Will San Jose ever get a professional baseball team or are we holding onto a pipe dream? I would love nothing more than the Oakland A’s to call San Jose their home, but honestly, we need to talk about the fact that this probably will never happen in this city. Why do I bring this up now? Because a few of my friends, who are strongly leaning towards voting for Michael Mulcahy in the mayor’s race, said that the things that were “important to them are important to Mulcahy.” Amongst other things, this means they want a baseball team in San Jose (join the club) and they think Mulcahy is the man to get the deal done.
So are other San Joseans voting for Mulcahy or any other candidate based on this or is this a small minority of my sports-rabid friends? If this is still a prevailing opinion that the next mayor could lure the A’s here, then maybe Lew Wolff should explain the simple fact that he is building a stadium in the East Bay, not in San Jose. Maybe Lew Wolff should stand in front of City Hall and shout, “It’s never gonna happen people! Move on!” There are strong reports that he has already said that privately to City Hall anyway. So Mulcahy, even if he had the Pope and the Dali Lama working with him, doesn’t stand a chance of bringing baseball to San Jose.
Why don’t we focus on things that a new mayor CAN do. What about an NBA team? This is something that could feasibly happen if they make some small changes to the already existing (in other words, already paid for) Shark Tank. The Seattle Supersonics are still a possibility but we would need a strong future mayor who isn’t afraid to be a little unpopular to get a sports deal done.
I am not going as far to say that voters should base their vote for mayor on who can get a sports team, but it is important to have confidence in a mayor that could get a smart sports deal done that works out to the benefit of taxpayers. It is important to have a mayor that can seek out those opportunities and not botch them (see: Susan Hammer and Giants in Milpitas). It is also important that the next mayor recognizes that sports teams, though not the highest priority for all voters, bring people to businesses and most notably, bring pride to the city (See: The San Jose Sharks. Yea!)
Now, maybe this is Mulcahy, but maybe it’s not. Maybe it’s actually Pandori who did work with Tom McEnery to get the Arena here in San Jose, or maybe it’s Cortese, who was a member of Baseball San Jose. But that’s not quite the point. The point is that we need to widen our perspective when it comes to voting for a mayor from just who can get baseball, to focusing on a mayor that can simply, get good, smart things done. And the debate still rages on: who can be that person when they are in office?
The dream of a baseball team in SJ is just that, a dream. Those who would vote for Mulcahy based on this dream show an unfortunate lack of vision for the quality of life of the rest of the city. The arguments have been raised over and over on this site—you don’t spend money you don’t have when you can’t even take care of what you’ve got. Not to mention that there is virtually no chance that SJ will get a major league baseball team. Sports teams have their place and certainly can bring some benefit to a city, but they are no magic bullet—do you want to be like Detroit??
Those of you who would vote for Mulcahy based on his Quixotic attempt to bring a mythical baseball team to play here in a non-existent stadium should look at the really important issues facing our city. Mulcahy may be a nice guy but simply does not have the depth of experience or knowledge of municipal government to be elected mayor—baseball team or no baseball team.
Please widen your view of what we need in SJ—it’s a whole lot more than a baseball team.
Sounds to me like Lew just said publically it’s not going to happen in San Jose in Sunday’s Merc:
…he won’t “tilt at windmills”’ and fight the Giants’ claim.
Sounds like he wants to build in Fremont and call the team the San Jose A’s:
The team’s name if it moved to Fremont. (The Fremont A’s is not an option.) There would be considerable value in incorporating “San Jose’’ into the name…
With such comments, can our leaders pursuing a ballpark in San Jose show any sign there is a small chance of success of luring the A’s to San Jose? How about one comment from Lew that there is a possibility?
Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/14355934.htm
Unless we get somebody who has the power to get things done, like BART, the A’s will stop in Fremont.
Hey, Single Gal, a whole column on bringing professional sports teams to San Jose, and no mention of the 2-time champion San Jose Earthquakes soccer team which we recently lost but still can bring back with visionary public leadership? Where have you been?
Lew Wolff denies he’ll move his baseball team here but says he wants to bring a soccer team back to San Jose. Don’t believe me? Check out http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com.
Soccer is far-and-away the world’s favorite sport, and every world-class city, save perhaps San Francisco, has its own major professional team—London has 6; Buenos Aires has 4; NY has one; so does Chicago and LA. SF may make do, but San Jose will certainly never be world class without one.
The Quakes drew over 13,000 per game here in antiquated stadium, despite an owner threatening to move the team, despite losing its marquee star, and with next to no marketing budget, next to no coverage in the Mercury News, and next to no hype from folks like you. Still more people attended Quakes games on average than SJSU football games in the same stadium and (if you discount for corporate box and group tickets), more people likely attended Quakes games on average than Sharks games. There is broad grass-roots support for soccer in this community—more than ten times the number of people attended the soccer rally in Cesar Chavez Park in 2004 than the Baseball San Jose rally a few weeks earlier. Soccer, as the world’s game, appeals to all segments of the broad ethnic and cultural mix of our communities, from Latin American and Asian immigrants to white soccer moms in Almaden Valley. And pro soccer is not just the Earthquakes, it’s women’s teams, it’s traveling international club teams and national teams, plus World Cup qualifiers—and the opportunity to host the World Cup itself, the biggest sporting event on Earth (yeah, believe it or not it’s a bigger deal than the Olympics).
What’s more, an investment in professional soccer will be far less, probably one-tenth, that of baseball. San Jose will never supplant places like St. Louis or the Bronx as baseball burgs, but San Jose does have the real honest-to-god potential, with minimal public investment, to be the mecca for professional soccer (and, with a further investment in recreational fields, say, at the fairgrounds, amateur soccer) in all of North America.
The civic leaders in First Act San Jose recognize soccer as an integral component of their larger vision for revitalizing downtown San Jose. The fact that you as a “San Jose insider” apparently don’t even begin to recognize the potential economic and cultural benefits of bringing back professional soccer is simply mind-boggling.
Think Soccer.
