop singing. Anyone who exploits workers for their own benefit is wrong, no matter where they fall in the political spectrum.
Frustrated:
Your personal attack on me couldn’t be more wrong, yet again. I can criticize the working class people you refer to as “rednecks” all I want, and not because, as you imply and assume, I am some Ivory Tower liberal from Berkeley or Boston. I have the right because I am one of them. My mother, a child of the Dust Bowl, grew up in the Weedpatch WPA Work Camp made famous by “The Grapes of Wrath.” Her father lost his job as a carpenter for the railroads in Texas in the 30s and he was forced to take his family, sticks of furniture and Jalopy held together by baling wire and head west in search of work. My father was the son of a cotton picker and sodbuster who migrated here from Arkansas and he worked in the Taft and McKittrick oilfields as a teenager before joining the Marines and fighting in the Korean War. Both my parents came from very large families and I have hundreds of “redneck” relatives and friends all over the state and I love every one of them, even though some of them are wrong on this issue just like the so-called “Minutemen” vigilantes. I grew up around Bakersfield and worked in the vegetable and grape fields of Kern County until I was lucky enough to go to college—thanks to the generosity of my working class Okie and Arkie relatives—and become the first person in my family ever to get a BA. So, believe me when I tell you I know more about the people you call “rednecks” than you ever will.
Glenn #7
I agree. Free movement across open borders between the three countries along the lines of the EU is the way to go. Every worker above board and legal. Of course the fearmongers, dittoheads and xenophobes of the loony right will come back and say that we are out of our minds because we will be infiltrated by armies of “terrorists” and “freeloaders.” They will be joined by the corporate exploiters for obvious reasons. However, that day will come some time in the not-too-distant future because it is the only thing that makes sense in the long run.
The welfare state has made immigrants of all sorts, legal or illegal, a burden above and beyond what the immigrants of a century ago were. Few of the supporters for more immigration want to talk about these high hidden costs of “cheap labor.” The labor may be cheap for the hotels, farmers, and affluent families who hire illegal immigrants, but to the taxpayer it is very expensive.
The welfare state gives people legal claims on other people’s tax dollars through expensive “free” services in schools and hospitals, not to mention imprisoning criminals. Even liberals who have the audacity to criticize Wal-Mart for not paying their workers “enough,” claiming that taxpayers are subsidizing Wal-Mart employees’ health care and other benefits, never apply the same reasoning to illegal immigrants.
Worse yet, immigrants in past centuries came here to become Americans, not to remain foreigners. Today, immigrant spokesmen and advocacy groups promote grievances and racism, not gratitude and independence. Even worse, many native-born Americans promote a sense of separatism and grievance by placating “multi-culturalism,” purposely keeping well-intentioned immigrants foreign and dependent.
Folks, a thousand mile fence will not stop a Mexican from getting to the lettuce and tomato fields.Especiallyone that is bent on feeding his family back home.
This is not new strategy , only this election is.
The 700 mile barrier is not to keep illigals out, it’s to keep them in. Look around. The wine you drink, the great food you boostabout,the clean car you drive, the pressed clothes you wear, need I go on.
Get your heads out of your democrats and look at what we have created for our selves.
The guys in power are telling us this is rocket science, the guys that want the power are telling us this is about people. Isn’t it always like that. Look for some cronny to start a ManPower brokerage, Specialty Farm Worker”
Then you got a bunch of guys that no one knows posting their opinion, for all we know you could be the guy everyone is looking for.
I would recommend spending a few thousand bucks planting tomatos in Iraq, I’d bet that in one month you’dbe able to count 1/2 million Mexicans lined up and ready in Bagdad. Anyone know how they got here? NOPE! Thought so!
We could learn from our neighbors from the south. How the hell do 10 million people cross the desert, that’s a lot of tomato pickers.
We can’t find 10 million guysin the desert at home how we going to find one guy in a desert in Iraq. The answer is, send in the Mexicans. No guns, just a jug of water and a new pair of Adidas, made in China!
While we’re at it sent the Minute men too. The guys wanting to earn a few bucks picking tomatos would not put up with the shit our fighting boys are getting from the power brokers and the Iraqis.
The farmer rancher is saying, BOY you crazy, who’d pick our crops, how’d we pay for our confortable life style. Jr don’t know nothing bout no chinery. Hell he don’t even know how to pick grapes.
Life is crazy is’nt it?
The Village Black Smith
I don’t think most people have a problem with Mexican nationals coming over here to work, as long as they follow the process that’s in place for that, which is apparently under review for streamlining. It’s the legitimization of the illegals that’s the concern. We’ll never stop the illegal flow if word keeps getting back to Mexico on how easy it is for illegals to make a go of it here.
The wall is just so much more grandstanding from Bush, that’s all it is.
Jack, you did know what I meant – you know as well as I do what an “anchor baby” is. Basic Econ #10 makes the case very well for why we need a constitutional amendment and massive changes to our welfare laws as well as punishing CEO’s who “oppress” the poor aliens. If you studied history a little better you would know the reason people left farms to go to work in “horrible” factories during the 1800’s is because the factories were better than the farms. The “oppressed” aliens come here and allow themselves to be “taken advantage of” because it’s better than Mexico. It’s kind of Einsteinian – all things are relative.
