I recently read where Forbes magazine named San Jose as the “Richest City in the U.S.” We may be the richest when it comes to money, but are we the poorest when it comes to fun?
What happened to the days where you would meet coworkers for happy hour or take clients out to eat? What I see in the Bay Area now are tech geeks that are more than happy to spend 12-hour days in their cubicles, and less time out on the town.
There has definitely been a shift in our culture. People don’t dress up for work anymore. People don’t eat lunch out anymore, not to mention the death of the three-martini lunch (dammit!). People don’t go to happy hour after work, and people definitely don’t feel the need to be as social as they once were. We even get our coffee in drive-thru lines to avoid having to socialize with other people.
We take life so seriously in the Bay Area, and we don’t stop to enjoy life enough. Maybe it is too expensive to have a balance between life and work, and people feel that if they won’t work the 12-hour day they can be replaced by someone who will. (Or it’s transplants from other countries on HB-1 visas that feel that with one wrong move they are shipped back to their home country.) Maybe the real problem is there are simply too many member of the Geek Squad that would rather sit at their computers than socialize with human beings in San Jose.
We need to take a page from life in other cities or even other countries. In San Francisco, people still have time for the nice dinner, the long lunch, and still wear suits to work. In Silicon Valley, men wear khaki shorts and the latest conference-booth polo and considered that “dressed up.” They order on Waiter.com, pick up a meal and then spend their whole lunch hour writing code at their desk. If being the most successful and richest area in the world comes with the downside that people don’t have any fun, than Forbes can take that title back, because I don’t want it!
Is there any way to change this or is this how life is going to be in San Jose forever?
Singal Gal,
Key differences in a suburb to a real city:
Real City has:
more concentration of poeple poeple living in it.
more single 20 and 30 somethings
Less sprawl
more restaurants, bars and nightclubs
more entertainment venues and “arts” venues
Our Suburban City:
all the people are spread out in boring suburbs neighborhoods
not enough bars, restaurants and nightclubs
only an arena and few tired entertainment venues
Arts groups – give me a break
Single people; we are not encouraged to go downtown. The police state says stay away.
What happened to dealing with topics of substance on SJ Inside? For example, the City Council today will be dealing with the job performance of the “City Manager” who is second only to Gonzo in being responsible for the downward spiral of morale in City Hall and who has presided over more questionable “management” decisions than any manager in recent memory. The Council will also hold a secret discussion about if they should give away public land to a private group to keep a soccer team here. There’s lots more that’s not even being reported and SJ Inside is blazing the trail of truth with a discussion about whether or not we are having enough fun.
If this board isn’t rescued soon it will never get the chance to reach the potential that many of us hoped it would have when it started.
Oh No! –
You must be a real hoot to hang out with.
I think that our “way of life” is a very important topic.
San Jose.. Man, this place gets me so depressed sometimes. I often dream that San Jose could overtake SF as the place to be in the Bay Area, but we have so much riding against us.
1. Bad Reputation. For what? For so many things. 80/20 men to women ratio. Of those men, 10% are actually interesting. Of those women, 50%. Over-aggressive Police. Un-friendly downtown. 2AM city shut down. Nothing interesting downtown. No landmarks of interest. I could go on…
2. Airport location. Whose stupid(?) idea was it to put an “International” airport 5 minutes from San Jose’s “Downtown”? This has got to be the biggest limiting factor on downtown’s growth. Limits the height of buildings. Limits the people who want to live downtown due to airplane noise. Who wants to hang out at a (nice and new) park with loud airplanes flying over it every 2 minutes? Geez.. the airport has got to be the nail in San Jose’s coffin.
3. Being in the Giants territory. Lets face it, we have little chance to get the A’s. As much as I want them here (I really, really do), Bud Selig is not going to allow it and our city is not committed enough to try to get them.
4. Santana Row. Why in the heck did we not get Santana Row in downtown?!?!?! Santana Row is a great place to eat, hang out and PEOPLE WATCH. There is nothing like that in downtown and now other “suburban” areas are building these Santana Row-esqe places (Sunnyvale, Milpitas) that will further take away from what downtown SJ should be a mecca for. THIS IS SUCH A LET DOWN!!
5. Big Business in Downtown. We have one major company located in Downtown San Jose, Adobe. How come San Jose isn’t trying harder to bring corporations to the heart of Downtown? There should be a team of people trying to persuade businesses to move downtown. How come we’re losing out to cities like Sunnyvale and Mountain View?
There is so much riding against San Jose.. like I said, SJC has to be the biggest limit to growing downtown… Its such a let down.
Gal,
While you have nailed the geek behavior perfectly (cubicle preferred over socializing) it’s also a matter of corporate greed. Expecting to accomplish more with a smaller payroll. This maneuvering has effectively held everyone’s nose to the grindstone for quite a few years now.
Unfortunately, our corporate culture here has a very geeky slant to it so I don’t hold much hope for a situation like SF.