Dear San Jose:
To lead is to choose. Those of us who think that our city is in decline and want to work to restore it, and make it better for the next generation, understand that the source of many of San Jose’s problems stem from our civic leaders’ unwillingness or inability to discern the difference between civic wants and civic needs. Basic city services (ie park maintenence, the staffing of libraries, and filling potholes) are not being properly funded.
Consider: How is it, that the most basic needs of a city are not fully met in one of the wealthiest areas on the planet! Such a reality suggests that the system is corrupt, or that the system has been corrupted. (There’s plenty of money to do the job, it’s just not being spent on the job!)
San Jose needs leadership, a more dedicated press, and more citizens to involve themselves with their self governance.
Pete Campbell
Mulcahy, Pandori, Chavez, whomever, this city needs somebody to breath some life into it. With the exception of the Sharks, there is absolutely nothing in SJ for it’s residents to rally around. Baseball would be a good catalyst to get our downtown going, but I realize it’s probably never going to happen. Our downtown is lifeless, our business climate is mediocre, our politics are whacked. The real estate market is out of reach for many and it’s damn near impossible for young people just starting out to even afford a starter house in a decent neighborhood. Why live in SJ when you most likely need to commute to other Bay Area cities for your job. We are going to start seeing less and less 20 and 30 something families setting up roots here. Why should they pay an obscene amount of money for a small dated fixer upper in a mediocre neighborhood where they have to pay for public schools because most of our schools suck. You need to make some serious cash if you want to get a decent house an in the so called desirable neighborhoods like the Rose Garden, Willow Glen or Alamden. We need to start giving people a good reason to keep live here and give companies a good reason to start doing business here. Nobody wants to live or work in a dead town and that is what we have here. I had some colleagues in town last week and they were staying downtown at the Marriott and left very unimpressed. I took them out to the restaurant Seven and it was 2/3 empty for an 7:30 reservation on a Wednesday night. Seven is a good restaurant and should be happening. Any other top restaurant in a “big city” would be bustling on most weekday nights. People would be entertaining clients, friends would be having dinner, couples would be on dates. Not here, restaurants around town are dead and there is no energy. Don’t even get me started on the weekends downtown with the damn cruisers and bars filled with an undesirable element. I find myself constantly defending SJ to friends and colleagues who live in other cities. Lately, I have been asking myself why the hell I still live here. I was born and raised here and have family and friends here. This place doesn’t have to suck, but currently it does. We need a Mayor who is going to inject some hope and some life into this city. I’m not sure if that guy is Pandori or Mulcahy, but that’s who I’m deciding between.
I don’t support public funding of sports stadiums. Sports franchises are private companies, let them succeed or fail based on marked conditions. San Jose has many serious problems and the lack of a professional baseball team isn’t one of them.
Gal, oh how naive you must be. If the A’s are to end up in San Jose, first, all avenues in Oakland must be exhausted, which has been done. Next, the need to make a choice must be provided to either the collective baseball owners or to the Giants, since they have territorial rights to the South Bay. With the Fremont deal, that choice is ready to be made.
Where do you think the baseball owners see more potential, downtown SJ or a field near the freeway in Fremont? It’s not unprecedented that they would vote to allow the move to SJ. It just happened with the Expos moving into the Orioles’ territory in DC.
If you’re the Giants, you have 2 choices: 1) watch the A’s move to Fremont, essentially into the SJ market, with no compensation, or 2) make a deal that allows them to move to SJ and make millions in the process. You can take Mr. Wolff’s comments at face value if you like, but please don’t expect the rest of us to believe he isn’t pursuing the most lucrative location.
As for you, “Inside the Hall”, you’re probably one of the geniuses that voted against bringing the Giants to San Jose in the 80’s and against building the Shark Tank. Taking the initiative to add world-class elements to SJ drives the economy, increases the tax base and allows us to pay for the necessities. Thankfully, shortsighted individuals such as yourself aren’t running our city, but are just running around in the halls under the mayor’s office.
#3 Did you mean the depth and knowledge of the council members in the race? The ones who are lending their expertise to the Municipal government that has become a travesty. Mulcahy”s platform is not baseball.
It is to restore the prosperity by bringing leadership, a dynamic personality and an understanding of how organizations need to work and function. Dont underestimate his abilities. San Jose needs to build its revenue stream in order to ensure a quality life for its residents.
#5
It is hard to chose between the current crop of candidates for mayor, and I hate being a one-issue voter, but in this case it is necessary.
No on Prop A, no to BART to San Jose, and no to any supporter of either. Let’s stop this asinine idea in its tracks.
Good comments by all, particularly #7 and #8.
We need to demand any sports team that wants to
come to San Jose to open their books first before any thought is given to public subsidies of any new facilities they wish to have. This way we know what their spending priorities truly are once they move in.
You know the spending priorities of San Jose are out of line when City Council gives $4 million of your tax dollars to the Grand Prix and not to senior centers that need the money to stay open. You know the spending priorities in the county are out of line when the Supes talk about a concert hall at the fairgrounds instead of affordable housing and child care.
Many people have forgotten that San Jose already has a professional baseball team (albeit minor league). They are known as the San Jose Giants…
http://www.sjgiants.com/
Clearly, new leadership at local and county level is needed to set better spending priorities by placing civic needs first before civic wants and personal “pet projects”. Public openness, fiscal responsibility, and accountability must be made mandatory to hold any elected office.
We the People in San Jose and the Valley need to take better responsibility for where we live. Too often I see more people concerned about the quality of their home equity instead of the quality of their own lives. Often I ask that if someone like me from Santa Cruz – who has a job and a family to care for – can come all the way to San Jose for mayoral candidate forums and debates on Valley sales tax measures, what is your excuse in not getting involved? The same people then complain about how expensive it is to live here and how “untouchable” our elected officials are. That mindset needs to change in a hurry if San Jose does not wish itself to continue to be seen as a suburb of San Francisco.