Your shared view with President Bush is a pipe dream. According to your own bio you of all people should know that it takes hard work to gain reasonable wealth and that every country is not going to be a rich as the US. Having open boarders is inviting disaster. If Europe is such a good example of open boarders why aren’t they the largest economy? Why does France have 25% unemployment? I guess Bush runs their country too…
Tell me, if you believe in open boarders do you leave your house door open for all to enter; sit down and have dinner? If not, why? Did you say you have a BA or BS?
As for subsidizing illegal aliens – you told your bio, I’ll give you some of mine; I had surgery in April where the surgery and pain killers stopped my ability to pee. I spent two hours waiting in an emergency room for a catheter. I’ll give you half a guess who was in line ahead of me? I was the only one in there with an insurance card and spoke English.
The fences in Berlin,Germany, Russia, indeed all of the old Eastern Bloc cannot be compared to the Dubya Fence. The former were erected to keep people IN, and they did a fine job of it…along with guns and guard dogs.
Dubya’s Fence is designed to keep people OUT. After all, there are already too many people looking for work outside all the Home Depots.
Another monumental waste of money, Dubya and those who voted for it.
As much as I hate to burden business owners with yet another regulation, it seems to me that the only way to staunch the flow of “illegals” is to impose stiff fines, and jail time for multiple offenses, on business owners.
But, ooops, then California as we know it shuts down within six weeks. Soccer Moms become gardeners and launderers, and most restaurants close down.
We need to get every worker at every business, including the independent contractor gardeners, housekeepers, etc.“on the books” to even have a glimpse of solving the “problem” of “illegals”.
We are never going to stop the flow to El Norte by either people or drugs. So, let’s get down to business and identify tax them all.
Dexter 13
No, Bush does not see this (or any other) issue the same way I do in any way. He completely supports the current situation whereby illegal immigrants and taxpayers are exploited for the benefit of his corporate paymasters.
I am sorry about your surgery and unpleasant hospital experience. However, the problem is not other unfortunates who require emergency medical attention but the ridiculous structure of the healthcare system we are saddled with.
Mr. VanZandt,
I take note of your working class credentials, but that does nothing to salvage your faulty reasoning.
If you will go back and look you will find I did not imply anything about your personal background—because that doesn’t matter. What matters is the comfort and arrogance you demonstrate when you demean the Minutemen—a comfort and arrogance that is the mark of those brainwashed by a liberal education and an elitist mentality.
Once again you referred to the Minutemen as vigilantes. Once again you are wrong. The Minutemen are border monitors, they are not there to suppress and punish (vigilante defined). They are also not drunks, armed thugs, or white trash, yet that was the picture you painted in your post.
Having Redneck credentials is nor more a license to distort or disparage than is a Berkeley degree.
As for the notion of open borders, to suggest that the situation in Europe is comparable with that here in North America is to imply that the EU includes a member like Mexico, one capable of burying all the others via the export of endless hordes of unskilled, uneducated, assimilation-resistant nationalists.
Open borders here would be a disaster on all fronts: economic, cultural, technological, environmental, and quality of life. Open borders would turn Canada and the U.S. into stagnant, polluted, hopeless, uncivilized, backward nations incapable of insuring traditional freedoms. In other words, it would turn them both into Mexicos.
Jack # 9 opined” Free movement across open borders between the three countries along the lines of the EU is the way to go.”
‘Fraid you don’t know what you’re talking about there, Jack-o. Western Europe is reeling economically due to the hordes of illiterate, mostly Muslim and some west asian populations swarming into their various welfare states.
Why doesn’t the EU set up ferries for the north africans to come and go as they please? Isn’t that the model that’s being proposed?
Why does the EU detain and deport north african illegals as soon as they land?
Why is Turkey’s admission into the EU so contentious? Could it be that Turkey is the EU’s ‘Mexico’?
A border fence + perp-walking CEO’s caught hiring illegals = problem solved.
And calling the 700 mile security fence “Dubya’s wall” is laughable. That’s like crediting Bill Clinton with tougher sex offender legislation.
Come on Jack – answer the questions presented? Don’t just rerun the same mantra…
No answer is an answer! You don’t know or won’t admit you’re wrong. Probably the latter…
Why did West Germany’s economy go into the tank when it was reunited with East Germany? There was a good example of open borders allowing unskilled poorly educated people expecting to be taken care of ruining a powerful economy. Germany is still recoverying 20 years later.
JohnMichael 17
There isn’t a country in the EU that isn’t better off since joining the EU, previously the EEC. The traditionally poorer countries like Greece and Ireland have prospered greatly and there are marked improvements in the quality of life in Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Italy, Spain, etc. and all the old Eastern Block countries that are now members. The UK, which hasn’t completely joined the EURO monetary system and where the cost of the unpopular Iraq war and the legacy of Empire has had some adverse affects on the national economy, may be the odd one out at present. However, whether you visit Cork, Genova, Strasbourg or anywhere else, there is no comparison between what they are today and what they were 30 years ago. There have been immigrant issues in many European countries since the demise of their imperialist conquests. They certainly have problems related to this, but it’s not at all the dire situation you describe. The economies are not “reeling” because of it. And yes, they have pollution problems and all the rest just like us.