Why anyone continues to compare SJ with SF escapes me. It’s like comparing an apple to the winner of the Half Moon Bay giant pumpkin contest.
Single Gal—Actually I am a lot fun, but there is a time and place. Given the major issues being discussed in SJ, I just thought it might be more appropriate to talk about them. I’m not saying your issues should not be discussed, just that today there seems to be more important things to talk about.
I would like to further add..
Take a look at what SF has…
1. Great Waterfront
2. Fisherman’s Warf
3. Alcatraz
4. Golden Gate Bridge
5. NEW De Young Museum
6. SF MOMA
7. Beautiful Skyline
8. Giants
9. 49ers
10. Golden Gate Park
11. Wonderful, diverse neighborhoods
12. Premier downtown shopping (best on the west)
13. Tremendous, growing downtown shopping!
14. Coit Tower
15. Conservatory of Flowers
16. North Beach
17. Moscone Center
The list goes on and on…
I agree with CP. Suburban culture is so evil and lonely. The city mess everything up when want to expand the airport, not moving it elswhere in the valley. What a screw up! Downtown will never be.
Valley culture = work culture.
People come here with dreams and aspirations and work *hard*. That’s the way it’s been and probably always will be.
Don’t like it? Then move your insufferable hiney’s to SF and commute down.
Sadly for many of us 20 somethings in the South Bay, I’d have to agree with Single Gal and CP. However, it does not seem like we are without hope.
I think the city has done the right thing in allowing developers to finally build residential towers downtown without the low income housing burden. While we will obviously never be SF, getting some more professionals living downtown hopefully will help. But buildings aren’t built overnight.
So, as for the short term, I think it’s all about the Baby Bullet unfortunately. Even though a place in SOMA is ridiculously expensive, what can you do? You only have so much time in your 20’s and 30’s. I’m just hoping by the time I have kids they won’t face the same dilemma.
and one other thing, OhNo you are a total buzzkill. This may not seem important to you but it is for many of us. There is an Open Thread where you can post about garbage cans all you want.
Novice..
So there aren’t hard workers in SF or NY? The difference is those hard workers know how to let off some steam with a drink or dinner on the town.
BTW, I agree with RGC. I still think there’s hope. With upcoming residential properties and some better advanced planning by the SJ Redev, downtown still has some hope. I love San Jose, but I think San Joseans(?) deserve better.
And again.. Why oh why is SJC so close to downtown. Whose decision was that?
On being one of the “Geek Squad” working in the Valley: it’s not easy being one of the few workers in the Tech industry who gets involved in any way with the curent issues affecting San Jose and thus the South Bay. Especially as someone who sometimes uses a bus instead of driving solo like everyone else for commuting, I am often seen as a pariah instead of someone doing the right thing for myself and the environment. Their loss.
When I moved to Santa Cruz 1.5 years ago to avoid the (overpriced and boring) Valley, and before I signed the lease on my townhouse there, I accepted the fact that i would have long commutes and having to continue to go to The City for any social activities. (In fact, I go to The City every other month just to get my haircut.) Given VTA’s and the County Supes’ push for Yet Another Sales Tax in November 2006, my “voting with my feet” is proving to be a wiser decision daily.
Speaking of VTA and more sales taxes, this Thursday (assuming Ron or Cindy or any San Jose pol on the VTA Board doesn’t defer it) morning at 9am, the VTA Board is to discuss Yet Another Sales Tax for having BART here on the November 2006 ballot. Make of VTA’s ongoing insanity what you will. I already wrote something about this, and the lack of accountability at VTA, to the Merc but from my experience, it will be published on a Saturday (if at all) when few people will read it.
In the end, we as a people need to start taking more responsibility for who represents us and our own future, lest we end up having history label us as playing a key role in San Jose’s demise as a community.
Eugene Bradley
Founder, Santa Clara VTA Riders Union
http://www.vtaridersunion.org/
The valley we choose to live in is technical/engineering centric. As in Silicon Valley, The Capital of Silicon Valley, etc.
If you want movie stars, artisans, beatniks, or any other brand of flakes and the establishments that cater to them, then go there.
San Jose is a suburban community for technical worker bees.
Deal with it. Otherwise move on.
BTW, has local political discussion been given the month off on this board?
We as citizens should start demanding answers as to Bart to SJ. Are we being taxed for something that will never materialize? I personally think so!
Bart as an option is looking more and more as a multi-billion dollar fantasy that will never happen. There are better less costly alternatives to that Bart to SJ route. One real viable and more efficient route. The use of VTA light rail linking up with Fremont Bart Station or the possible future Warm Springs station. Another option is Caltrain. The Caltrain option is more interesting. Caltrain would be electrified and connect North SJ, the Airport and finally downtown.
It would be called Caltrain Metro East, it comes from transportation visionary Michael Kiesling, and they have illustrated the concept, as well as the BART plan, with detailed maps, so you can compare and contrast both of them. The cost and time frame would be very far less then the current Bart to SJ option.
