The way the major corporations have been acting the past few years, you would think that they believe themselves to be above the Constitution. Right here in Silicon Valley, the latest corporate scandal—where members of the HP board and Chairwoman Patricia Dunn have apparently been caught red-handed spying on their employees and on journalists—adds a nice new euphemism, “pretexting,” for a couple of common crimes, endemic in American corporate culture, to the list of white-collar conspiratorial activities. Dunn excuses her decision to order the spying by saying she did not know that pretexting (an Orwellian construct if there ever was one) meant any laws would be broken when she hired a firm of investigators to obtain the personal information of the company’s targets. That’s hilarious, given that the defined action of pretexting combines the crimes of fraud and identity theft in a very creative manner. Call it what you want, it’s still a felony and Dunn and anyone else involved should be accorded the prescribed punishment under the law if they are found guilty. As we all know from high school civics, “ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
I wonder where they got that idea they could do such a thing at HP? Could it be from the Bush administration that illegally spies on anyone it likes and justifies it by playing the “national security” card? HP is basically claiming the same, protecting its corporate secrets, which leads one to believe that the big corporations—following President Bush’s example—really do think they are independent entities within the state that are unencumbered by the laws that individual citizens have to follow. Try posing as someone else to steal their credit card information, buy a car with it, and see what happens. And if you hire someone to kill a person you don’t like, you are guilty of first degree murder too. Why shouldn’t the same laws the rest of us have to follow apply to the HP chairwoman and board members who hired identity thieves and paid for the information they stole?
Let’s face it, the concept of democracy that controls our everyday civic life is completely absent from the American corporate-controlled economy. What would happen if you got a majority of your co-workers together to “outvote” your boss? In fact, calling corporate political structure “oligarchic authoritarianism” really seems a positively spun stretch these days. It’s as if the Corleones and the other “five families,” with the collusion of the federal and state governments, are running things with the assistance of their ingenious money-vacuuming device, Wall Street, modeled on a giant Las Vegas roulette wheel (with a brake, of course, controlled by the five families). Ever since an “activist” rightwing court accorded corporations the constitutional rights of citizens without imposing the responsibilities of citizenship, it’s been plain sailing for the big-board giants to develop a code of conduct based on their creed: profit über alles.
With this current scandal at HP and the other visible one in Silicon Valley concerning stock options, our local corporations of relatively recent vintage have joined the pantheon of other star-studded lawbreakers, law stretchers and violators of ethics like Enron, Halliburton and members of the oil industry. I know, spying on your employees is small potatoes compared to the massive fraud of Enron and the war profiteering of Halliburton, but given enough time, anything is possible, even our country’s transformation into a corporate state where the Constitution is neutralized and the civil and human rights of the many take a back seat to the profits of the few. We are nearly there already.
JVZ, where have you been? There is tons of sleeze in the Silicon Valley corporate upper levels because there is tons of money for the taking. You might want to go through the Mercury New Silicon Valley 150 list of top public companies and look at the compensation packages of some of the executives. It should shock you. In some cases executives get hundreds of millions of dollars in a single year. And for what? Leadership? Corporate value creation. Oh, right.
Time to change the silly name of the arena again??
WOW! what a tirade about something that is really an “in-house” problem with management. But to expand it to include the Republican party is really reaching for smoke.
Your statement about the workers banding together and out voting the Boss is very funny because that situation exsists today in Socialist Europe, it’s called Workers Council. This is not union activity but direct intervention in the management of the company when they are a certain size. If you think that is good then go open a business there and experience it.
Your proclaiming the management of HP guilty equates to the usual Demo bull. Think you should wait until someone is actually proven guilty. Just a little thing that the Constitution guarantees. At this time the Politicians, HP internal and outside HP, are making noise for headlines. Ms. Dunn has been in the fire pot for some time and this mess has all the earmarks of a good old corporate backstabbing and politics. The management of HP have been doing a great job turning things around and maybe there were some old guard didn’t like the changes. Non of this is our business as long as it stays in the family but in this case someone (?) went to far. But not as far as your trying to equate this to national politics. Very cheap shot on your part.