You know Jack when you told me that you were going to get us all off the “Mayor” bashing and change the theme to something else, you were telling the truth. You did it. You really got everyone riled up didn’t you LOL. Keep it up, we need controversary. I’m just sorry that Frustrated Finfan and Dexter can’t smile for a change and see the humor in all of this.
We are taking the wrong approach with Mexico. Instead of sealing it off, we need to take over Mexico and make it the 51st state.
Then we can get rid of the corrupt government, cops, and military, and bring the country up to our standards. It will not happen overnight, but it would certainly happen sooner than trying to stop the flow of individuals ignoring immigration laws.
Jack: I had to re-read your post to make sure it wasn’t a parody. Sadly, it isn’t—and even sadder, it underscores the grossly irresponsible position today’s Democratic party takes toward a big and important issue—illegal immigration.
Jack: to say that building the fence is hypocritical because it doesn’t address the root cause is a logical and rhetorical laugher. It’s like saying “If you buy a lock for you front door because you’re concerned about being robbed, you’re a hypocrite because you’re not addressing the root cause of burglary, which is bad parenting.”
Get real. This is, as you point out, a big and tough issue. But the Reject Everything Offer No Solutions approach of the Democrats continues to tarnish them as an unserious political entity.
Does anybody remember NAFTA?
Has anybody taken the time to review what NAFTA was supposed to accomplish, and what it actually accomplished?
What impact did NAFTA have on the economies of Canada, US, and Mexico?
From Mexican farmers, to America’s corporations; who are the winners and who ware the losers?
OK OK, You want to look into my Horse Shoe reflection pond? Go for it! Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
There are’nt to many groceries that were not touched by some guy that didn’t spend some time dodging La Migra crossing the desert.
We’ve pissed off a lot of folks all over the world. OK, it’s about democrocy. It took us two hundred years to get to this point. We enslaved much of Africa, defiled most of our true American natives. Stole and plundered much of what we have today.
Now the tide is shifting. The Chinese are in our midst. Buy anything. MADE IN CHINA.
Wal Mart, Penneys, Big Five, American Flags @ Santa Cruz Board Walk, MADE IN CHINA.
Monica Lowenski, where are you when we need you. Those were times of good will , surplus, other countries loved us. Then along came “Star” and here we are.
You and Bill Took us out of the closet. It seems as though Jim Jones is still spouting James Town, evil ,evil,evil.
You wine snobs, food snobs, golf snobs, Tip a mexican , if you can find one.
You ever wonder how Duck Horn, Napa Wineries produce billions of gallons of wine. I’ve never seen a mexican in the fields, or on the golf course. John Michael, You and your Home boys could be the next gereration of foot stompers that would produce Pino Noir for the next elitist generation.
Fact is with out Mexican, we’re all just users. We don’t need them , Cause we got China, Yuppi!!!
The Village Black Smth
Jack #20: Everywhere I’ve gone and friends have gone to or live in the EU talk about the drag on the economy presented by massive mostly uneducated immigrant migration, and the high percentage of crime committed by said immigrants in relationship to their percentage of the population.
Guess we have different data sources?
Yeah, 22—they can’t even count their population. I fear they would drag us down rather than us lift them up.
But PEMEX would be nice to own.
Jack-
There’s a big difference in the educational system of Mexico and eastern EU nations. Some of the best math and science education in the world was done in Hungary and East Germany. Oaxaca and Michoacan can’t make that claim.
This makes a huge difference for your claim of integrability. It’s one thing to integrate a well educated population that happens to be poor. The negative wage impacts are spread over several income levels, and are thus more manageable.
Integrating a poorly educated population is different. The wage (and job availability) impacts are concentrated on a much smaller income range. Opening the borders would make it extremely difficult for existing urban youth to find work.
You may or may not be right that it is the best option, but it has a huge social cost for our inner cities.
Native (#21),
I’m one step ahead of you. I’ve acquired a personal mentor whose lighthearted approach to politics is what he calls “rolling with the punches.” He says I’m a great student, having today mastered the “clueless smile” that he considers the hallmark of evading uncomfortable questions and putting others at ease. Tomorrow we are going to cover how to use clothing and personal style to get noticed, as well as how to gracefully back oneself out of tight situations at City Hall.
Should those of you who occasionally express concern for my mental well-being notice a marked improvement in my postings, know that the real credit belongs to my mentor, Professor Chew.
Being in denial has it’s price. How many of you closet bloggers have the cajones to attempt the crossing from Mexico to the letuce fields of Salinas. Avoiding the Migra, death by predaters, death by hunger or thirst. Then work your asses off 10 hours a day, day in day out. So the next time you good ole boys slice a tomato, toss a salad, pour yourselves a glass of 80 dollar bottle of wine, try to imagine that you made it all happen. Then find the empathy for people that sacrifice their lives so your ungratful face can get fed. Walls are built from guilt. You hurt or steal from enough folks and you will wonder when they will come for you. HEY JOE, LET’S BUILD A WALL.