Go check out http://www.sfcityscape.com “A better way to San Jose”
sfcityscape is a great website on community issues and online journal on bay area urban design.
CP, there have been plans presented for alternative airports over the years. Moffett Field was one, but neighboring communities would have none of it. Alviso/Milpitas was another plan, with approaching traffic traveling directly above US 101 well to the east of downtown. That one also met with too much opposition from neighboring communities. South county was another one that never flew. So the airport stayed put. It was already too late to relocate by the time any of the lame people in charge around here started to think about it.
I’m trying to convince myself that downtown SJ can still amount to something with its height limitations and capitalize on the more human scale it must work with.
This town seriously needs a major visionary in office and some SF style philanthropy from all the new money types to get something going here.
Its funny to see how some of you are waiting for new residential buildings and other types of development downtown before we can have a “better” downtown. It all takes time and I still don’t believe that is the complete solution. Lets work with what we have now, how about getting away from this police state and actually make people feel welcomed downtown. Encourage the night clubs to give discounted cover charge / 1st drink / appetizer to sanjoseans, let give people a reason to come back out and like the “new” experience….just a thought. As a Sanjosean, I would like it and appreciate it.
Craig,
You are so right. Bart is a pipe dream, and there are more viable options out there that make more sense financially, and realistically. The funniest or unreal passenger (VTA) projections for Bart to SJ are just plain laughable. They are projecting 87,200 boarding daily by year 2025 and 111,000 by 2030 for the riders of the SJ Bart line.
The only way you could get those kinds of figures is if San Jose adds 144 million square feet of office space or residential buildings in downtown. The buildings would have to be all fully occupied, or everyone who works downtown decides not use there cars at all to commute downtown. The likely increase in office development to 144 million is more unreal because of the SJ downtown development limitations on height and size. Clearly a pipe dream indeed.
Back in 1999 they projected 10,000 daily riders, then a year later 45,000 riders, now they are projecting 111,000 for 2030, can anyone say crazy.
http://vtawatch.blogspot.com/ “Clear cut fraudulent rider ship projection”
All. BART will never happen. Yes, you are paying taxes for something that will not happen, but that is the fault of anyone who was foolish enough to vote for the absurd idea of bringing BART to SJ. Be sure to vote NO on the new sales tax being pushed for BART.
We need to admit now that, like with Bush and Iraq, we were intentionally misled by Gonzales, the SVMG, and other Bart supporters. Misleading and absurd ideas appears to be a common trait amongst incompetent politicians.
Now for what needs to be done. We need to close the San Jose airport and build another airport in Hollister, or some other remote location. Then connect SJ to the airport with a high-speed train, maybe mag-lev. This makes more sense than BART to SJ. Perhaps we can get the tax money for BART transferred to this project.
Also, we need to stop the current SJI expansion. Throwing more money at a failed idea is not very smart. Maybe that’s why Ron G. supports it.
Closing SJI will open up all the land currently wasted on the airport for parks, residences, and businesses that are compatible with downtown. Additionally, it will improve the quality of life for all of San Jose, and Santa Clara county. Downtown is not the location for an airport.
GirlFromTheNet.
Its not as simple as that. I would move, but mine and my wife’s jobs are located in San Jose… and she’s been here all her life and I’ve lived here for 10+ years.
Plus, why not try to improve San Jose. I don’t like seeing our downtown businesses struggling to stay in business. I don’t like hearing about how bad it is downtown.
It may sound like bickering and whining to you.. but I learned a long time ago Closed Mouths Don’t Get Fed. I’m not asking for anything detrimental to San Jose, I’m protesting to make San Jose a better place for all.
Craig,
You are wrong. BART will happen.
It will stop in front of the downtown baseball stadium, just down the street from the soccer complex.
The BART train will be driven by an invisible 6 foot tall rabbit and become so wildy popular it will turn a profit which will, of course, be refunded to the taxpayers.
Move the airport to Morgan Hill or Coyote Valley
Novice –
You either spend a lot of time in online chat rooms to get your social interaction or you are already married. Which one is it?
Girl,
I’d move out of SJ and the Bay Area to somewhere south of Point Conception if I could. But my job demands that I stay put.
Besides, how many working stiffs who are homeowners could afford the higher property taxes if they moved? Mine would nearly triple if I sold my house and bought its equivalent in a similar real estate market.
So we’re stuck here Girl. It would be nice if we were stuck in a town that had some “there” there, that’s all.
Girl for the Net and Novice, It’s very clear that you’re not from here and have no roots here or you would understand that this area has been more than just a home to Yahoo, etc.
There are many of us with deep ties to San Jose, who were born and raised here and have older parents and family members who need us around.
You may find this hard to believe but people actually lived in San Jose before the dot com boom.
Every city or town is always pushing to make itself better, why can’t we do the same? Look at what Philly, Austin, Dallas, San Diego to name a few are doing.
To the VTA knowledgeable types.
A few years ago there was a study that ranked national transit projects. SJ lightrail came in dead last based on ridership and the % of operational costs subsidized by taxpayers.