But, Bush makes it so easy to take a shot. You can’t wrap yourself in the Constitution only when it suits your needs. That pesky old document is around all the time—even when you (Bush) wishes it wasn’t.
Patricia Dunn -> HP -> HP Pavilion -> SJ Sharks -> Greg Reyes
I, too, am outraged by “independent entities” operating “unencumbered by the laws.” Anyone who steals the identity of another deserves to “be accorded the prescribed punishment under the law.” Do these corporate bastards think themselves above the law? As Mr. VanZandt makes clear, the misappropriation of names, social security numbers, etc. is so serious an issue that its got even hardcore liberals demanding enforcement.
Except, that is, against illegal aliens.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6814673/
RIP the HP Way
Mr. van Zandt:
You sound bitter. Are you one of those who can’t find another high paying job in the public sector where you can’t be fired and that the private sector doesn’t want because of your anti-everything that is not the left wing views?
Ah, our frustrated denizen of the slime has surfaced here. And, of course he finds a way to bring in race and blame the problem on his biggest enemy, liberals. I’m sure none of this would have happened if the Republicans were in charge of all 3 branches of government. Oh, wait a minute, they are. Too bad FF, as usual your hatred and color driven view of the world is out of touch with reality. But, I’m sure you will find a way to say it’s my fault and Bill Clinton’s fault, and the Dems and liberals, etc. etc. In fact you will blame everybody but the folks whose fault it actually is. Way to go FF>
#9,
RU really so brainwashed that the mere use of the term “illegal aliens” causes you to surrender cognition and reflexively spew politically-correct invectives?
RU incapable of recognizing that regardless of one’s political persuasion or socioeconomic status, committing the act of identity theft is a crime, one with real victims?
RU too dense to understand that turning Mr. VanZandt’s own, politicized argument against him is a legitimate manner of debate?
RU so defensive of your insupportable beliefs that any argument that threatens them can only be interpreted by you as evidence of a delusional reality?
RU aware that not a single word in my post that deals with RACE, BLAME, or BILL CLINTON?
RU prone to seeing things that are not there?
RU on psych meds?
RU Kidding… only yourself?
Thanks for the psychoanalysis, Dr. FF. I won’t waste much time since you obviously do this for sport and not to actually make a point.
I didn’t say anything about identity theft not being real or not being an important issue that needs to be addressed.
My point, and I’ll try to state it as simply as possible so you can understand it, is that not every ill of society is solely the fault of illegal immigrants or liberals.
No need to reply but I am sure you will because you haven’t used up your insult quota for the day.
Peace out.
Have you seen this news story yet? It was on KTVU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dRTz7ukONM
RU,
Thanks for clarifying the point you never even approached making in your first post—you know, the post in which you repeatedly insulted me for doing nothing more than having the audacity to state something that you have no chance of refuting.
Check out this news article from KGO:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=4559458
Frustrated Finfan, You need a hug dude. We’ve printed out all of your posts, and dude, you are a canidate for a major F*#k the World stroke.
You must work for the Mayors Office.
Take a time out dude.
D.O.A.
13. Rose Garden Dad
The Bush Administration’s massive warrantless wiretapping program in defiance of the FISA laws was declared illegal by a Federal judge last month, who said Bush’s actions were unconstitutional and he was acting more like a king than a president. The Administration is busy pressuring Congress to pass laws to make the practice legal, even though it is in direct conflict with the Constitution’s 4th Amendment. Meanwhile, the Bush Administration is failing in its bid to force the Senate to pass laws to legalize its violations of the Geneva Convention in the treatment of prisoners after the Supreme Court ruled Bush was acting illegally. Bush is also seeking to redefine the status of the Geneva Conventions in US law to avoid application of any charges made by the international court in the Haague against him as a war criminal, which could be brought in light of his defiance of the international treaty which now has the full force of US law behind it. He must be afraid of something.