CRAIGSLIST can’t keep parachutes in stock, Daa. What next?
The Minute Men. Who thought that shit up. A bunch of old Farts on lawn chairs and a Six pack.
2 Billion bucks to build a wall, WHERE? Who thinks up all this shit! One good sand storm, and the Mexicans will be able to walk over the wall.
We flooded Mexico with cheap corn, broke the local Mexicans. What do you do when you cannot feed your family?
Some of us just need something to hate. Yep, cause that’s who we are. There’s alot of hate on these blog sites. I like seeing it expressed, it means your looking for help.
For every closet hate monger blogger, that comes out, I’ll sponsor your initiation to the San Jose Athletic Club. Hey, it’s done wonders for JMO.
The Village Black Smith
Gil (#30):
Swearing, calling people names or insulting them does not help your cause. The problem is complex and not just the fault of one side or the other. The approach to solving the problem is also complex, one that will not be resolved by either building walls or opening borders. I just finished reading an extremely interesting book “Patrolling Chaos, The US Border Patrol in Deep South Texas” There are significant problems on both sides of the border. The government of Mexico is corrupt to it core. The government of the US is split down the middle. Many Republicans (including President Dubya) would prefer a simplified guest worker program (the one we have now is all but impossible for people to negotiate without an attorney and they cannot afford an attorney), but they cannot get that approved by the “build the wall, keep them all out” Democrats. The Mexican people simply want jobs and money to send home. The Americans appear to want people to work at low wages but then to go home. They don’t want the workers to stay here and use our schools, hospitals or government services, anthing that would use up tax dollars. Oh, but remember, they must pay their social security taxes, even though they will never recover that money.
But wait, the Americans don’t want the Mexicans to use our schools but then complain they cannot speak English. The Mexicans want to be here but do not want to make any attempt to learn English.
The issues continue to compound on each other. It would be nice if there was a simple solution but there is not. Yes, I have empathy for the Mexican workers. They need to feed their families since the Mexican government cannot do anything useful to take care of their own. But I also have a little knowledge of the law and entry into the US illegally is still against the law.
Is there a middle ground. Probably. And I firmly believe that a simplified guest worker program would solve most of the issues. Unfortunately, the Democrats don’t seem to think so. They would rather build walls than address the real issue. I hope this issue is resolved during my lifetime, but I doubt it.
Gilly #30: Hey, there’s never been a question in my mind that without Mexican laborers that this entire state would cease to exist as we know it in just a few weeks. No fruits and veggies, no wine (OUCH!), no restaurants, no hotels, and damn few gardeners.
I am also firmly against the proposed wall. It just is not the answer to a growing problem.
But there is also little question in my mind that the vast majority of those flowing over our border have no desire to integrate themselves into the USA as you and your family have done. They don’t consider themselves even Mexican-Americans; they consider themselves Mexicans. Many work off the books, so contribute no taxes to support the services they receive, like free meals at school for their kids and MediCal. That has to stop, Gil.
How many times have you seen TV interviews of illegal immigrants who have lived here twenty-plus years being conducted in Spanish? How do you live and work somewhere twenty years and not learn the local language? I’m not saying you become an english scholar, just that you can conduct everyday business in the local language.
We all need to acknowledge the great service these people provide to us; but they need to make an attempt at mainstreaming/integrating into this society.
Dexter 13
The unemployment rate in France is not 25%. It is 9.7%. Ireland 4.2%, Germany 9.6%, Italy 7.8%, Denmark 5.1%, Netherlands 4.7%, UK 4.6%. In the 25-nation EU as a whole it is around 8.8%, including the newer members like Poland and Slovakia where the rates were somewhat higher to begin with.
You can check the figures here:
http://www.ibeurope.com/Factfile/78unemp.htm
JohnMichael 28
I lived full time in the EU from 1976 until 1996 and part time until 2000, mostly in Ireland and the UK. In that period I started, owned and operated three businesses and traveled and worked extensively all over Europe. I still have family and friends there and travel there frequently. So my data is based on personal experiences and contacts, and from reading European newspapers and websites like the BBC regularly.
Michael 31
The border fence bill was conceived of, written, passed and signed by the majority Republican Congress and president. The Democrats, in the main, voted against it and put up a very vocal opposition. So how do you figure that the wall is the Democrats’ fault?
Gil 33
Thanks for your posts on this subject. You say it better than I ever could!
Micheal Schwerin,
To imply that I have a cause is not for you to state. Did I offend you by calling the Minute men a bunch of ole Farts?
Reread your statements and assumptions about the present state of Mexico.
Or did I touch your concience, as you were about to eat your salad. I do appreciate your reply, I found you interesting but very nieve about the collective politics that is played out here between the countries of our Hemisphere. Nafta, oil politics, The stampede to China.
Everything we eat, wear, see, or fear is some how tied to people other than ourselves Attorneys, Judges, sales men, clergy, politicions, What do we know about gathering food for our families. Safeway Albertsons, Rite Aid that’s where we go.
What happen to plain ole human dignity and respect. We’re off fighting a war to induce democrocy, while building a wall between two neighbors. Does that make any sense?