Has there been any recent independant studies that show the status of SJ lightrail today?
My hunch is that by continuing to build out lightrail (eg 300 million dollar Alum Rock line), ‘we’ are exacerbating a money losing sinkhole.
Aren’t Measure A (or B or …) ‘development’ dollars currently being used to cover lightrail operational costs?
28. Given the backgrop of scandal, corruption, and waste that emanate from city hall, I as a taxpayer do not want this city to embark on *any* ‘grand’ projects until the schools and roads in SJ are better than those found in anytown Mississippi.
Is that an unreasonable request?
Novice,
Wouldn’t economic investment lead to more money for roads, services etc…
We can fight over nickles and dimes or invest them together and actually do something that supplies jobs / investment opporunities.
I am sure the arena has proven this.
I am not an out of towner. I was born and raised here since 1967. I have parents and grandparents that lived and died here. Why do you think I take offense when people want to make us like San Francisco or any other city. Maybe I got it all wrong and you guys just want our city to be as vibrant as San Francisco. The other day, I was watching PBS and they were talking about the history of San Francisco. One thing I found interesting is that by day San Francisco was a working town, and by night it turned into “sin city”. Bars, Gambling, brothels and things like that. San Francisco has been like that since it’s conception and for over 100 years. That’s alot to compete with. I have no problems with making our downtown more vibrant, with art and culture, but we’re not going to do that by puting our city down. Have you ever heard the saying people believe what they hear. If we’re constantly putting down downtown, people are not going to want to go downtown. I mean why would you want to go downtown if you heard through word of mouth that it sucked. Lot of people still don’t know about the renaissance that is taking place there. I think we need to get the word out that things are changing and get people excited about downtown instead of turning them off to it.
Novice.. I would say a lot has transpired to improve roads in San Jose. Schools on the other hand… thats a much bigger problem that will take much longer to fix than incorporating some life into downtown San Jose. We’re talking about big things like improving communication (such a diverse group of people mean many language barriers), cost of living (teachers need to be paid more so we can keep the good ones here!), and so much more.
To #29:
Plans are in the works for our group to do such an independent study of VTA light rail today. Specifically, will the new Vasona line from downtown to Campbell get the ridership VTA claims it will have (4,000 daily riders).
Many in our group (myself included) felt that bus service should have been established between downtown San Jose and Campbell first first in order to build up ridership. That the new line does not replace an existing bus line first raises suspicions. I can tell you that running trains between Mountain View and Campbell every 15 minutes during rush hours and every 30-60 minutes otherwise will not help in building ridership at all.
In fact, in January we will be doing a 6-month evaluation of service along VTA’s rapid bus line from Palo Alto to Eastridge, the 522.
One other thing: you already know about the MIT study of transit agencies that lists VTA as the nation’s least efficient, right?
Eugene Bradley
Founder, Santa Clara VTA Riders Union
http://www.vtaridersunion.org/
Yahoo!/AOL IM: eegenebradley
I went to Trials Pub last night and had a great meal and wine after a long day at work. I met a number of very nice people who happen to live in the “new” downtown housing. Granted they aren’t my age but good conversation nonetheless.
The great thing about Trials is there are no TVs so people don’t sit around staring at it – you HAVE to talk. It’s a neighborhod pub so it is great after a day of work.
My 2 cents.
Local,
I’m just curious what the downtown residence had to say about living in downtown?
Why don’t you guys just stop complaining and move to San Francisco.
This is why I think we have an identity problem is because people like you guys sitting around constantly whinning about why can’t we be like other cities. If you guys like what those cities have to offer, then move there. Simple as that.
Hey boneheads, I agree with GirlFromTheNet that downtown is not in dire situation as you guys are making out to be. Downtown has been under going a renaissance for the last 25 years and still going. Come and take a look at the 24/7 downtown now. Downtown has everything you want! By the way, downtown Philly and Austin are fine, but there are alot of gaps in the core over those cities, and there redevelopment efforts are few years behind us, although they got more established retail districts, namely Philadelphia. Hell, the Philly’s housing stocks and restaurants are good, but take a walk around. You’ll see many of the city’s attractions are fewer and farther apart. There are alot more dead spots and scummy areas that need redevelopment attentions/ alot more than San Jose. I was there recently. So, stop whining about downtown San Jose, and the grass always seem greener on the other side.
In a way, both viewpoints are correct. Downtown is pretty lame for a city this size and the truckloads of money that have been poured into it over the decades. But, on the other hand, it could be a lot worse. It is not wrong to criticize the bad and to want to make it better . Those who tend to be downtown boosters tend to lack vision and become very territorial. Downtown should offer something for just about everyone and it does not. The city “leadership” continues to want to make it something it will never be and until that mentality is removed from the Council this argument will continue. It should be very simple—give the people what they want and they will frequent downtown. Don’t give them that and they will go elsewhere. The Council doesn’t get it and some of you don’t get it.
The bottom line is that most of the criticism is legitimate. Those who think downtown is swell as it is should work with the rest of us to make it even better.