On a personal note, I will boycott the SJ Grand Prix race just like I did last year. As a lifelong world motorsports fan, I will take my racing needs to Laguna Seca in Monterey – a city whose sales tax is 7.75%. Even if the Grand Prix race is for “cancer research”, I refuse to spend money in a city that underhandedly used our tax dollars to subsidize car racing instead of preserving the availability of senior centers. As a Sharks fan, I am debating on not attending Sharks playoff games at the Tank for the same reasons.
In the end, before we approve another sales tax or bond measure for San Jose, we need to make our elected officials more accountable for our tax dollars. Before we beg for another major sports team to come here – we need to make sure our quality of life in San Jose and the Valley is in order.
As we discuss whether or not bringing a mythical baseball team to San Jose will make it a world class city—let’s pause for a moment to reflect on what doesn’t make a world class city. Once again (see today’s Merc) the brain trust of the city brings in the wrecking ball to destroy yet another historic building. A city that is ashamed of its past has a dismal future to look forward to.
10—Thanks for the genius title. As a baseball fan, I would have liked to have seen the Giants locate in SJ. The catch, of course, was the public would have to pay for it. If the city had crafted a plan that involved private financing I doubt we’d be going to SF to watch the Giants today. The short sightedness was in our elected officials, not the public who was smart enough not to give away the store just to het a ball team.
You seem to have no problem giving away other people’s money—I believe we pay enough taxes already and still don’t receive the level of services a “world class” city should deliver.
Apparently you are pleased with the level of those running the city today—I am not. I believe you are the short sighted one whose only vision to bring relief to our civic woes is a baseball team. And you think I’m a genius.
1). The SJ Giants wouldn’t mind being displaced by a MLB team. Under the terms of the agreement btwn MLB and the National Association of Baseball (the governing body for minor league baseball) when a MLB team supplants a minor league team in a market, the minor league gets a fat check to leave town. The SJ Giants would get around $2 million buck to leave Santa Clara County. Can you say “Hello Chico?”
2). Re: MLS soccer. Yuck. MLS is not “Major League” by any stretch of the imagination. That’s why knowledgable soccer fans avoid it the like the plague. Simply put – the MLS is to world class soccer, as AAA baseball is to the major leagues. Only problem is that MLS prices itself like it was a major league sport.
$50. bucks to sit midfield at Spartan Stadium to watch the ‘Quakes – give me a break!!!!
3). Single Gal – sports teams DO NOT generate new revenue streams – they merely rearrange existing spending. Example: Restaurants near the arena make money when the Sharks play a home game, right? If you’re a Sharks fan from Almaden you are spending your Saturday night entertainment dollar at the HP Pavilion rather than at a local pizza parlor or some other nearby venue in your neighborhood. All your doing is rearranging your discretionary spending – not necessarily increasing it. That’s why the so-called tax revenues generated by sports franchises are pyhrric dollars – overall tax revenues remain the same because of the effect I mentioned. However, public dollar expenditures increase to maintain the facilities built to house the sports teams – most of whom pay very low rents that fail to cover the debt service or the ongoing maintenance of the publically funded facility – once again the taxpayer takes the big one right up the “poop shoot.”
Mark –
Dude… Poop Shoot is not the proper terminology.
San Jose or Fremont? It doesn’t matter. As the Giants have proven, private money can and should finance a new ballpark wherever it is built!
The city has more to worry about than whether or not the A’s come to town.
15- As I recall, the proposal was for a 2% utility tax to build a Giants stadium – literally just a few dollars per year, per household. Now Mark #16 would tell you a Giants stadium in downtown SJ would not have added any incremental dollars. Go tell that to SF and all the businesses and residential developments around the Giants stadium. If you think people aren’t driving from miles around to drop cash in that neighborhood, I’ve got a garbage contract I want you to sign.
I guess you believe all of our museums, parks, etc. should be privately financed too?? Non-sports fans are always the first to pop off against municipalities helping to finance sports facilities. You never hear sports fans moaning about the city supporting the arts or museums. All these things are for the public and are critical elements in world-class cities. The next mayor will, hopefully, be leading San Jose toward being such a city, while doing the blocking and tackling expected. Ms. Chavez seems to be running on a platform of doing that blocking and tackling. We need more vision than she provides. You have the small-city mentality.
If you want to be able to sit back and only think about fixin’ potholes and maintaining the status quo, maybe you should move to Gilroy or one of the other fine towns in our area. SJ is going big time, so get on board or get out of the way.
#16, Mark: You’re wrong about Major League Soccer (MLS) supposedly not being major league. It’s undeniably the top league in the U.S., and is thus “major league” by definition. It may not (yet) be the best league in the world, but it is a top flight league nonetheless, and getting better every year. Eurosnob soccer fans (who only have eyes for the English Premier League or Italy’s Series A) may be too snooty for it, just like foreigners have discounted the American national team at the 2002 World Cup, and just like local Portuguese fans were shocked when the Quakes beat the powerful Sporting Club of Lisbon, 4-1, back in 2004 at Spartan Stadium. But those snooty fans are fewer and further between. Ronaldo, the world’s best soccer player (a far bigger name internationally than Barry Bonds, and without the steroids) has recently expressed interest in playing in MLS; so has David Beckham, the British player with a rock-star-like following all over the world.
But you don’t have to believe me about MLS to share my vision for a soccer (i.e., football) stadium. If we build a stadium in downtown San Jose, you’ll be able to see teams like Manchester United (a team with international prestige a thousand times greater than the NY Yankees) play here as part of a barnstorming tour—against our San Jose boys. We’ll see who wins and by how much.
You’re also wrong about MLS guoging fans like other major league sports. Until the Quakes left town last December, I had season tickets right on the midfield line, 4th row, where I could see the white’s of the players’ eyes, and I paid $12 bucks each for them; you would pay seven-fold for an equivalent quality ticket to the Sharks. MLS soccer is far-and-away the best bargain in pro sports.
Ah, Al the Genius has spoken. Quite a leap of logic from a discussion about a publically financed ball park to museums, parks, etc. How many museums, parks, etc. are the personal business of wealthy owners whose bottom line is to make money for themselves and their investors. To compare the two to somehow justify your argument that the public should foot the bill so these guys can make more money shows the weakness of your argument if that is the best you can come up with.
