As I travel to new places, I always compare them to San Jose. I spent the weekend in San Diego and noticed that the dynamics of that city are so different from what we have here. There, the beach towns and entertainment scene in Pacific Beach cater to a college-aged crowd and have become overrun with young kids, many of them troublemakers. On the other hand, downtown San Diego is chic, popular, classy and has an entirely different feel to it. People are dressed up in suits and dresses. Clubs have heavy cover charges and $350-per-table bottle service. The big money brings a different clientele and a much different feel.
So why do we have the opposite here in San Jose? Our downtown is overrun with the college-aged kids, troublemakers, loiterers and cruisers, but our “beach bars,” or bars in Los Gatos, Campbell and Willow Glen, tend to attract a different crowd. I am not saying they don’t have their problems, but it’s an interesting dynamic to watch.
In San Diego, they have changed their downtown into something we can strive for here: shopping and fine dining. Although you have to be able to pay through the nose to enjoy the area, it seems to work for them, so why can’t it work for us?
What would happen if the Fairmont decided to open a high-clientele bar on the roof and charge $350 a table? What if we could get a W Hotel downtown and they had an exclusive bar in the lobby that catered to travelers and well-dressed patrons? Would these work in San Jose? Or would they be taken over by the same people that cause trouble downtown now?
I believe that San Jose is starving for some sophistication and that up-market establishments would be a success in our downtown. Cover charges and dress codes would help, but we need developers and people in City Hall who believe that it can and will work.
I’ll be the hated persona to bring up something we’re all thinking but not saying: USDUCSDSDSU <> SJSU. The students, OR the parents who visit them.
why should downtown SJ strive for snooty clubs that charge huge covers and $350/bottle? That demographic can go to Santana Row. What downtown needs is to encourage normal establishments to open there while discouraging the ghetto clubs that cause all of the trouble.
It may be that downtown San Jose seems so stark and barren is because lacks something. It may be heart, soul, identity or something but whatever it is city planners and RDA have missed it. And if these experts missed it how do you expect the average person to find it?
Perhaps if a handsome, unique landmark where downtown people could find downtown.
A small band of downtown locals have been striving for years to get that identifying landmark downtown. its a historic landmark whose restoration began 100 years ago, 2 years after the 1906 earthquake.
This project has been discussed with many civic leaders. Everyone agrees that it would be great to have this landmark in place as a city/cultural attraction. But its like trying to give away kittens, “they’re cute but no thanks.”
Perhaps ordinary people might recoginze the civic pride that would center around this landmark and do something.
Downtown may not have a heart or soul but it could. a site http://www.sjclocktower.org
explains this further.
You basically just said that all the same needs are met and same crowds are satisfied. What bothers you is the reverse nature of it, but why does that matter? If our college kids are happy downtown and our suit-and-dress crowd are fine at Santana Row, what is there to fix? San Jose worries too much about putting its best face at the city core, like it matters.
Interesting topic SG. Having been stationed in SD in the early 90’s, I got to know the city pretty well. It’s similar to SJ in that it is sprawled out, large, and has numerous shopping centers in outlying area’s. SD also has “Los Gatos” type area’s like La Jolla and Coronado. Yet there downtown thrives! Horton Plaza, The Gaslamp, Petco Park (baseball anyone?). Maybe its the waterfront or the lack of jets flying right over the core. DSD also has its share of rough areas around it (Varrio Logan just south of Petco). Maybe the differece is the billions of PRIVATE dollars invested since Petco was completed; who knows. Bottom line is that DSD rocks! DSJ…we are still waiting.
I can remember back in the 40’s and 50’s we all went down town because that was the only shopping there was. Now there is malls and small shopping in the neighborhoods so why should anyone want to go down there to shop when there is nothing to shop for anymore.
It’s very gloomy looking and many homeless sitting on the benches. Parking cost a lot on top of that to when it used to be free.
What would happen if the Fairmont decided to open a high-clientele bar on the roof and charge $350 a table?
They would go out of business.
You have an airport downtown. No sane person wants to be around that nuisance, especially if they are paying money.
Until SJ gets their head out of their butts, and moves the airport, downtown will never amount to anything. No matter how much you try to polish it, it will still be the same.
Santana Row should’ve just been put Downtown.
YO..
How many cops were shining flsahlights in patrons faces in downtown SD?? Until SJpP actually adopts a policy of letting people downtown enjoy themselves, its a tough sell. Who wants to go out and be harassed?
SJ will never get it.
San Jose has always been too desperate regarding downtown revitalization, which has resulted in a long string of poor planning decisions—a novel situation in these parts—NOT! Park Center Plaza, the first attempt, turned its back on downtown through its layout. Ditto for the still unsightly Holiday Inn (or whatever it’s called now) at San Carlos & Almaden. The fountain at the old San Antonio mall was a hideous concrete mess and the mall itself uninspired. What has replaced it isn’t much of an improvement and is no draw, but is at least a little more aesthetically pleasing. Then you have the ill-conceived retail pavilion. A failure from the very start. That was an attempt at the high end version of Horton Plaza and it didn’t achieve what SG is suggesting a high end destination might in downtown SJ.