Fed Up Blogger,
24/7 downtown? That is CRAZY. I do not know what downtown you have been to, but that is certainly not San Jose, with the police telling everyone to leave downtown by 10:30pm. You can’t find anything 24/7 in SJ downtown.
.
Fed Up Blogger,
You are the real bonehead.
We take life seriously in the bayarea because our rent and mortages are outrageous. We have to work 13 hour days just to make ends meet. So don’t you think we should be allowed to wear shorts to work, and after those long ours in the office, don’t you think we’re entitled to go home and have a little rest? Besides, when did fun only consist of yakking it up over a beer at happy hour. News flash, there is more to life then just drinking. Every time you guys talk about fun, it consistantly revolves around alcohol. People go to different places and do different things for fun. Just because everyone doesn’t head to downtown doesn’t mean we are not fun.
GirlFromNet,
newsflash, drinking IS what guys do for fun. Well, that and bet on sports and hope to meet cute girls, but that’s beside the point.
GirlFromTheNet, most people who live downtown enjoy it. There are some great new apartments. Like most people we work, eat and sleep. Downtown is walkable, easy to maneuver and it is not overcrowded so you feel pretty safe.
Correct, Downtown doesn’t have something for everyone and it is what it is. The “damage” has been done.
We do have:
* A growing number of restaurants and bars. And the Improv.
* San Jose State University (and the library)
* Diversity
* Arts and Theatres (although I would like a new Center of Performing Arts. It is an eyesore and no I haven’t been there lately)
* Sporting Events, festivals and music in the park (more to come…)
* Grocery Shopping (but really can Albertson’s remodel?)
* Hair salons, spas (important to me!)
What we don’t have:
* Shopping (Recognizable Retail – thus downtown doesn’t have something for everyone. But there is no demand yet. Too much shopping elsewhere.)
* A winning “big” four sports team
* A great concert venue. Or a big JJ’s Downtown (no not AJ’s. Why no House of Blues!!!)
* Leadership: An effective Downtown Association or united voice of downtown businesspeople or “voice” of downtown or a special downtown website (do we have one?) or something that is effective and speaks to the downtown population in which it serves – not bringing people who are never going to change their mind about downtown (or SJSU for that matter)
* Parking but not the HUGE problem some make it out to be. Can we get some good directional signage when there are events and detours?
* A HUGE map of downtown visable to all because half of San Jose never comes downtown and they always make negative comments about downtown because they don’t know where they are going or what they are looking for. My PET peeve!
My proposal: When you exit on 87/Santa Clara Street there should be a big sign at the “dead end” that can list upcoming downtown events etc.
*More people to come out of their apartments and make friends and have fun (Thus, single gal’s point).
* There is a ton of new growth downtown. A ton. Can’t wait to take my friends bowling or to University Chicken (when they open). There is definitely more to do – of course!
This list could go on and on…Some people will never give downtown a chance and that’s fine. There are many people who enjoy downtown – lighten up and just get take the time to get to know one!
Steve H, come and check it! When I said downtown is 24/7, it’s alive just about all week long whether people just want to go out or go to Sharks games or to a concert, not to mention watching movies at Camera 12. Oh, by the way, we have a real cool place in the SoFa district called adromino, which is a cool gallery, artist colony hangout. I think that’s what’s called or something like that. Starting early next year, we’ll have jazz at the improve early weekdays. There are nearly 8,000 housing units in the downtown area, and more is on the way, bonehead! So what if the cop tell everyone to get the hell of downtown by 2 am. It keeps the city safe. They exploring the possibilities of keeping places open until 4 am to sober up people, and that’s fine.
I want to party with mmmhmmmm!
I’m not sure I even understand a word that he wrote. Was that supposed to make any sense?
Thanks Local, that was informative…
RGC, if that’s what you like to do for fun, then we got alot of places downtown for that. Except for girls, we probably could use more of those downtown.
When it comes to drinking and parties, I think the Jo is the place to be and the rest of The Bay. Really it is, if you’re really young I suppose and if you don’t mind getting hyphy to E-40, Keak Da Sneak, Nump, Federation, and all them nasty house parties serving 151’s and some hard liquor with PAPER CUPS. Because thats how we do it in nor cal, who in the hell uses glass shots…hah!
So for all of you guys who are asking for alcohol and all that junk, who cares! You want to party? You want to get down somewhere? Then get out. Don’t ask the city of San Jose to do something about that stuff; they need to spend there money on better things. Or just go to Bevs & Mo and get yourself a bottle of hpnotiq and do your own thing. Theres enough drunk asses out there as it is running over and killing people; let alone killing themselves.
RGC,
You know “Jo” is short for San Jose, right? Then, you would be lost right off the bat!
mmmhmmmm Funny read.
Looks like mmmhmmmm is a poster child for alcoholics.
Fed Up Blogger by the way I am a born and raised San Josean that works Downtown at Adobe. So Bonehead Fed Up Blogger I do know what I am speaking about because I have lived here all my life and just simply want it to be better as do a lot people out there.