You say “SJ is going big time,”—don’t know what that means but if it means forsaking basic city services to pay a private business enterprise to come to town and suck our services dry then we don’t need big time.
Let me know when you come up with a better argument.
So now we all want to start badgering the single gal , typical bunch of crybabies ,she voices her opinion and all you guys start giving her a bad time , and thats why this city is in trouble ,TO MUCH TALK AND NO ACTION, GET OFF YOUR ASS AND START SOME ACTION
BART , WHO’S IDEA WAS THAT What the hell are you thinking about you bring bart here and the first trainload of undesirables into san jose so they can take your cars back to where they came from ,all your doing is giving all the bad elemants a cheap and easy way to get here and create more problems. ron wake up ,your beyond help, when this city had orchards at least eveyone had a job !!!
Wow, someone sticking up for Single Gal – do we have a gentleman in our presence?
#20 Hall Dweller,
The fact that you cannot see the value in having a major professional sports franchise in San Jose precludes you from understanding the reasons to support the effort.
Hotels and real estate developments are also “personal businesses of wealthy owners whose bottom line is to make money”. They’ve received subsidies and have been critical to downtown’s progress. A baseball stadium and team would add another crown jewel. Please give us a sound answer to the following question. Why do you suppose the city of San Francisco has $100 million sitting ready for a new 49ers stadium?? Is it because they’ve perfected all city services and have nothing else to spend money on?
San Jose has been groveling and thinking-small for way too long. I’m sick of the 415 and the 650 looking down their noses at us. We need a mayor with the ability to sell San Jose, someone that can bring major league baseball, as well as major retailers, to downtown. Despite Single Gal’s opinion, these are excellent criteria to consider when voting. We don’t need a city council member to take the wheel from Ron and keep us at the same level. My new city slogan is “get on board, or get outta the way”.
Dweller, King City is a nice little town that doesn’t have to worry about “forsaking basic services” in trying to attract world-class elements. Look into it.
Tom McEnery is the only one to save this city, but why should he have to clean up the mess that a dummy created, we need a new statue in rons favor in front of the new city hall sitting on a horse backwards hiding behind a garbage truck
Should this new mayor bring a new sports team to the center core of the city? If it was basketball then obviously the HP Pavillion is the best choice. What if something had to be built. Where should it be? Is the fairgrounds too far out of the core? There’s a new big 52 acre shopping mall going in now at So. 1st and Tully (Curtner). Which of the candidates for mayor really wants to deal for a sports team? If they are interested then they should stand up and be recognized.
#18: I don’t see the city, in the last eight or so years, do squat to help local arts and recreation groups, except for maybe the Fox California that had been underway for Opera San Jose prior to the present leadership (sic). However, it seems that partnering with non-profits is a whole lot different than partnering with entrepreneurs if my tax dollars are to be offered up, as nicely said by Mr. Gagliardi.
If those who reads this blog has or wishes to take a serious look at the draft EIR for the stadium site, you should read between the lines to discover that a whole lot of public money is going to be offered up to whoever is supposed to build this stadium in the downtown. The stadium will only have about 1600 parking spaces for “VIPs”, which means the rest of the parking will be figured out and paid for “later”. Autumn Street will need to be reconfigured, taking out the residential neighborhood to the northeast of the arena, another good $30 million plus. The interchange will have to be redone at Interstate 280 and Bird Avenue. The expected plan would also probably turn over development rights of the area between Diridon Station and Los Gatos Creek up to East Santa Clara Street to our candidate stadium user, another public give-way of public assets.
By the way, if Mulcahy’s family owns an interest in the “A’s”, someone please explain to me – how there is no financial conflict of interest in his advocacy in bringing them to San Jose as a wantabe Mayor? I guess relatives don’t count – maybe. Or maybe they do plan to do a lot of counting – of their money.
Mulcahy’s family owns a lot more then you think they do , but i wont go there , instead of ruining coyote valley with a bunch of ugly KB homes build your stadium there and leave the rest for open space DUH , now how come none of you big shots have’nt thought of that
Now why do we want to jam a stadium in downtown san jose is beyond me , no room ,no where to park ,to much traffic , Why not build the stadium in coyote valley instead of cutting K B homes or some other cracker jack shack builder loose there. now you cant tell me its not feasible and there’s plenty of room for parking and leave the rest for open space , now get busy
Good comments by #8 and #14. I have been downtown around 7:30 on a mid-week night and found the same ghost town as MI & his friends did, and have found the same low-life gridlock on a weekend night. Low-lifes generally have no conviction (likely quite the opposite if using the plural) and can be easily discouraged, but the ghost town problem is a tougher one to solve.
#18, thanks for pointing out to #16 that a baseball team will draw people to SJ that don’t already live here. Duh. But I do agree with #16’s point of view on soccer. Just like the metric system, it may be a happenin’ thing on the rest of the planet, but not in the USA and not any time soon.
#14, your closing comment nicely sizes up why the city of SJ is in such a sad state. It’s time to scour out all of the backward, small time, small town mentalities that are running things at CH and especially in the Council chambers.
Hey 23 & 25 your right ……….
Nice idea Mr. Sturges, but why don’t we also consider expanding Municipal Stadium, using the existing seating as bleachers for a larger stadium to the southwest. Share parking with Spartan Stadium with lots of parking expansion potential in the area on Mulcahy family land (or maybe a parking garage over the City Corp yard). Use traffic mitigation money that would be needed anyway in a downtown stadium to direct-connect Senter Road to Interstate 280 and ditch the 10th and 11th Street couplets south of 280 so we can try and revive those neighborhoods? Then loop light-rail into District 7 down Senter Road.
In response to #31, Mark T: You say that soccer may be happening on the rest of the planet, but not in the U.S. and not anytime soon.