#3 Glenn Smith
This is not an “in-house” problem at HP but a criminal issue for the courts and is very much the public’s business. I believe in the US Constitution and that the rule of the supreme law of our country applies to everyone, including presidents and corporate officers. May I remind you that the matter is under investigation by the state attorney general, and not only is it alleged that HP resorted to fraud and identity theft to spy on its own employees, but also to spy on journalists and maybe others to become known as the investigation proceeds. Even though Dunn has admitted to the illegal actions “euphamized” by the word “pretexting,” I agree she is innocent until proven guilty and that a court must try the case and prescribe punishment according to the law, just as I said in my column.
Funny thing was printed in the MN today, a few articles saying that maybe there was no law broken in this case and also that HP people may not have been infromed about the actions of the investigators. Suggest you jumped the gun with your posting and really should be ashamed of your conduct. I do maintain that it really is a “in-house” problem until someone can actually show evidence of actions that are illegal and a threat to public law and order. If you had your way, we;d be having another lynching in St. James Park.
Just wondering, but some seem to be saying that you can do whatever you want as long as it isn’t illegal. Have our standards sunk so low that the ethics of right and wrong don’t matter anymore?? Too bad.
#18 Glenn
I have read the two main articles in the Mercury News today regarding HP and what you say is incorrect. One article details how HP chair Dunn and other members have been summoned to testity to Congress to explain their actions. And there are independent expert legal opinions given in the other article that clearly indicate that the actions taken to obtain the personal information were illegal, backing up the opinion of the California attorney general. The following quote from the Merc today says it all:
“California Attorney General Bill Lockyer says the pretexting broke state laws and his office will file criminal charges. Other investigations are being conducted by the Justice Department, Federal Communications Commission, Federal Trade Commission/chk and the Energy & Commerce’s investigative subcommittee.”
That sounds pretty serious to me. But we’ll have to wait and see what happens as all these investigations proceed and charges are filed. One thing is for sure, it is not an “in-house” issue.
Read for yourself:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/15528890.htm
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/15525361.htm
At the present time it appears that a lot of posturing is going on for the media, the old could be, maybe, etc. Why are they in such a hurry to condem. Obvious reason, make political hay while it’s still news. Who did it hurt, HP employees at the most and the Directors should be considered as employees. It doesn’t make it right but this rush to make someone guilty doesn’t help either. A lot of people could suffer seriously from this. This is A HP affair for the moment and should stay that way until proff is out in the open. When the facts come out a few politicians may have red faces.
jack or friends of jack: please defend the ‘bush illegally spies on anyone he likes’ statement. This sounds like the sort of unanswered nonsense that fits better on rant sites like dailykos than on considered sites like this one. You diminish a good argument with BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) nonsense like that.
Jack –
It seems as if you are the one who places corporations above the law. Ordinary citizens are typically afforded the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. however, given recent history of this site, it comes as no surprise to me that you and others on this blog have jumped in early to condemn the organization before all of the facts are in.
You are right though. I think that we should do something to stop these horrible corporations in their tracks. How do companies like HP even think for a second that they can get away with their evil-doing ways? Let’s put a stop to it right now and kick them out of the area. Maybe then they will:
*Stop employing over 10,000 Silicon Valley workers with good salaries and exceptional benefits. (We don’t need their stinking corporate jobs here!)
* Stop those greedy good-for nothings from donating over $45 million of their hard-earned corporate revenues to non-profits and millions more to education. (Including grants and donations to organizations like Junior Achievement, American Red Cross, Achievekids, After School All-Stars and many other local organizations aimed at helping kids, women afected by domestic abuse and supporting and celebrating ethnic diversity in our local communities)
These are all examples of HP’s self-serving and egotistic corporate cultutre that thrives on driving nohting but profits. I mean really, giving money and resources to the Ronald McDonald House of San Francisco? Any corporation that supports an organization that provides a home for kids and their families during lenghty hospital stays has got be all about profit right? The nerve of those corporate weasels!
Make no mistake, the accusations regarding the current issue with the board is serious stuff, and I expect that if violations of the law or even common decency are discovered in both the internal and external investigations currently underway, steps are taken to ensure that violators are punished and that this sort of activity is never allowed again. However, until we know what really went down, let’s hold off the lynch-mob sleaze campaign mentality that unjustly tarnishes the reputation of one of this community’s strongest supporters.
Mark #2: Right on! Way to put the knee-jerkers in their place.