There are a lot of people here who have great points. SJ is not a 24/7 city.
Where ever happend to populus presents and the two phish crew, did they already give up on San Jose?
Hey Silverman,
According to Bud Selig we are a very large suburb of THE CITY (San Francisco) and we do live in the San Francisco Bay Area.
We talk about the problems because we care and want to see the city thrive. I didn’t know being born and raised in San Jose meant we should just let it stagnate and be happy about it.
And your comment about San Jose not being a suburban city, where exactly are you referring to it not being suburban? Willow Glen, East San Jose, Rosegarden, North San Jose, South San Jose? So far all suburbs. There’s a reason why half the lunch spots in downtown are closed on Sundays. It’s cause everyone went home to their above mentioned neighborhoods.
GirlFromTheNet,
I agree with you about all the whiners on this board. If they don’t like The City (San Jose) they can move to that smaller city to the north if that’s what they like and commute via the baby bullet train. It amazes me that people who claim to have ties to The City seem so compelled to denigrate it so much. And to call San Jose, a city of close to 1 million people a suburb, please that’s the joke of the century. I guess that some people here seem to forget that most modern cities in the U.S. have a denser central downtown core and are more spread out the farther you get from Center City (ie: LA, San Diego, Phoenix, Denver, etc. )
As far as bulding heights go downtown, yes I too would like to see taller skyscrapers in Center City, but the fact of the matter is that as long as the airport is where it is, that’s never going to happen. Of course, taller skyscrapers are not necessary to make Downtown San Jose a better place. A prime example of this is Washington, DC. DC has strict building height limits so that no building is taller than the Capitol, with the exception of the Washington Monument, of course. Despite the fact that DC’s downtown buildings are no taller than about 12 stories, it manages to be a very vibrant city with an urban character.
Hey Steve H Bonehead, how about the Center for the performing art across from you work place? How about the Rep. on Second St.? How about the new California theater on First? How about Camera 12 on Second St. ? How about the Improv? I like going to the Paragon bar/restaurant at the new Montgomery Hotel, likewise for Fairmont lounge. The Loft bar on Second St. is really good, and alot of upscale lounge are good in downtown San Jose. The new Smoke lounge is great. Don’t forget the shark tank and the King library. You don’t like the SoFa district or San Pedro Sq? There are 8,000 housing units in downtown. That’s alot of housing! The Museum of Art is hip since it has activities during some evenings. That’s what I call a 24/7 downtown whether you guys like it or not. It’s a world class downtown and just read on United airline’s magazine’s December edition if you fly on United airline this month. Accept it! For your own interest, go to King’s library downtown at California room and check out the 24hr downtown video about new downtown San Jose. It was made in 1989 by KNTV channel 11, highlighting downtown when it was only half built as it is now since we came a long way from that year!
I just really think that people who live outside of downtown don’t realize people actually live there, visit it or use it. (I am not saying there is not MORE to be done)
Children’s Discovery Museum, for example. If you don’t have children you may never go there. That doesn’t mean that it is not a big attraction.
Christmas in the Park. I think it’s old and boring. But people GO. They are generally not from Los Gatos, Willow Glen or Rosegarden. It doesn’t make it less significant for downtown that all of the $100,000 + money makers don’t go. Same for Music in the Park.
AND there are new restaurants opening near Camera 12. Why? Because they see the opportunity.
I used to live accross from the library. People are waiting for the doors to open like it’s the day after Christmas.
All some of us are saying is…BE VISIONARY in your comments – we already know the faults. Maybe if you list a fault – add a solution. Please!
Just because new places are getting ready to open is no guarantee of anything. The downtown is lttered with the corpses of all the new places that have opened over the years and died.
Many of you unknowingly make the point many of us are making—downtown should be more than just for the people who live directly in the downtown. A real downtown will offer things for people in the outlying areas and give them a reason to “go downtown.” If downtown’s success is based on business from primarily only residents of downtown, then get ready for a new generation of businesses to fail.
I have been witness to all of the changes to downtown since starting at SJSU in 1987. Through the highs (The Ajax Lounge, the Sofa festival, the Arena) and the lows (the Pavillion Shops fiasco, closings of the Cactus Club and FX) San Jose has maintained it’s own character and is showing definite signs of improvement.
Sure, alot of the bars play rap which brings thugs downtown who in turn bring cops downtown. But how else are we supposed to protect the 30 or so cultural snobs that actually go to the new Fox theater and San Jose Rep ( both funded by taxpayers for millions.)
All kidding aside, our city should be not be trying to emulate San Francisco or Las Vegas or New York. It should try to be even better. And for that you have to look to Europe, not to be like it but to use their good ideas.