Maybe it’s about time the U.S. started getting in step with the rest of the planet, and maybe we already are and you just haven’t noticed. Globalization, by definition, is pushing us in that direction. San Jose, and its driving industries, are no longer in competition with SF or other American metropolises but with other communities across the globe. The evidence is available in plain view.
I also think you seriously underestimate the inroads that soccer has made in this country in the last 10-15 years. Soccer is the game of choice for most of our American youth of all ethnic backgrounds. The kids are voting with their feet, literally.
It’s also a viewing choice as well—or haven’t you channel-surfed Hispanic TV lately? There are 3 or 4 soccer games on TV at any given hour. International soccer matches in the Bay Area draw huge crowds—one example: more than 38,000 in SBC Park in February for US v. Japan, including thousands of Japanese tourists who came specifically for the game, and many folks from our own San Jose Japantown. I saw the director of Yu Ai Kai there, for instance. Quite a few gringos like me were there, too. (What? You didn’t read about it in the Merc? Guess that mean’s it didn’t happen.)
It just floors me that folks get on this board and talk about needing a “vision” for San Jose as a great city, and so few, apparently, can see the obvious, that a vision for San Jose as a world-class city needs to include the world’s game, which is soccer. The beauty of the vision, as I’ve said, is that it’s so relatively inexpensive and promises such fabulously lucrative rewards.
Just because you don’t “get it” doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Don, I’m back in my chair after ROFLMAO!
You just confirmed my previous statement by telling me I need to surf Hispanic TV stations for soccer! Do you really think you’re going to see a regularly scheduled NBC Game of the Week type thing for soccer in your lifetime?
I can’t add any commentary as that was really one absolutely priceless query!
I am not a soccer fan so forgive me not being up on this subject but Why was Spartan Stadium not a good enough venue for the Earthquakes? I am not sure if MLS justifies building a whole new stadium just for soccer. I know that it is huge sport with the masses but does that translate into a big revenue generator and economy driver? Why were the Earthquakes allowed to leave? Did the city botch that up too?
#30
Regarding using the fairgrounds for a soccer stadium, a much better choice is to close the Reid-Hillview airport in East San Jose, and use the land in a more productive manner that benefits all county residents. RHV sits on 180 acres at the intersection of 101 and 280/680. This is the gateway to the Bay area. It is easily accessible from all points north, south, east, and west. Light rail will be extended down Capital Expressway making this the premier site for activities that require transportation access.
Used as an airport RHV benefits approximately one-tenth of one percent of Santa Clara county residents. Since it is located in the middle of a residential neighborhood it is an economic, social, and environmental disaster for East San Jose. The time has come to close RHV. The only question is to how best use the land.
Instead of Coyote Valley for a sports stadium, why not the fairgrounds? There’s enough room and parking there for all the sports we need in San Jose. The place is bankrupt, the concert hall is a terrible idea. During the sports off season, these arenas could be used for all kinds of shows and concerts. The property is there, it is big enough and except for a trinket show they call the County Fair it is really underused. There are bus lines to the area and freeway access within two miles. Light rail has a connection at the Curtner Station for bus service. There will be a 52 acre shopping mall within two blocks at Tully (Curtner) and So. 1st Street.
I hear so much about “Build it and they will come”. The new City Hall,it will bring $ to the downtown. Does anybody know how much it brought to its old location? How much has it lost since it left? The same goes for Spartin Stadium and the rest of S.J. since the Earth Quakes left.How well do we as a community support S.J.S.U.‘s atheletics?S.J. suffers from a lack of self respect. What can we do to first identify S.J.‘s identity .Next build on that culture,and make all citizens feel a part of it.Sports team are a small part of how we can make S.J. a destination point, respected by other great citys. But what else can we do?
Mark T: An interesting thing about NBC games-of-the-week telecasts. Back in the 1970s, they used to do the NHL game-of-the-week on NBC, but then they stopped for two decades or more because they decided that hockey was too foreign, and although folks in the Great White North liked to play it, it wasn’t really ever gonna catch on here in the lower 48. Only very recently has American network television returned to broadcast the infrequent NHL game (and, yet, within the last year, even on cable, hockey has been banished from ESPN to the Outdoor Network—I kid not). My point: pro hockey is—still—simply NOT major league according to your provincial calculus. Nonetheless, San Jose, which couldn’t tell a puck from a peppermint patty in the 1980s, is now ga ga for it and, by all accounts, Sharks hockey is crucial to the economic vitality of our downtown.
Soccer has a big head start on hockey in the local demographic mix. And the future of network TV is hardly assured in the New World Order, anyway. Care to place a wager on whether Major League Soccer (MLS) outlasts the National Broadcasting Corporation (NBC)?
Hey #22 alias NJD2 you sound like a very desirable guy…
24 – Great slogan. Meaningless, but great just the same. I’ve noticed the great progress SF has made in getting a new 49ers stadium—and they actually have a team to play there unlike San Jose.
You feel free to go your way and ignore reality, the rest of us will continue to try and make San Jose a better place to live without breaking the bank on public subsidies for private businesses.
HID I HEAR REID HILLVIEW AIRPORT ,THATWOULD BE A PERFECT PLACE FOR RECORD CAR THEFTS AT A SOCCER GAME , if this city had any brains ,just the slightest bit they would first get rid of this gang infection crap , when was the last time you poked your nose into eastridge after dark , sure got quiet , well you go eastridge at about 8 or 9 pm on a friday night or better yet buy a scanner and listen to what goes on in this city , inform yourself and then you will see what im talking about
It’s really hard to comment on the topic of sports venues – or facilities of civic pride for arts, theatre and culture.
Most people in San Jose can’t grasp the idea of big, revolutionary projects. It comes across to me – on this blog – that if the project isn’t about your special interest than it isn’t valuable to the community. God forbid spending any public money or taking a risk. Sports is an easy target – but the Sharks were a good thing without question.
I swear the people of San Jose don’t think our government can do more than fix our potholes – that’s probably why the Business Journal reports that “Neighborhood Services” is the #1 issue for SJ voters (or something to that effect, I didn’t fact check).