I’ve said it before, but what is happening in downtown SJ is an attempt to put some “there” back where all of the “there” it had was blown to smithereens in the 60’s and 70’s. It is an attempt to make a huge urban center out of the remnants of what was a small downtown that stopped growing when the population of this town was less than 100K. So basically we have a from-scratch effort that began under Tom’s administration in the mid-80’s. It’s only been 20 years. It’s going to be a long time before downtown amounts to anything.
I strongly disagree with the statement above that says downtown San Diego has no annoying air traffic. The jetliners approach much lower and more directly over downtown SD’s office towers than they do here. Is our airport in a stupid location? Absolutely. Should it have been moved to Alviso or Moffet decades ago? Absolutely. Will that ever happen now? You’ve got to be kidding. We are stuck with it where it is due to lack of regional planning back when the airport was a small enough operation to move.
So SG, when you say that SD is “sheik” are you suggesting that only a sheik could afford any of its attractions? I’m all for getting rid of the thuggery downtown but I don’t think we need to swing the pendulum back nearly as far as you’re suggesting.
>>San Diego is sheik, popular, classy and has an entirely different feel to it. People are dressed up in suits and dresses.
A sheik in a dress? We’ve already got several of those downtown. What are you complaining about?
—gary
SG,
It just hit me: all the troublemakers and thugery in San Diego do their partying in Tijuana. Perhaps if DSJ got rid of all the TJ-like clubs that cater to the young and rowdy, we’d start to see some change in the core.
The obvious reason that San Diego is what it is is that it is the largest city in the area.
San Jose is only one of many cities in a large urban region. It is never going to have an oceanfront and it is never going to be the central hub of the Bay Area. Those people who want to spend $500 per person on dinner are much more likely to go to San Francisco than to San Jose.
San Jose needs to work with what it already has. It has Silicon Valley and it has a remarkable amount of cultural diversity. Neither of these is likely to generate the kind of snobbery SG wants to see. The concept of “I’m spending bags of money for something I could get a lot cheaper elsewhere just to impress people I don’t know” doesn’t really resonate with the San Jose I know.
I think one of the strengths of San Jose is that you can get a nice meal with a wide selection of cultures to choose from for not a lot of money. And when I go to such places I see a lot of techies eating there. These are not the kind of people who are anxious to have to put on a suit to get into a place that would charge them twenty times as much for the same food.
Single Gal and bloggers, downtown San Diego sucks. I was just there. In the evenings, it’s a ghost town. On weekend nights, they have pockets of activities there around Gaslamp and maybe a few on C street-House of Blues. I guess I shouldn’t forget the W hotel bar on B street in SD. What about the blight in the middle of downtown San Diego, particularly on Broadway east of 2nd, and another area of blight on C street, west. There are also fights in the Gaslamp very often and there are thugs there, too. Remember, they don’t have the Tech, riverpark, new city hall and new public library. I guess glass is greener on the other side or maybe all downtowns sucks. Stop being negative or wishful thinking of our downtown! By the way, buy a condo in one of the new empty highrises in downtown San Diego, and I hope you’ll enjoy those empty dark buildings and few neighbors.
“Santana Row should’ve just been put Downtown.” #10, Valley Girl
Valley Girl, I respectfully disagree. Downtown should be moved to Santana Row. A few grand on signage and, voila, we have a thriving upscale Downtown for which the few clamor.
Single Gal,
We’ve poured more than a billion dollars into the downtown area thus far. Why must we continue to try and re-make the area into something that it can never be?
Face it, in the 50’s and 60’s, our politicians and developers planned for sprawl. I doubt whether pouring another billion into downtown will change anything.
I believe that most our of residents prefer dining and entertainment in their own neighborhoods; they don’t give a whit about downtown. Why should the “shame factor” on the part of a few drive us to spend precious tax dollars in Downtown?
#1 summed it up well. Downtown is forever doomed because we are a sprawling city of over 160 square miles. There is rarely a reason why anyone living outside of downtown would take the time, deal with the inconvenience, and step over the less fortunate to visit downtown.
The greed of developers and the council have likely driven the final stake through the heart of downtown. It’s too bad but there is probably little that can be done that will ever provide us with a real and thriving downtown.
i can answer everyone’s questions, and can comment on this entire situation better than anyone prob on this blog. Anyhow i dont have the time right now, maybe later
BOTTOM LINE…
It starts from the TOP, so think about that before you talk. WE NEED SOMEONE WITH A VISION, mayor, a city council, THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT MATTER AND NEED A VISION for things like this, and they dont come often or all the time. People who have Governed San Diego, San Francisco, had VISIONS….and made it happen, yes we are the people and can also make that happen, but until someone at the top can understand this vision, this shit will never ever be done, especially with Tom Mcenery Trying to still advise san jose on every subject, geez…., face it guy, its a new generation, and the people still are not happy in sanjose, listen to everyones complaints, its tremendous… , the condos will not solve shit, although it is a step in the right direction i would have to give you that…:) although, thats prob about of what downtown needed, theres much more, and prob someone like myself would be happy to list out the other 85%….but its shameful if im the only that has these answers….