Idea 1: Pedestrian zones – Cars complicate foot traffic. Foot traffic drives business. Shut down 1st and 2nd street from St. John to San Salvador allowing only cross traffic and light rail and business would thrive alon that corridor. It would also encourage street performers (hopefully no mimes) and maybe even a few late night hotd or roasted corn vendors. Best of all the police wouldn’t have to block off the street because they would all ready be blocked. They could patrol on foot and make everyone feel safe instead of threatened.
Idea 2: No curfews for taxpaying adults – Believe it or not Vegas and New Orleans did not invent the 24 hour party. It isn’t about getting wasted it at any hour; it is about letting people prolong their good times and letting businesses profit from it. For a country big on freedom we sure have a lot of rules that treat us like children.
Idea 3: Live music venues. We actually had this right for a long time and then we blew it. I am not a big fan of national chains but the House of Blues would have brought a wide range of innovative popoular music acts (that can’t yet fill an arena) to the South Bay. The Fox Theater is nice, but it would be cool if we could hear music from this century there from time to time.
That’s my two cents. Oh transit guys, give up on BART already. San Mateo County killed that dream a long time ago. CalTrain running once an hour all night would be sufficient. Add an extra ACE train for the east bay folks and that should cover it….
Hey Mitchell,
As far as Bud Selig is concerned, he obviously does not know what he is talking about. By definition, a suburb has a smaller population that largest urban city in the region. Therefore, based on the fact that San Francisco has a smaller population than San Jose, it doesn’t make sense to say that San Jose is a suburb of San Francisco. If anything, San Francisco is a suburb of The City (San Jose) based on the fact that San Jose is BOTH the economic and population center of the Greater San Jose Bay Area.
I guess you forgot that back in 2003 the U.S. Census renamed the Bay Area the San Jose/San Francisco/Oakland Bay Area, basically declaring San Jose as the top city in the Bay Area region meaning that it is now the San Jose Bay Area. Here’s a link to the article which talks about it.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/07/18/MN274269.DTL
RGC,
Willow Glen, East San Jose, Rosegarden, North San Jose, and South San Jose are distinct neighborhoods or districts of the City and are not suburbs. By definition, a suburb is an incorporated town or city of smaller population which surrounds the largest urban city. Examples of suburbs would be Los Gatos, Santa Clara, or Mountain View. Each is its own distinct town or city unto itself.
Many other newer urban American cities are layed much like San Jose with a dense central core surrounded by lower density neighborhoods. Examples would include Phoenix, San Diego, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, etc.. So are all those suburbs too???
Where ever happend to … the two phish crew, did they already give up on San Jose?
Posted by GirlFromTheNet
Thursday, December 01 at 05:05 PM
Here’s the answer to your question:
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/11.30.05/anno-0548.html
In 1956, when I was seven years old, we visited San Jose (from Missouri). Twelve years later, l left home, on my own for the most part, and moved to San Jose.
In 1956, I recall my mom and my aunt shopping at the downtown stores. There were lots of cars and people. In 1968, I was stunned at the change. It was really a disappointment to me. The politicians and developers of that era, the late 50’s-early 60’s, really stuck a knife into the heart of this city. The results of the decisions made in those days are obvious.
For those who are too young to remember, there were multiple proposals to move the airport over the years. Each one would have been an improvement over what exists now. It is not going to happen now. I can’t imagine residents of the south county ever allowing a major airport to be built there. In fact, in today’s climate, it is fortunate that we already have an airport, because it could not be built anywhere in the region.
The downtown that exists now is a far cry from what existed just a decade or two in the past. This city will never be San Francisco. So what? It isn’t important.
Gary,
Am I missing something? The article didn’t mention two phish designs…
Creator (#57): I understand your point about not “just making downtown for people who live there”. First of all, Downtown has never had so many residents. Improvements need to be made to meet the basic needs of a downtown resident. Secondly, the best cheerleaders for downtown its residents (and surrounding neighborhoods) who actually bring people in from the “outside” to discover that it is worth coming here. Call it grassroots marketing. Just one, yet valuable piece of the puzzle.
BTW, went to Smoke (Post/San Carlos) great outdoor patio and a pleasantly trendy crowd at night – I hope they keep up the live music! Haven’t tried the food yet.
SJDTRez, I like your ideas. Particularly about the pedestrian areas. It seems like there was this big Redevelopment “meeting of the minds” to come up with a master plan for downtown. They evaluated similar ideas. I haven’t sifted through it. But here is the Redevelopment Agency website and the current plans:
http://www.sjredevelopment.org/downtown.htm
Local, where exactly do Post & San Carlos intersect?
W, thanks for re-stating that there were attempts in the past to relocate the airport. As I have said before, those attempts came too late not to be faced with stiff opposition and so we are stuck with a “downtown” airport and a stubby skyline. As stated further up, DC has a thriving downtown without skyscrapers, so we can too with help of a visionary/facilitator at the helm. I’m old enough to remember a thriving downtown with department stores and as a kid took the bus downtown to see movies at the many grand old movie houses that were there. We have a lot of company when it comes to destroying all of those great old theaters. It was a national tragedy that nobody seemed to care about stopping.