Isn’t the challenge for our leaders to have a City Hall that is able to provide the basic services, balance the budget and at the same time push an economic and “cultural” agenda?
The continued irony for the City of San Jose: we are supposed to be Silicon Valley, you know, innovative.
For the person who asked – it is very likely that the Earthquakes had a bad deal at Spartan Stadium – enough to ask for a new facility. There is a plan developed or being developed for the properties around Muni/Logitech and Spartan Stadium. I am sure one of the neighborhood associations or Cindy’s office could comment on that one.
My rant for the day…
In response to #36, SJ Downtowner: Spartan Stadium was not good enough for the former Quakes ownership group, and won’t be good enough for Lew Wolff or any new group, because it is antiquated and, as another poster mentioned, control of revenue sources like parking and concessions wasn’t sufficiently available from Spartan Shops so as to enable the club to be profitable in that venue. Notably, even SJSU football, the primary tenant for Spartan Stadium, finds the facility outdated for its needs—and the football program realistically cannot be revived without a new stadium.
I believe bringing back the Quakes downtown will be a big economic driver in the same way the Sharks have been. As I’ve mentioned, it’s not just the Quakes, but SJSU football, the Silicon Valley Football Classic, and a bevy of international and women’s soccer events that the stadium could play host to. Together with recreational fields elsewhere (the Fairgrounds?), the city could host numerous youth tournaments as well, like other American cities already do. Imagine hundreds of soccer moms and their kids from around the U.S. on a regular basis packing our downtown hotels, watching their kids’ games at the Fairgrounds and then going en masse to the Quakes game on Saturday night. It’s a model already being employed in suburban Dallas and would work so much better in urban San Jose.
Did the City of San Jose botch the loss of the Quakes? Absolutely. I don’t want to name names because I have to work with these folks in the future, but the loss of the Quakes happened on this city council’s watch and they collectively and individually, starting at the top, bear a lion’s share of the responsibility for the loss of the Quakes. There’s a certain symmetry in the fact that the mayor was censured the same day we lost the Quakes, and to hear the Sharks tell it, the two events were related.
Close Reid-Hillview!! and replace it with what? Talk about a brainless idea! Everytime the closure of RHV has been proposed proponents say “the general aviation crowd can move to Palo Alto, San Martin or Hollister” Of course the people in those locales have their own ideas about that and anyone who has followed this story over the years knows that proposal is a non-starter for a number of reasons:
1). Local residents in those areas DO NOT want an intensification of air traffic at their local airports
2). Those airports (esp. Paly and South County) are already at maximum capacity for number of flights and airplane storage and parking
3). No one seems to be able to come up with a large parcel of land in Santa Clara County for a new GA (general aviation) airport that does not interfere with the flight patterns of SJ Municipal er Mineta International.
4). And don’t even think of suggesting that all GA traffic from RHV move to the big airport. SJC is moving towards getting rid of GA air traffic from Mineta and they eventually want to restrict the big airport to the exclusive use of passenger planes and cargo carriers.
Here’s a better idea – howabout we bulldoze Eastridge and half the crappy crime-ridden neighborhoods in its vicinty and expand RHV to handle SJC’s GA traffic and all future GA needs in Santa Clara County?
After all, GA airports don’t require expensive social services, they don’t foster gang populations and they don’t commit home invasion robberies or drive-by shootings.
Seems like a good idea to me.
http://www.sjredevelopment.com/ballpark.htm
I think this plan is absolutely fabulous!
Is there any evidence that cities with subsidized sports stadiums have better growth than cities without?
Ideally this would be a comparison of economic growth rates before and after the stadium subsidy, but I’ll take what I can get.
Although a soccer stadium at RHV would not be my first choice, it certainly would be a better use of the 180 acres than the current general aviation (GA) airport.
Personally, I would like to see the land used as a high-tech campus, and an aviation themed park, with a state of the art interactive aviation museum, designed to attract and inspire children and adults from around the Bay, and country.
I would like to take a moment and respond to post number 42 by “Mark”
Close Reid-Hillview!! and replace it with what?
There are any number of replacement scenarios that will be much better for East San Jose, San Jose, and Santa Clara county.
What would be ideal is to have a fair, unbiased study that honestly looks at the economic and social contribution of RHV, determine who benefits, and who loses, by the existence of RHV, and evaluates alternatives to RHV.
Talk about a brainless idea! Everytime the closure of RHV has been proposed proponents say “the general aviation crowd can move to Palo Alto, San Martin or Hollister” Of course the people in those locales have their own ideas about that …
1). Local residents in those areas DO NOT want an intensification of air traffic at their local airports
This implies that most of society considers general aviation to be primarily a recreational activity that only benefits a small percentage of the population. While there is nothing wrong per se with recreational activities, few people want their lives and neighborhoods ruined simply so that a few people can play.
2). Those airports (esp. Paly and South County) are already at maximum capacity for number of flights and airplane storage and parking
South County has plenty of room to expand.
“The Airport was originally envisioned as a dual-runway facility with capacity to base 550 aircraft,…”
“The airport currently has 90 based aircraft…”
“Among the three County airports, South County Airport is the only one without severe physical constraints on its future development.”
http://www.countyairports.org/documents.htm#MasterPlanE16
Of course, Hollister, Fresno, and other airports also have plenty of room for GA aircraft.
3). No one seems to be able to come up with a large parcel of land in Santa Clara County for a new GA … airport that does not interfere with the flight patterns of SJ Municipal er Mineta International.
It is not the responsibility of Santa Clara county taxpayers to provide airport facilities for private aircraft owners.
4). And don’t even think of suggesting that all GA traffic from RHV move to the big airport. SJC is moving towards getting rid of GA air traffic from Mineta and they eventually want to restrict the big airport to the exclusive use of passenger planes and cargo carriers.
If GA is important to Santa Clara county then Moffet Field should be opened to GA. Moffett is the ideal location for GA activity. It is surrounded by the Bay, a golf course, and industrial land.