Now people here are being advised not to visit the cities in Mexico that are besieged with termoil. What next?
John Michael, I respect your posts, I even respect that you have your criticiums. That’s just who you are.
I expect the same logic from you. For instance, I belive the Minute Men are an insult to the present Republican Administration. It’s absolutely insulting, to see a bunch of old Farts in 4 wheel drive and lawn chairs, some with side arms, waiting for some unsuspecting family to wonder into their positions. A family that was probably on the brink of starvation, or perhaps even more emotional, wanting a better life for their children.
The next time you buy a tomato or a head of lettuce, ask the vegetable where it’s been. Hell, you’ll find you already knew the answer.
That book you read Michael, reread it in the produce area at your nearest super market. Better yet read it to some little Mexican child, that aspires to become literate. You will become a better American and a better friend to your family and community. Your kids will love you for your compassion.
How’s that for a “CAUSE” !
The Village Black Smith
Jack:
You are correct. My fingers were writing faster than I was thinking and I reversed Democrat and Republican. However, I do know that Dubya supported the guest worker program which I believe would be a major positive step in the right direction and the Republican party does not support that concept. The Republicans on the whole were looking for an enforcement only bill while the Democrats are looking for a total immigration reform package (which is sorely needed). Dubya signed the bill because he could not get the whole package he wanted. What was passed was probably the only thing he could do. I believe Dubya is more in the center on immigration issues but his hands are tied by his party and in an election year, the issue became too political for him to go against the party.
As far as Gil’s comments, he has some good ones and he has some bad ones. His comment to me about the Minutemen (an unfortunate phrase since the Minutemen of the Civil War were heroes) is way off base since I think they are a bunch of clown vigilantes. His comment about trying to “touch my conscience” is also way off base as I deal with immigrants, both legal and illegal on a daily basis and have done more to make them legal or help them stay here legally than he will ever know. What is wrong with advising Americans to stay out of cities in Mexico that are in turmoil? We don’t need to be sending rescue teams to Mexico to help out people who have been kidnapped by corrupt Mexican police, military or thugs. It’s easier just to stay away. His rhetoric goes on and on and while I appreciate his point of view, his comments directed at me are off base and not justified. I am apolitical and prefer to help people quietly and without fanfare. The closest I get to politics is ocassionally posting on this website and voting.
Finally, I copy this press release from the American Immigration Lawyers Assocation with their comments regarding the wall.
Carlina Tapia-Ruano, President of the American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) called today’s signing into law of the Secure Fence Act by President Bush “a simple political gesture, and a waste of taxpayers’ money. This enforcement-only measure provides cover for those in Congress in need of help with their re-election prospects and only serves to mask the fact that Congress isn’t dealing with immigration.”
The 700-mile fence authorized by the Secure Fence Act will not even be built; as Congress has only appropriated a small fraction of the more than $7 billion it would cost to erect such a structure. The current appropriation of $1.18 billion will only fund 90 miles of fence, according to experts. “Congress and the President once again missed an opportunity to enact a comprehensive approach that was approved by the Senate last spring. That bill provided for a guest-worker program and eventual citizenship for immigrants, as well as border security,” said Tapia-Ruano.
She continued, “Studies show and experts agree that the fence will have a minimal impact on reducing unauthorized migration. Not only will migrants go through, over, or under it to find jobs in the United States, but approximately 40% of undocumented immigrants enter through our legal ports of entry and remain past the expiration dates of their visas. The fence will not stop that from happening.”
The proposal also fails to deal with the fact that we have 12 million people already living and working in this country without authorization. Any effective legislation must squarely address the difficult economic and social issues that drive migrants to surmount any barrier the government builds. The fact remains that our immigration laws must provide new channels to facilitate the legal entry of those coming to perform needed services in our economy and to reunite with close familiy members who already have long and deep ties here. Any meaningful and effective immigration reform must establish a new temporary worker program and create a path to citizenship for long-term, law-abiding and tax-paying immigrant workers.
Great comments Michael!
I don’t know that feelings expressed could be termed as bad or good. I’m sure there are lots of folks out there in ciberspace that post here but don’t submit. Simply because they do not want to be criticised. I’ve stated this many times before, Criticisum belongs to the mind of the critic. That’s just who they are.
You came around very nicely from knocking the Democrat Wall and a corrupt Mexico, thanks for your post. Keep up the good work you are doing. There is much to be done between our two countries. Compassion is the foundation for change. Today is a good day!
The Village Black Smith
Michael 35
Thanks for your very interesting comments. One correction:
The Minutemen were instrumental in winning the Revolutionary War, not the Civil War. Originally formed around 1645 from the cream of the militia as quick responders to military necessity, they were participnts in all the major pre-Revolutionary conflicts, including the French and Indian War. They dissolved after the Revolution.
The delusional border vigilantes insult the memory of those men by stealing the name.
Jack:
Again you are correct. I had pictures of the correct war in my mind but typed out the wrong one. After all, it was 7 a.m. when I wrote my comment.
Anyone with a sliver of compassion can see that there are a great many people in many countries in the world that are much hungrier and in much more dire straits than Mexico and it’s people.