Silverman, thanks for setting RGC straight on the more urban neighborhoods. I grew up in Rosegarden/College Park a block off The Alameda and downtown was the closest shopping district. Of course we had to go to Valley Fair for Macy’s once the idiots in charge back in the day decided that killing off downtown was the best idea since sliced bread and Hart’s and Hale’s moved (Harts to Westgate) or went out of business (Hale’s).
Bottom line, downtown had the proper scale for a town of maybe 150K people when its decline began. Now that we’re a city of 1M, it’s going to take a while for downtown to catch up. This town’s suburban areas were totally exploding at the same time downtown was imploding. That kind of inverse relationship is what has given us our current situation and while I think the recovery could have been expedited, we still can’t expect “overnight” results. Hopefully the lesson of careful planning has finally been learned and will be properly applied to downtown going forward. We’ve got a long way to go, but I’m optimistic we’re finally on the right track in spite of the across-the-board ineptitude of the sitting council and mayor.
Silverman
You need to tell San Jose City Council that now we live in the San Jose Bay Area, that is because they still call it the San Francisco Bay Area in there official meetings, and on the SJ official website link provided below as well.
http://www.sjeconomy.com/aboutsj/mapsofsj.asp
Does Washington D.C. know the way to San Jose?
No wonder when Ron G goes to Washington D.C. He always has to pull out a map and say that SJ is 50 miles south of SF, or else some US Congressman or Congresswoman thinks he is coming from San Jose, Costa Rica, or they have now clue where San Jose is.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/13311082.htm
Local and Mark T,
The new lounge, Smoke Tiki Lounge, is located on Post and San Pedro. Basically the greyhound block.
The space is really cool (big outdoor patio) and the food was great!
You should try it.
Matt B,
It appears that both of your links don’t work.
The so called “SJ official” website supposedly doesn’t exist and the Mercury News article is apparently no longer available.
Silverman
Your computer must not work or you have a cookie problem. The links do work. The Mercury News article requires that you sign up for the Mercury News online.
Yeah, I figured that was the corner where Smoke was located. I’m looking forward to checking it out.
Gary,
Am I missing something? The article didn’t mention two phish designs…
Posted by GirlFromTheNet
Friday, December 02 at 09:17 PM
It’s the same two people. Brian and Cherri who run the Anno Domini gallery are the couple who are Two Fish Design.
Gary, Thanks for the clarity. That’s great. I really hope they are successful.
Thanks Mark T, I must have had too much fun at Smoke (on Post and San Pedro) to get the streets right! haha. I am glad “another local” enjoyed it too!
CP #7: Do you REALLY want 49rs on that list?
Jesus, CP #13, how old are you? Do you have any idea when SJC was built versus what San Hozay was at the same time?
Been to San Diego? Where is it’s airport. Chicago?, NY/NY?
It’s a real boon not to have to ride for an hour or more to get from the airport to downtown or civic center.
I agree with everything Single Gal said. I am not born and raised in San Jose, but for the last few years have made it my home. When I want to go out I typically commute to SF, get a hotel and call it a day, but that should be totally unnecessary.
San Jose is a completely viable and interesting city, it just doesn’t know it yet. I live downtown and love living downtown and think the city has made some strides to try and make it interesting, but more definitely needs to be done. You can’t even buy clothes downtown
I too enjoy santana row and cannot figure for the life of me why something similar wasn’t created downtown.
But i think one of the problems is a lot of people from san jose, don’t want a “party” atmosphere, and it is abundantly clear that if you’re over 25 in San Jose Work is definitely more important than play. I vehemently disagree but those are the breaks.
We have to change the culture of the city. One poster said we can’t compare San Jose to SF, and he or she was right, besides I hate the weather in SF, one of the reasons I like San Jose, warm summer nights.
But I digress, San Jose must find its own culture and identity and make itself a destination, a place you go to, not a place you leave from.
Its going to take people like Single Gal, other posters who care about the lifeblood of the city (its citizens) and myself, patronizing the spots that really try to give San Jose residents a good time.
The cops can definitely kill a mood, but they’ll never back down.
When I complain, ala Single Gal, people often say to me well go back to LA then. Well if San Jose doesn’t improve its lifestyle and culture I just may have to. But I know more people out there feel like single Gal, and are considering leaving in droves.
I love San Jose, I love the people, this big little city is filled with a ton of history, and a FREE Museum.
But it can be better, a great time can be had.
Maybe I’ll see one of you at a San Jose venue, I’ll be the black dude with a Vodka Tonic (Grey Goose of course) in his hand.
PS I would love to see a baseball team in San Jose.
Two words: line dancing
(translation for old timers: Saddle Rack—
Flying Lady now having been closed for a while
now, but who knows, if they were to re-open
it, maybe even Gavin Newsom himself would
show up once or twice! So let yer hair down,
put a quarter in the jukebox and kick up yer heels!
Silverman,
Face it, you will not be able to change the name of San Francisco Bay to SJ Bay. Give up already. “The City” will always mean SF.