Here’s a better idea – howabout we bulldoze Eastridge and half the crappy crime-ridden neighborhoods in its vicinty and expand RHV to handle SJC’s GA traffic and all future GA needs in Santa Clara County?
Eastridge Mall probably contributes millions of dollars a year in local tax revenue. Since there are easily thousands of homes within one-half mile of RHV the cumulative property tax contributions is also in the millions of dollars.
What is Reid-Hillview’s tax contribution to society? Current data provided to the county Supervisors shows that RHV, on 180 acres of land, contributes around $300,000 a year in local tax revenue.
http://www.reidhillview.com/#1
After all, GA airports don’t require expensive social services, they don’t foster gang populations and they don’t commit home invasion robberies or drive-by shootings. Seems like a good idea to me.
Actually, GA is one of the most heavily federally subsidized “transportation” activities around.
According to the DOT:
“The federal government provided more subsidies to the general aviation system
per thousand passenger-miles than for commercial aviation for the entire period
1990-2002 (Figure 6).”
“Some forms of transportation, such as general aviation and boating, are heavily used for recreational purposes, where the objective is to enjoy the transportation activity and then return to the starting point.”
(emphasis mine) http://trb.org/news/blurb_detail.asp?id=4574
No matter how you look at the data, it is apparent that any Reid-Hillview benefits are on a micro scale that only affect a very small percentage of Santa Clara county’s population.
However, the economic, social, and environmental damage caused by RHV occurs on a macro scale, and negatively affects, to some degree, all of Santa Clara county.
See http://www.reidhillview.com/ for the facts regrarding RHV.
I happen to think that Spartan Stadium is a great place to watch a football game and I don’t think that a new stadium would do much to revive football at SJSU but that is another topic…
I am all for increasing the sports teams in SJ for civic pride, diversity of things to do, etc. but if the city can’t even hold onto the Earthquakes, how are they supposed to get a new soccer team let alone a baseball team? With the current leadership, I am skeptical. The city is already in the hole with the new city hall – can we just convert that into a baseball or soccer stadium?
Sj Downtowner, #48: I agree with you that the current Spartan Stadium is a great place to watch a game, soccer as well as football. (The same was true of S.F.‘s Cow Palace for hockey, unless paradoxically you had a front row seat.) Unfortunately, the modern economics of sport require different sorts of venues than those built in the 1930s. And Spartan Stadium was never a first-class facility even in its hey-day.
I’m also skeptical whether our civic leaders can get something done. It will require vision and leadership and creativity—and potentially partnership among various local governmental entities, like the City, the County, and SJSU—which has been in appallingly short supply lately. But I believe a soccer/football stadium can be done without raiding the city’s general fund as happened with the ill-conceived Grand Prix subsidy.
Bud, re # 47, the bottom line is, RHV was there before any of the homes or businesses that have encroached upon it were. People made conscious decisions to build and/or move there, knowing full well the airport was a neighbor. So now the airport that was there first should close because the late-comers don’t like it? It should close because idiotic civic leaders allowed a shopping center to replace the golf course that provided an excellent emergency landing option?
Just based on principle I will never support any effort to close RHV. It was there first. Those who came later need to deal with it.
#50
Being “there first” is not a valid argument in favor of keeping RHV open. It is simply a piece of historical trivia. Also, the “there first” statement is not completely true.
The Hillview airport was built in 1939. This was a small, 60 acre, airport with 1 runway between Tully and Cunningham. For whatever reason, the county supervisors in 1961 decided to get into the airport business and bought this airport from the Reid brothers. One neighborhood old-timer told me the Hillview airport was going out of business and somehow managed to get the county to purchase it. During the mid to late 1960s the county tripled the size of the Hillview airport, closed Cunningham Av, extended the runway to Ocala, built a second runway between Tully and Ocala, and renamed the airport to Reid-Hillview.
The problem with this is that most East San Jose neighborhoods near the airport were built during the 1950s, and were there before the current RHV airport was built. For example, the Ryan elementary school behind my house was built in the early 1950s, and my neighborhood was built in the mid-50s.
In so far as saying that the airport was “there first”, and anyone who moves near it after it was built has to “deal with it”, that is just stupid. If we did things based on being “there first” we would still be living in trees.
Times change. Society evolves. Things that used to be acceptable in the past become unacceptable. RHV, due its location in the middle of a residential neighborhood, and its tremendous negative economic, social, and environmental effect on society, has become an unacceptable burden on society, and it will be closed.
Don, I admire your passion for soccer. Good for you. It would take a lot of typing, though, to convince the masses that soccer is more of a big time outdoor sport in the US than baseball or football. The only reason some “major league” cities have multiple soccer franchises is because they’re a dime a dozen at this stage. Demographics may turn the tables on that at some point, but guess what Don—baseball is “America’s pastime” in spite of strikes and steriods, and that isn’t going to change any time soon. Going after soccer for a downtown stadium amounts to settling for 5th best. San Jose needs to STOP settling and start going after the brass ring.
Lew Wolff could be trying to call the bluff of the Giants with his Fremont proposal. With a ball park in Fremont, the Giants aren’t likely to gain many East Bay fans and they’ll lose a lot from San Jose. It’s more of a losing proposition for the Giants than if they let the A’s move to SJ. And if the Giants don’t budge then Wolff can execute his Fremont plan without any subsidizing. Downtown SJ loses a ball park, but the Giants will end up losing too, based on a geographically assenine rule that they insist on enforcing.
#42, that is an excellent idea! Let me just add to #40’s remarks and advise you won’t catch me at Eastridge even in broad daylight, and that once again, SJ’s looooong legacy of poor planning is evidenced by this shopping center having been built in the stupidest possible location, basically at the end of a runway. Yeah, we’ve had some real winners calling the shots in this town for way too many years.