These distressed countries are not blessed with even 1% of the wealth of natural resources that Mexico has been blessed with.
But what is the United States to do?
As great as the US is, it cannot accomodate all the worlds downtrodden at once – so it is only fair to prioritize and start by accepting the poorest of the world’s poor.
Therefore I’m starting a letter writing campaign that we should put up an airtight wall on the southern border and start airlifting the *truly* desperate and hungry into the US post haste.
We can start with Darfur.
When all the people of the world poorer than Mexicans have been taken care of, then we can start allowing Mexicans into the US.
Who will join with me in my quest? As I see it only selfish, nationalist, racist Mexicans would oppose such a plan.
Is describing the Minutemen as “vigilantes” required to establish one’s bona fides within the enlightened community, or is it simply a matter of one keeping reality from infringing on a treasured belief? Whatever it is, I salute you true believers for, what Mr. Bush would call, staying the course. Your ability to steadfastly misrepresent something for political purposes puts you on cognitive par with our president. Now that’s a distinction you can brag about to your children.
Though it has taken me a while to comprehend the technique of deceptive word use, I think I’ve finally got it. When commenting on something one finds politically objectionable, it should be described using a negative word or term, even if accuracy is sacrificed. Thus, when law-abiding Americans organized a border watch, the pejorative term vigilante should be applied to them, hopefully creating the perception that they are armed thugs operating outside the law.
Now, and this is important, the second part of the technique is to avoid those same pejorative words when describing something politically acceptable—again, even at the risk of sacrificing accuracy. Thus, when self-described ex-cons and former addicts organize a tent-city in Richmond to deter neighborhood violence, the word vigilante is nowhere to be found in news coverage or public commentary. In fact, not only were there no negative comments, but local newspeople and politicians couldn’t seem to say enough wonderful things about them!
Okay, so if I have it right, the path to the higher ground requires that I distort when necessary, defame without remorse, and believe without pause. Uh, thanks but no thanks. I think I’ll stick to my own path; I don’t like what’s stuck to your shoes.
Frustrated #40/16/5
Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary defines “vigilante” as follows:
“a member of a volunteer committee organized to supress and punish crime summarily (as when the process of law appears inadequate); a self-appointed doer of justice.”
The Oxford English Dictionary and American Heritage Dictionary say the same thing in essence.
That’s how I understand the word. How is the universally accepted definition different from the lounge chair border patrol you are defending? They are not official appointees acting on the public’s behalf, they have no democratic mandate and they are not police officers or deputies or an official “posse.” They are, in fact, a self-appointed committee of volunteers who take the law—that they have decided is inadequately enforced—into their own hands and are therefore “vigilantes.”
#41
One of the problems with discussing illegal immigration is that reason and rationale go out the window on both sides of the discussion. Like it or not, finfan, #40, is right in his post.
The Minutemen are no more vigilantes than are members of San Jose’s Neighborhood Watch program. They aren’t “taking the law into their own hands” by informing the border patrol of possible illegal activity. They are being responsible citizens.
Was I being a vigilante when I informed the police of neighborhood activity that turned out to be a car-theft ring? No. If I grabbed my 9mm and went to the suspect house and made a citizen’s arrest based on my suspicion then that would have been a vigilante action.
Most of the time you appear to be a reasonable and intelligent person, but by condoning illegal immigration and condemning and degrading law-abiding citizens you are lowering yourself into the cesspool of the lunatic fringe in politics.
#42,
“organized to supress and punish”
Not even close, no matter how many times you click your heels and think wishful thoughts.
Impeach Bush #42
OK, let’s agree to call them “volunteer border watchers” so we can discuss the real issue. Call them what you want, the point of my column was that the Bush/Republican Wall is not a viable solution to the problem of illegal immigration from the south and will be no more effective than the small group of “border observers” who call themselves “Minutemen.” What we need are some bright, informed and open-minded people working to find a real solution.
Jack: if the modern day minutemen shoot someone, kick the sh*t out of someone, hang someone, etc. they are vigilantes. If they observe and report, they are citizens filling a need that they feel the government has left unfilled.
This country was born of people who had endured enough of a government that did not meet their needs—No Taxation Without Representation, and all that other revolutionary/patriotic stuff.
It’s clear to me that the political deadlock on this issue has caused some people to take independent action. I do not embrace their cause, or their methods, necessarily; but to put a branding word like “vigilante” on them portrays a bit too much of what some folks call “liberal bias” or “limousine liberalism”.
If they do harm, I may change my opinion; but for now, your branding does not resonate with me. The minutemen are peacefully filling an unmet need with respect to border control.
NOTE: I’m seeing alot of posturing by those that want distance from the real problem or solution.
Hey J Mo. maybe the solutuion to your lowriding Vatos, etc. etc. from the East side would be Minute Men. I’m sure our Chief of Police would welcome their particpation. San Jose being the Safest City in America, that did not include district 3, you think?
FinFan, Novice, dexter, and the illusive Down Town Brown we need to do a group hug.
Somebody wound you boys up too tight.