#17 Greg: Brilliant!
Gerg and Valley Girl,
Santana Row should be called “Little Downtown”.
Valley Girl,
Spring is in the air and I think I’m in love… thanks for the compliment!
#20
Go on a hunger strike and you will get your wish.
#17 Mark,
Why is everyone so surprised, Santana Row was built by professional business people. Downtown San Jose was built by politicians.
Santana Row generates the same amount of Sales tax revenue for the City as downtown San Jose. santana Row didn`t require City money to develop while downtown cost the taxpayers over $3billion to develop.
#23
How much sales tax revenue does Santana Row generate? Do you have a source? How many acres is Santana Row?
Along the same line, how much sales tax does Eastridge generate? Is there a public source for this type of information?
Thanks.
Richard – just a bit of a correction on Santana Row – it was the biggest political lobbying job in the city’s history except for Coyote Valley – They got away w. bullying staff, planning commissioners, minimal traffic improvements, intense development unheard of except for Downtown, and a series of leases that exclude the same use downtown – no one ever voted for Santana Row, beautiful as it is, while downtown has been voted on again and again, culminating in the Arena approval. Next time you are stuck on 280, ask yourself why no significant improvements were required – just ask. TMcE
There are several sources. A good one to begin with is the California State board of Equalazation. attend City Meetings that are open to the public. Mayor Reed has been an advocate of the “Sunshine Laws”, “open Government”.
The City needs to increases it`s revenues to continue to operate at required levels, sales taxes and new jobs is the two best sources.The problem wasn`t caused by Reed`s administration but, they have the opportunity to fix the problem.
John- thanks for getting back to me but, we`ve did it again with BAREC, another high density development that will be adding more traffic to I-280 at the Winchester off ramp, to enter I-280 they will have to go to the i-280 & I-880 on ramp. This area is already a mess and the Marcus-SVLG and friends did a pretty good job of political lobbying.
The opponents collected over 10,000 signatures against the project, then at then Marcus changed from 600 units to 450 units and added a “senior citizens section to help the project go through, then along with the help of pressure from a well known Santa Clara lobbiest, the City Council supported Marcus and friends.A lot of money was spent to push this through. You told me you supported it to.
The only enterance to BAREC is going to be on Winchester Blvd and that portion of BAREC is in “San Jose”. Will you re-consider your position supporting the Marcus Group. Will Myor Reed and our City Council help speed this project through? San Jose has a role in this project`s success.
John, please try to imagine all the high density development that has already been aproved along the I-280 freeway from Winchester Blvd. (BAREC) east to the 7th street exit off I-280 in San Jose. Try to imagine all the high rise development along hwy 87 close to the I-280 hwy 87 interchange.
Last year Jim Beal was turned down by the “State of California” for money to fix the I-280/I-880 interchange.
We need relief on our freeways and now City roadways from all the high rise development and all the north bound “grid locked” traffic going up the pennisula every morning and returning south to San Jose every evening.
Now in the ” Metro” April9-15 issue page 16, the same SVLG says they are going to gear up to start pushing BART from San Jose to the east bay cities. “John” how is this BART system to Alameda County going to help our grid lock on “I-280,Hwy 87,U.S. 101, hwy 85,Hwy 17 and hwy 237 north to Sunnyvale/Mt View towards Google jobs etc.? SVLG again a very strong lobbiest,will be pushing everyone at City Hall to get their way.
John, we need to “FIX” our gridlocked freeways! You want to build more high density high rises downtown but if people can`t get in and out of downtown easily,it will continue to suffer. John, I-280 and hwy 87 play a major role in the success of downtown San Jose. Interstate 280 is the route we use to get to U.S. 101 and drive north to those good paying jobs north of San Jose.
You used to complain about lobbiest when you were Mayor. It`s time our City officials start doing the “right thing”. It`s time VTA got a wake up call and put together a comprehensive traffic relief project for Santa Clara County. Put san Jose/Santa Clara County first, solve our local trtaffic problems.
I believe there are a lot of people in this city that want traffic gridlock fixed.
I`d like a response from you on this subject, I believe a lot of residents would like to hear from you on this subject.
Tom,
Please respond to my question on #27. Do we need a comprehensive transportation system in Santa Clara County to solve our grid lock problems on our freeway`s and roadways? Do you believe San Jose`s building BART system from San Jose to the east bay cities will solve our serious traffic problems? What should come first, (1) a solution for our County wide grid lock problems or BART ?
Richard,
Gridlock is good. If commuters hang downtown, have a few beers and a bite at San Pedro Square while the freeways open up, it’s good for downtown. Right?
Soon as we get a few more jobs down here and the wait for a drink is too long, then we can work on those traffic issues.
Ralph Kramden knows this. Or is that Noooorrrrm. I always get those guys mixed up.
Single Gal,
Are you suggesting that San Jose float a bond issue to move Downtown to San Martine and build another Santa Row between First and Third? Great idea. Talk to VTA; they know some great developer groups that would love a project like that. All I ask is that I get the prime bus route to San Martine and lots of OT. Ralph