RHV IS THE BIGGEST WASTE OF 180 ACRES OF LAND THAT THIS CITY HAS , ITS JUST A MAJOR ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN , AND FOR THAT MATTER SO IS MINETA ,WHO’S IDEA WAS IT TO BUILD HIGH RISE BUILDINGS IN THE APPROACH OF THE AIRPORT , AND I DONT HEAR ANY COMMENTS ABOUT COYOTE VALLEY , ? BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAS MAJOR PLANS TO DESTROY IT AS SOON AS THEY CAN ANOTHER MISMANAGED MESS , YOU BETTER BE REAL CAREFUL CHOOSING THE NEXT MAYOR OF THIS CITY ……………..
For safety purposes, let”s pull down Eastridge and put up a low density project for all the public to use. Like maybe a park, no even better a golf course. Now there is a fresh idea. Oh, you say what was there before?
Lets pick up the Chargers since San Diego can’t afford a new stadium for them..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12425556/
Why think small folks?
SJ A’s
SJ Earthquakes
SJ Supersonics
SJ Chargers
If we try were bound to get one of ‘em!!
When are we going to have a Four Seasons or a Ritz-Carlton Hotel? Oops, I forgot. They are only for big time cities.
Single Gal, I wish you well in your quest to attract an MLB team to San Jose. Unfortunately, I believe you will fail, especially if public financing of a stadium is involved.
IMO, anyone who seriously advocates public financing for a professional sports facility is totally irresponsible and cares little about his fellow citizens to boot. To begin with, a review of cities that’ve built these white elephants in the recent past shows little if no overall increase in tax revenues—certainly not enough to justify the long-term debt burden. As has been noted, it may very well be that restaurant and bar receipts increase around the ball park, but this generally means that the money won’t get spent at another such establishment. Further, with the exception of rabid fans, I’ve not noticed any great surge in civic pride or quality of life in cities such as Pittsburgn, Detroit and San Diego. San Diego is in fact on the verge of bankruptcy and the other cities are suffering as well. Meanwhile, the salaries of MLB players average $2.5 million and franchise values continue to climb.
More on irresponsibility. I don’t care how much of a fan you are or how much money you have. Supporting public financing of a private enterprise essentially means that you favor taking money out of the pockets of your most vulnerable fellow citizens to benefit those who are better off. You know, those people who will pay the taxes to subsidize the millionaires but then won’t even be able to afford to take their kids to see the games. Hell, even those of us who could afford it wouldn’t be able to get a ticket because of all the fat cats who’d come out of the woodwork to be fashionable. Tax monies should be spent to benefit all citizens. Not just the wealthy. Not just the well-connected. All citizens. And if you can’t show me where I, and folks of all, repeat, all income levels in this city will benefit, I don’t want to hear it. I voted against a stadium for the Giants and I’d gladly do it again. Last I looked, neither Magowan nor Wolff needs my assistance.
Another poster has already done a fine job of pointing out the difference between private enterprise and public venues such as museums, libraries and parks. I gladly pay taxes for such things. They benefit all citizens and they do not cost an arm-and-a-leg. Please, stadium advocates, don’t insult peoples’ intelligence.
My wife and I moved to San Jose from the eastern U.S. sixteen years ago after I was recruited for a job, with my daughter remaining behind in college. Although I have to admit that my personal quality of life hasn’t been all that bad, I also have to note that I’m older and have always made decent money. After my daughter graduated, she joined us here in San Jose. She moved as soon as possible, first to San Mateo and then to Alameda. Neither she nor her friends will spend a nickel in San Jose. They are quite frankly apprehensive about being downtown at night; they share the previously expressed sentiments about the element to be found there, especially on the weekends.
ISTM our bad luck was that our tenure here coincided with the Hammer and Gonzales regimes. What passes for government here is a joke. In fact, some of the shenanigans engaged in by Ron Gonzales should have resulted in removal from office at a minimum and possibly jail. The reality is that San Jose is run by a political machine, but the citizenry doesn’t seem to care. If enough people cared, the Redevelopment Agency wouldn’t have been able to shovel unprecedented amounts of money into the pockets of already wealthy private citizens. Meanwhile, essential city services suffer.
San Jose is a classic boom town, enamored of wealth and privilege, but with no real neighborhoods, no real culture, no real identity. One thing I’ve been struck with during my return to California—born and raised in L.A.—is the number of wannabes. Wannabe L.A., wannabe San Francisco, wannable anything but what they are. It’s also my sense that San Jose will never be able to attract an MLB team if for no other reason than the dysfunctional political leadership, which seldom seems to get things right. I still recall the picture of Mayor Ron in spring training 2005 proudly displaying his misspelled sign proclaiming San Jose to be a major league city.
I think going for the Sonics would work for San Jose. To begin with, a very nice venue is already available. Then there is the reality that in the hierarchy of American sports, basketball, like hockey, while still “major league,” is actually in the second tier, far below football and baseball. And second tier seems to fit just right.
Soccer? Don’t make me laugh. No way, no how. Not in the U.S. I don’t care if the rest of the world loves it. We don’t. Don’t even think of spending tax dollars.
As a former resident of San Jose (for about 40 years), I have seen the city go through numerous struggles with itself regarding things like sports venues, downtown redevelopment, baseball, soccer, hockey, mayors…and the list is practically endless.
Major league baseball is not likely to be seen in downtown San Jose during any of our lifetimes. Not going to happen. Too bad, but let’s be honest, San Jose has blown their chances more than once.
Contrary to what some have posted, soccer is a relevant sport in the US. I don’t know how people manage to make the jump from having a professional team to the argument that soccer won’t ever surpass football and baseball. No one said it would, at least not in this discussion. However, it can be said that a 25,000 seat, outdoor venue COULD be a valuable asset to the city. Not only for MLS, but for international soccer, international rugby, possibly a suitable alternative for San Jose State football (should it actually survive) and for concerts. There is no secret as to “why” the new soccer stadiums being built around the country include stages at one end.
Of course, the alternative is the fairgrounds. I doubt the city would be supportive of that effort. Even though the city probably would not build such a facility, they most assuredly would oppose one being built at the fairgrounds….sort of “if I can’t have one, neither can you”. San Jose’s biggest obstacle is usually San Jose.