The best way to end this retoric, is to place an agent at every Farm Group Membership. USDA inspects every carcass of meat, stamps it and on it goes. With out the ability to hire illigals, then word would travel like wild fire to the very towns where these Mexican are comming from. This could be done with Hotels, resturants, Clubs, Home owners associations, Nite clubs, Wineries, flower growers, caneries, need I go on. End of problem, we save 2 billion, the clost blogers will have to deal with reality
My point is, it’s because these different organization ask relatives of illigals that presently work for them to sent more of their relative to them. Making the responsibility to get here thru custom the responsibility of the Mexican. Gutless and illigal!
If this can be proven the employer can serve some time, RIGHT?
You group huggers simply need to focus on the real problem here. That is why it’s important to allow our leaders to resolve the issues, that is why they are there.
There’s got to be a blog site that discribes the Minute Men indetail, by the very people they encounter. I belive they will have the same vises, associated with guys that go into the night with flashlights and shot guns, looking for evel sprits. If I allow my mind to wonder about these ole Farts, it scares me a bit. That will be my next project. I’ll be in touch.
The Village Black Smith
This debate is positively pathetic. Jack Van Zandt brands the Minutemen as vigilantes and then, unable to defend his use of the term in the pejorative sense in which he used it, scurries off to find a definition that has nothing to do with the meaning he intended to convey. I guess we can all be thankful that he didn’t dig up the Latin origins of the word, otherwise he’d charge the Minutemen with trapping runaway slaves.
Here is the bottom line, folks: American citizens have a right to be concerned, alarmed, and outraged over the flow of illegal aliens into our nation. That right is every bit as deserving of respect as are the rights of others, such as Mr. Van Zandt, to feel compassion for the immigrants, or Mr. Hernandez, to view the migration of workers as the result of the machinations of the powerful. To demean the Minutemen movement using anything other than factual information is irresponsible—especially when done by those seeking to strengthen their own, otherwise weak positions on the issue.
Mock the Minutemen if you must, but please don’t pretend you do so from the high ground. Their organization is an outgrowth of the frustrations of powerless individuals, alarmed by the very real impact of illegal immigration, not to mention their dismay that their nation of laws would turn its back on such blatant lawlessness. That our government has grown so bloated and incompetent that it ignores the demands of law-abiding taxpayers is certainly nothing to celebrate, no matter one’s political perspective.
And don’t forget this, the anti-illegal immigration position is the only political position that is not at odds with the law as it is written. Every other point-of-view requires that the law be ignored. Think that’s not a big deal? Think about what other laws this government, or big business, might want ignored. In other words, think again.
It is utterly amazing that a group of angry white guys—all with plenty of spare time and the purchasing power to fill their 12 mpg 4WD SUVs to the brim with the prescribed fancy communications and desert safari equipment (see page 21 of The Official Minuteman Training Manual)—believe they themselves to be the victims in this situation.
#47 Jack,
You should have stayed with “volunteer border watchers” (#44).
Personally, I do not like the name Minute Men since I feel it tries to invoke false patriotism in its followers. In other words, if you are not with us you are unpatriotic. Calling themselves “volunteer border watchers” would have improved their image.
However, even though I get the impression from TV interviews that they are BBQ eating, bland beer drinking rednecks (sort of like my family, cousins, etc.), so far they have been on the right side of this subject.
JohnMichael #45
Check out the Minuteman Project official website.
http://www.minutemanproject.com
They describe themselves right at the top of their Home Page thus:
“A citizens’ vigilance operation monitoring immigration, business, and government.”
A vigilante is “a member of a vigilance committee or similar body” (Oxford English Dictionary).
I didn’t brand them as “vigilantes.” They branded themselves and obviously take pride in it. So be it.
I have read their operations manuals etc and although this public material explicitly forbids violence, actual violence or causing of harm are not required within the definition of the word.
They have the perfect right under the law to do what they do per their public material. However, that doesn’t make it right, nor does it guarantee that violent action does not or will not take place in some instances because they can never know the intent or motivation of each of their indvidual members in volunteering. A lot of things can happen out in the middle of nowhere that nobody will ever know about.
One does not have to go far these days to locate information.
Raymond Herrera, official spokes person for the Minute Men. was on the Univision Christina Show. He discribed Mexicans as little chickens with out heads. He went on to state that, “Life here in the US is the Life of the Anglos. “I was born in the life of the Anglos. People want the life of the Anglos”. He was declared an assessino many times. By the other panelist,The croud was large yet there was only 3 Mexican in attendance. Most booed his tirads!
Also on the site “The Minute Men Project” were panelist Juan Hernandez Senior Fellow for the Reform Institude, and Minutue Men founder Jim Gilchrists. Both agreed That the US Wall will never get built.
Lastly in the town of Hazelton, Penn. Spanish speaking is prohibited. Fines are metered out to employers and land lords that hire Mexicans.
Can the ovens be far behind. What is really taking place out in that desert, out of sight of the Goverment jurisdiction.
The Village Black Smith
Did anybody research the effects of NAFTA since my last posting?
If anybody out there can remember, NAFTA was suppose to help the economies of Canada, U.S. and Mexico, thrive and bring prosperouse balance to all three countries. Unfortunately, the only countries that have benefitted are Canada and the U.S.
In Mexico, the only thing NAFTA did was destroy what little economic gains it had made during the previous 25 years before NAFTA.
The U.S. was allowed to flood Mexico with fruits, vegetables and the garment industry forceing a large number working age Mexican citizens to abandon their farms and seek work in urban centers. The workforce soon found out that working for $30 dollars a day in a factory wasn’t enough to rent an apartment in town and buy over priced American produce. U.S. products were selling for about the same price in Mexico as they were here in the U.S. The next logical solution was to migrate where your income was more in line with the cost of living; the U.S.
Not only did NAFTA help ruin the Mexican economy, it also put a large number of American workers out of a job. And although many of those Americans were retrained, their cost of living went up while their income went down; the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer. (look it up, I’m sure there’s a book on the subject)
I ask you…How can we reverse the trend? How can we convince our political and civic leaders that an economic system that can pay the CEO of EXXON $400 million for one year of service, while 90% of Americans are living from pay check to pay check is wrong?
Where is the outrage in that Mr. Minuteman? I’m sure there are quite a few Minutemen family members that are still feeling the side effects of NAFTA…
II forgot to mention my sources.
1. Several articles on the subject; most notable:
Tricks of the Free Trade published by MetroActive September 16-22, 2006. Q and A conversation with Dr. Ann Aurilia Lopez.
Also, first hand information from my uncle, Miguel Moreno in Aguas Calientes, Mexico. The cost to run his ice cream business Tripled after NAFTA.
Uncle Jose Moreno in Guadalajara, Mexico. He owns apartments and ran a mom and pop store. He had to close his store because his clients couldn’t afford his prices, which he had to raise to compete with NAFTA policies.
And finally, my uncle Augustine Moreno in Juchipilla Zacatecas, Mexico. He owns a Mom and Pop store and several guava orchards. He has had to destroy his guava crop several times because he can’t compete with the flood of American corporation imports.
There’s a difference between denotation and conotation, Jack. Pretty much everybody but you, Jack, understands that the word “vigilante” conotes violence, not mere vigilence.
Gil #46: we can’t use the minutemen to rid the dowtown of hip hoppers and vatos locos, since they are armed, and the minutemen are not.
However, if the minutemen could be coaxed to drive to district three in their Hummers and Yukons and blast The Osmonds and Karen
Carpenter from their high end sound systems, the hiphoppers and vatos locos would flee dowtown within an hour.
My, how we reveal ourselves when we blog…
Mr. Van Zandt, unable to make his case against the Minutemen, grabs his official, Lofty Liberal™ label-maker, squeezes off “white guys”—click, click, click—“purchasing power”—click, click, click—“SUVs,” and deludes himself into thinking he’s made a point, rather than having simply clicked-off a profile based on race, gender, class warfare, and eco-arrogance.
I know, I know, things would be much better for you if those damn Minutemen would just shoot a few dozen poor Mexicans. Then, finally, you could base your demonization of them on something more respectable than just prejudice.
Mr. Gil Hernandez, on the other hand, has actually dug up a few examples of what might be considered, at worst, politically incorrect offenses committed by Minutemen members (or supporters) to bolster his belief that Minuteman Project members are busy committing atrocities against the illegals out in the desert. Interesting. But what is not of a concern for this would-be defender of the innocent are the very real victims of the very real, felony crimes committed in California by the tens of thousands of illegal aliens criminals locked-up in our penitentiaries.
For those of you unfamiliar with this type of thinking, it is what one must do when prejudice runs so hot and deep in one’s soul that it overwhelms one’s powers of reason.
And, lastly, there is Mr. Refugio Moreno, who shares his mastery of fact and analysis with us, only to succumb to his emotions and allow his own prejudices to spoil his otherwise excellent post by asking, “Where is the outrage in that, Mr. Minuteman?”
The fact that there exists other reasons for outrage in an issue of such complexity constitutes a very poor reason to chastise a group that has chosen to protest the outrage most evident. If a group of citizens, taken refuge at the edge of their burning town, voiced their outrage over the failure of their fire service, would you feel it proper to belittle or dismiss their complaints because you had discovered that insufficient hydrant placement was a contributing factor?
From the onset, the Minuteman Project was attacked as an example of white racism, a charge that has proved a lot easier to make than to prove. To date, I’m aware of no evidence that indicates that the group has any other agenda other than its originally stated demand for secure borders. But, as is the case with so many of the outrageous charges that are aimed at white people in this society, that lack of evidence has hardly slowed the criticism, dampened the outrage, or attenuated the prejudice.
Alas, once again, an old sage is proved right:
Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out.
Sydney Smith (1771 – 1845)
# 56 FFn
The Minutemen have every right to protest what they beleive to be a in intrussion in their way of life as Americans. The question of “Where is the outrage Mr. Minuteman?” is my opinion that they are not seeing the whole picture; they are seeking simple answers to a complicated issue. And, as usual, the weakest voice is the easiest to blame.
#30
Gil,
Keep your money. The San Jose Athletic Club is a awfully managed place. They’ll take your money and run. They did that to me.
You’re better off renting a van and take those individuals whose never seen the other side of the border before. That would really change their perspective.